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Old 06-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #1
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Oh wise and wonderful JUDDD BUDDDs...

I am feeling a bit down in the dumps and have come to my JUDDD BUDDDs for some great pearls of wisdom.

I have been journeying the bright and beautiful land of JUDDD for five months now, and all was going well. I had a bit of a stall at the 3 month mark, but overall averaged about 8 pounds a month. Not fantastic when you have as much to lose as I do, but good progress I could be happy with. Twice I have had to lower my UD numbers to keep the weight loss moving along. ( I have tried both lowering and raising numbers). I have kept strictly to my rotation days without using any MD's. I had a few days where I exceeded my UD calories, but nothing too crazy. I have experienced good anti-inflammatory benefits, lost several pant sizes, and feel I have been managing my eating disorders pretty well.

For DD's I started out at 400 calories, but found once I ate and let out the hunger monster, DD's were torture. So I just pretty much just fasted on DD's, with water, iced tea, and coffee. Once SIRT1 kicked in, I could handle DD's with ease. Of course some days were better than others. On days when I felt really hungry, I would eat some cabbage.

I was seeing inches lost, better skin, better BP, less joint pain, and weight loss. But now, something seems to be changing. I wonder if leptin, ghrelin, or insulin hormones are being released more now causing severe hunger issues. I was reading about toxic fat and wondering if that is playing a role for me right now. I am hungry all the time. I feel like the SIRT1 enzymes aren't working. Is that possible when I am following JUDDD?

I have learned that this stored fat I have packed on is not static. It is constantly being broken down and repackaged, and as you lose weight, your progress naturally slows partly because you are encountering damaged fat cells that are older and have been previously crammed full of fat. They typically contain higher than desired amounts of fat-soluble toxins, complicating the weight loss process, and this is when strategies to improve metabolic efficiency really become important. You actually want new and more metabolically fit fat cells to form, but not while overeating, or weight gain will occur. You also want older fat cells to dump their contents and die, reducing your numbers of fat cells to a more normal level. I read this process takes months. It is also vital that you process the toxins correctly during this time or weight loss will come to a halt. I am sure my body fat is storing tons of toxins. I have been on antibiotics, heavy duty medications, and steroids for years. I understand the body fat holds on to the toxins which are released as fat is lost. I understand that sometimes the liver can't keep up with releasing the toxins so the body slows down.

So do people think this could be going on and impacting my SIRT1 enzymes? I am not seeing myself go down in inches, pants are not getting looser, my thumbs are aching again, I am not seeing weight loss, and I am HUNGRY!!! The beast is out and begging me to eat. For the first time in five months, I actually BLEW two DD's. Blowing a DD is NOT a good thing. It was almost like I didn't care! ( I do, but it didn't feel like it). Ghrelin was growling loud and furious. EAT EAT EAT!! Eat everything, it says. I tried to go to 500 calories on DD's, but that almost made it worse. Once I ate, I ate the house, including the roof. I feel guilty and out of control again. I don't understand what is going on. How could things have been going so well and then suddenly shift like this? What if I undo everything I have worked so hard for?

There was a period in my life when I couldn't sleep. I think the hormone cortisol was peaking at night instead of rising in the AM. NOTHING would turn it off. It is one powerful hormone. Even Ambien and other sleep meds couldn't override the hormone. This is kind of what I am feeling now only with food. Some hormone seems to be surging out of control causing an extreme unusual hunger that nothing seems to satiate. I am still continuing to take my supplements that usually help me with hunger- L-glutamine, Chia seeds, optimized saffron, CO, lemon water, etc. It's like my body is fighting me in a very powerful way to restore the fat I have worked so hard to lose. Why my body would do that is beyond me because the fat is so unhealthy.

I am eating as cleanly as I can,until I blow it. Low carb, avoiding sugar and alcohol, adequate protein and fats, etc. I am taking milk thistle to help support my liver in detoxing along with NAC and extra fiber.

I am definitely not giving up and will stick with JUDDD, but I am scared. I often am on plans for a few months and then something happens. It isn't so much the fact that I am not seeing the scale go down, but that I am not seeing the other things that show JUDDD is working like inches lost, anti-inflammatory properties, and lose of appetite. I am one pound short of hitting a 100 pound lose and 40 pound JUDDD loss.

I have found that my JUDDD BUDDDs are extremely wise and well read and wonder if anyone else has come across this situation and might have some ideas. I am sorry I haven't been around as much to lend support, but I am feeling depressed and am tired of fighting the unbelievable strong hunger pains. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:04 PM   #2
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Have you ever had the cortisol test? Or had your adrenals tested?
I know this may sound strange, but I just watched an episode about 3 months ago on "Mystery Diagnosis" (which I am obsessed with) about a girl whose cortisol was going bonkers and she had developed an extremely rare disorder similar or related to Cushing's Disease. She had always been a normal weight and then all of a sudden her weight began going up and very fast. If I remember right she gained 80 lbs in a year. Anyway, they found out and cured her issue and she is now living life as normal as before.

