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Old 07-31-2012, 11:00 AM   #1
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Warning: whiney post!

Started JUDDD July 22nd! Shooting for 500/1750

CAME to JUDDD having lost about 15 lbs since February, with a slight surge right before JUDDD, thanks to Dukan.

But after 10 days, I see NOTHING HAPPENING! Here's what I've been eating, and very healthy low carb foods at that:

7/22 - 174.5 UD CAL: 1613
7/23 - ????? DD CAL: 446 (wasn't really hard at all!)
7/24 - ????? UD CAL: 972 (raging headache all day: too full from Metamucil to eat more)
7/25 - 173.3 DD CAL: 775 (SO hungry due to previous low UD)
7/26 - 173.8 UD CAL: 1606
7/27 - 174.4 DD CAL: 778 (I can't seem to make it down to 500; maybe because UD's are low?)
7/28 - 173.8 UD CAL: 1524 (Can't seem to make it UP to 1750 calories, either!)
7/29 - 174.1 DD CAL: 636 (see thread about my profession +DD; can't do 500)
7/30 - 173.2 UD CAL: 1292 (again, can't hit 1750 for the life of me)
7/31 - 174.1 DD CAL: (the scale is NOT MOVING! No real weight loss in 9 days GRRRR)

WHEN DOES THIS START WORKING?!!!! Is this normal? As some of you know, I will be trying HCG around Sept 1, but at this point, I'm considering spending the next month going back to Dukan.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:02 AM   #2
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Just a quick view, 4 of your 5 up days haven't been at your 1750 level. Some were off by as much as 300-700 calories. I know one doesn't have to eat all of them, but I do and lose much better when I do.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:06 AM   #3
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Just wanted to add that I AM eating to satiety on UD's, just as Dr. Johnson advises (he doesn't say anything about counting calories to make sure you're getting "normal.") On those days, if I ate more (with the appetite I've had), I would be stuffing myself, and that's not healthy mentally or physically.

Cross-posted with zipp!
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:24 AM   #4
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I'm so sorry this has been frustrating ... I would be frustrated too! I'm sure someone with more experience with JUDDD will come along soon, but I seem to remember reading that the calorie difference between down days and up days is pretty important in activating the SIRT gene? I wonder if this could be a factor?
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:33 AM   #5
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Well, I was reading in the slow losers thread about someone named Leo-something who only lost with UD's around 1000 because her metabolism was so slow (and confirmed by a doctor). I suspect that mine is incredibly slow as well, because it take 3x the normal amount of time for meds (like painkillers) to kick in.

I am still in the WL percentages on my DD's, and I am TRYING to get closer to 500, but it's just very hard for me so far (for reasons discussed in another thread).

Maybe I can work my way down, and up... but I just won't ever stuff myself. I think that's one of the reasons we're overweight. Thin people don't eat to that point.

But even if you dismiss the SIRT stuff and just average out my calories, one would think I'd easily be at enough of a deficit to lose!

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:41 AM   #6
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Well, you're definitely doing a *calorie cycling* program, but it still isn't quite a JUDDD plan. So I can't really comment on what you are doing, but I will offer a couple of my thoughts about what I see.

First of all, the daily calories you have posted above only average 1071 calories per day. At that very low level, many/most of us experience the strange phenomena of our bodies holding on to its fuel stores for dear life. At your calorie numbers, for a grown woman you are pretty much signaling your brain that you are out there in a harsh world and having a hard time finding enough to eat. And your brain is slowing your metabolic burn rate down to help you conserve what fat stores you have, in order to help you survive this time of famine and hardship.

So just based on your calorie numbers alone, I wouldn't expect much in the way of weight loss to happen. For every one who can lose at that very low average number, I can show you several others who really stall out and don't lose.

Secondly, I don't remember that I have seen your menu. I don't know what foods you are including in your meals, and I don't know what percentages of fat & protein, AND CARBOHYDRATE foods you are including in your diet now. But here is another interesting little item, and I've been watching it happen for nearly the two years I've been here:

One thing is that some folks come here from doing previous very low carb, and when they start JUDDDing, they relax and really start including the carbs in their diet.. those that were previously forbidden foods, and they may be losing fat based on their calorie consumption, but for the first week or 10 days they are also *carbing up* and regaining that lost water weight that they had been without previously, and so the scale can't show the fat lost because it also has to weigh in the water weight gain. The result for awhile is often not seeing much loss, even though the dieter has truly lost some body fat after all.

