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Old 08-01-2012, 09:37 AM   #61
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kidsteacher, your DD diet is helpful and yes, we are very similar) , although I now know that I can't start with shakes. My body, or mind, doesn't matter, reads that as not eating, and those were my hardest days.

I enter everything I eat in an online tracker.
Having blood work done soon, but knowing it will include my typical lowish carb diet, then 10 days of Dukan (high protein, low fat, only low carb veggies + only every other day) and about 10 days of JUDDD (mostly low carb, but trying to eat fat, especially now), it's going to be a very mixed bag diagnostically.

Therefore, I think I will wait to try adding CO.

Meanwhile I just had two small slices of bacon, which I was craving. VERY rare for me. Maybe I really do need that fat!
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbchris View Post
JUDDD is a whole paradigm shift from other diets, isn't it? Eating our up day calories and perhaps formerly forbidden foods feels scary at first. It does take a change in mindset (especially coming fresh from other plans) to discover that it's ok to eat up to or close to our up day calories, and not be discouraged by the scale bouncing.

You may be just like Leo41, but it may be too early to know for sure. Leo made changes after the plan as written was not working, and Dr. Johnson's advice to Leo41 is a bit different than what he says in the book. Although you are absolutely right that he does say you don't have to eat all your up day calories, he also says, "You, too, may begin to think that the less you eat on your up days the better off you'll be, but again, it's a question of balance. You don't wan to slow down your metabolism and you also don't want to feel deprived every day -- that's nothing less than a prescription for noncompliance and, ultimately, diet failure."

I'm excited for you about the scale movement for you!
This is excellent! I can't tell you how long it took for me to discover the ease of eating higher without slowing losses! I started trying to add too many bad foods to get the higher calories and that was affecting me in other ways healthwise. Tried adding wine and unhealthy carbs. Then I backed off and just ate to sateity and watched very closely how I did with the scale. Everyone has to find what works for their own health.

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Old 08-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #63
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On the loss there buttah~
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #64
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Buttah,

If you are a salad lover, Kimberino has an amazing "homemade buttermilk ranch" dressing that makes me very happy and you can make it higher fat, by adding more mayo.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:47 PM   #65
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Understand about the shakes. I could never have done them in the beginning either. I needed food. After a couple months, I was fine fasting till lunch (and could NEVER have done so in the beginning). I still could fast, but my naturopath doesn't want me to since it's harder on the adrenals and we are working to heal my adrenal exhaustion.

When I could still eat eggs, I usually had an omelet with 1 whole egg, 2 egg whites, and some peppers and onions. You can get a big pan full of food for pretty low cal.

Good plan on holding off on the CO for a bit until you get things a bit more settled diet wise. Butter is a great fat too.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
But dear me, I'm now so SCARED to eat today, because I know my weight will start with a 3 or a 4 again tomorrow, especially after eating a piece of bread. Gotta break that mindset, don't I?
Yes'm, you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by genevievew View Post
Don't weight tomorrow buttah!!! Weigh next week after a DD so that you remain encouraged!
That's good advice, IMO. Try weighing only after DDs (the morning of your UD).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
It's pretty exciting.. there are more now who have lost more than 100 pounds on JUDDD, and some who won't be much longer. And even newbies who are just starting out but will, I am sure, add their names to the list. Wonderful, for sure!

As I said above (somewhere), we all get to do what we want here, so folks who choose not to eat up in the area of their calorie numbers on the Up Days, get to make that decision for themselves. For myself, my metabolism had got so crappy that it was extremely important for me to be healing and revving up my metabolic rate while I was losing the weight. I didn't want to finally reach goal and then have to live the rest of my life at so few calories, which I have been fortunate enough at age 69, not to have to do. I've been hypothyroid for decades of my life, and I think that has a slowing impact on metabolic rate as well as myriad other factors.

But also, since the ongoing low calorie level of Down Days has that slowing effect on metabolism, I felt it was doubly important for my Up Days to counter that effect on my burn rate!

Just saying, while it may not hold true for all, there are some folks who hold to quite low calories and then find they have become pretty much 'set' there.
That's been a real concern of mine and exactly why I use the same UD allotment as my starting calories. It may be that I'll eventually have to lower them but I'm not going to do it until I absolutely have to. My experience has also shown that when I miss that UD level by several hundred I just don't lose as well (nor feel as well).

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
kidsteacher, your DD diet is helpful and yes, we are very similar) , although I now know that I can't start with shakes. My body, or mind, doesn't matter, reads that as not eating, and those were my hardest days.

