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Old 08-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #1
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I almost quit JUDDD

But I don't want to. So I come to my budds looking for ideas, suggestions.
I've been juddding for over 6 months. Maintaining more than half of that. In the beginning I had tons of energy. I would wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and sleep like a baby other times. Well now it's EVERY night after a dd I wake up at 2:00 or even earlier and never go back to sleep. So maybe 6 hours at the most. On the nights after an UD I sleep about 8 hours. My energy is fine during the day so that's not an issue but I've been having mood swings more and more and this is what happens to me when I don't get enough sleep. I love 'juddd. I love maintaining my wl but I can't be moody like this all the time and I really believe we need good sleep!
I eat a filling dinner on DDs so I'm not hungry when I wake up. For a while I thought I was over-exercising so I've slowed down a little. I'm not sure what else to try. Any suggestions?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:04 PM   #2
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I just wanted to add that I have cut back my caffine quite a bit. I have been having some coconut oil through the day. Would that effect my sleep?
I'm also wondering if I should have my thyroid checked again. I did have my rx changed a few months ago but can that even make you NOT sleep?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #3
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Well, I sure don't want to lose you - you're my exercise pal!

The reason I would wonder if it particularly has to do with JUDDD is that is wasn't like this for you until more recently. Of course, if you are documenting that it's happening specifically after DDs, that's significant.

No idea of your age, but beyond thyroid also consider the female hormones. I just chatted with a Gyn dr about which of a woman's female hormones affect sleep and his opinion is that as progesterone and/or estrogen levels go down at perimenopause it can negatively affect sleep. So it might be worth blood tests for those too, depending upon your age.

Also, of course, melatonin levels can be sub-par for anyone, anytime. I read recently that the B vitamins are good for keeping melatonin up.

I remember reading that we need carbs for sleep - maybe a baked potato on DD evenings? Okay, now I'm reaching! All best wishes to you as you figure this out.
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Last edited by Whitlin'; 08-04-2012 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:35 PM   #4
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Just curious if you have ever tried Theanine Serene w/ Relora? I can't believe how much better I sleep.

I agree with Whitlin about peri-meno and hormones. It is very hard on the sleep cycle when your hormones are unbalanced.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #5
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No big expert here but I remember reading about several people in whom coconut oil caused insomnia. I'm not sure if it was eating it too late at night or what? I assume it could rev your metabolism in a way that was not condusive to sleep since its such an easily digested energy. Try dropping it for a week or having it first thing in the morning and see if that makes things better.

Last edited by brewstate; 08-04-2012 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:04 PM   #6
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You all are the best. Thank you so much for responding.

Whitlin-the reason I was wondering if it's 'juddd related is because of the dds. If my body is stressed from fasting or something. I felt so good in the beginning! I'm 38. Let me add that I just had the most miserable pms last week. My emotions were all over the place! So I am wondering if the sleep isn't hormone related. I also wonder if fasting effects your hormones?

Sunday-I haven't heard of that. I'll look into it. Where do you find it? I really am to the point to try about anything!

Brewstate-I think your right. I should try a week without co and see if it makes a difference.
Thank goodness my gyno appt is later this month. Maybe she can help me with this.
Thanks again!
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:06 PM   #7
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Whitlin- thanks for mentioning vitamin B. I didn't know that about the melatonin. I ran out about a month ago and haven't bought more. Now I will.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #8
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Of course.. we are all just stabbing in the dark here with our guesses, but I'll add a couple of thoughts here as well. First of all, if it has anything to do with CO consumption, I believe it will take more than just the single week to show you truly and dependably it that is the cause. I would also suggest, before you cut it out completely if you don't want to try that, that you consume it in the early part of the morning so that you can have utilized it before nighttime arrives again.

I do agree with the possibility of this sleep disturbance being related to hormone levels, and certainly if you have been dependent on melatonin in the past (not refilled your supply for the last month) perhaps you are a bit deficient in that department without the pill supplementation.

I actually doubt the cause of this is JUDDD, per sae, but perhaps something that shows itself as more pronounced without the weight of a full day's meals in your body.