The second thing that I see happen is that very often those who hold to pretty strict low carb on JUDDD, often have much poorer weight loss happening for them than those who include far more carbs again on JUDDD. For some, it appears as though their bodies have finally become so starved for carbs that their brain believes they have encountered a famine situation, even though they are truly getting enough calories in the form of the fat and protein in their diets. But without the higher, rather than continued low level, of carbs, their weight loss remains sluggish. When they start eating at a higher carb level, their weight loss often takes off at a decent rate. This actually happens far more often than you would suspect, but I don't really know what science is behind this. (And I'm not suggesting the additions of ice cream or fudge cake.. only that those who add back in carbs at a goodly higher level seem to stimulate weight loss on the JUDDD plan.)

Did you actually figure your calorie numbers as per the JUDDD Calorie Calculator? I ask only because, despite what the book says in a place or two, the actual experience of many, many JUDDD followers has shown overall that most lose more reliably and at a better rate of loss if they keep their UD calorie numbers pretty close to what is labeled for us as our *Normal* calories on that calculator. One part of the book even goes on to tell us that on our Up Days, we will eat our *Normal* calories, etc.

When there is a wide spread between our Up Day and our Down Day calories, our body is sort of operating like a piston, pounding up and down between those two amounts, which really seems to best stimulate our metabolisms to operate at a better burn rate! The way we eat on this plan is stimulating with the filling and feeding and nourishing on the one day and allowing the system to rest from digestion and turn to cleaning up the little cellular mis-cues that occur in us on our Down Days.

I can only tell you that the JUDDD plan almost always eventually works wonderfully for those who truly follow it.

I believe as the days pass and you are able to adapt and fit more comfortably *in sync* with the calorie levels given for you, the more your body will shed weight and experience much healing within itself.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:54 AM   #7
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SoHappy, yes, I used the JUDDD calculator! Several times to check it.

As for what I eat, I believe I eat like many of you who've been successful. I focus on the low glycemic foods on both DD's and UD's: lean proteins, veggies, veggies, veggies with only the rarest higher glycemic ones. I eat low to non fat dairy, but not too much of it. I hardly ever eat fruit. Healthy fats. I use laughing cow light cheese in lots of dishes. I don't eat red meat. I use no-sugar or zero-sugar-added types of condiments and sauces. Getting a picture?

Lots of Shirataki noodles!!!!

High glycemic foods spike my triglicerides and tend to give me more migraines. They just don't agree with me, and make me crave sugar and other things I don't want.

Pretty much the same for my UD's, although I relax a bit with little bites of carbs I wouldn't normally have, a thin slice of high grain bread, maybe some black beans or a small half of a sweet potato, etc. but in very limited amounts. But even on UD's I am still "prone" to eating low glycemic foods. It's just how I eat, and not something I really want to change.

Prior to my recent Dukan surge and coming to JUDDD, I was keeping calories to under 1200 - 1400 for a very long time, and losing frustrating slowly. But I guess I was/am used to that amount, and hence my UD's have been hard. I do understand the theory of JUDDD, and I'm trying. But as you can understand, I'm very leery of getting into a habit of allowing myself to feel stuffed.

And I have read on other threads that my calorie difference is enough to make this work - so confusing!

Sigh.

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Well, I was reading in the slow losers thread about someone named Leo-something who only lost with UD's around 1000 because her metabolism was so slow (and confirmed by a doctor). I suspect that mine is incredibly slow as well, because it take 3x the normal amount of time for meds (like painkillers) to kick in.

I am still in the WL percentages on my DD's, and I am TRYING to get closer to 500, but it's just very hard for me so far (for reasons discussed in another thread).

Maybe I can work my way down, and up... but I just won't ever stuff myself. I think that's one of the reasons we're overweight. Thin people don't eat to that point.

But even if you dismiss the SIRT stuff and just average out my calories, one would think I'd easily be at enough of a deficit to lose!
Another thought: It looks like yesterday was an UP day. It's probably best not to judge your loss by your weight after an up day. If you go by your yesterday's weight (after a down day), it looks like you lost 1.3 pounds in 8 days. That IS a loss, although I'm with you, I would expect more. I do agree with Pat that, because of your work situation making low DDs really difficult and your low appetite on up days, you haven't quite gotten the JUDDD effect yet (although I know you've been trying to get there!). I'm a bit worried that on your last UP day you felt stuffed at less than 1300 calories. I sense that your metabolism might be suffering, but I *think* JUDDD could fix it! (based on what others have said ... check out this thread for example: IT’S ALL TRUE!!!! (Long)).

Hoping this helps & rooting for you!
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:02 PM   #9
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I hope you're right, Chris, but looking at other days, and my past loss, I think I am one who typically goes down after an UD (in part, because I, achem, have a bigger potty.)