I enter everything I eat in an online tracker.
Having blood work done soon, but knowing it will include my typical lowish carb diet, then 10 days of Dukan (high protein, low fat, only low carb veggies + only every other day) and about 10 days of JUDDD (mostly low carb, but trying to eat fat, especially now), it's going to be a very mixed bag diagnostically.

Therefore, I think I will wait to try adding CO.

Meanwhile I just had two small slices of bacon, which I was craving. VERY rare for me. Maybe I really do need that fat!


I know that for me, whenever I eat more boneless skinless chicken breasts for a period of time (for convenience sake) versus my preferred skin-on, bone-in whole chicken (dark meat included) I don't lose nearly as well. Sometimes I really crave beef. I lose better when it's 80/20 or even a little fattier than I do when it's 93% lean. Fats really make a difference for me in how I lose and how I feel.

Wishing you all kinds of great success with JUDDD!
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:35 PM   #67
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Okay, well, this is a very different sort of UD for me so far. I'm enjoying some foods I normally stay completely clear of, A) in hopes of getting closer to my BMR calories and B) seeing if it better fuels my DD tomorrow, and C) trying to truly experience the "diet only every other day" aspect of JUDDD.

Peanut butter on a little piece of wheat toast and baconfor breakfast.
Chicken breast w/wing and skin plus a handful of fries for lunch.

I had planned to to treat myself to a protein style cheeseburger (no bun) for dinner, but I can already tell I'm having a salad w/protein for dinner. There's clearly only so much "letting go" I can do.

But maybe a pumpkin protein shake, Oizoid-style, for desert.

Probably should've waited until I had a bit more loss before going "crazy," but oh well.

Time for a vigorous walk, and back to writing.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:40 PM   #68
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It sounds like you had a happy day.

Don't be surprised if you are up in weight on the scale in the morning as so often we regain some of our lost water weight if we add a few carbs back in. JUDDD is almost famous for the great fluctuations we see on our scales.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:47 PM   #69
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Quote:
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It sounds like you had a happy day.

Don't be surprised if you are up in weight on the scale in the morning as so often we regain some of our lost water weight if we add a few carbs back in. JUDDD is almost famous for the great fluctuations we see on our scales.
Yes, I am prepared. And scared. But prepared. And a little scared.

And my day is only half way through (it's 2:45pm here). The rest of the day will be very clean, I can tell you that. Although there are still quite a few calories left.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:58 PM   #70
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You are doing great today! What kind of writer are you, that sounds so interesting! Have a great day!
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:02 PM   #71
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You are doing great today! What kind of writer are you, that sounds so interesting! Have a great day!
Thanks.

It's funny. I've shared openly about my diet, my period, my travel plans, my triglycerides and my poops. But I don't feel comfortable sharing more about my professional life.

Maybe one day when I'm skinnier, we all know each other better, and there's nothing left to tell you about my intestines.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:26 PM   #72
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Yes, I am prepared. And scared. But prepared. And a little scared.
Yeah... it's a lot like that.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:54 PM   #73
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Buttah, you are going to make it. Isn't this the greatest support group anywhere?

Enjoy your month learning about JUDDD and then your HCG experience.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:59 PM   #74
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Buttah, you are going to make it. Isn't this the greatest support group anywhere?

Enjoy your month learning about JUDDD and then your HCG experience.
It IS the best group! Clearly, I'd much rather chat with you all then finish what I'm writing.

Thankfully I have this program called "Freedom," where you tell it how long you want to be kept offline, and it makes it impossible for you to get on the internet without restarting the computer. Just enough of an inconvenience.

I think I'm setting it for a couple hours right now!
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #75
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Okay, guys. I need another round of encouragement, it seems.

I have had approximately 815 calories today. It is 6pm, and I'm probably going to turn in by 10pm, since I began my day at 6:30am. I am not in the slightest bit hungry - in fact, I feel the beginnings of my monthly abdominal bloat. So I can't imagine eating another 900 calories today if my life depended on it.

I fear this will be another UD that's not even close to my BMR calories (1700, rounded down).

Re-reading about leptin, hunger signals, and again, just refusing to "stuff" myself, or ever get comfortable with the idea of stuffing myself, is just not acceptable.

Granted, I may find myself ravenous in an hour or two. But I doubt it.

I know/hope this will change, but right now it seems so much easier to just eat 1000 calories every day and not "cycle" up and down.

Thoughts? Can you tell how much I hate uncertainty?
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:16 PM   #76
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Okay, guys. I need another round of encouragement, it seems.

I have had approximately 815 calories today. It is 6pm, and I'm probably going to turn in by 10pm, since I began my day at 6:30am. I am not in the slightest bit hungry - in fact, I feel the beginnings of my monthly abdominal bloat. So I can't imagine eating another 900 calories today if my life depended on it.

