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Old 07-29-2012, 06:09 PM   #1
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DD's + my profession = super hard

I am a writer, and my work supports my entire family - so it's not a hobby or something I can just do every other day and produce good pages or meet my deadlines.

But after 4 DD's, I can now safely say it is VERY hard to sit at a computer and be creative for 6 hours a day (with a couple of walk breaks) when I'm this hungry. If my work were more task-oriented, I'd be fine. When I'm just dealing with my kids, or errands, I can also ignore hunger or at least successfully distract myself from it. When I have a day of meetings, as I occasionally do, I'll be fine. But what I can't seem to do is be creative and productive in the way that I need to on regular writing days, which is most days. I am completely unable to "get lost" in the process the way I need to.

Just from the past week of JUDDD, I'm considerably behind in the project I'm doing right now. And two of the days I even tried eating higher percentage calorie DD's. It was no better.

Does anyone have a similar problem? How have you solved it?

Last edited by buttah; 07-29-2012 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:23 PM   #2
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I can give you tips, but whether they will answer the entire problem or not, I don't know.

Eat during the hours you need the food. In other words, if you need to write from 9 to 5, divide your day's calories between 2 small meals at 10 and 2 (or something similar) and let supper be the meal that's tiny, or the meal you skip. Lot's of people try to put off calories as long as they can on a DD but that would be counter-productive for you.

Chew chewing gum, which will distract from the inclination to put something in your mouth if it's not genuine hunger you're experiencing.

Check the calorie calculator and move to a higher percentage of calories on DDs that you need to write. If a DD falls on a day you're not working, go back to the lower percentage.

Read up on choosing the right foods for mental alertness.

Best wishes. I hope you can find answers to this problem. Remember, most people report the hunger does get better over time.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #3
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Buttah, I have a similar life. In my case, time solved it. My first DDs were irritable and unproductive. Now they're far more productive than UDs. And both are more productive than the old screw-the-diet-I'm-a-useless-human-being-anyway days.
It took about 4-5 weeks for my DDs to feel good. it's not that they're all effortless, but I prefer them for work, now.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:44 PM   #4
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I can only say....hold on! It does get better. I see you started JUDDDing on the 22nd. Do what you can to get through these first weeks and soon you'll find you don't need the calories so much....keep hydrated and do check out "brain foods" and stick to those when you can. Let us know how you're doing next month...hang in there, it does get better.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:45 PM   #5
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Stephdray mentioned the exact same thing; not being able to concentrate & be creative. I hope she's found a way around it and will pop in with some advice.

Have you considered "MUDDDing"?
Would one or two "normal" meals a day be enough to keep you going?
Like, UD breakfast one day, eat DD lunch & dinner;
then DD breakfast the next day, with UD lunch & dinner.

Another option might be to increase your DDs a little.
And, if that makes you stall, you could try subtracting those calories (maybe 200-300?) from your UDs.
I know a couple people have mentioned doing that successfully,
or it even sped up their weight loss.
(I know there needs to be a significant "calorie spread" between UDs & DDs;
but there's debate on how much, and it prob varies from person to person.)

The other thing might be to research supplements that help you burn fat/convert fat to energy. I Googled "ATP energy supplements" and "cellular energy supplements", came up with things like B-vitamins, L-carnitine, CoQ10, and NADH.

Omega-3s are supposed to be helpful with mobilizing nutrients in and out of cells as well as hormone signaling (so you don't feel "fake" hunger).

Sunday recently mentioned pterosomething...pterodactyl...no...pterostilbene! !!

Also, l-theanine might be helpful. It's a compound found in green tea, and although I've only used it occasionally, I noticed a great increase in concentration & mental function when I did; the ability to "get lost" in a project, as you described it. I call it meditation in a bottle, lol.

PS--Congrats on being a successful writer..able to support your family...wow!!!
That was what I wanted to be "when I grew up".
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Last edited by piratejenny; 07-29-2012 at 06:47 PM..
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:10 PM   #6
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Well, unfortunately (or fortunately), I think I'm already doing most of these things. I am spending my calories on mostly proteins and veggies, w/ healthy fats. I stick to low-glycemic foods, as I have for years. I have tried up to 700 calories (the calculator says 300-something, but I have trouble w/ 500) and have spread them out during my working hours, and believe me, it is genuine stomach cramp hunger. I am not just looking to have something in my mouth - I have never been a snacker when I'm writing - my problem there was always the evenings when I was finished!

