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Old 06-24-2012, 11:59 AM   #1
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How many are doing MDs?

Just curious how many out there are doing a MD? It seems like a lot of people are doing MWF as DD so I figure it must be a few. I read somewhere that you slow your weight loss doing a MD per week. That makes sense. And I read somewhere that you shouldn't do a DD after a MD. I don't understand what difference that makes? I would love to hear how the rest of you are incorporating MDs into your plan.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #2
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I've only used one in 6 months of JUDDDing. Some do okay with them, some stall or lose very slowly. YMMV.

The reason for doing a MD after a DD is that you then have an UD to fuel your next DD. It stands to reason if you have a MD then a DD, you may be setting yourself up for a hungry DD by not being well fueled.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:24 PM   #3
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I had to do a few in the beginning, but I really would have preferred to not go that route. I think I had to add too many in when I was just learning the ropes. Now that I look back on it, some of the MD were really not MD, but a true DD, I just didn't realize that I could do a 35 or 45% when necessary.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:41 PM   #4
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I do exactly that; MWF DD's and throw in a MD on the weekend. That does mean that a DD and MD are side by side. Not a problem.

I am more inclined to avoid 2 UD's. But 2 DD's would be awful so the MD works well.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:29 PM   #5
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I have an MD every Friday, just because of my family dynamics and religious obligations (yes, there are rules about how much you have to eat over the weekend) but I truly feel it is the most challenging day for me.

DDs are easy. I have the same few foods that tide me over and keep me full.

UDs are a bit more difficult because I could fly off the handle is I'm not careful about my numbers, which I have started counting due to necessity , but by the MD is the hardest for me.

Since it comes after Thursday's DD, I often wake up hungry, and though I want to save almost all my calories for the Sabbath meal in the evening, I am hungry...and I often find myself derailed by that. Unfortunately, I don't see a way out of it, and I'll just have to be more careful, regulate myself better, and stock up on low-cal nosh to have around for my Fridays.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:11 PM   #6
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Dr. J mentions the in between days in the back of the book in the question and answer section so he does not cover it in the main part of the book. It almost seems like an after thought. He also said that for some people the in between days were just another stressor.
I tried one MD and it messed my mind up so much I will never do another. If I have an evening activity I just fast until the event and eat conservatively. Works for me.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:16 PM   #7
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Dr. J mentions the in between days in the back of the book in the question and answer section so he does not cover it in the main part of the book. It almost seems like an after thought. He also said that for some people the in between days were just another stressor.
I tried one MD and it messed my mind up so much I will never do another. If I have an evening activity I just fast until the event and eat conservatively. Works for me.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
Dr. J mentions the in between days in the back of the book in the question and answer section so he does not cover it in the main part of the book. It almost seems like an after thought. He also said that for some people the in between days were just another stressor.
I tried one MD and it messed my mind up so much I will never do another. If I have an evening activity I just fast until the event and eat conservatively. Works for me.
Im with you, i think it would mess with my head to. If i dont adhere to something properly, i would fail so id rather not set myself up for that.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:33 PM   #9
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I'd happily do MDs if I felt it was the only way I could do Juddd, for sure. I've been fortunate enough that despite whacks of travel and social occasions, I've continued to feel best by doing the straight rotation. I just love the simplicity of it. If today is up, tomorrow is down. Never gets more complicated than that. I have had to learn to load calories toward the end of the day for social dinners, but that was no big deal.
I hope you find the plan that makes you feel most successful, and I hope all this feedback helps.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #10
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I lost over 100 lbs doing JUDDD--and had a MD every week--as Dr. J advises for those who want to keep their DDs to specific days.

It is very much 'doing JUDDD.' Dr. J also advises against working out on DDs, which is why I set my rotation the way I did. I also knew it would be much easier for me to manage if I had specific days of the week as DDs, rather than different ones each week.

It worked well for me, and if others prefer to do the strict rotation, that's their choice. But mine is also a valid "JUDDD" choice.

I lost steadily with no stalls. A MD is not an aberration; it is included as part of "doing JUDDD" for those who wish to maintain a set schedule for DD/UD.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:36 PM   #11
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excuse my noobishness, what is an MD? my super deduction skills tell me it's "medium day" or something along those lines where you eat in between your up and down day values.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
Dr. J mentions the in between days in the back of the book in the question and answer section so he does not cover it in the main part of the book. It almost seems like an after thought. He also said that for some people the in between days were just another stressor.
I tried one MD and it messed my mind up so much I will never do another. If I have an evening activity I just fast until the event and eat conservatively. Works for me.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:51 PM   #13
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Well said. . Ive only been on this woe for 1 month and I wouldn't dream of doing a md already. It's not rocket science to figure out out when one deviates so early into a woe, it's not going to work as it should. That's when people begin to give up because the weightloss stalls or is nonexistent. They self sobotage. Muffabuff is correct. And for the long time Judders who have had great success, well they earned their md after doing trying dd for long periods of time.
Ps. No offence to anyone, I just believe challenges in life worth fighting for will pay dividends. We just have to suck it up and harden up. Let the magic work for you.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:53 PM   #14
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I have an MD every Friday, just because of my family dynamics and religious obligations (yes, there are rules about how much you have to eat over the weekend) but I truly feel it is the most challenging day for me.

