Oh wise and wonderful JUDDD BUDDDs...

[Joyjoy]

This is so interesting! Thanks for this discussion, Beverly. I hope it results in great things for you.
Okay, Nancy, one more question (!) I think I get the screaming for spinach thing with the protein.
Re: the calorie levels, did you sense you'd have more energy by decreasing them or were your calorie tweaks determined only by the bounce issue?
Sorry to focus on such minutiae, but I think there's a lot to learn, here.

[piratejenny]

sungoddess--

Where do you get the milk thistle in bulk.

I got powdered milk thistle from z natural foods (website).

[sterlinggirl]

Wow i dont know how i missed this post.. to you What you have done so far is amazing!~ and i pray that you find the solution to your issue.. I have no advise, but have learned alot by reading the advise from every one here that responded.. you are loved by all and admired by many~ (including me)

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by gotitnow

What wonderful overwhealming responses you have gotten! I just want you to know I sure care about you too. Can't imagine adding to the great advice already offered. Stay strong and never give up. It will be soooo worth it.

Phyl

It is always amazing to me how the love and support we get from our JUDDD BUDDDs can pick us up from the darkest of days and make our hearts sing. Knowing that people are out there who care and support you in your weight loss journey is worth more than its weight in gold. Thank you Phyl!

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Wow -- I just read this and it sounds so similar to something I have just been experiencing! I tried JUDDD after coming of my most recent round of hcg p2, and I was absolutely ravenous! (I see you did hcg in the past, from your stats).

I wish I had an answer for you -- it sounds like many of the above answers are good ones! All I can say is that I really understand what you are saying -- I've had crazy hunger in p3 every time I've tried it That is why JUDDD appeals to me so much -- but my body was screaming EAT -- and it was far worse doing JUDDD than it was on straight p2, as counter-intuitive as that seems.

I gather this is pretty common for people who go low calorie for too long, and then start eating more. (And I did some crazy long rounds of p2!)

I suspect you are right that it is hormonally driven -- it seems much more biological than psychological to me -- though why it would happen to you after JUDDDing successfully for a long while is beyond me.

My gut feeling is that the eat more and rest more approach is probably right on the mark -- though I am not doing that, lol! I am going to eat more, though ... I decided to just go straight p3/Atkins, and not count calories for a while, and see if it calms the eating monster down. I'm working out a lot, and I think my body just couldn't handle the idea of working out that hard and restricting calories at the same time.

I don't know if there's much similarity to our overall situations, but I do suspect that both are being caused by the body's systems activating a hunger signal of some sort that is really difficult to over-ride. (I also suspect I have adrenal fatigue -- and the fact that I am writing this post at nearly 3 am supports that hunch -- terrible insomnia right now!)

I wish you all the best in finding a solution!!!!!!

I followed your story over on the DE thread and find it fascinating. Your whole process of healing your gut is most intriguing to me as that is a process I am still going through. I agree the hunger is a hormonal thing because of its nature. The hunger is not like the types I normally feel. It isn't a psychological hunger and it is more than simple gnawing hunger pains. It can be compelling in nature and completely takes over every thought. It is like some primal drive! Keep us posted on how it is going for you. Insomnia can be a living h@!!. I hated every minute of it when I was going through it. I wish you restful nights of deep sleep!

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I wanted to add that when my body started screaming for food (this has happened before) -- my overall inflammation levels also went sky high -- body pain increased, sleep patterns went wacky, water retention was crazy -- all of that. I have an inflammatory condition (chronic Lyme disease) so I battle inflammation all the time -- but generally a clean diet and adequate rest keep in somewhat under control.

The ravenous hunger and the increase in inflammation tend to occur at the same exact times.

Again, I have no idea how pertinent this is, or is not, to your situation -- but I thought I'd throw it out there since it sounds possible that our bodies are doing something similar...

YES! I agree. The two seem hand in hand. It is interesting that allergy season has started for me and that might be part of the issue. Every time allergy season comes, I tend to get a flare in my gut and my inflammation soars. That may be stressing my body with inflammation as well. Interesting connection- thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Joyjoy

This is so interesting! Thanks for this discussion, Beverly. I hope it results in great things for you.
Okay, Nancy, one more question (!) I think I get the screaming for spinach thing with the protein.
Re: the calorie levels, did you sense you'd have more energy by decreasing them or were your calorie tweaks determined only by the bounce issue?
Sorry to focus on such minutiae, but I think there's a lot to learn, here.

