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Old 07-30-2012, 01:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
As I said, obviously it is working for you. I didn't mean it as a criticism, or to put you on the defensive. I just want to warn anyone else who might take it as advice but be of different body size or activity level, or not getting enough salt in their diet to deal with suddenly adding large amounts of water.
I didn't mean to sound like I took offense to what you wrote. I just wanted to indicate that, for me, drinking that much has had wonderful benefits. I am sure not everyone can drink the water that I do! It is whatever works best for each person. SOrry if I indicated I was upset, I didn't mean to sound that way. All is good here!

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Old 07-30-2012, 01:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Monica, I have always wanted to drink more, but I would be up all night tinkling! Good for you, I am sure that this is probably helping you with JUDDD!
The key for me, so I'm not up all night, is I only drink about 8 oz of all that after 4:00 p.m. I rarely get up in the middle of the night to tinkle!!
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:13 PM   #33
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A new wrinkle in my problem: Starving on DD's, but not hungry on UD's?!!!

At first I thought it was a freak thing. But this is the second round where I've felt this way.

Yesterday, I couldn't concentrate, and I was incredibly hungry all day and night. I managed to keep to around 600 calories, 550 if you don't count the psyilium fiber.

Today, an UD, I've had about 500 so far, and it's 5pm! If I had felt like this yesterday, I might have actually gotten some work done. Meanwhile, we're supposed to go out for Mexican food tonight (been looking forward to a tostada sans shell and sour cream. But I am just not hungry. According to the calculator, I have 1200+ calories left to go. I refuse to stuff food into my stomach when it's not hungry. Took too many years to break that habit.

Thus far, I have never managed to eat all my UD calories, and now it's looking like today will be no different.

Is this normal in the beginning? This is my 9th day of JUDDD. And when does that skinny gene thingie kick in?

What's the deal?
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:40 PM   #34
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Yep..totally normal! lol!!!

You could always try for an UD tomorrow, if you don't eat a lot tonight.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #35
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Ha ha. I managed pretty good after all. Now to try and reasonably calculate the tostada calories. Maybe tomorrow will be my first easy DD.


EDIT: I was conservative (in the direction of more) counting the tostada calories. Even included the tablespoon of sour cream and the 6 chips I ate. I'm still at 1190 today. Unbelievable. I am stuffed.

Surely it won't be good to end my UD at 1190?

And tomorrow, I must have a high page count to make up for yesterday. High page count/low calories? Oh dear oh my. Help?

Last edited by buttah; 07-30-2012 at 09:18 PM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
Buttah--go big with bulk. I make huge protein/glu/almond milk/ice shakes for 100 calories. I make enormous protein/cabbage/laughing cow lite stirfries. I make huge vats of chicken/shiritake/southwestern eggbeater soup--lean protein, a ton of veg and lots of liquid. You can get huge meals for not that many calories. I make oatfiber muffins and cakes (check out my profile, my name links to a million recipes) that are uber filling and few actual calories. Bulk is the name of the game. I'm with you--if I am hungry, I have a hard time doing my job--and I am a psychologist and have to listen carefully every freaking second. I totally feel for you.
This is just what I was coming in to say! I think sometimes folks don't realize how amazing Down Day food can be and how HUGE a plateful of food you can have, full tummy and a big happy sigh.

My favorite shake ends up making enough to fill a great big tall oversized glass, the kind that is two or three times the size of a regular drinking glass, and under 100 calories! I'm full for hours from it. Here's the recipe, which I posted into another thread this evening as well: pumpkin pie shake. Very large and scrumptious! Filling. You can ride on this meal for hours! About 94 calories.

1 cup unsweetened Vanilla Almond Milk
1/2 cup canned unsweetened pumpkin (not pie filling)
1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp pumpkin pie spice
1/4 cup (or more) Walden Farms 0-Calorie Pancake Syrup (Splenda).. but I think DaVinci's syrups might work as well, as well as Splenda, or whatever. Just count any calories. I like (love) the Walden Farms Pancake Syrup because of the addition of that maple-y pancake syrup flavor and no additional calories from it. LOL If it isn't sweet enough for you, pour in more Pancake Syrup! Ha!

Put the ingredients into your blender with about 10 ice cubes and blend it all up into a fabulous ice cream milkshake.. without the ice cream. I put the ice cubes into a plastic bag and break them into chunks before even putting the ice into the blender.. seems to help it turn into my shake faster.