DDs are easy. I have the same few foods that tide me over and keep me full.

UDs are a bit more difficult because I could fly off the handle is I'm not careful about my numbers, which I have started counting due to necessity , but by the MD is the hardest for me.

Since it comes after Thursday's DD, I often wake up hungry, and though I want to save almost all my calories for the Sabbath meal in the evening, I am hungry...and I often find myself derailed by that. Unfortunately, I don't see a way out of it, and I'll just have to be more careful, regulate myself better, and stock up on low-cal nosh to have around for my Fridays.
Of course the Sabbath on Friday evenings is a valid occasion each week. However, if it fell on a DD I would choose to fast during the day and save my calories for the Sabbath meal. Everyone must choose their own path. I just rarely see a MD as a last resort.

Last edited by Muffabuff; 06-24-2012 at 03:54 PM..
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:11 PM   #15
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I lost over 100 lbs doing JUDDD--and had a MD every week--as Dr. J advises for those who want to keep their DDs to specific days.

It is very much 'doing JUDDD.'
Dr. J also advises against working out on DDs, which is why I set my rotation the way I did. I also knew it would be much easier for me to manage if I had specific days of the week as DDs, rather than different ones each week.

It worked well for me, and if others prefer to do the strict rotation, that's their choice. But mine is also a valid "JUDDD" choice.

I lost steadily with no stalls. A MD is not an aberration; it is included as part of "doing JUDDD" for those who wish to maintain a set schedule for DD/UD.
Thank you for being very clear on this. I find the level of judging on this topic to be startling, and based on my past experience in this board, not at all what I expected.

For my own personal experience, I started JUDDD one week before a scheduled cruise. Now if I had taken the stance that "you have to do it perfectly, or forget it," I'd be TWO weeks behind-er on my return to normal weight. As it was, I did a great rotation the week before the cruise, ate normally during my cruise, and immediately returned to my rotations when I got home. And I did them the way I "needed" to do them to keep myself on JUDDD.

To tell another person that they can't have a regularly-scheduled MD to help make this fit into their life is, simply, wrong. Almost as wrong as saying what a "valid" occasion is to someone else.

Everyone has different life circumstances. Anyone who chooses to use an MD to help them stay with the program, and still loses to suit themselves, then yes, they are still on the program; they just choose to do it a little differently than some other people.

All this talk about JUDDD being "forgiving..." it would be nice if the adherents were as forgiving as the WOE.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
I lost over 100 lbs doing JUDDD--and had a MD every week--as Dr. J advises for those who want to keep their DDs to specific days.

It is very much 'doing JUDDD.' Dr. J also advises against working out on DDs, which is why I set my rotation the way I did. I also knew it would be much easier for me to manage if I had specific days of the week as DDs, rather than different ones each week.

It worked well for me, and if others prefer to do the strict rotation, that's their choice. But mine is also a valid "JUDDD" choice.

I lost steadily with no stalls. A MD is not an aberration; it is included as part of "doing JUDDD" for those who wish to maintain a set schedule for DD/UD.
Thanks for explaining this so clearly!
People have different opinions about and experiences with MDs,
but the fact is that MDs can be a part of JUDDD.
And they make JUDDD more practical/flexible for many people.

Last edited by piratejenny; 06-24-2012 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #17
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Georgene...
I started my reply, went to the kitchen for a bit, posted before checking the page, and didn't see your post!

Quote:
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Thank you for being very clear on this. I find the level of judging on this topic to be startling, and based on my past experience in this board, not at all what I expected...

To tell another person that they can't have a regularly-scheduled MD to help make this fit into their life is, simply, wrong. Almost as wrong as saying what a "valid" occasion is to someone else.

Everyone has different life circumstances. Anyone who chooses to use an MD to help them stay with the program, and still loses to suit themselves, then yes, they are still on the program; they just choose to do it a little differently than some other people.

All this talk about JUDDD being "forgiving..." it would be nice if the adherents were as forgiving as the WOE.