Aren't these discussions wonderful Joyjoy? I always learn so much and my mind is opened to so many other considerations. I love to read how people adapt and tweak the plans to work for them. It is very important to tune in to our bodies and listen to what they are saying. I do believe that intuitively we know how to heal ourselves if we can only hear what our bodies are saying.

Originally Posted by piratejenny

sungoddess--


I got powdered milk thistle from z natural foods (website).

Thanks PJ. I am going to check that out!

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

Wow i dont know how i missed this post.. to you What you have done so far is amazing!~ and i pray that you find the solution to your issue.. I have no advise, but have learned alot by reading the advise from every one here that responded.. you are loved by all and admired by many~ (including me)

Oh Kimberly, that is so sweet. That really lifted my spirits so much. Thank you.


The best thing that came from this is I feel emotionally lifted and ready to charge forward again. In case anyone ever wonders if their posts make a difference, if anyone is really impacted by them, trust me, they are! It is sometimes hard to believe that a group of people you have never met in person can really care, but they do. I know how each story a person shares impacts me as an individual. I truly feel joy when we celebrate the successes and feel the pains when people are struggling or feeling sad. We travel together on a journey of a common bond-- one filled with emotions and deep seated feelings. That emotional journey links us in a way that is incredibly bonding. It is like you feel a sea of cyber arms come and lift you up when the world is getting you down. For that, I thank all of you. What a spectacular group of intelligent, caring, passionate, articulate people you all are.

[Yam-Yam]

Beverly: Just read your post and I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Whoa. Everything is blurry. I'm leaking now!

That was the most heartfelt, sweetest thing I've ever read on the whole LCF site! I you sweet JUDD Budd!!

Yam-Yam

Starting weight 8/1/11 = 230
Current weight 6/28/12 = 189
Goal weight...................180

Getting closer and closer!

Woo-Hoo! I'm 41 pounds down!!!

[sunday]

Thank you Beverly for keeping us uplifted as well! You have always inspired me and many others!

[sophiethecat]

Beverly, just wanted to give big You're inspiring and dear to me and everyone here - we care and you.

[Joyjoy]

Beverly, every day this board teaches me something about how much we need to be lifted up, how rarely we ask for help with that, and how good it feels to get and give support. Thanks for everything. I hope it energizes you going forward.

[lynne2u]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

The best thing that came from this is I feel emotionally lifted and ready to charge forward again. In case anyone ever wonders if their posts make a difference, if anyone is really impacted by them, trust me, they are! It is sometimes hard to believe that a group of people you have never met in person can really care, but they do. I know how each story a person shares impacts me as an individual. I truly feel joy when we celebrate the successes and feel the pains when people are struggling or feeling sad. We travel together on a journey of a common bond-- one filled with emotions and deep seated feelings. That emotional journey links us in a way that is incredibly bonding. It is like you feel a sea of cyber arms come and lift you up when the world is getting you down. For that, I thank all of you. What a spectacular group of intelligent, caring, passionate, articulate people you all are.

Cheers to that *toasting with sparkling water*!

Thank you all for the warm welcome, btw. I don't post over here usually because I'm part of a challenge too and I have to keep my Internet time under control or I won't get any work done.

Thinking about this more last night, I thought I'd mention something else for your consideration, Beverly, nobody's said this yet...

Fat burning and fat storage have two basically different hormonal environments - with fat storage dominated by insulin (Gary Taubes)...right? I think of these as metabolism gears - forward and reverse.

I've noticed that programs like CAD, Fast Five, and JUDDD have - as written - included a period of time where we can eat carbs but we get around the insulin monster in various ways.

Well...I've noticed too that I don't lose weight (or lose my ravenous insulin appetite) on these plans as written. To avoid the tendency toward ravenousness, carb creep, and stalls, I also have to limit carbs - especially during the fasting part (but not only).

It's as if my metabolism gets "stuck in reverse" more easily than normal people's, it doesn't shift readily back and forth - and if so, it may be true of a lot of us folks that ended up here at LCF.