You will get a giant glass of milkshake from this.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:15 PM   #37
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I was also going to add that it isn't necessary to balance every meal of every day when it comes to your nutrition.. you are OK to balance out your nutritional needs of a couple of days. So this means that I can go very easy on fat and animal protein on Down Days, which saves me a lot of calories, and lean heavily on the low calorie vegetables instead, which gives me a lot of bulk and food mass in my tummy. Very filling. Very satisfying. Very delicious. And full of nutritional value.

Then on the following UDs, I get to splurge on the meats and everything else that I cut to low amounts on my DDs, and it all balances out.

There is never any reason for anyone to be feeling hungry on their Down Days. It just takes a little bit of research to find a bunch of recipes and menus to do the trick for you!
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:24 PM   #38
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Shake sounds great- I wish I had those ingredients for tomorrow!

But I fear that without animal protein I will not stay satiated on a down day. I assume I need it more than ever on those days, especially to concentrate. Do you really manage with little or no protein on DD's?
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:55 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
I've simply got to make DD's less hungry - that's what it boils down to.
If it's just the FEELING of being hungry... have you tried hoodia? (An herb you can get at a health food store) It works very well as an appetite suppressant. I took it for the first couple months of DD's, although for it to be effective for me I had to take about twice the amount than the packaging said (disclaimer: I am sure safe amounts to take are available online, but as far as I know there aren't any problems with that).

Also, I second the recommendations for glucomannan-powder shakes, noodles, etc, since they are quite filling.

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You are all awesome. No words for how helpful it is just venting and hearing the encouragement from everyone. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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Last edited by Avicenna; 07-31-2012 at 01:00 AM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
1 cup unsweetened Vanilla Almond Milk
1/2 cup canned unsweetened pumpkin (not pie filling)
1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp pumpkin pie spice
1/4 cup (or more) Walden Farms 0-Calorie Pancake Syrup (Splenda).. but I think DaVinci's syrups might work as well, as well as Splenda, or whatever. Just count any calories. I like (love) the Walden Farms Pancake Syrup because of the addition of that maple-y pancake syrup flavor and no additional calories from it. LOL If it isn't sweet enough for you, pour in more Pancake Syrup! Ha!
Looks good! I wouldn't be full for hours from it, but I'll have to try it next time I can find canned pumpkin around here. Reminds me of pumpkin flavoured coffee.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:05 AM   #41
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Buttah, can you give us an example of an average DD and an average UD? I mean what you eat and what time you eat it. I have a theory, but need additional info to see if it makes sense.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:42 AM   #42
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Chugging large amounts of plain water is a KNOWN way to cause death, so I hope you gals are exaggerating. Please read: Water intoxication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously it's working for you, and you haven't died, but I don't think it's good to recommend this to others without some warning!


I don't think it's necessary to be an alarmist as you have to drink a LOT of water to suffer from water intoxication. And to suffer the condition, water has to be drunk in one go, and not over the period of a day. It is usually restricted to athletes who drink a lot during an event, and is very rare.

It starts to get dangerous if you drink around 48oz of water within an hour, or more than 350oz in a day. The usual amount recommended for dieters (64oz) doesn't come close. Athletes, who lose a lot of water through sweat have larger requirement and hence they are more likely to suffer from hyponatremia.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Shake sounds great- I wish I had those ingredients for tomorrow!

But I fear that without animal protein I will not stay satiated on a down day. I assume I need it more than ever on those days, especially to concentrate. Do you really manage with little or no protein on DD's?
I not only manage on Down Days, I thrive! But I've learned over my almost two years of following this eating cycle. And as strange as it sounds, after doing this for awhile, a person very often finds their DDs are not just easy to do, they are amazing. You are worried about loss of ability to focus and concentrate but I find that DDs are little different than UDs, other than UDs allow me foods that I don't choose to eat on my DDs.

Here's an example for breakfast that gives you 23 grams of protein right off the bat with only 116 calories, according to ******:

Scrambled egg white & veggie omelet
* 5 egg whites
* 1/8 inch slice onion, minced
* 4 grape tomatoes, halved
* 2 oz fresh mushrooms, sliced
* 1 oz baby spinach leaves, chopped

I use a good non-stick pan and a 1-shot quick poof of olive oil spray, which I then pretty much wipe out of the skillet. Might be enough left to add two calories. LOL

I have a couple of mugs of hot tea with this, usually an English or Irish Breakfast tea.

This is only one meal... breakfast. But this breakfast scramble makes a big pile on my plate! I don't have to *use a little plate to make my food quantity look larger*... it IS a goodly amount!

Hope this helps.