Last edited by piratejenny; 06-24-2012 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:37 PM   #18
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Of course the Sabbath on Friday evenings is a valid occasion each week. However, if it fell on a DD I would choose to fast during the day and save my calories for the Sabbath meal. Everyone must choose their own path. I just rarely see a MD as a last resort.
You're 100% right, of course. I only posted to show that depsite my religion being non-negotiable, the MD still presents as a challenge, and I just have to exercise my self control muscle a bit more on those days. But for someone who doesn't have the same considerations as I do might benefit from hearing that I do struggle with it, but, then again, that's my choice
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:45 PM   #19
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Addendum:
Though, as I said earlier, for religious reasons, I could never fit the Sabbath meal into just 400 calories. There are many Jewish laws revolving around which quantity of what food is enough for all the blessings involved...it gets complicated....but my main point is that the idea of an MD works well for thisweekly situation in my life, and, as others said, it is "legal" in the JUDDD lifestyle.

Truth be told, when I was doing Phase 1 of SB I "cheated" on Sabbath (both night and day) to have my requirement of bread. You have to know what your priorities are.

I think that's an important point for anyone on any diet. How much are you willing to give up, and are there times that call for compromise? If so, how do you deal with it? I think it's impractical to say that doing JUDDD is all or nothing. In fact, the whole JUDDD way of eating is based on the exact opposite approach. Yeah, you have to respect your numbers, but JUDDD is one of the rare diets that allows you to live your life while watching your weight.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
I lost over 100 lbs doing JUDDD--and had a MD every week--as Dr. J advises for those who want to keep their DDs to specific days.

It is very much 'doing JUDDD.' Dr. J also advises against working out on DDs, which is why I set my rotation the way I did. I also knew it would be much easier for me to manage if I had specific days of the week as DDs, rather than different ones each week.

It worked well for me, and if others prefer to do the strict rotation, that's their choice. But mine is also a valid "JUDDD" choice.

I lost steadily with no stalls. A MD is not an aberration; it is included as part of "doing JUDDD" for those who wish to maintain a set schedule for DD/UD.


There do seem to be so many differing opinions on this topic. I personally don't see any problem with MDs as a valid option for those who need or want them for whatever reason. I know several people have tried them and had problems with their loss slowing or stalling, but there are also plenty, like Leo, who use them with no ill effects.

For me, personally, I choose not to use them unless absolutely necessary to change my rotation. I also would prefer people start out doing straight UD/DD rotations for long enough to fully saturate with sirtuins. I'm no expert, but have read over and over that it can take as little as a few days up to 8-10 weeks to do so. When I started JUDDD, I wanted my DDs to always fall on the same days, but decided to give it a few weeks of UD/DD rotations. After a couple of weeks, I realized it really made no difference to ME if they fell on the same schedule or not, so I just plug along without MDs.

This WOE is so much about learning your own body and what it needs/wants to thrive. I suggest trying it whichever way you think is doable, and if it's not working that way, try it the other way. As long as you're following your calorie limits pretty closely, and getting good alternations, you're doing JUDDD, IMHO, and if it works for you, that's wonderful!
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:11 PM   #21
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Thank you Jennifer, for quoting the book. I haven't read it yet, and it's nice to see it in the Dr.'s own words. I think that should clear it up nicely. (You posted while I was formulating my response, so I missed yours too).
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #22
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Georgene...
I started my reply, went to the kitchen for a bit, posted before checking the page, and didn't see your post!
Not a problem, piratejenny!

Quote:
Truth be told, when I was doing Phase 1 of SB I "cheated" on Sabbath (both night and day) to have my requirement of bread. You have to know what your priorities are.
Even though I am a non-believer (in ANY religion), I respect everyone's choice in that matter, and if your religion says you should do this or that, then you are to be respected for having found a way to maintain your diet and your religion.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:42 PM   #23
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Thank you, Georgene
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:04 PM   #24
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You're 100% right, of course. I only posted to show that depsite my religion being non-negotiable, the MD still presents as a challenge, and I just have to exercise my self control muscle a bit more on those days. But for someone who doesn't have the same considerations as I do might benefit from hearing that I do struggle with it, but, then again, that's my choice
I'm so glad that you understand what I am trying to say, thank you. The Sabbeth meal is a lovely meal, I remember them from my childhood. They are definetly worth saving ones calories for!
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:33 PM   #25
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I just want to clarify my first post, I did about 6 MD in one month about 4 weeks into JUDDD and it was definitely not because I was trying to switch up my days because I was trying to do the rotation. My job is such that I have so many unusual circumstances "formal dinners" and I really was perplexed how to work the rotation around them. I now realize that I was, in fact, doing a true DD most of the time, because I failed to understand what the 35 to 50% days were and that we could use them? I suspect they would work well from the beginning as well, because they still activate the SIRT-1 and that is really what JUDDD is all about!