May I ask whether you eat at low carb levels, or whether you include quite a bit of carbohydrate in your DD meals?
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:49 PM   #9
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Thanks Pat. I'll keep the co to the mornings with my coffee for now.
I do eat low carb. Do you think that would effect sleep?
I've never taken melatonin. This really is the first time in my life that I've had this issue with my sleep.
How about thyroid? If my levels are still off do you think that can effect your sleep?
Thank you so much for your thoughts.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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Hi Janette,

I found L-Theanine Serene on Amazon, but any health or whole foods will probably have it. I discovered it while trying to help my son who is in school fulltime. He was having horrible insomnia and I felt like stress could have been the cause. The minute he started taking it he noticed immediate relief. It doesn't make you sleepy either. I take the Source Naturals brand, it works as a calming supplement and it has Relora in it. I am in love with the stuff!

From the website...


Contains the amino acids L-theanine, to support relaxing brain wave activity
Contains taurine to ease tension, as well as the calming neurotransmitter GABA
Features magnesium to support muscle and nerve relaxation
Contains calming holy basil leaf extract and Relora® to gently soothe away the tension in your body
2 tablets daily, or as recommended by your health care professional

L-theanine (also known as just theanine) is an amino acid found in tea, more specifically – green tea. Even though green tea has stimulatory effects, due to caffeine… the amino acid L-Theanine causes a contradictory CALMING effect.

Research on human volunteers has demonstrated that L-theanine may create a sense of relaxation in approximately 30-40 minutes after ingestion (at 1000 mgs) via at least two different mechanisms. First, this amino acid directly stimulates the production of alpha brain waves, creating a state of deep relaxation and mental alertness similar to what is achieved through meditation. Second, L-theanine is involved in the formation of the inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma amino butyric acid (GABA).

GABA influences the levels of two other neurotransmitters, dopamine and serotonin, producing the key relaxation effect.
Other Benefits …

L-theanine has an effect on the release or reduction of neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, resulting in improved memory and learning ability. L-theanine may also influence emotions due to its effects on the increased release of dopamine. L-theanine reduces brain serotonin concentration by either curtailing serotonin synthesis or increasing degradation in the brain.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #11
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Also, I want to mention that it doesn't make you feel drugged or sleepy during the day. It just helps to keep you calm and I need all of the calm I can get.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:18 PM   #12
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Sunday-that sounds wonderful. It would be nice to feel calm! I'm going to look for that. Thank you so much.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:18 PM   #13
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Janette there are just sooooo many factors that can affect sleep--our bodies and hearts are complicated little suckers! A couple of things I learned helping my significant other who's a chronic insomniac--magnesium is a pretty well documented sleep aid, and apparently most of us are sorely lacking in dietary magnesium and don't get enough. Also, do you take Vitamin D? if levels of that aren't correct (too high, too low, taken in the evening instead of morning) that can also very much affect sleep. And last but certainly not least, if there's anything preying on your mind, it can of course disturb sleep...It seems very likely that thyroid dosage that isn't quite right could also massively impact your sleep. Hormones--can't live with 'em, can't stay on the planet without 'em!
wishing you 8 hours of deep, restful oblivion,
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:24 PM   #14
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Thanks Patty! You've given me much to think about. I definatly will have my thyroid re-checked and look into Magnesium and vit D. I've never taken either.
Today was an ud so there's more chance I'll sleep good. We'll see.
Thanks again.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #15
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OK, Jbinme, I know exactly what you are talking about. Six months with JUDDD (a little more), Maintenance, DD's are no-sleep nights, wake up 1:30-2:00 am, can't get back to sleep. Did I miss anything?

Melatonin helps a little. I take one tablet before I go to bed every night. Then, on DD's I take one if/when I need to get up and go to the bathroom. Sometimes that helps, but more often, not. It's a miserable feeling to be wide awake at 2:00, knowing you will be needing to get up and be alert in a few more hours.