You can actually find the episode on ITunes, because if you go to the Discovery Channel website they will link you up to the proper ITunes to download.

Cortisol Levels Blood Test
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:06 PM   #3
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I am so sorry Beverly, I have watched your ticker change and been thrilled for your success this far! You may want to email Dr. Johnson and tell him just like you have told us. He apparently answers all emails.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:07 PM   #4
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Disclaimer: I am sort of new to JUDDD, but not new to IF, and not new to losing a lot of weight - I am actually 2 pounds away from 100 lbs. down from my highest recorded weight.

That said...

...if my body started fighting me like yours is, it would be time for me to "give" a little. I'd shift over to maintenance for a bit until my internal gremlins calmed down and restabilized.

I'm pretty sure you're doing all the right things. (It's not you.) But I really believe our internal homeostasis knows what it's doing, and there might be some reason you need to take a wee break, on your terms.

I'm not advocating eating everything in sight - just shifting into neutral until the internal seas change.

Lynne
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:09 PM   #5
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Welcome Lynne! I agree with this for certain and would definitely make the hunger issue disappear!
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #6
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for your frustration

Quote:
Why my body would do that is beyond me because the fat is so unhealthy.
Your body doesn't "see" fat as unhealthy.
It's protection!!!

There's a weight-loss "guru" I adore named Jon Gabriel; and he says that our bodies want to keep us safe. But they can react in only two ways: get fat (keeps us safe in the long run) or get skinny (so we can get away from predators more quickly--keeps us safe in the short term). His book is called The Gabriel Method and he has lots of free info on his site...I don't have an answer for you, but maybe you'd find something helpful there. He talks a lot about cortisol, stress, toxins, etc.

How much milk thistle do you take? I get it by the pound and take a teaspoon at night. It tastes kind of like oatmeal to me, so I make a drink with cinnamon, cream, and SF pancake syrup.
Turmeric is also very good for the liver...have you been following the "Golden Milk" discussion over on the DE thread?
Silica supplementation (diatomaceous earth)
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #7
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Beverly,

This actually sounds very much like what I was going through at the beginning of May (at my 5 month mark BTW). I wonder if that's a coincidence, or something to do with how we lose. I read and read and asked for advice, and decided to take a maintenance break. For me, I'm not sure if it was my medical issues influencing me, or diet fatigue, or just general blah feelings. I never really went up to maintenance numbers, but allow myself to use them if I need them.

I don't know if that would help you with your current situation, or not. For me, it gave me a wonderful sense of freedom and peace. I wasn't "pressured" anymore to lose, lose, lose. The thread I found most helpful was the "Why you need a break from WL" or something similar.

I don't have many of the other NSVs associated with sirtuins, so I can't explain why yours are fading. I do, however, firmly believe in the toxic fat thing. Whenever I start losing weight pretty quickly, I break out in hives. I have no other explanation for it except for the toxicity stored in my fat being released back into general circulation.

I'm sure someone will come along and give you some great advice (or they already have while I've been typing). All I can say is try to mix it up. Go into maintenance if you need to for a while. Have a blowout weekend, and jump right back into rotations. Just do something out of the norm and see what happens.



ETA: After I hit submit, I saw a whole bunch of responses. Aren't JUDDD BUDDDs the best?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #8
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Well Beverly - The others are all probably typing as we speak and will help you immensely but first off - IMHO - You have a super attitude and are a true hero in weight loss already. You are the EXPERT - we should be asking you the questions. You are a wealth of knowledge. I think all will agree that your body is resting up from all it's been through - needs that rest and you should probably switch to WLM - up your DD's to that or Maintenance while you regroup. You said, "Why my body would do that is beyond me because the fat is so unhealthy." However, Dr. J. says as well as other authorities that the body is programmed for survival foremost. You've lost so much, It is trying to protect you. I'll exit now and let others give their advice. As a footnote: I myself felt out of control hungry today, a DD and rushed to the store to make a 2 quart size veggie soup which I posted on DD recipes #800 for 192 calories. My body was screaming for VOLUME and nourishment. Try to listen to what your body needs and address it wisely. You'll find how to do that without packing on the weight. You are doing fabulous - YOUR ATTITUDE ALONE WILL GET YOU TO MAINTENANCE. (Also - your med history has been rough on your body.) No fear - you will make it. I HAVE NO DOUBTS.