Just another possibility, I guess. I'm so glad you're feeling hopeful and encouraged!

Lynne

[DD80]

I'm reading this thread with much interest. The hunger monster lives in my back pocket! I've been maintaining for a few months because it is ovewhelming. That little monster sucks...

[DD80]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I wanted to add that when my body started screaming for food (this has happened before) -- my overall inflammation levels also went sky high -- body pain increased, sleep patterns went wacky, water retention was crazy -- all of that. I have an inflammatory condition (chronic Lyme disease) so I battle inflammation all the time -- but generally a clean diet and adequate rest keep in somewhat under control.

The ravenous hunger and the increase in inflammation tend to occur at the same exact times.

Again, I have no idea how pertinent this is, or is not, to your situation -- but I thought I'd throw it out there since it sounds possible that our bodies are doing something similar...

This is very interesting to me. I have the same issue. And it is a horrible cycle since when I'm hungrier and get weird cravings, it fuels the inflammation. Add in thyroid, psoriasis, and bad allergies, and I'm a mess... I have to think about this.

Also, in regards to insomnia. Check your caffeine intake. It affects me BIGtime.

[sorenkkg]

Bev! my friend, this too shall pass.

One thing I didn't see anywhere on this page of fabulous support and answers is-- estrogen.

It's one of the nasties (? depends on your perspective I guess) that gets packed AWAY when we are gaining weight and have fat cells just hanging around absorbing stuff, and it is RELEASED when we lose weight.

I just wanted you to consider this, in the hunger issue specifically. Since it's not being released at a regular pace, or in some, say, "cycle" ... I have to wonder how much it's messing with your hunger, emotions, and who knows what else?

I mention this b/c I'm feeling it-- when I'm PMS, I'm WAY hungrier than any other time. When I'm TOM, I can have really good, non-hungry DDs.

My Dr pointed this out to me (about the hormone disappearing into the fat) and I already knew about it reappearing when you lose, but never made the connection till a month or so ago.

So-- not that you have any control over this, but maybe, as part of shaking things up a bit, if you are hungry, eat a bit?
Or at the very least, know that you're not mentally defective or weak in any way, and these feelings are normal and actually GOOD b/c it means you are losing weight.

again, and you know you will get through this rough patch. What's that saying about things being hard? Being fat is hard, exercise is hard, dieting is hard, pick your hard?
I'd rather be suffering the effects of fat melting off my body in GOBS than any other kind of trouble I could have.

S.

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by Yam-Yam

Beverly: Just read your post and I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Whoa. Everything is blurry. I'm leaking now!

That was the most heartfelt, sweetest thing I've ever read on the whole LCF site! I you sweet JUDD Budd!!

Originally Posted by sunday

Thank you Beverly for keeping us uplifted as well! You have always inspired me and many others!

Originally Posted by sophiethecat

Beverly, just wanted to give big You're inspiring and dear to me and everyone here - we care and you.

Thanks. It was following your posts that got me started on JUDDD. Thanks for YOUR inspiration.

Originally Posted by Joyjoy

Beverly, every day this board teaches me something about how much we need to be lifted up, how rarely we ask for help with that, and how good it feels to get and give support. Thanks for everything. I hope it energizes you going forward.

That is so true. Sometimes I hate to ask but when I do, it feels awesome.

Originally Posted by lynne2u

Cheers to that *toasting with sparkling water*!

Thank you all for the warm welcome, btw. I don't post over here usually because I'm part of a challenge too and I have to keep my Internet time under control or I won't get any work done.

Thinking about this more last night, I thought I'd mention something else for your consideration, Beverly, nobody's said this yet...

Fat burning and fat storage have two basically different hormonal environments - with fat storage dominated by insulin (Gary Taubes)...right? I think of these as metabolism gears - forward and reverse.

I've noticed that programs like CAD, Fast Five, and JUDDD have - as written - included a period of time where we can eat carbs but we get around the insulin monster in various ways.

Well...I've noticed too that I don't lose weight (or lose my ravenous insulin appetite) on these plans as written. To avoid the tendency toward ravenousness, carb creep, and stalls, I also have to limit carbs - especially during the fasting part (but not only).

It's as if my metabolism gets "stuck in reverse" more easily than normal people's, it doesn't shift readily back and forth - and if so, it may be true of a lot of us folks that ended up here at LCF.