I take omegas, cinnamon, a few other supplements I've researched. I'm kind of an overweight health nut, if you know the breed. I drink green tea, but it sometimes makes me hunger, so I've been avoiding it on JUDDD.

I have even reduced my walking on DD's for fear it will be even worse.

The only other thing I should mention is that I've found it nearly impossible to meet my UD "normal" calories (1750). I have stopped at satiety (around 1500-1650 so far) and a comfortable tummy; I believe in the hunger scale, and I have worked years not to eat into that "stuffed" range, and I refuse to re-develop that habit! But even having said that, yesterday was the day I almost hit my "normal" calorie, and today is absolutely my least focused and hungriest DD! So I'm already slightly reducing UD's and upping DD's. My average so far is 1100 a day.

I will try to be patient, but trust me, I don't have 4-5 weeks! The people waiting for what should be coming out of computer soon will be very angry, and word of "lateness" with what I do travels very quickly. Hopefully I will finish next week (JUDDD permitting) and then have a few days off the crunch.

Sigh. This is one reason I'm investigating HCG!

Thank you all for the tips and encouragement. I'm not giving up yet.

Last edited by buttah; 07-29-2012 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:25 PM   #7
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Oh, one thing that might help me is having more than one package of Miracle Noodles (shirataki) a day. OR more than two. Is that okay? Anyone have any digestive issues with that?

I just melted 1.5 wedges of laughing cow on a package, and it's delish!
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:26 PM   #8
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Some people definitely do have digestive issues with the noodles, but if *you* don't, I wouldn't worry about having too much.

Using glucomannan powder, or any other type of fiber, can cause constipation and "absorb" medication (so you don't get the full intended dose). But the fiber in the noodles has been processed in such a way that it won't absorb much liquid or expand (may not entirely break down, either! ). So if they don't bother you, I'd think they're pretty harmless.

In listing supplements, I mean to mention that l-glutamine has helped me a lot with hunger.

If you're really determined to do JUDDD, perhaps you could take a couple/few weeks to ease into it? Make your DD 100-200 calories lower than your UD...then another 100...then another...

Btw, I have diabetes and I have found cinnamon to be a bit TOO powerful for me.
It works for lowering my BG, but has actually made me get starving-shaky-hungry.
Maybe try not using it on DDs, if you're taking it every day.

Quote:
I'm kind of an overweight health nut, if you know the breed.
I'm one, too!!!

Quote:
I drink green tea
Have you ever taken l-theanine?
I mentioned it already but worried it got lost in all the other stuff.

Quote:
I have worked years not to eat into that "stuffed" range, and I refuse to re-develop that habit!
Good for you; I really respect that. I had trained myself to wait 5 hours between meals (part of plans to control diabetes & increase leptin sensitivity) but it's a struggle on DDs because I don't find the meals to be very filling.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:44 PM   #9
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I will now read up on l-theanine and l-glutamine. I assume they are healthy and not risky in any way.

I've read that the Miracle noodles can help constipation if you drink a lot of water ( do), but they haven't done anything to me either way.

What is BG? I should note that I don't take cinnamon every day. In fact I didn't take it yesterday or today, so I don't think that's what's making me hungry. Duh, I think trying to eat 500 calories is making me hungry!!!

Just wanted to mention, I've also read the MUDDD threads (isn't that you, PJ?), but I think that might actually be harder for me, given my working hours are usually 10-3ish.

Last edited by buttah; 07-29-2012 at 08:47 PM..
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #10
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BG=Blood glucose
(I prefer that to the abbreviation for blood sugar, lol).

Yes, MUDDD...that's me.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:50 PM   #11
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I think PJ has given great advice here. Miracle Noodles are a life saver for me but I can only eat 1 packet divided per day. Sometimes that gives me issues. I see you and I are about the same size.