Last edited by SoHappy; 07-31-2012 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:06 AM   #44
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Another thing you might try to get you over the hump and into it more easily:

Start JUDDD with Down Days at the 700 or 800 calorie level. As your brain and stomach get adapted to this up/down cycle of feeding, your brain/stomach rhythm of signaling appetite will change too.

Then you can work your way down to fewer calories on your DDs from that starting level.

Good luck. This WOE is so very, very worth it from far, far more than mere weight loss. The increase in physical and mental health that the fasting component brings has been shown over and over in studies. JUDDD goes beyond the health benefits of choosing only certain foods to eat and eliminating other foods entirely from your diet, if you choose to do that... beyond the health benefits that may be derived from weight loss itself. JUDDD adds another level of benefit to your life that research is continuing to be increasingly excited about. There is something about the calorie restriction in this way, and to this extent, that turns our physical bodies into repair and clean-up machines within our own bodies. Big health benefits from this plan beyond weight loss.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:53 AM   #45
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I don't know if this will help, but I have some 70 cal bread so I eat a piece of toast with that bread with some spray butter and a poched egg on top it keeps me full until lunch for 140 cal. If you can find 45 cal bread it is better. I find the toast gives me that crunchy thing that I like. Lunch have an open face sandwich with one piece of toasted bread with some lo cal lunch meat and mustard for about 130 cal and use bagged salad (iceberg is crispier) on the side for chips, three cups is like 15 cal. Try a cup of chicken broth using a boullion cube for some soup all together about 150 cal. Try snacking on celery and it is easier said then done, but try to concentrate on your work and get your mind off of food. It will get easier. I try to stick to breakfast lunch and dinner and not allow myself snacks. That way I can tell myself no you can not have anything until those times. Try to remind yourself if you hang on tomorrow you can have more. I drink water when I get that hungry feeling and take a ginger pill if I begin to fill a little sick in the stomach and drink water. It can be hard at first, but if you hang in there it does get better. Now I feel like I get more work done on DD because it helps to keep buisy. Some DD I don't eat until dinner and I seem to get a lot done on those days. I tend to have more energy when I don't eat during the day. Try to embrace those hunger pangs because they are getting you to your goal and you only have one day to do it because the next day you can eat more. I hope there is something here that is helpful
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:12 AM   #46
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Thank you for the suggestions.

As I mentioned, I am already eating in the 700+ calorie level. But I will try to do foods with more bulk, perhaps not worrying so much about getting protein in. I really do think that's the key.

I'm also going to take the advice of trying NOT to save my calories for the end of the day, as I have unconsciously been doing. Because as I also mentioned, my mind is not on food while I'm trying to write - but my STOMACH is. Days filled with errands, tasks and any sort of distraction are not an issue for me. Writing is its own animal, as some of you understand.

Any more great high-bulk recipes, especially w/ things like Miracle Noodles? Perhaps that needs its own thread, or should I just peruse the many pages of DD recipes that already exist? I don't want to be THAT newbie that posts too many threads!
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:46 PM   #47
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I have breakfast everyday similar to what Pat posted.
2 eggs + 2 egg whites, scrambled = 186 calories. I add a little water to the eggs and beat them with a fork and pour into a heated nonstick skillet. This makes a very filling breakfast. I follow the guidelines in MAstering Leptin and that plan calls for a high protein breakfast so I do not skip that meal. Lunch is thin sliced turkey wrapped around pickle spears that I have slit into thirds since one pickle spear is pretty big. 100 calories
Dinner (if I eat it) is 1/2 cup spaghetti sauce over shirataki noodles for 50 calories or over shredded zucchini for 100-150 calories depending on how much zucchini I shred.
These are not high bulk meals but they keep me prefectly satisfied on my DD's. I keep to the same foods since it is easier for me that way. Repeat every other day.
Research has shown that the better food tastes the more we eat. So boredom in my food choices works for me. Keeps me from obsessing about what to eat also.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:33 PM   #48
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buttah--the cabbage/chicken/laughing cow thing plus miracle noodles is great and filling, but I adore getting a can of pea soup from Trader Joes' (150 calories whole can) and adding a rinsed, drained bag of miracle rice. Sooo filling and bulky!
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharonB61 View Post
I don't think it's necessary to be an alarmist as you have to drink a LOT of water to suffer from water intoxication. And to suffer the condition, water has to be drunk in one go, and not over the period of a day. It is usually restricted to athletes who drink a lot during an event, and is very rare.