Just another possibility, I guess. I'm so glad you're feeling hopeful and encouraged!

Lynne

Welcome Lynne. Hope you can post more. Your post makes lots of sense. I do need to watch carb levels. And some carbs, once I start, really make me ravenous. But I am doing my best to avoid those trigger foods!

Originally Posted by DD80

I'm reading this thread with much interest. The hunger monster lives in my back pocket! I've been maintaining for a few months because it is ovewhelming. That little monster sucks...

I guess there is a whole tribe of those stupid monsters since they seem to be hanging around a few of us!!

Originally Posted by DD80

This is very interesting to me. I have the same issue. And it is a horrible cycle since when I'm hungrier and get weird cravings, it fuels the inflammation. Add in thyroid, psoriasis, and bad allergies, and I'm a mess... I have to think about this.

Also, in regards to insomnia. Check your caffeine intake. It affects me BIGtime.

It is a horrid cycle isn't it. Thank heaven I am not experiencing insomnia any more, but yes, caffeine could really impact me.

Originally Posted by sorenkkg

Bev! my friend, this too shall pass.

One thing I didn't see anywhere on this page of fabulous support and answers is-- estrogen.

It's one of the nasties (? depends on your perspective I guess) that gets packed AWAY when we are gaining weight and have fat cells just hanging around absorbing stuff, and it is RELEASED when we lose weight.

I just wanted you to consider this, in the hunger issue specifically. Since it's not being released at a regular pace, or in some, say, "cycle" ... I have to wonder how much it's messing with your hunger, emotions, and who knows what else?

I mention this b/c I'm feeling it-- when I'm PMS, I'm WAY hungrier than any other time. When I'm TOM, I can have really good, non-hungry DDs.

My Dr pointed this out to me (about the hormone disappearing into the fat) and I already knew about it reappearing when you lose, but never made the connection till a month or so ago.

So-- not that you have any control over this, but maybe, as part of shaking things up a bit, if you are hungry, eat a bit?
Or at the very least, know that you're not mentally defective or weak in any way, and these feelings are normal and actually GOOD b/c it means you are losing weight.

again, and you know you will get through this rough patch. What's that saying about things being hard? Being fat is hard, exercise is hard, dieting is hard, pick your hard?
I'd rather be suffering the effects of fat melting off my body in GOBS than any other kind of trouble I could have.

S.

Ahhh yes- that makes complete sense. Not only are toxins stored in fat, but estrogen is too. I remember my doctor telling me I was going to breeze through menopause because I was so packed with estrogen in my fat!! He is no longer my doctor. Yes, yes you are so right. Estrogen stimulates the appetite, makes you crave sweets, and make you gain weight. And it makes sense that a hunger urge so strong and so powerful is due to hormones- whichever ones they may be. There is something in me that doesn't want to give in to them though. I want to be able to tough it out. But I see it is just more powerful than me at times, so yes, when I feel it, I will eat something healthy. Very thought provoking. I love that saying you wrote too!! So true.

[gotitnow]

Oh my goodness. from every single bit of ALL of this.^^^^

Phyl

[sungoddess]

update

It’s a Party and JUDDD BUDDDS are invited!!

I did it! I hit 100 pounds!! Okay, it’s not the first time, but I am so excited. And 44 pounds lost on JUDDD!! Woo hoo!!!!!

Just an update to what has happened. A relative of mine who has some degree in natural nutrition used to work with me on helping my IBD. I told him what was happening and he said I know this is nuts, but just try this suggestion of mine.

He was talking about inflammation and fat cells etc. and reminded me that fat cells, (one more time) are NOT little, passive, quiet, calorie storage devices.They perversely turn into active endocrine glands. (right on Soren). They spew out inflammatory markers that set off inflammation all over your body.You just have to biopsy fat tissue and look at it under the microscope to see.

JCI - Obesity-induced inflammatory changes in adipose tissue

He told me to do a fat fast for 2 days and 3x a day to drink water with the juice of a fresh lemon and a tablespoon of liquid chlorophyll in each glass. Also two 8 ounce glasses of coconut WATER (not the milk) on each of the days.

I did it and the hunger beast stopped like magic and this morning I was down 5 pounds!!