You will find that some veggies work better than miracle noodles for satiety. Zucchini, cucumbers, cauliflower, and squash.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:18 AM   #12
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I have much the same problem. I honestly LOVE my DD's on the weekends. Getting up later, I don't notice the hunger as I am just doing busy work that doesn't require my full "mind" attention. Once I hit goal my PLAN to try and do MWFSa up days with TTH DD's and Sunday a mid day.

I will say, DD's do get much better. After the first month I saw a noticable difference. I try to keep lower cal protein stuff at work for emergency DD's. I mean, if I can't concentrate, I can't do my job. 1% cottage cheese has been an amazing thing for me. I can eat it twice on a DD with Strawberries, tomato, on a salad, you name it.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:19 AM   #13
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OH I should also mention I drink over a gallon of water. ON DD's I try chugging it early so my tummy "feels full".
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipp2play View Post
OH I should also mention I drink over a gallon of water. ON DD's I try chugging it early so my tummy "feels full".
I have been doing the same and it does make DD less painful. In fact, water seems to keep me from late night eating. I will say head hunger knaws at me at times and the battle with the mind can be key.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
I am a writer, and my work supports my entire family - so it's not a hobby or something I can just do every other day and produce good pages or meet my deadlines.

But after 4 DD's, I can now safely say it is VERY hard to sit at a computer and be creative for 6 hours a day (with a couple of walk breaks) when I'm this hungry. If my work were more task-oriented, I'd be fine. When I'm just dealing with my kids, or errands, I can also ignore hunger or at least successfully distract myself from it. When I have a day of meetings, as I occasionally do, I'll be fine. But what I can't seem to do is be creative and productive in the way that I need to on regular writing days, which is most days. I am completely unable to "get lost" in the process the way I need to.

Just from the past week of JUDDD, I'm considerably behind in the project I'm doing right now. And two of the days I even tried eating higher percentage calorie DD's. It was no better.

Does anyone have a similar problem? How have you solved it?
sorry I have no advise but the other ladies on this board will give you a wealth of ideas. I also write but as a hobby and find when I'm writing my brain just takes over and I go into a zone where hunger and thirst don't exist, heck unless my bladder is bursting I just write and write. I think if I were writing as a job, the stress might keep me in a less la-la land type mode and hunger would break through. I wish I could write everyday but it just doesn't work when the kids are home from school.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:12 AM   #16
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I encourage you to return to Dr J's website and calculate DDs at 35%. Try eating at 35% for a few weeks - that will give you more food AND still generate our old buddies, the sirtuin enzymes. You should even lose a bit of weight at that level. If you are comfortable there, after two weeks or a month (giving sirt time to build up in your system), then start backing down DD calories.

For me, usually DDs are tremendously productive. Since I rarely think of food, I can concentrate on other things. It took me about a month of eating about 35% to get there.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:37 AM   #17
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Another vote here for sticking it out with higher calorie DDs. It took me 5-6 weeks to really stop feeling horribly hungry on DDs but once it happens it really is easy. I went up to 6, sometimes 7 hundred calories to manage things at the start. I also found out which foods keep you fuller longer. Cold boiled new potatoes and white fish or salmon (actually a nice meal) are documented highest satiety foods.

Coconut oil in black coffee are life savers. I also find a high intensity workout in the morning makes it easier to last until that evening meal.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:57 AM   #18
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Yes. 35% is 622 calories. And that's about what I'm eating, if not closer to 700!! Except yesterday, I managed 550, but it was worst DD ever.

And an intense workout? Yikes. Right now if I do any vigorous exercise on DD's, I'm hungrier and doomed. And for me, starches hurt rather than help, so I really do think I'm eating the right foods (protein, veggies, small amounts of healthy fats, etc.)

How long until the Skinny gene usually kicks in?

Today is an UD. I'll at least be able to think clearly, do some more reading on some of these suggestions and get some work done. I do thank you from the bottom of my heart for the support. I probably sound like a cry baby, and I'm so sorry. But if you can't gripe here, where can you?

And Becky, the "zone where hunger and thirst don't exist" becomes much harder to reach, oddly, once they begin paying you and expecting brilliance. Now I like to say that I "hate writing, but I love having written."