I fear this will be another UD that's not even close to my BMR calories (1700, rounded down).

Re-reading about leptin, hunger signals, and again, just refusing to "stuff" myself, or ever get comfortable with the idea of stuffing myself, is just not acceptable.

Granted, I may find myself ravenous in an hour or two. But I doubt it.

I know/hope this will change, but right now it seems so much easier to just eat 1000 calories every day and not "cycle" up and down.

Thoughts? Can you tell how much I hate uncertainty?
What did you eat so far today? And how much of it did you eat? Did you make these foods yourself? Did you measure out your portions before you ate? (In other words, are your calorie numbers so far actually accurate.. some folks are able to say they absolutely measure, while others admit that they just put food on their plate, so just checking here..)
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:23 PM   #77
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Measured, read packages, weighed (have a kitchen scale) and entered online where I count. And I was conservative, as always:

Would you like the breakdown?
Kraft center cut bacon, 2 slices 47
1/2 end slice San Luis Cracked Wheat sourdough 35
Joseph's sugar free peanut butter (1 teaspoon) 100
Roasted chicken breast w/wing and skin (conservative, checked several same weight) 366
41g of french fries (going by In & Out, which are similar to what I had) 130
Trader Joe's Just a Handful almonds, cashews, cranberries 21.5g 105
Trader Joe's Roasted Seaweed Snack package 60
Psyllium husk (which is one reason I'm so full) 15 (some people don't even count this)
Total: 828

Last edited by buttah; 08-01-2012 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Measured, read packages, weighed (have a kitchen scale) and entered online where I count. And I was conservative, as always:

Would you like the breakdown?
Kraft center cut bacon, 2 slices 47
1/2 end slice San Luis Cracked Wheat sourdough 35
Joseph's sugar free peanut butter (1 teaspoon) 100
Roasted chicken breast w/wing and skin (conservative, checked several same weight) 366
41g of french fries (going by In & Out, which are similar to what I had) 130
Trader Joe's Just a Handful almonds, cashews, cranberries 21.5g 105
Trader Joe's Roasted Seaweed Snack package 60
Psyllium husk (which is one reason I'm so full) 15 (some people don't even count this)
Total: 828
One teaspoon of peanut butter????? Was that on the 1/2 end slice of bread?

I'm beginning to see some major differences in how the two of us eat, that's for certain. (And I do not mean to imply that your modest view is wrong! If anything, I'd like to scale down my own feelings in that area. I still struggle sometimes with portion sizes. LOL) I'd have the whole slice of bread, toasted, slathered in butter, and with about two tablespoons of melt-y peanut butter topping it. And be eating it along with a cup of coffee with half & half, or maybe just a glass of cold whole milk. So my peanut butter toast would be 335 calories plus another 150 cals for my glass of milk.

Just do the best you can and do some work each day toward trying to eat either up or down to your number, or at least closer. I think a big thing that helps is to plan our your menus for your meals for each day, at least sketchily. I expect you'll get there after a bit.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:52 PM   #79
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This would be where I would have some greek yogurt with hwc mixed in and real blueberries for about 300 cals.



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Old 08-01-2012, 07:01 PM   #80
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One teaspoon of peanut butter????? Was that on the 1/2 end slice of bread?
Well, you can see that I'm afraid these types of foods. They're my adult version of monsters under the bed, only they live in the kitchen. Hence the itsy bits. Although a teaspoon of really good peanut butter does go a long way. And it was a big end! And I was planning on the bacon, so I was... cautious.

I think my metabolism is seriously broken. I am reading Robin Woodall's book's chapter on leptin, and it's talking about how fat people basically have more "fuel efficient" bodies, due to leptin issues. We need less food to feel full, and we get more energy out of less fuel, whereas thin people need more food for the same amount of energy.

As I've said before, my assistant (who's with me most of the day) can't believe I haven't lost half my body weight with what I've been eating.

I'm going to try to eat a little more later, and just really focus on getting those DD's where I was yesterday (finally). Maybe then I'll eventually have more appetite on UD's.

I do notice that I have the most real (stomach vs. brain) hunger earlier in the day. So it might be good for me to focus on those hours.

Basically, I'm apparently really weird.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:04 PM   #81
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OMG, I left off the half and half!!! So, that brings me to 852! Phew.