It might have been just my time for a whoosh, but it could have been his suggestion too. Who knows? There are lots of claimed benefits to chlorophyll.

Chlorophyll reduces inflammation.
Chlorophyll has the power to regenerate our bodies at the molecular and cellular level and is known to help cleanse the body, fight infection, help heal wounds, and promote the health of the circulatory, digestive, immune, and detoxification systems.
Chlorophyll consumption increases the number of red blood cells and, therefore, increase oxygen utilization by the body.
Chlorophyll also reduces the binding of carcinogens to DNA in the liver and other organs. It also breaks down calcium oxalate stones for elimination, which are created by the body for the purpose of neutralizing and disposing of excess acid.

Anti Carcinogenic: Chlorophyll protects against a whole host of carcinogens found in fungus-laden foods such as nuts and grains, the toxins from cooked meats, and air-borne carcinogens (from pollution). It blocks the metabolism in the body of harmful chemicals known as procarcinogens that damage DNA. Studies published in the journals Carcinogenesis and Food and Chemical Toxicology clearly display that chlorophyll inhibits carcinogenesis.

Antioxidant & Anti-inflammatory: containing high levels of the vitamins A, C and E, chlorophyll has strong antioxidant capacity and has also been found to help reduce inflammation.

Chelation of Heavy Metals: chlorophyll is one of the most important chelates in nature. It’s ability to bind to and remove toxic heavy metals such as mercury makes it an extremely powerful healer.

Summary:
• Prevents absorption of toxic carcinogens by the body
• Heavy metal detoxification
• Assists immune system function
• Increased energy
• Neutralises pH levels in the body
• Antioxidant
• Increases oxygen levels in the blood
• Anti-inflammatory
• Anti-bacterial properties
• Anti-aging
• Assists liver function
• Purifies & fortifies the blood
• Improves circulation
• Regularizes secretion glands functioning
• Reduces risk of illnesses & infections
• Clear complexion
• Cleanses the liver & colon
• Assimilates calcium
• Activates enzymes to produce vitamins E, K and A.

I don’t want to sound like Dr Oz here, with some kind of miracle. Like I said, my body might have dropped this any way, although I have never had a whoosh like that before. But the hungry monster left ( at least for now), my joints aren't aching this morning, I have more energy again, and my weight dropped- finally. I hope it stays down. I am excited!! Thanks to you all for getting me through this. I know to come and ask for support here next time this happens.THANK YOU!

[lynne2u]

Wow!! Congratulations to you, 100 pounds is such an accomplishment!!



Thank you so much for posting the inflammation stuff (and the cure!). I had heard about the active endocrine aspect of fat cells, but nothing on what to DO about it!!

Cheers!
Lynne

[Joyjoy]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!! SO happy for you!!!!!!
(now a newbie question: does fat fast mean no fat or only fat?)

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by Joyjoy

Yay!!!!!!!!!!! SO happy for you!!!!!!
(now a newbie question: does fat fast mean no fat or only fat?)

It is an old Atkins thing to break through metabolic resistance. You eat 90% fat. Cream cheese, macadamia nuts, egg yolk with mayo, etc. It sounds disgusting, but it isn't bad.

[Joyjoy]

Sounds like heaven to me. I may give it a whirl.

[sungoddess]

google : Atkins Fat Fast – Breaking A Low Carb Weight Loss Stall Carbsmart

There is an article about it. Lots of info on the internet about it. I did it a bit differently than listed. I ate fat to my up day calories one day and to 500 calories on my down day. (you don't get much fat for 500 calories!). Oh and I had bacon too.

[piratejenny]

Cool for you, Beverly!!!

PS--I have a bottle of chlorophyll; I'm going to start taking it!!!

[sunday]

Woohoo Beverly! 100 lbs is definitely a reason to PARTY ! I am celebrating with you today!

I have only tried the fat fast once when I did the egg fast and did not get the results that I have heard others post, but I did lose 1.5 lbs.

I will try this the next time I get stalled out. One question, out of curiosity, wouldn't the fat fast also work doing as it is written up to the 1200 calories for both UD & DD? Only reason I ask, is that 1200 calories is Dr. A's recommendation. You could then go back to rotation after a couple of 1200 calories days of FF?