P.S. Wow - 6 sent replies already before me!!! You guys are fast typers.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #9
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Beverly, it sounds as though you've thought this through thoroughly and with great intelligence. That's more than I could do if I were frustrated, so good on you.
If your hunger is physical and not psychological (and it sounds purely physical from your description), I wonder about:
1. Going back to eating regular weight loss DD calories. I know it woke the monster before. Perhaps you've moved into a different phase.
2. Trusting your hunger and shifting into maintenance DDs while your body takes care of whatever business is creating the hunger.

Our bodies shift so much over the course of JUDDDing. They're like moving targets. We're lucky to have these options to try. (which makes me wonder about Muddding or fast5ing, too.)

All the best. I trust you'll find your way through and be teaching us what you learned before long. Your persistence is beautiful.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:35 PM   #10
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Beverly: OMGoodness! I'm so sorry this is happening to you! I don't have any great wisdom. For sure I know there are powerful forces in the body that start to react at a certain point in weight loss when the brain believes too many fat stores are "being plundered."

Some of the symptoms you mentioned are exactly what Dr. Dukan talks about in his book. He calls this the "Weight Rebound Effect" and I think he mentioned Grehlin and Cortisol (or maybe I read that part on line).

I'm inclined to agree with Lynne (good post BTW, Lynne) about you possibility eating at maintenance levels to satiate and calm down the Grehlin monstor (Gremlin) and stimulate Leptin.

Chris Powell talked about this in his book. He was working with a guy who started out at 400+ pounds and had lost a significant amount of weight. Then, for no reason, the weight loss stalled despite intense workouts and serious carb restriction and carb cycling which had been working like gangbusters before that. The scale started going up.

Chris said he gave the guy some unconventional advice. He told him to stop working out and stop trying to lose weight for 2 weeks. He told him to become a couch potato, play video games and eat pizza! The guy thought he was nuts and didn't want to do it. He also told him to stay away from the scale for that 2 week period.

The guy followed his advice and after that 2 week re-feed and relaxation period, they started up his diet and work out routine and the weight started falling off faster than before. I don't think I would be brave enough to do it on purpose, though on some of my extended vacations I have accidentally eaten with abandon for days at a time. When I got back into JUDD rotations after that, the weight I gained would come off quickly and take a few extra pounds with it.

Maybe our body goes into a panic mode and that's when the Weight Rebound Effect happens. It could be that eating more without stress calms down our brain and it realizes we are not running out of fat stores.

I have heard about the toxins in fat stores and that they need to be flushed out. I always assumed this happens by drinking lots and lots of water.

Keep reading, researching articles on the Web and hanging out here for the wise sage JUDDers to share their expertise. This is not the time to give up or throw up your hands in despair. Through perseverance and knowledge you will find answers and your body will realize it cannot win in the face of your determination.

We love you. And I just know you are going to continue to succeed as you find answers and stay the course.

Congratulations on being so close to the 100 pounds gone mark!! You are fabulous! Never give up! Never! Never! Never!
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #11
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Yes Fast5 is an excellent idea and you can eat a lot of calories if need be, on fast5.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:41 PM   #12
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I don't have any great advice to give you, Beverly, but I want to offer hugs to you and say that I love you, girlie!
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:45 PM   #13
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Thank you for your words of wisdom and support. You are the best!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Have you ever had the cortisol test? Or had your adrenals tested?
I know this may sound strange, but I just watched an episode about 3 months ago on "Mystery Diagnosis" (which I am obsessed with) about a girl whose cortisol was going bonkers and she had developed an extremely rare disorder similar or related to Cushing's Disease. She had always been a normal weight and then all of a sudden her weight began going up and very fast. If I remember right she gained 80 lbs in a year. Anyway, they found out and cured her issue and she is now living life as normal as before.

You can actually find the episode on ITunes, because if you go to the Discovery Channel website they will link you up to the proper ITunes to download.

Cortisol Levels Blood Test
HI and thank you Sunday! I didn't take the test, but read the book Adrenal Fatigue about a year and a half ago. I had the symptoms and a nutritionist had me on adrenal support supplements and an eating plan. It seemed to work as I started to sleep through the night like a baby, and I eliminated the main stress from my life- my job!! Maybe it is kicking in again although I am sleeping very well. I will check this out. Thanks so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I am so sorry Beverly, I have watched your ticker change and been thrilled for your success this far! You may want to email Dr. Johnson and tell him just like you have told us. He apparently answers all emails.
Thanks. You are so supportive. That is a really good idea to see if he has seen anything like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne2u View Post
Disclaimer: I am sort of new to JUDDD, but not new to IF, and not new to losing a lot of weight - I am actually 2 pounds away from 100 lbs. down from my highest recorded weight.

That said...