Maybe tomorrow will be the day it all clicks in!

For the record, I am 5'4" (and change) and 55. The calculator says 349/1746 at my current weight.

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:05 PM   #10
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I wonder if maybe Dukan was a bit stressful for your body, and since IF/JUDDD is very healing, your body is doing some invisible repair?

That's what I like to visualize, anyway, when I'm not losing scale weight...my liver & pancreas & lungs getting healthier....

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Old 07-31-2012, 12:06 PM   #11
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I hear your frustration and although I'm really stuck right now due to my recent surgery, my advice might not count. This is my second go 'round with JUDDD and I wasn't (and still not losing) like I did the first time. This time around, it was suggested to me to eat up to my UD calories, or make sure I was. I calculated and found I was a few hundred calories below. Once I ate up to them (1930), I began losing. That was before aforementioned surgery.

Trying eating up to your full UD calories for a week and see what happens. What have you got to lose????
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:09 PM   #12
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I wonder if maybe Dukan was a bit stressful for your body, and since IF/JUDDD is very healing, your body is doing some invisible repair?

That's what I like to visualize, anyway, when I'm not losing scale weight...my liver & pancreas & lungs getting healthier....

Thanks, PJ. Dukan was 10-ish days, and I lost something around 5 lbs (although I had gained a couple right before). IF that's stress, that is the kind of stress I MISS!

And I forgot to mention: measurements haven't budged either!!!

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:25 PM   #13
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For the record, I am 5'4" (and change) and 55. The calculator says 349/1746 at my current weight.
Oh! This helps! I think the down day calories you've been doing most days look like they are in the 45% weight loss/maintenance mode. So a 1.3 loss now (I see a downward overall trend even with the bouncing) sounds pretty darn good! It's nearly 1% of your body weight, which I've heard of as a good goal for the week. (although I agree that it is worth an experiment to try to eat your up day calories for a week as well).

I don't know if this works with your lifestyle, but given that work makes DDs so challenging, would you be able to increase exercise? By doing moderate exercise 3-5 days a week (maybe on up days?) You could have the approx. 700-800 calories that are comfortable for you for work on down days and lose faster.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:27 PM   #14
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So, I guess most of you lost more in your first 10 days or so on JUDDD? The question is how much more?
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:29 PM   #15
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lowcarbchris, I don't agree that there's a downward trend! I see pretty much no trend. I weigh virtually what I did when I started.

And I know 346 is less than 500. But I can barely manage 500 and get my work done. And many of you say Dr. J recommends starting at 500, so that is what I have TRIED to do.

But still, I don't see a downward trend!!!

I walk vigorously on UD's for up to 45 minutes, on DD's (thus far) I walk a little. I will try to do more on UD's - that's a good idea.

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:34 PM   #16
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Trying eating up to your full UD calories for a week and see what happens. What have you got to lose????

Her very hard-earned ability to eat only to satiety, and not feel stuffed!!!

This is a very common concern when starting JUDDD
--I feel ya, buttah!!!

(On tablet, can't type, sorry if this sounds abrupt.)
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:53 PM   #17
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lowcarbchris, I don't agree that there's a downward trend! I see pretty much no trend. I weigh virtually what I did when I started.

And I know 346 is less than 500. But I can barely manage 500 and get my work done. And many of you say Dr. J recommends starting at 500, so that is what I have TRIED to do.

But still, I don't see a downward trend!!!

I walk vigorously on UD's for up to 45 minutes, on DD's (thus far) I walk a little. I will try to do more on UD's - that's a good idea.
I guess my way of thinking (and your mileage may vary ) is that with all the bouncing on JUDDD you can get discouraged ... I'm looking at your 173.2 weight yesterday.

Last thought, and then I'm going to leave it to my more experienced JUDDD BUDDs ... if you are walking vigorously for up to 45 mins on your UDs and a little on DDs, wouldn't your normal calories under "moderate exercise 3-5 days" be 2249?

Last edited by calichris; 07-31-2012 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:00 PM   #18
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First of all, the daily calories you have posted above only average 1071 calories per day. At that very low level, many/most of us experience the strange phenomena of our bodies holding on to its fuel stores for dear life. At your calorie numbers, for a grown woman you are pretty much signaling your brain that you are out there in a harsh world and having a hard time finding enough to eat. And your brain is slowing your metabolic burn rate down to help you conserve what fat stores you have, in order to help you survive this time of famine and hardship.