Last edited by buttah; 07-30-2012 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Well, unfortunately (or fortunately), I think I'm already doing most of these things. I am spending my calories on mostly proteins and veggies, w/ healthy fats. I stick to low-glycemic foods, as I have for years. I have tried up to 700 calories (the calculator says 300-something, but I have trouble w/ 500) and have spread them out during my working hours, and believe me, it is genuine stomach cramp hunger. I am not just looking to have something in my mouth - I have never been a snacker when I'm writing - my problem there was always the evenings when I was finished!

I take omegas, cinnamon, a few other supplements I've researched. I'm kind of an overweight health nut, if you know the breed. I drink green tea, but it sometimes makes me hunger, so I've been avoiding it on JUDDD.

I have even reduced my walking on DD's for fear it will be even worse.

The only other thing I should mention is that I've found it nearly impossible to meet my UD "normal" calories (1750). I have stopped at satiety (around 1500-1650 so far) and a comfortable tummy; I believe in the hunger scale, and I have worked years not to eat into that "stuffed" range, and I refuse to re-develop that habit! But even having said that, yesterday was the day I almost hit my "normal" calorie, and today is absolutely my least focused and hungriest DD! So I'm already slightly reducing UD's and upping DD's. My average so far is 1100 a day.

I will try to be patient, but trust me, I don't have 4-5 weeks! The people waiting for what should be coming out of computer soon will be very angry, and word of "lateness" with what I do travels very quickly. Hopefully I will finish next week (JUDDD permitting) and then have a few days off the crunch.

Sigh. This is one reason I'm investigating HCG!

Thank you all for the tips and encouragement. I'm not giving up yet.
In addition to all the tips you have been given, and just giving in time, I'd first recommend eating all your UD calories. It should be easy to get another 200 cals in...perhaps add some avocado to your sandwich or butter to your eggs? I notice a difference if I don't "re-feed" well enough on a UD.

Also, I find that a bigger meal at night on a UD can help me get through the first part of a DD better. This took awhile for me to figure out because I like to eat a nice breakfast and lunch, with a light dinner, but then I was starving on my DD. Adding a few calories to dinner and a later (8pmish) snack (I can't eat big too late) really helped.

I hope you find what works for you!
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:11 AM   #20
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Buttah--go big with bulk. I make huge protein/glu/almond milk/ice shakes for 100 calories. I make enormous protein/cabbage/laughing cow lite stirfries. I make huge vats of chicken/shiritake/southwestern eggbeater soup--lean protein, a ton of veg and lots of liquid. You can get huge meals for not that many calories. I make oatfiber muffins and cakes (check out my profile, my name links to a million recipes) that are uber filling and few actual calories. Bulk is the name of the game. I'm with you--if I am hungry, I have a hard time doing my job--and I am a psychologist and have to listen carefully every freaking second. I totally feel for you.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipp2play View Post
OH I should also mention I drink over a gallon of water. ON DD's I try chugging it early so my tummy "feels full".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I have been doing the same and it does make DD less painful.
Chugging large amounts of plain water is a KNOWN way to cause death, so I hope you gals are exaggerating. Please read: Water intoxication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously it's working for you, and you haven't died, but I don't think it's good to recommend this to others without some warning!

Water can pass through your body very quickly, depleting electrolytes; small amounts of sugar, salt, & potassium help it get absorbed better. If you're not eating much on DDs, having some broth* throughout the day, and/or putting slices of lemon (or orange) in your water could help.



PS--a spoonful of miso or a squirt of Bragg's Amino Acids in warm water is quick, if you don't have time to cook soups, and more natural than most bouillon powders/cubes/etc.

PPS--I'm not sure, but coffee or tea might be better than plain water!
Even Buddhists who do regular & extensive fasting drink tea all day--not just water.