...if my body started fighting me like yours is, it would be time for me to "give" a little. I'd shift over to maintenance for a bit until my internal gremlins calmed down and restabilized.

I'm pretty sure you're doing all the right things. (It's not you.) But I really believe our internal homeostasis knows what it's doing, and there might be some reason you need to take a wee break, on your terms.

I'm not advocating eating everything in sight - just shifting into neutral until the internal seas change.

Lynne
Congratulations!! That may be really good advice and what I need to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
for your frustration



Your body doesn't "see" fat as unhealthy.
It's protection!!!

There's a weight-loss "guru" I adore named Jon Gabriel; and he says that our bodies want to keep us safe. But they can react in only two ways: get fat (keeps us safe in the long run) or get skinny (so we can get away from predators more quickly--keeps us safe in the short term). His book is called The Gabriel Method and he has lots of free info on his site...I don't have an answer for you, but maybe you'd find something helpful there. He talks a lot about cortisol, stress, toxins, etc.

How much milk thistle do you take? I get it by the pound and take a teaspoon at night. It tastes kind of like oatmeal to me, so I make a drink with cinnamon, cream, and SF pancake syrup.
Turmeric is also very good for the liver...have you been following the "Golden Milk" discussion over on the DE thread?
Silica supplementation (diatomaceous earth)
I actually have his book and forgot about that. You are correct to look at it as my body protecting me. Where do you get the milk thistle in bulk. That drink sounds really good.
I am taking Milk Thistle combined with a phosphatidylcholine complex, and was told to take less than normal Milk thistle because more is absorbed. I take doses of 120mg 3 times a day. i also take a product that has artichoke, dandelion, licorice, turmeric, and black pepper. Yes I have been following the great DE thread. I also have taken DE for years. You are a wealth of knowledge on supplements and I love reading your input. I may just up my dose of the tumeric/black pepper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeirasMom View Post
Beverly,

This actually sounds very much like what I was going through at the beginning of May (at my 5 month mark BTW). I wonder if that's a coincidence, or something to do with how we lose. I read and read and asked for advice, and decided to take a maintenance break. For me, I'm not sure if it was my medical issues influencing me, or diet fatigue, or just general blah feelings. I never really went up to maintenance numbers, but allow myself to use them if I need them.

I don't know if that would help you with your current situation, or not. For me, it gave me a wonderful sense of freedom and peace. I wasn't "pressured" anymore to lose, lose, lose. The thread I found most helpful was the "Why you need a break from WL" or something similar.

I don't have many of the other NSVs associated with sirtuins, so I can't explain why yours are fading. I do, however, firmly believe in the toxic fat thing. Whenever I start losing weight pretty quickly, I break out in hives. I have no other explanation for it except for the toxicity stored in my fat being released back into general circulation.

I'm sure someone will come along and give you some great advice (or they already have while I've been typing). All I can say is try to mix it up. Go into maintenance if you need to for a while. Have a blowout weekend, and jump right back into rotations. Just do something out of the norm and see what happens.



ETA: After I hit submit, I saw a whole bunch of responses. Aren't JUDDD BUDDDs the best?
That is fascinating to me. About the same point in time. I really believe in the toxic fat. Interesting that you mentioned that, but I am experiencing hives on both my forearms. How weird is that! It has been there consistently for a couple of weeks. I have been taking magnesium baths to help this. Yes, I must just be breaking down toxic fat and my body can't keep up. It is probably a good idea to switch to semi-maintenance. Thank you SO much for sharing that with me as it just lends further support to the toxic fat theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather View Post
Well Beverly - The others are all probably typing as we speak and will help you immensely but first off - IMHO - You have a super attitude and are a true hero in weight loss already. You are the EXPERT - we should be asking you the questions. You are a wealth of knowledge. I think all will agree that your body is resting up from all it's been through - needs that rest and you should probably switch to WLM - up your DD's to that or Maintenance while you regroup. You said, "Why my body would do that is beyond me because the fat is so unhealthy." However, Dr. J. says as well as other authorities that the body is programmed for survival foremost. You've lost so much, It is trying to protect you. I'll exit now and let others give their advice. As a footnote: I myself felt out of control hungry today, a DD and rushed to the store to make a 2 quart size veggie soup which I posted on DD recipes #800 for 192 calories. My body was screaming for VOLUME and nourishment. Try to listen to what your body needs and address it wisely. You'll find how to do that without packing on the weight. You are doing fabulous - YOUR ATTITUDE ALONE WILL GET YOU TO MAINTENANCE. (Also - your med history has been rough on your body.) No fear - you will make it. I HAVE NO DOUBTS.