IMO, it's definitely related to the DD's. I don't know why, but it's been happening too long for it to be a coincidence. If I save something to eat JUST before I go to bed, I can sometimes (but not always) get around it. I wish I could tell you something helpful, instead of just saying "I know what you mean."
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:48 PM   #16
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Try having CO in the morning only.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:01 PM   #17
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I have been actively on JUDDD since July 2012 (Newbie) and I have noticed this as well. I wake up early most down days and can't get back to sleep. I just try to catch up on sleep on my up days. I have plenty of energy on both days but I get tired after eating a large meal on up days.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:54 AM   #18
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I have had this problem, too, and I found that I *have* to eat breakfast.
And it has to be a high-protein, low/no-carb breakfast...no pancakes!

I keep forgetting about that! Because I love skipping breakfast, having a light lunch, and saving my calories for dinner.

Have you heard about "leptin plans", like "Mastering Leptin" or "Leptin Reset"?

According to some of these leptin experts, eating breakfast sets off a cascade of hormone reactions that will help correct your circadian rhythm.

Cortisol should be a bit high in the morning (it helps to wake us up) and low in the evening. While it is high, our melatonin levels are low, and vice versa. If cortisol remains too high during (and too late into) the day the day, there isn't enough time to get the melatonin to the right levels for restful sleep.

mykidsteacher has recently been discussing that she was advised not to skip breakfast or fast too long as it can stress the adrenals.

Of course there are a lot of people who do well or even better by skipping breakfast, but looking into that may be helpful for your insomnia.

Speaking of which...yes, it it almost 5am and I haven't gotten to bed yet! I just got home from a concert, though!
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:36 AM   #19
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3:30. Wide-awake! I've an been and early to bed/early to rise person my whole life but this is a bit extreme.
It's good to to hear from others that this is happening too. Not glad it's happening to you but glad to know that it 'might' have to do with our woe. So we can try to find a solution. That last thing I want to do is stop 'juddd. Thinking about it almost causes me to have anxiety!
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:43 AM   #20
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Ghatkness-sorry to hear this is happening to you too. It's so annoying! Are you doing LC? So you wouldn't say that taking melatonin is a solution? Maybe a bandaid?

Jem51-thank you. I'm going to try that.

Ilastrait-me too. That's what I've been doing up to this point. Trying to make up for it on UDs!
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:59 AM   #21
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Thanks piratejenny! I've just read a little about the leptin reset. Like you, I way prefer not eating breakfast on DDs! When you have had the high protein breakfast on dds, did you notice a difference? Do you think that it's something that you have to do over a long period of time? Or if I eat breakfast this morning, I'll sleep good tonight? Sorry for so many questions!

It almost feels like when I wake up I'm excited for something. Cortisol?

Another thing that happens is if I don't go to sleep close to the time I'm used to, I might never fall asleep. Yes I've had a few nights of never sleeping! Next week will probably be torture while we are visiting dh family. They are a bunch of night owls!

I hope you had a great time at the concert!
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:06 AM   #22
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I have the odd wakeful night, last night was one, and I understand how distressing this must be.

I agree with all the other suggestions and the only thing I have to add is this. I had sleep problems when I went through the menopause and one of the suggestions made to me that really helped was to use an eye mask at night.

There is so much light pollution around us. Just the little LCD lights from alarm clocks or radios are invasive. I do know that is you choose to take Melatonin it is recommended that you quickly move to darkness after taking it so that it can work well.

Sounds simple, but it certainly worked for me especially in the summer. It also stops you doing those constant time checks if you do wake up. Just not knowing the time can stop you getting up tight and being more wakeful.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:16 AM   #23
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Thanks Cindy. I needed the hugs
it's so weird because I go to sleep when it's still light outside in the summer. And as soon as it's dark in the winter I am dragging!
The only clock in my room is on my phone and I TRY not to look at it
one thing I might have to think about are earplugs. I hear every noise. That scares me I won't hear my girls if they wake up though.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:33 AM   #24
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Thanks Cindy. I needed the hugs
it's so weird because I go to sleep when it's still light outside in the summer. And as soon as it's dark in the winter I am dragging!
The only clock in my room is on my phone and I TRY not to look at it
one thing I might have to think about are earplugs. I hear every noise. That scares me I won't hear my girls if they wake up though.
First, for not being able to sleep.
I go to sleep easily BUT I am a light sleeper. There is an oilfield road next to our house and those trucks rumble across that cattle guard at all hours and wake me up. SOOOOOOOO I started sleeping with earplugs. I sleep like a log BUT I can still hear things if I need to. Last night DH came in and woke me up by asking me a question (seems DS had forgotten the code to get into his truck) and I heard him and remember answering and going right back to sleep. I guess the ear plugs filter out the most annoying noises. I use the ones from Wal-Mart for shooting.