True. BUT: my JUDDD calculator calories average out to 1047! Which is less than I'm averaging NOW! See what I mean? In that way, the JUDDD diet, following the calculator is just as much a "starvation" diet.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:09 PM   #19
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True. BUT: my JUDDD calculator calories average out to 1047! Which is less than I'm averaging NOW! See what I mean?
And yet over and over we have reports from JUDDDers who found that when they did the big JUDDD spread, the weight loss took off. We read their happy reports of being able to eat at an even higher average overall, but the spread seems to make the difference. About the same from day to day to day, and the metabolism comes to set itself at about that average number. Pound your DDs down and your UDs up, and metabolism often comes to reset itself at closer to that higher UD number. And that's a real fun thing to have happen for us!

You get to set your numbers where you want them, and get to eat at the calorie level you want to eat at. We all get to do whatever we want to do, however we want to do it, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that if you are able to master your Up Day / Down Day rotations at or close to the numbers given to you by the JUDDD Calculator, you might experience a pretty decent rate of weight loss.

And I know some of us gals are somewhat at a disadvantage when we stack ourselves up against some of our JUDDD sisters.. I'm another shorty at 5'-3" and an elder at 69 years old.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:32 PM   #20
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Yes it is the difference between the UD and the DD calories that triggers the losses.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:35 PM   #21
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Okay. Well on a positive note, I just made a big cabbage/shirataki peanut powder/chicken dish, a version of what someone posted in my other thread, and OMG I am full. And writing away (when I'm not procrasti-diet-nating here)! You were right about the bulk thing.

No more shakes and little itty bitty things on DD's.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
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And yet over and over we have reports from JUDDDers who found that when they did the big JUDDD spread, the weight loss took off. We read their happy reports of being able to eat at an even higher average overall, but the spread seems to make the difference. About the same from day to day to day, and the metabolism comes to set itself at about that average number. Pound your DDs down and your UDs up, and metabolism often comes to reset itself at closer to that higher UD number. And that's a real fun thing to have happen for us!

You get to set your numbers where you want them, and get to eat at the calorie level you want to eat at. We all get to do whatever we want to do, however we want to do it, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that if you are able to master your Up Day / Down Day rotations at or close to the numbers given to you by the JUDDD Calculator, you might experience a pretty decent rate of weight loss.

And I know some of us gals are somewhat at a disadvantage when we stack ourselves up against some of our JUDDD sisters.. I'm another shorty at 5'-3" and an elder at 69 years old.

I also firmly believe that you've got to have a good spread between your UD and DD numbers for this to work optimally. There are plenty of ways to eat good, healthy foods at a higher calorie level, without stuffing yourself, or eating past satiety. Add healthy fats, nuts, butter, CO, avocados, fattier cuts of meats, sauces, mayo. You don't have to eat unhealthy foods, or a truckload of vegetables and fruits to make this work. Save the lean proteins and low calorie vegetables for DDs. It really can work if you give it a fair shot.

I know it's hard to take the advice given, to trust what we have to say, but so many of us have been where you are, and are offering the best tips and advice we have. It almost takes a leap of faith to believe it can work, but for many, many of us who thought it would NOT work, it DID! And better and more consistently than anything else we've ever tried. I feel how resistant you are, and you are ultimately the one who has to decide if this can work for you. I know you want it to work. I want it to work for you as well.

It's only been a little over a week and you've gotten so frustrated and have questioned whether or not HCG will work better. That's always an option, but I always say that you have to give it your all for a minimum of a month, before you can really say whether or not it failed for you. Some of us come to JUDDD and need time to heal, especially coming from an "every day" low calorie plan, where we've made our metabolisms slow down. That's one of the beautiful things about JUDDD ~ the healing that happens to our "broken" metabolisms. Honestly, I've seen it time and again, and it's an amazing thing to witness.

Please be gentle with yourself, and give it some time. Try to get those calories up and take yourself out of stress response. Allow your body the time it needs to heal, and then reap the rewards. That's all I can offer, and I hope you take it the way it's intended, with all love and respect.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #23
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Okay. Well on a positive note, I just made a big cabbage/shirataki peanut powder/chicken dish, a version of what someone posted in my other thread, and OMG I am full. And writing away (when I'm not procrasti-diet-nating here)! You were right about the bulk thing.

No more shakes and little itty bitty things on DD's.
buttah.. we really DO want you to SUCCEED. It's just not always a plan that you truly get the grasp of right off the bat. It seems deceptively simple, and then it seems like there's a whole lot more to it than first meets the eye, and then it finally ends up being deceptively simple again.