P.S. Wow - 6 sent replies already before me!!! You guys are fast typers.
Thanks.That made me feel good. Listening to your body is great advice. It is trying to tell me something and I am trying to force it to do more. I guess I just need a chill pill for now, try to maintain and work on supporting my liver and kidneys !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Beverly, it sounds as though you've thought this through thoroughly and with great intelligence. That's more than I could do if I were frustrated, so good on you.
If your hunger is physical and not psychological (and it sounds purely physical from your description), I wonder about:
1. Going back to eating regular weight loss DD calories. I know it woke the monster before. Perhaps you've moved into a different phase.
2. Trusting your hunger and shifting into maintenance DDs while your body takes care of whatever business is creating the hunger.

Our bodies shift so much over the course of JUDDDing. They're like moving targets. We're lucky to have these options to try. (which makes me wonder about Muddding or fast5ing, too.)

All the best. I trust you'll find your way through and be teaching us what you learned before long. Your persistence is beautiful.
Thank you for your thoughtful advice. Yes I could try maintenance DD's.I think that is a good idea.

Okay I am off to take a magnesium bath, drink a cup of lemon water and take some more milk thistle.

I my JUDDD BUDDDs.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Yes Fast5 is an excellent idea and you can eat a lot of calories if need be, on fast5.
Another great idea!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredhead View Post
I don't have any great advice to give you, Beverly, but I want to offer hugs to you and say that I love you, girlie!
Ahhhh...my friend. You are always so supportive. Thanks for sending some my way.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:49 PM   #15
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And here are some threads/ideas that were mentioned:
Why your body wants a break from WL
Shake It Up, Baby! (for no loss/too slow loss/the diet-weary, etc.)

Last edited by piratejenny; 06-27-2012 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #16
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Thanks PJ! I was just on my way to search for and linkback those threads. You're the best!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #17
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i have no other words than hugs!!! i let my beast win and by win i gained back everything and then some....i'm sooo batteling every demon i own right now....hang in there, i'm hoping for you that it all passes quickly!! GOOD LUCK on finding the answers you need and the rest will fall into place!!
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #18
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I have nothing better to offer than the great suggestions already listed. My only thought is a possible food sensitivity. Did you start eating something new that could have had a "toxic" effect? At different times in my life different foods effected me differently. I don't count carbs anymore, but for some reason pancakes and french toast make me feel horrible,, but as much as I think I'll enjoy them on an UD, the aftermath is not worth it. However, you success has been fantastic and you do have a wonderful attitude. I've learned the weight loss has a mind of it's own and sometimes when I let go of the outcome a little whoosh comes to my rescue!
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #19
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Hi Beverly, I don't really have words of wisdom but your post reminded me of something I read a while back.(per-JUDDD diet search days). I was reading a book called "The 6 week cure for the Middle age Middle" and in chapter 6 iBook page 143, they were talking about how when we lose a lot of fat we release toxins into our blood stream and that the medications etc. that are stored in those fat cells circulate in our bodies and effect our metabolisms often affecting weight loss. They recommended giving blood as a way of reducing them in our bodies to reduce the quantities being restored in our remaining fat cells. I have no idea if this is what happens or not but it did sound on topic to what you were wondering about. The book is written by two Dr's Mary and Michael Eades who wrote "protein Power" as well. Great ideas from everyone on this thread. I am hoping things get back on track for you quickly. Please update on how things are going!
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:16 PM   #20
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Beverly I am so sorry you are having so many troubles right now. Firstly, our bodies are only capable of making new fat cells at certain times in our lives. When we are growing up, when we are pregnant. We cannot and do not make them most other times. Our fat cells take in fat and become larger or release fat and become smaller. You haven't mentioned your age but some of what your saying sounds like perhaps you could be going through menopause. If you are in that age group. It is a time of ridiculous hormonal imbalances with a lot of the symptoms you are describing.Have you tried putting your symptoms on goggle and seeing what comes up. A lot of the people on Mystery Diagnosis have actually diagnosed themselves that way believe it or not. Try to keep a stiff upper lip, this too shall pass.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:44 PM   #21
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Beverly!!!

First and foremost, have you seen a doctor? Sigh, it might not be easy explaining what is happening (and you might get a nasty lecture if the doctor is not keeping up with what is happening in IF and metabolism). But, just in case there is an underlying physical cause I encourage you to get checked.

Now, last March my weight loss rate dropped from about the same as yours to two pounds for the whole month. And NSVs started reducing. At the time I figured out I was consistently not eating as much as I thought I was on UDs.

So yes, I found one of what is probably several ways to stop sirtuin production...I suspect they stop when the body's level of stress exceeded a certain metabolic point.