Thanks to Leo, she was one of the first ones to help me when I came here. She saw where I had problems not only with rotation, but also getting all of my calories on UD (still working on that)! I happened to remember reading of her success over a year ago when JUDDD was not a very popular WOE here on LCF, so I was thankful to know that she did the same and she lost over 100 lbs doing it this way as well. I appreciate that help and glad that I never quit JUDDD. Thank you Leo.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:18 PM   #26
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I just want to clarify my first post, I did about 6 MD in one month about 4 weeks into JUDDD and it was definitely not because I was trying to switch up my days because I was trying to do the rotation. My job is such that I have so many unusual circumstances "formal dinners" and I really was perplexed how to work the rotation around them. I now realize that I was, in fact, doing a true DD most of the time, because I failed to understand what the 35 to 50% days were and that we could use them? I suspect they would work well from the beginning as well, because they still activate the SIRT-1 and that is really what JUDDD is all about!

Thanks to Leo, she was one of the first ones to help me when I came here. She saw where I had problems not only with rotation, but also getting all of my calories on UD (still working on that)! I happened to remember reading of her success over a year ago when JUDDD was not a very popular WOE here on LCF, so I was thankful to know that she did the same and she lost over 100 lbs doing it this way as well. I appreciate that help and glad that I never quit JUDDD. Thank you Leo.
Sunday: by doing 50% on a DD is that not what a MD is? It's very possible that I have missed the boat here. I just thought that is what a medium day was? If it is different, can you please explain?
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:15 AM   #27
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I now realize that I was, in fact, doing a true DD most of the time, because I failed to understand what the 35 to 50% days were and that we could use them? I suspect they would work well from the beginning as well, because they still activate the SIRT-1 and that is really what JUDDD is all about!

sunday, Dr. J says in the book that based on his research (combined with some original research which he details in the book) he believes up to 75% could actually activate SIRT-1. (Kindle Locations 1637-1640)
He keeps his own at 50% because it allows him to both maintain and continue to see all of the other health benefits.

While losing he stayed at 20% and started all of his test patients at 20. One of the first subjects who was doing really well with the program came back to him and said she had a confession that she had been doing 35% DD as well as higher UD and she was still receiving all of the health benefits along with losing 15 pounds in 6 weeks. (Kindle Locations 597-599)

Important for this thread he also says this in a section titled:

Know Yourself and You Will Be Free

Kindle Locations 1645-1648

The Alternate-Day Diet succeeds because it allows you to determine the level of restriction at which you are comfortable and requires you to restrict only on alternate days. Once you determine the level of down-day restriction you can live with (up to 50 percent) and make sure that you stick to that, you’ll never again have to worry about “cheating” or eating “bad” food at a party, or never having a cheeseburger again for the rest of your life, because you’ll be able to do all of that at least every other day.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:43 AM   #28
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i did it twice and stalled
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:37 AM   #29
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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WOE: Maintenance - 5:2/JUDDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by dee View Post
Sunday: by doing 50% on a DD is that not what a MD is? It's very possible that I have missed the boat here. I just thought that is what a medium day was? If it is different, can you please explain?
I'm not Sunday, but don't want this to get lost. A MD is the average of your UD and DD numbers. Add UD+DD then divide by two.

EX: If your numbers are 2000/500: 2000+500=2500. 2500/2=1250. 1250 would be the MD amount.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:49 AM   #30
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
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WOE: my version of healthy diet mixed with JUDDD :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gharkness View Post
Thank you for being very clear on this. I find the level of judging on this topic to be startling, and based on my past experience in this board, not at all what I expected.

For my own personal experience, I started JUDDD one week before a scheduled cruise. Now if I had taken the stance that "you have to do it perfectly, or forget it," I'd be TWO weeks behind-er on my return to normal weight. As it was, I did a great rotation the week before the cruise, ate normally during my cruise, and immediately returned to my rotations when I got home. And I did them the way I "needed" to do them to keep myself on JUDDD.

To tell another person that they can't have a regularly-scheduled MD to help make this fit into their life is, simply, wrong. Almost as wrong as saying what a "valid" occasion is to someone else.

Everyone has different life circumstances. Anyone who chooses to use an MD to help them stay with the program, and still loses to suit themselves, then yes, they are still on the program; they just choose to do it a little differently than some other people.

All this talk about JUDDD being "forgiving..." it would be nice if the adherents were as forgiving as the WOE.
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