Last edited by piratejenny; 07-30-2012 at 08:38 AM.. Reason: PS
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:07 AM   #22
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I used to drink too much, but I am now drinking only 100 oz water daily. For my weight, I can assure you that is not harmful. Plus the 1st 20 oz is a dash of sea salt with lemon/acv. When you walk as much as I do, I have to hydrate!
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:16 AM   #23
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ouizgold, I think your post is the answer to my prayers. May I ask what protein powder you use? I have one that's a bit higher cal, but very high quality. I hope I can find every single one of those recipes you mention (I also have some GREAT Miracle noodles ones, but I need some new stuff). If not, I will PM you (if I ever get the PM button on my control panel, that is.)
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:20 AM   #24
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Hi,

I can really sympathize with this. It's not an issue of feeling hungry, but my brain just doesn't work at full efficiency below a certain level of calories.

I wish I had some suggestions. What I've done is just accept a lower level of productivity as a temporary trade-off for losing weight. I try to schedule particularly brain-intensive tasks on UD's, or if I have a lot to do, I'll skip a DD and do 2 UD's in a row. If it's a DD and I feel like I need to eat more to focus, I'll sometimes do the Atkins thing and eat a 3-egg omelette (which doesn't actually have THAT many calories compared to regular foods) and that helps for a while.

Maybe it would help if you forced yourself to eat more on UD's so that your body has more energy in reserve for DD's. Also it seems like you're, well, about my size, weight-wise, so maybe you just need to be eating more to begin with - did you think about increasing your UD calories, and experimenting with how high you can go on DD calories and still lose?

Finally I find that exercise helps me focus. If exercising on DD's makes you hungrier, you could eat a bit more to compensate.

Hope it works out!
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:33 AM   #25
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The writing process is such that I simply can't accept a lower level of productivity every other day. A good day (creativity-wise) feeds another good day. A bad day tends to lead to another bad day. The writing process is it's own weird science, and for me, it means writing EVERY single day (which already means better and worse days). It's just not feasible for me to throw a concentration monkey-wrench into the already voodoo science of creativity. I've simply got to make DD's less hungry - that's what it boils down to. High bulk, healthy (enough protein), lo cal meals like oizoid says. And eating a higher percentage of my DD cal's, as I've already been doing. I think that's going to help the
most.

You are all awesome. No words for how helpful it is just venting and hearing the encouragement from everyone. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #26
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buttah--I use isopure protein. I make protein fudge with it that is great. I use it in my shakes. I use it in my DD baked goods.

a couple of links to things I make:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...flour-mix.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...hlight=ouizoid

Down Days recipes ONLY

Shake/smoothie recipes- give me your best!

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...hlight=ouizoid
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:56 AM   #27
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ouizoid, one of the links just takes me to DD recipes' first page. What was that supposed to be? And sorry, can you please tell me how you make the protein fudge? Big time newbie here.

And is peanut flour the same thing as powdered peanut butter (PB2), or will it at least suffice? I have some of that on the way.

Last edited by buttah; 07-30-2012 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Chugging large amounts of plain water is a KNOWN way to cause death, so I hope you gals are exaggerating. Please read: Water intoxication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No I am not exaggerating. I have drank over a gallon of water a day for over 10 years. Now on DD's I drink closer to 170 oz. I have never gotten remotely close to water intoxication. I have clearer skin, less headaches and such when I keep my water at that level. I am very active and when I workout sweat a TON. Keeping at this level as been the best thing I have ever done!

Last edited by zipp2play; 07-30-2012 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
For my weight, I can assure you that is not harmful.
Quote:
No I am not exaggerating. I have always drank over a gallon of water a day.
As I said, obviously it is working for you. I didn't mean it as a criticism, or to put you on the defensive. I just want to warn anyone else who might take it as advice but be of different body size or activity level, or not getting enough salt in their diet to deal with suddenly adding large amounts of water.

Specifically,
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipp2play View Post
OH I should also mention I drink over a gallon of water. ON DD's I try chugging it early so my tummy "feels full".
I was worried that "it" could be interpreted as "I chug it over a gallon of water in the morning."

Quote:
the 1st 20 oz is a dash of sea salt with lemon/acv
Good idea!!!
Yummy, too...I love lemon & salt!!!
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:31 AM   #30
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Jenny - I didn't mean to sound that way. Just wanted to clarify!

Monica, I have always wanted to drink more, but I would be up all night tinkling! Good for you, I am sure that this is probably helping you with JUDDD!
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