SO, in April I ate every calorie I needed on UDs. Weight loss rate increased a teensy bit and the NSVs stayed gone. More experimentation led to my realizing I was basically doing JUDDD in the Fast-5 format. And that was putting too much stress on my body. I only eat breakfast (DD or UD) if my body insists. But on UD I need to eat about 500 cals before 02:00 PM.

Yep, I found another way (based on my metabolism) to turn off the sirtuin faucet.

Once I started eating UD lunch, my NSVs started creeping back but weight loss still crept along at about a pound a week.

In May I went on an opulent two week vacation. I either ate at maintenance levels or, most of the time, FD levels (not stuffed, but well over my calculated calories). No binging, always able to stop eating when I was satisfied, but....oh, that creme brulee! Three pounds gained on a cruise, not bad.

I came back and found my body was delighted to return to JUDDD. I quickly realized several things had changed: I needed to drop DD and UD calories, I needed to drop protein. A few quick adjustments and I am back to losing about two pounds/week.

Morale of this story:
I totally agree: I encourage you to start eating at maintenance levels for awhile. There can be magic in this. Also, look at your eating patterns on DD and UD. Also also, maybe your body needs something extra to deal with those released toxins - and I don't know how many carbs you are eating - but I suggest you test upping them a bit (in the form of veggies and unrefined carbs). Not much, but enough to shake things up a bit.

again dear. I always hold you in my heart.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

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Old 06-27-2012, 06:25 PM   #22
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Nancy NSV is what please?
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:40 PM   #23
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post
Beverly: OMGoodness! I'm so sorry this is happening to you! I don't have any great wisdom. For sure I know there are powerful forces in the body that start to react at a certain point in weight loss when the brain believes too many fat stores are "being plundered."

Some of the symptoms you mentioned are exactly what Dr. Dukan talks about in his book. He calls this the "Weight Rebound Effect" and I think he mentioned Grehlin and Cortisol (or maybe I read that part on line).

I'm inclined to agree with Lynne (good post BTW, Lynne) about you possibility eating at maintenance levels to satiate and calm down the Grehlin monstor (Gremlin) and stimulate Leptin.

Chris Powell talked about this in his book. He was working with a guy who started out at 400+ pounds and had lost a significant amount of weight. Then, for no reason, the weight loss stalled despite intense workouts and serious carb restriction and carb cycling which had been working like gangbusters before that. The scale started going up.

Chris said he gave the guy some unconventional advice. He told him to stop working out and stop trying to lose weight for 2 weeks. He told him to become a couch potato, play video games and eat pizza! The guy thought he was nuts and didn't want to do it. He also told him to stay away from the scale for that 2 week period.

The guy followed his advice and after that 2 week re-feed and relaxation period, they started up his diet and work out routine and the weight started falling off faster than before. I don't think I would be brave enough to do it on purpose, though on some of my extended vacations I have accidentally eaten with abandon for days at a time. When I got back into JUDD rotations after that, the weight I gained would come off quickly and take a few extra pounds with it.

Maybe our body goes into a panic mode and that's when the Weight Rebound Effect happens. It could be that eating more without stress calms down our brain and it realizes we are not running out of fat stores.

I have heard about the toxins in fat stores and that they need to be flushed out. I always assumed this happens by drinking lots and lots of water.

Keep reading, researching articles on the Web and hanging out here for the wise sage JUDDers to share their expertise. This is not the time to give up or throw up your hands in despair. Through perseverance and knowledge you will find answers and your body will realize it cannot win in the face of your determination.

We love you. And I just know you are going to continue to succeed as you find answers and stay the course.