[Jbinme]

Woohoo! So happy for you!
Is chlorophyll easy to find?

[sophiethecat]

WTG, Beverly!!! Big congratulations to you, my bud!

[amlyjo]

Wow. What an awesome thread. I just sat here and sllllooooowwwly read through the whole thing absorbing and learning and thinking and going AH-HA!

This should be a sticky thread. So I will at least bookmark it. So much support and love. So much great information!

I especially thank who? Soren? for the estrogen connection. I am probably perimenopausal at almost 45, definitely hypothyroid, and can see that I likely will have toxins and estrogen coming out as I lose. I don't think I am stalled already - just need to stick with the plan a bit better! But I think this thread is so invaluable.

Much love and to you all for your wisdom.

[amlyjo]

Originally Posted by Jbinme

Woohoo! So happy for you!
Is chlorophyll easy to find?

Janette, I think if you have a Natural Grocers, Sprouts, or Whole Foods near you you should be able to find it. I remember seeing it at Sprouts. I think I will go get some today. I can't load up on too many supplements as they are very expensive, but that list was very impressive!

[GME]

Wow. That is great to hear. I have hunger issues too and I have chlorophyll in my cupboard right now!

I bought it because it is supposed to help with the oxygenation of your blood. I had been running for a couple of years when all of a sudden I would get short of breath very quickly. I went to my doctor (a runner too, so I really expected more from him) and got the "as we get older" speech.

It didn't help much with that, but I will go back to taking it if it may help with the hunger. I thought about a fat fast type DD before I read your post, but decided to go with eggs since that would be considerably more food. Maybe I'll do a fat fast UD and see how it rolls from there. I'll need to get some coconut water, but it is super popular here now and it's everywhere. I have to get this hunger under control or I'll never make it.

It is so wonderful to hear about everyone else's experiences!

[mykidsteacher]

So glad you broke through! And congrats on 100+ pounds gone!

Just wanted to share a couple things from my visit with my naturopath this week.

In Feb I was diagnosed with allergies to milk, eggs, sunflower, garlic, and cashew. Prior to this, I'd had a cholesterol screen and it was high. I removed the allergy foods and was just retested, and saw a 40 point drop in my total cholesterol (my hdl actually went up 2 points, so the drop was completely reflected in ldl).

My understanding on why this happens was--eating foods that you are sensitive/intolerant of/allergic to causes inflammation in the body. Inflammation is a signal that there is damage that needs repair. Cholesterol is the building block for every cell in your body, so when repair is needed, the liver produces cholesterol and sends it out to do it's work. (as an aside, inflammation also causes damage to arteries, which then attract cholesterol as bandaids to fix the damage, and this is how clots form. No damage, no clots). Removing those foods reduced my inflammation (as was evidenced by the values on my crp and sed numbers), thus reducing the NEED for the cholesterol, so the liver shut down production.

With the inflammation symptoms you were experiencing along with the hunger, I'd suggest you give some thought to food allergy testing.

2) I mentioned my JUDDD woe and he had no problem with the calorie cycling (I follow a primal woe with juddd). But I had been fasting on my DD's until lunch, and he said he'd prefer I not do that (even though he thinks IF is a great idea for healthy people). I am dealing with healing adrenal exhaustion, however. Fasting puts an additional load on the adrenals in this way--when blood sugar falls, and there is no food coming in to bring it up, the adrenals release cortisol, which signals the liver to release glycogen which is converted to glucose.

So if you are dealing with a bit of adrenal fatigue, fasting may be exacerbating the issue, and if your adrenals are seriously exhausted, you may not be able to produce what you need to even release the glycogen stores to feed your cells--so they are well and truly starving.

Just my thoughts from what I learned this week. I'm having a protein shake for breakfast on my dd's now to see how that goes.

[minimonkey]

Wow, that is WONDERFUL news! So glad you found a solution, and I hope it works long term! Thanks so much for posting this -- it may be helpful to some of the rest of us, as well.

[Jbinme]

Originally Posted by amlyjo

Janette, I think if you have a Natural Grocers, Sprouts, or Whole Foods near you you should be able to find it. I remember seeing it at Sprouts. I think I will go get some today. I can't load up on too many supplements as they are very expensive, but that list was very impressive!

Thanks! I'll be looking into it.