I think you will gradually get into it, and most of us have had to be patient to get to that point too. I wish it was the kind of plan where a person just started dropping weight right off the bat, like going extremely low carb from a previous high carb life results in so much FAST water weight loss, and we're all real excited, thinking we're losing body fat, and then come to that stage where the water weight is jettisoned and we hit a brick wall and experience little more loss. Instead JUDDD sometimes/often takes some *getting into* before a person takes off. But it usually happens. Rooting for you!!!
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:47 PM   #24
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Um i also am going to venture out on a limb here, bare with me,, With the" Lots of Shirataki noodles!!!!" Part.. These from what i understand are zero calories for fililng you up...Now just a thought,, why not stop eaitng these, so you can put in more caloires?? Just an idea, if im off base, i am sorry.. hugs dear and i feel your frustration~
Unless you are using them for your DD.. thats ok then.. just trying to help here!

Last edited by sterlinggirl; 07-31-2012 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:50 PM   #25
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Sorry, I was confusing. I only eat Shirataki noodles on DD's!
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Sorry, I was confusing. I only eat Shirataki noodles on DD's!
no need to be sorry.. Hun we are all also frustrated that we cant do this for you~ We are all here trying to figure out what will work for you and your creative lifestyle, i did read your other post about needing to be fueled so you can write, i wish you all the best and i pray we find what will help you in the short term
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:01 PM   #27
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I have to agree with Pat (So Happy) here. (She has been here a long time and gives lots of great advice).

The problem is that while your calories average may be "correct" per se, you aren't getting the calorie spread that is necessary for JUDDD to work. You need to submit to the difference in calories between DDs and UDs. That means, you need to eat up to your calories on UDs. I think this will help you lose, but also help repair your sluggish metabolism. I find it quite strange that you are STARVING on DDs at 700-800 cals, but can't stuff yourself on a UD past 1300-1500. But, I think it has to do with a broken metabolism (at this point, until you give us more info).

I would get those calories in by adding some fats, as suggested above - nuts, oils, avocados - all can add lots of calories in relatively few bites. This might help you feel more satiated as you walk into a DD as well. I believe you are so hungry on DDs because you are not refuling properly on your UDs.

I also wanted to add that DDs do get easier - and this is coming from someone who STARVES on low cal days. Some are still difficult, but I actually coast pretty easily through most now. I still have dreams about eating copious amounts of food, but it is much better than it was 3 or 4 months ago.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:21 PM   #28
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Your whole post was great, Pat. I've snipped it for space to address the following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
And yet over and over we have reports from JUDDDers who found that when they did the big JUDDD spread, the weight loss took off.
Yep.

I've found I do much, much better when I eat as close as I can to my original starting UD numbers, even after losing more than 50 pounds since March 22. I see it reflected not only in the scale numbers but also how my clothes fit when I haven't been able to eat as much as I should for more than a couple days. I don't feel as well, either. I do a complete fast (water only) on almost all DDs, so the impact of the spread is maximized, but even eating my full allotment of DD calories, it's still a big difference.

My advice - worth exactly what you paid for it - is that it looks to me like you're not getting nearly enough fat. I don't know if you're willing to experiment with upping your fats or not. If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely up them on my UDs and eat as close as I could to the UD number.

After previewing my post, I see DD80 and I are in agreement with regard to fats.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:23 PM   #29
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First off,
For me keeping really low, and I mean really low DD numbers is more critical to my weight loss than anything I do on an UD. I'm probably below my UD numbers by a couple hundrend 3 out of 4 UDs, but on DDs I never exceed my 360 and aim for 1/2 this number. I think it is the spread that works for me. I can't stuff myself either. Never could and hope I never will. But that being said I may eat 1350 rather than 1700, but it was a spread of over a 1000 calories from my 300 DD. I make a point of having 1 UD a week where I try to get all the way up to my 1700+. It helps to go out to a restaunt that I really like.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:33 PM   #30
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I know you are all trying to help, and I love you for it!

So bear with me as I respond to a couple points.

My highest dd is 775, which I believe is still a legal loss percentage on my calculator. And I've only gone to the 600-700 range to curb my starvation (I can actually do 600-700 and work WITHOUT feeling starved), in part because on my thread about working on DD's and in many other places in this forum, it has been advised to use those extra calories if need be. Some even advised me to subtract from UDs, due to my higher DDs! It's frustrating (not anyone's fault, mind you) when the advice on my two big issues (work and slow results) is contradictory.

Second, the idea of waiting a month when I have been working at weight loss since March and even a couple years before that... And on an average of 1000ish calories a day.... I don't know what to say.

Again I know you guys are rooting for me. Hopefully a couple more days and I'll see some results. Typing on my phone, so I hope this is readable.

Re: fat. I have enough on all UD's, I think

Last edited by buttah; 07-31-2012 at 04:38 PM..
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