Congratulations on being so close to the 100 pounds gone mark!! You are fabulous! Never give up! Never! Never! Never!
i don't know how I missed your wonderful post! Thank you for taking the time to write all that out. I need to get the Dukan book you reference- sounds like you have gotten some interesting info from that gook. Fascinating story you told. Now... I am tempted to sit on the couch with my feet up with a huge slab of pepperoni pizza in one hand and a beer in the other!! Repeat for two weeks! Okay, I would be scared to do that, but maybe it is like rebooting a computer. A metabolic reboot!! Food (literally) for thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Thanks PJ.Very interesting stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayleesa View Post
i have no other words than hugs!!! i let my beast win and by win i gained back everything and then some....i'm sooo batteling every demon i own right now....hang in there, i'm hoping for you that it all passes quickly!! GOOD LUCK on finding the answers you need and the rest will fall into place!!
Oh no!!! That is just awful!! PLEASE continue to battle those demons. I am right there with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly View Post
I have nothing better to offer than the great suggestions already listed. My only thought is a possible food sensitivity. Did you start eating something new that could have had a "toxic" effect? At different times in my life different foods effected me differently. I don't count carbs anymore, but for some reason pancakes and french toast make me feel horrible,, but as much as I think I'll enjoy them on an UD, the aftermath is not worth it. However, you success has been fantastic and you do have a wonderful attitude. I've learned the weight loss has a mind of it's own and sometimes when I let go of the outcome a little whoosh comes to my rescue!
Good thoughts. I haven't changed anything I have been eating, but like you said, sensitivities can happen at different times in your life! Thanks for your kind words of support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babsbabs View Post
Hi Beverly, I don't really have words of wisdom but your post reminded me of something I read a while back.(per-JUDDD diet search days). I was reading a book called "The 6 week cure for the Middle age Middle" and in chapter 6 iBook page 143, they were talking about how when we lose a lot of fat we release toxins into our blood stream and that the medications etc. that are stored in those fat cells circulate in our bodies and effect our metabolisms often affecting weight loss. They recommended giving blood as a way of reducing them in our bodies to reduce the quantities being restored in our remaining fat cells. I have no idea if this is what happens or not but it did sound on topic to what you were wondering about. The book is written by two Dr's Mary and Michael Eades who wrote "protein Power" as well. Great ideas from everyone on this thread. I am hoping things get back on track for you quickly. Please update on how things are going!
Yes, that is what I was referring too. VERY interesting about giving blood. I wonder if I gave blood if I would pass on all my toxicity to someone else! I am going to get that book. Thanks for that suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffabuff View Post
Beverly I am so sorry you are having so many troubles right now. Firstly, our bodies are only capable of making new fat cells at certain times in our lives. When we are growing up, when we are pregnant. We cannot and do not make them most other times. Our fat cells take in fat and become larger or release fat and become smaller. You haven't mentioned your age but some of what your saying sounds like perhaps you could be going through menopause. If you are in that age group. It is a time of ridiculous hormonal imbalances with a lot of the symptoms you are describing.Have you tried putting your symptoms on goggle and seeing what comes up. A lot of the people on Mystery Diagnosis have actually diagnosed themselves that way believe it or not. Try to keep a stiff upper lip, this too shall pass.
Vanessa
Thanks Vanessa. From my readings, the fat cell theory is a bit of a controversy. I was actually referencing the theories on fat cells as written by Byron Richards. It was from his article on leptin and his discussion on The Nature of Unfit Fat. I went back to reread what he had to say and he has some recommendations to support metabolic efficiency that I might add in.
You are so right about ridiculous hormonal imbalances, but I am on the other side of menopause. I am 59 and have been through that process (thank heaven) for about 6 years now. I am going to have to watch that show on Mystery Diagnosis. Sounds fascinating. I have tried googling the symptoms, but there are so many things that come up. Thanks for your encouragement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Beverly!!!

First and foremost, have you seen a doctor? Sigh, it might not be easy explaining what is happening (and you might get a nasty lecture if the doctor is not keeping up with what is happening in IF and metabolism). But, just in case there is an underlying physical cause I encourage you to get checked.

Now, last March my weight loss rate dropped from about the same as yours to two pounds for the whole month. And NSVs started reducing. At the time I figured out I was consistently not eating as much as I thought I was on UDs.

So yes, I found one of what is probably several ways to stop sirtuin production...I suspect they stop when the body's level of stress exceeded a certain metabolic point.

SO, in April I ate every calorie I needed on UDs. Weight loss rate increased a teensy bit and the NSVs stayed gone. More experimentation led to my realizing I was basically doing JUDDD in the Fast-5 format. And that was putting too much stress on my body. I only eat breakfast (DD or UD) if my body insists. But on UD I need to eat about 500 cals before 02:00 PM.

Yep, I found another way (based on my metabolism) to turn off the sirtuin faucet.

Once I started eating UD lunch, my NSVs started creeping back but weight loss still crept along at about a pound a week.

In May I went on an opulent two week vacation. I either ate at maintenance levels or, most of the time, FD levels (not stuffed, but well over my calculated calories). No binging, always able to stop eating when I was satisfied, but....oh, that creme brulee! Three pounds gained on a cruise, not bad.

I came back and found my body was delighted to return to JUDDD. I quickly realized several things had changed: I needed to drop DD and UD calories, I needed to drop protein. A few quick adjustments and I am back to losing about two pounds/week.