And light wakes me up so I am with Cindy on that one too.

When I did LC I could not sleep a lot of nights. Those seemed to be the ones where the scale would be down the next morning. Guess tossing and turning was good exercise for weight loss.

Hope you find a solution and keep on JUDDD'ing.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:38 AM   #25
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Both worth a try. I think most people who use ear plugs are still 'aware'. My BIL uses them.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:49 AM   #26
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Thanks Adi. Sorry you have to sleep with all that rumbling noise! My dh is such a sweetheart. He sleeps on the couch a couple nights every now and then so his snoring (sounds like a rumbling truck) doesn't keep me up. Maybe he wouldn't have to do that if I use the earplugs!
I am wondering if the low carb isn't contributing to this too. Don't want to give up either so I'll try everything else!
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:08 AM   #27
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My DH wakes at 2-3 often, and he is not doing any kind of diet. However, he has found that a small protein/carb balanced snack puts him right back to sleep. He will have a cracker with some cheese or a piece of ham and he can fall back to sleep in 5-10 minutes. Without a snack he will toss and turn all night. He is hypglycemic so I wonder if it has to do with blood sugars.

Me, I wake up between 3-4 every day and just get up to work! If I can sleep till 5:30 like I did this morning it is a huge victory!
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:00 AM   #28
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Could you be depressed? Early morning waking can be a sign of depression?
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:42 AM   #29
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When you have had the high protein breakfast on dds, did you notice a difference? Do you think that it's something that you have to do over a long period of time? Or if I eat breakfast this morning, I'll sleep good tonight?

It almost feels like when I wake up I'm excited for something. Cortisol?

I hope you had a great time at the concert!
I was too beat to find this for you last night, but, yes, if I have breakfast I will sleep better that night. It may get better over the next few days, but for me it has worked right away.
The "breakfast for better sleep" experiment

I think I'm going to have a big protein breakfast very soon!
I need to get back on a normal sleep pattern.

That excited feeling...I've never heard about cortisol having an effect on emotions. I just Googled it & there's not much about emotions,
although it's supposed to help brain function & energy levels in the short term.
For me, "excited" means high serotonin. Could also mean higher levels of dopamine & norepinephrine (the "feel-good" neurotransmitters). Could just be one of the many good side-effects of JUDDD. Or, have you added any carbs back into your diet? Low-carb can lead to lethargy & depression for many people (I get the impression that it's especially true for women), and some carbs (a reasonable amount of the right kind!) seems to make them feel much happier.

I did have a great time at the concert! Thank you!!!
I took DS and 3 of his friends, all about 16-18 years old, and I was afraid I would have trouble with them trying to drink or otherwise misbehave. But they were VERY respectful & grateful and they had an enormously good time! I was also afraid I wouldn't enjoy the music, but the band (System of a Down) was fantastic. It was also very moving to hear 10,000 people singing at the same time, and watch them bouncing up & down in unison. I just felt like I was floating in a sea of happiness...I loved it...

Last edited by piratejenny; 08-05-2012 at 11:35 AM.. Reason: punctuation
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:55 AM   #30
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I am not sure if this will help, but what if you try to do just two DD a week kind of like Eat Stop Eat. With ESE you pick two days a week where you do a 24 hour fast. I am sure you have heard of it, but just in case you haven't I will give an example. Let's say your last meal the night before was at 6pm, the next day you would not eat until 6pm which would give you a 24 hour fast. That way you have a full stomach before bed which may help you sleep. You could still count your calories like JUDDD. You can pick whatever days work for you. That is what is so great about this WOE you can work it to fit you Hope something here helped. Blessings, Love, Peace, and Joy to you
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