It starts to get dangerous if you drink around 48oz of water within an hour, or more than 350oz in a day. The usual amount recommended for dieters (64oz) doesn't come close. Athletes, who lose a lot of water through sweat have larger requirement and hence they are more likely to suffer from hyponatremia.
Some pts with schizophreia can also endanger their lives with water intoxication, but most of us should feel free to drink up if it helps with hunger control. I have treated only 2 schizophrenics at that, in ten years, that suffered from unquenchable thirst. You really can't imagine the amount of water that they would try to drink. We had to seal up the unit water fountins and monitor them near sinks!
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:25 PM   #50
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The writing process is such that I simply can't accept a lower level of productivity every other day. A good day (creativity-wise) feeds another good day. A bad day tends to lead to another bad day. The writing process is it's own weird science, and for me, it means writing EVERY single day (which already means better and worse days). It's just not feasible for me to throw a concentration monkey-wrench into the already voodoo science of creativity.
Hey there. I am also a professional author. I am facing these exact same challenges with JUDDD. It may be the only thing I'm qualified to talk about when it comes to the plan, so here I go.

First, a little honesty. My first three weeks were seriously rough when it came to getting work done and meeting deadlines. Like you, I can have meetings, clean the house, write up proposals, chat with my agent, and so on while I am hungry. I cannot, however, get lost in the story when my stomach is always yanking me out of it. So I hear you. I'm right there with you.

However, there are three things that helped me:

1) Attitude adjustment
2) Time
3) Experimentation

When I say attitude adjustment it isn't that I was a petulant cry-baby and neither are you. It's simply that I know I'm going to die young if I don't get this weight off me, so I need to explain to myself that I'll never meet my deadline if I have a stroke. I'll never finish my books if I remain unhealthy and my family will suffer consequences for it down the line. If I looked at my first few weeks on JUDDD as a sort of temporary disability time, a medical leave, if you will, I could put in the time. And so I did.

That time was crucial because the down days got easier by orders of magnitude. Those early down days, my body did everything it could to make me pay attention to its need for food. But today was my easiest down day by far. I could have written an opus if I wasn't catching up on email, etc. If all future down days, or even most future down days, are like this one, I can see this isn't going to be a problem for my creativity. Much like you pointed out the way creativity feeds on creativity, JUDDD seems to feed on JUDDD and hunger becomes more manageable if you give it the time it needs.

Then there is also experimentation. At first, I was so hungry that I could not sleep at night, which is why I would try to fast all day and eat a bigger meal before bed. But in time I learned that my hungriest hours were during the day when I needed to be productive, so I started dividing up my calories and learning what foods were more satisfying to me than others.

For some people it's bulk--but I'm starting to think for me it's fat and protein. Two halves of a deviled egg in the afternoon will usually hold me a good long time and get me through the writing day in a way their size and bulk would not seem to support. Each down day I do something a little different to test and learn. Gluc powder is a godsend on bad days. I make it into a pudding or a cake with oat fiber and I'm going to try to make it into a shake one of these days. I'm still learning.

Maybe you and I should try writing sprints together when we're super hungry and see what we do

Last edited by stephdray; 08-01-2012 at 10:37 PM..
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:19 PM   #51
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Stephdray, where have YOU been?!!!!!

We are very much alike, and it feels SO GOOD to hear from someone who understands that "taking my mind off food" and "focusing on my writing" is what I NORMALLY do, when I'm not on JUDDD. Writing on a DD is more akin to writing when you're down with the flu, right? And yes, I've got to eat my calories during my work time.

BUT, how do I say this without revealing too much, and I'm very paranoid about this...
my deadlines come much quicker than those of a novelist. And stupidly, I started JUDDD with something due, um, you know, kind of... very soon. Ooops.

I love your thinking about a "medical leave." But I don't think I'll be able to take one of those in the near future, as another writing round will quickly follow the one I'm doing now, with perhaps a few days off in between. I'm sorry for speaking in code.

How long have you been JUDDDing? How is it working for you now? My gluc powder just arrived today, so I'll be trying that tomorrow. And I too am focusing on protein, although perhaps not enough on fat. I will try and see.

Last edited by buttah; 08-01-2012 at 11:22 PM..
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:08 AM   #52
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I was so hoping that Steph would drop by to be a BUDDD for you. Brilliant.

You are both going to crack this, I am confident.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #53
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So glad Steph is back to help you out here. I think you 2 could be great support for each other.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #54
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Stephdray, where have YOU been?!!!!!
I was at a convention in California! I'm home now and getting back into the groove.

Quote:
We are very much alike, and it feels SO GOOD to hear from someone who understands that "taking my mind off food" and "focusing on my writing" is what I NORMALLY do, when I'm not on JUDDD. Writing on a DD is more akin to writing when you're down with the flu, right?
Yes, it's a lot like that!