Morale of this story:
I totally agree: I encourage you to start eating at maintenance levels for awhile. There can be magic in this. Also, look at your eating patterns on DD and UD. Also also, maybe your body needs something extra to deal with those released toxins - and I don't know how many carbs you are eating - but I suggest you test upping them a bit (in the form of veggies and unrefined carbs). Not much, but enough to shake things up a bit.

again dear. I always hold you in my heart.
Sweet Nancy- thanks for your input. Not only are we chocolate buddies, but I love me some creme brulee!! I was eating around 90-100 grams of carbs, but I did decrease it in case they were triggering my hunger. I think I am going to go the maintenance route as many have suggested and give the body a rest. My reading on this toxic fat thing was suggesting increasing fiber and magnesium and increased antioxidants. I did just have a physical two months ago with all my labwork, colonoscopy (due to Crohn's) and all seems in order (knock on wood) other than too high LDL. I was concerned that my Crohn's could be flaring as we all know a sick gut causes inflammation all over the body and that causes severe stress to the body and impacts hormones and inhibits weight loss etc. But thank heaven I appear to still be in remission. I can try increasing the good carbs a bit and see if it gives me a kick start. Thanks for chiming in here with your experiences! We really do need to experiment with our bodies and I am a believer in shaking things up!

You all have such great ideas and excellent support!

Last edited by sungoddess; 06-27-2012 at 06:48 PM..
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:19 AM   #25
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What wonderful overwhealming responses you have gotten! I just want you to know I sure care about you too. Can't imagine adding to the great advice already offered. Stay strong and never give up. It will be soooo worth it.

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Old 06-28-2012, 01:59 AM   #26
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Oh, I am glad you just had a physical! That is a relief.

You are so smart and so thoughtful, I suspect anything I suggest you have already investigated. The food allergy idea is very thought-provoking and sounds like a great exploratory path to follow. I ran an internet search on anti-inflammatory eating. I am wondering if eating that woe at maintenance levels might help you. You have also sparked my curiosity about natural chelation via food/supplements.

Anyway, I am really looking forward to hearing what eating at maintenance levels does.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post

I came back and found my body was delighted to return to JUDDD. I quickly realized several things had changed: I needed to drop DD and UD calories, I needed to drop protein. A few quick adjustments and I am back to losing about two pounds/week..
Hey Nancy, how did you "quickly realize" that you needed to drop UD and DD calories, and drop protein????? Were there physical signs and symptoms? I'd love to hear, and learn.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:39 AM   #28
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Kristin, ever since I started this latest weight loss journey, I have been kind of fixated on how my body reacts to foods. So the primary thing that triggered revamping my menu was just a feeling, after eating, that something was not as right as it should be. That one is hard to pinpoint. The concrete reasons were: (1) not having as much energy as I have come to expect, and (2) bounces over two pounds (yes, the bouncing weight-ball kept decreasing). These days, unless I consciously eat too much on an UD, my bounces are measured in ounces. The protein thing was a feeling...as if my body was screaming "That was 64 cals of protein! Do you KNOW how much spinach we could have eaten for 64 cals???? Dang it, I want fiber and carbs!!"
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:48 AM   #29
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Wow -- I just read this and it sounds so similar to something I have just been experiencing! I tried JUDDD after coming of my most recent round of hcg p2, and I was absolutely ravenous! (I see you did hcg in the past, from your stats).

I wish I had an answer for you -- it sounds like many of the above answers are good ones! All I can say is that I really understand what you are saying -- I've had crazy hunger in p3 every time I've tried it That is why JUDDD appeals to me so much -- but my body was screaming EAT -- and it was far worse doing JUDDD than it was on straight p2, as counter-intuitive as that seems.

I gather this is pretty common for people who go low calorie for too long, and then start eating more. (And I did some crazy long rounds of p2!)

I suspect you are right that it is hormonally driven -- it seems much more biological than psychological to me -- though why it would happen to you after JUDDDing successfully for a long while is beyond me.

My gut feeling is that the eat more and rest more approach is probably right on the mark -- though I am not doing that, lol! I am going to eat more, though ... I decided to just go straight p3/Atkins, and not count calories for a while, and see if it calms the eating monster down. I'm working out a lot, and I think my body just couldn't handle the idea of working out that hard and restricting calories at the same time.

I don't know if there's much similarity to our overall situations, but I do suspect that both are being caused by the body's systems activating a hunger signal of some sort that is really difficult to over-ride. (I also suspect I have adrenal fatigue -- and the fact that I am writing this post at nearly 3 am supports that hunch -- terrible insomnia right now!)

I wish you all the best in finding a solution!!!!!!
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:52 AM   #30
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I wanted to add that when my body started screaming for food (this has happened before) -- my overall inflammation levels also went sky high -- body pain increased, sleep patterns went wacky, water retention was crazy -- all of that. I have an inflammatory condition (chronic Lyme disease) so I battle inflammation all the time -- but generally a clean diet and adequate rest keep in somewhat under control.

The ravenous hunger and the increase in inflammation tend to occur at the same exact times.

Again, I have no idea how pertinent this is, or is not, to your situation -- but I thought I'd throw it out there since it sounds possible that our bodies are doing something similar...
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