ETA: And correction in my post - it was a tablespoon of PB. But I did have the calories CORRECT. So there.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #82
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Well, fasting is being shown to be powerful in *healing* us in many of the ways we are broken and functioning poorly, and many of us experience a great deal of improvement, to the point where folks can list for you the changes and improvements in their health and function after being on JUDDD for a few months.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:11 PM   #83
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I actually read WLA and believe that her theory of "eat to hunger scale" is very important. I have read of hundreds of people who this has helped and some did not do the hcg protocol and it still worked quite well. So here is where I ask, "did you really eat to hunger satisfaction? You are fully satisfied? Because if this is so, then you will eventually arrive at the point each day where you are able to eat more and JUDDD will work.

You know that you can ask Robin about this and she will answer on her Facebook group.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:14 PM   #84
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Well, fasting is being shown to be powerful in *healing* us in many of the ways we are broken and functioning poorly, and many of us experience a great deal of improvement, to the point where folks can list for you the changes and improvements in their health and function after being on JUDDD for a few months.

Pat, I think the healing will come, but it may be about a month or more into the JUDDD before she will see the results. If Buttah is going to stop in a few weeks to do Hcg, she may not get to see this work like we know that it can until she has finished the protocol, which would be 2 months and one week after her start date.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:16 PM   #85
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Sunday, I discovered the Hunger Scale years ago in a now-defunct book/seminar called Thin Within. I lost the 15 lbs I needed to at the time, and kept it off for years until I had my three pregnancies, which is the weight I'm finally getting around to now. My adoption of the Hunger Scale, subsequent abandonment and re-acquisition of it... is one of the reasons I am just so unwilling to eat beyond a 5/6. I can't go there ever again.

So trust me, I am satisfied.

I think there may be an inherent contradiction with JUDDD and eating by the Hunger Scale, though. I hope not. I'm going to keep at it a while and really try to see.

And who knows, if JUDDD starts to feel a little more comfortable for me, I may delay HCG. We'll see. Nothing's in stone yet.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:23 PM   #86
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Well, her book is the reason that I struggle so much with the high UD. I love eating by the hunger scale and really do know it is important for our personal leptin hormones to know that we aren't going to eat past satiation.

If it worked for you in the past, it will work for you now. I am just now getting the hang of the whole thing. I just read the book in May and have to tell you, it would have helped me a whole lot if I had read it before I ever did the protocol. JUDDD can be done using the hunger scale, but you may have to suffer on DD or if you so choose, eat more on DD.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:28 PM   #87
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Sunday, you may enjoy reading the 1985 version of Thin Within, which you can find on Amazon. Later editions got very religious, and, frankly, turned me off.

However, at my current weight I feel I need something a little more structured than solely eating in the Hunger Scale. Hence JUDDD... or possibly HCG to get me along the way.

I wish the site gave me more time to edit without an edit.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:42 PM   #88
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Location: Heartland- smack dab in the middle
Posts: 4,819
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Stats: 225/145/ ...
WOE: Perfect Health Diet- 16hr Daily Fast
Start Date: JUDDD - 2/01/12 Began at 200, Goal 130
If you are going to do the hcg protocol, I truly believe you should join her FB group. She will answer any questions and quite frankly, I think it could be the difference in getting the best success and stabilization. I will look up the book, "Thin within", but wonder when I will be able to read it??? I have so many books sitting waiting for me to open. LOL! I am eating to satiety right now and getting about 1500 calories on UD, but every once in a while I am overly hungry on DD and that is where I wonder if I should have more cals. I have started taking pterostilbene and it is helping a whole lot with hunger pangs.

Buttah, as everyone who believes in JUDDD will tell you, you have to make this work for yourself. It is a personal mission that only you can make apply to your own life. My bet is that you are going to love it when you find your magic numbers. I had to make mine work with my life and that is when I knew that I could do this plan. I have lost and regained on every single plan that I have done since meno, but with JUDDD ...I have not regained.

Last edited by sunday; 08-01-2012 at 07:54 PM..
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:52 PM   #89
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,833
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Stats: 189/137/136-140
WOE: peri-meno "corrective" R4
Start Date: LowCal/Dukan/JUDD 2/12-8/12, then 3 rounds rxHCG
Thanks, Sunday!!! I appreciate your words.

Which is the FB group - the title of the book?

I have actually sent an inquiry to Robin's clinic regarding long distance counseling! We'll see.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:29 PM   #90
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Stats: 189/137/136-140
WOE: peri-meno "corrective" R4
Start Date: LowCal/Dukan/JUDD 2/12-8/12, then 3 rounds rxHCG
Oh dear. It's 8:27pm, getting sleepy. I'm a bit above 1000 calories. I feel a little hungry, but nothing caloric really appeals to me after eating chicken skin and a few fries today.

This may turn into a MD (which is horrible because we have dinner plans with friends on Friday, which I need to be an UD.

(Sunday, I think my magic number for UD will land somewhere around 1500, too.)

As for today, argh.
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