Quote:
BUT, how do I say this without revealing too much, and I'm very paranoid about this...
my deadlines come much quicker than those of a novelist. And stupidly, I started JUDDD with something due, um, you know, kind of... very soon. Ooops.
I think I can guess what you do. And, cool.

So, I think you've got three choices here. You can either do JUDDD gung-ho, damn the consequences. You can do JUDDD half-assed, which is still better than no diet at all, and just accept the slower weight loss until you're through the woods on your deadline. Or you can quit JUDDD until after your deadline and have no weight loss or possibly weight gain.

Those are all viable choices but nobody can make them but you. As a writer, you probably know that we can offer good, fast and cheap, pick two. Well, I think dieting tends to be the same way. Good and fast weight loss results are going to come with a high price-tag in terms of time, effort and sacrifice. But good, cheap and slow isn't always a disaster, is it?

Trust me, if I could suggest another diet where the equation was not the same, I would. Low calorie was, for me, long-term suffering and lots more planning, which meant less hours of my day devoted to work. Low carb meant constant cooking and a level of inconvenience when not eating at home that was beyond my tolerance level for long periods of time. And neither of those were fast, it seemed, no matter how much effort I put into them.

So, my thinking is, pick two. Your efforts on JUDDD aren't likely to be wasted either way.

Quote:
How long have you been JUDDDing? How is it working for you now? My gluc powder just arrived today, so I'll be trying that tomorrow. And I too am focusing on protein, although perhaps not enough on fat. I will try and see.
I started JUDDDing on July 4th 2012. I lost about ten pounds in three weeks, give or take a pound. Then I went away on vacation, during which I managed to gain it all back, which has me *****ing and moaning in another thread. However, the good news is that I went back to my rotations immediately, and without dread, really. Yesterday was a ridiculously easy Down Day and this morning, I was back down by 4 lbs, so obviously a significant portion of that was water weight and now I'm on my way back down again.

I'll admit, I didn't like to see that number on the scale and it brought up all kinds of fears and anxiety for me, but I also wasn't on plan while on vacation, so it's not data that can be applied to this WOE.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #55
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #56
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
As a writer, you probably know that we can offer good, fast and cheap, pick two.

One of my favorite things to say. Along with, in business negotiations, "Hey, I'm a *****, not a ****!"

StephDray, if you see the end of my "whiney" thread, JUDDD has kicked in for me, finally, I think, even with my high DD's and low UD's. So right now, I'm going to try not to stress about a higher DD.

And I tend to forget that I had trickled up a few pounds by July 1, did a stint of Dukan Diet at around 179/180 on July 4, and I'm now 172 after an UD and 10 days of JUDDD.

So I'm feeling much better about everything.

Last edited by buttah; 08-02-2012 at 12:56 PM.. Reason: You can't read the quote. One starts with a W and has sex for money; the other starts with an S and is promiscuous.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:18 PM   #58
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So I'm feeling much better about everything.
YAY!!!
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
One of my favorite things to say. Along with, in business negotiations, "Hey, I'm a *****, not a ****!"

StephDray, if you see the end of my "whiney" thread, JUDDD has kicked in for me, finally, I think, even with my high DD's and low UD's. So right now, I'm going to try not to stress about a higher DD.
Awesome! And don't feel as if you're being whiney. Weight loss is hard. It presents unique challenges to all of us. So, when you've gotta vent, you've gotta vent.

If it's working for you, then it's working. End of story!
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Well, unfortunately (or fortunately), I think I'm already doing most of these things. I am spending my calories on mostly proteins and veggies, w/ healthy fats. I stick to low-glycemic foods, as I have for years. I have tried up to 700 calories (the calculator says 300-something, but I have trouble w/ 500) and have spread them out during my working hours, and believe me, it is genuine stomach cramp hunger.
I had the same issue trying to write and do research on DDs. So I switched to MUDD and it worked. I like it a lot better because I also had trouble eating up to 1800 calories.

I essentially broke my meals into DD meals at 200 calories apiece, and UP meals at 600 each. On alternating days, I would eat 2 DD and 1 UD meal, and on the next day I would eat 2 UD and 1 DD meal (I did the switch over at 5 pm). Here's what 2 cycles look like:

D: 200 cals (5 pm Aug 1)
B: 200 cals (10 am Aug 2)
L: 200 cals (1 pm Aug 2)


D: 600 cals (5 pm Aug 2)
B: 600 cals 10 am Aug3
L: 600 cals 1 pm Aug3

Good luck!
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