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Old 06-25-2012, 05:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dee View Post
Sunday: by doing 50% on a DD is that not what a MD is? It's very possible that I have missed the boat here. I just thought that is what a medium day was? If it is different, can you please explain?
Dee, Dawn is correct and I am one who got this confused in the beginning. I didn't read the book until after getting a ways into the program. So, I truly was doing DD instead of MD for the most part. I know that my MD is 1090 and yet, I was doing 50% DD on a few of the days that I had several special dinners etc.

It was not until May and school was out that I figured out that I am one who does a bit better with 35% DD and some lower UD thrown in as well.

Thank you Gulf Coast Girl for the kindle notes! I think this info should be put in the stickie on HOW TO DO JUDDD.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:03 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Girl View Post
sunday, Dr. J says in the book that based on his research (combined with some original research which he details in the book) he believes up to 75% could actually activate SIRT-1. (Kindle Locations 1637-1640)
He keeps his own at 50% because it allows him to both maintain and continue to see all of the other health benefits.

While losing he stayed at 20% and started all of his test patients at 20. One of the first subjects who was doing really well with the program came back to him and said she had a confession that she had been doing 35% DD as well as higher UD and she was still receiving all of the health benefits along with losing 15 pounds in 6 weeks. (Kindle Locations 597-599)

Important for this thread he also says this in a section titled:

Know Yourself and You Will Be Free

Kindle Locations 1645-1648

The Alternate-Day Diet succeeds because it allows you to determine the level of restriction at which you are comfortable and requires you to restrict only on alternate days. Once you determine the level of down-day restriction you can live with (up to 50 percent) and make sure that you stick to that, you’ll never again have to worry about “cheating” or eating “bad” food at a party, or never having a cheeseburger again for the rest of your life, because you’ll be able to do all of that at least every other day.
Thank you Gulf Coast Girl! I really appreciate this quote because I did feel like I was sabotaging the JUDDD plan when my DD wasn't at 20% and so thankful that I never gave up on trying to get the swing of it. In fact, I think that several of us that started around the same time had the exact same issues. We have life, jobs and special circumstances that will keep us from being able to do the exact same calories per day ever other day. That is why JUDDD is so great!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:15 AM   #33
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I'm so glad we are now on the same page - gee, is that literal? (Who'd have thought a few years ago that we'd be citing Kindle editions - what an age we live in!)

In my MWF DDs, I've always known I was following Dr. Johnson's exact words and what he'd already documented many people doing successfully long before the book was published. There were also interviews that included it, but I no longer have those links.

( Interestingly, do you notice with so much wider acceptance of his work, now nobody interviews him! Just a few years back there was skepticism and interviewers wanted to try to discredit. I remember a nutritionist who had been out of college a couple minutes, excitedly exclaiming to Dr. Johnson that she "knew" the only safe way to eat was to consume the same calories every day. But, I digress! )

Anyway, every other aspect of our lives is dominated by the calendar, from schools to religious observance, to sports, to when we can expect offices to be open or get a letter mailed. So being able to know, over years, that every MWF would be DDs has been a great simplification for me. I don't believe I (or any family member) has ever had to put a pencil to a calendar to remember what a certain day would be.

On weekends is when I have traditionally had family houseguests every month or so, too - because that's when people can get off work to visit. This is one reason our household is very blessed by MWF DDs, because that's not just one meal to plan, that's accepting the responsibility of being a hostess to travelers who need you for 2 days.

Like I posted to another question the other day, our ancestors (up to very recent ancestors when you consider the Great Depression or perhaps long trips to "the new worlds") had unpredictable and sporadic amounts of food available. Nothing was an exact 48 hour swing for any of them - they only wished! So even when researchers studied exact 48-hour swings in their work, they weren't suggesting it was the original way the SIRT-1 gene benefits us.

It is, however, the most predictable way to document that it is activated, to document results and show others how to achieve them. So no wonder exact alternation is likely the way most JUDDD dieters have done it, and is the plan most responsible for happiness here on this forums! Hurray, JUDDD, Hurray, JUDDD-ers!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:20 AM   #34
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Thank you for being very clear on this. I find the level of judging on this topic to be startling, and based on my past experience in this board, not at all what I expected.

For my own personal experience, I started JUDDD one week before a scheduled cruise. Now if I had taken the stance that "you have to do it perfectly, or forget it," I'd be TWO weeks behind-er on my return to normal weight. As it was, I did a great rotation the week before the cruise, ate normally during my cruise, and immediately returned to my rotations when I got home. And I did them the way I "needed" to do them to keep myself on JUDDD.

To tell another person that they can't have a regularly-scheduled MD to help make this fit into their life is, simply, wrong. Almost as wrong as saying what a "valid" occasion is to someone else.

Everyone has different life circumstances. Anyone who chooses to use an MD to help them stay with the program, and still loses to suit themselves, then yes, they are still on the program; they just choose to do it a little differently than some other people.

All this talk about JUDDD being "forgiving..." it would be nice if the adherents were as forgiving as the WOE.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:44 AM   #35
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I suspect we're all doing our best to be supportive and helpful. I'm grateful for that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #36
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You know what? I actually like this vast range of opinions - and that's exactly what they are - opinions. While I see this forum as a source of information and support, and enjoy the warm camaraderie, I also enjoy the spirited discussions and disagreements. These can help us in our day-to-day lives w/all those nay-sayers out there! In the end, don't we all have to just find out what works for us as individuals? I personally agree that doing the JUDDD rotation exactly is preferred in the early weeks so we can not only activate the SIRT enzymes but also get to know our own limits, true hunger vs head hunger, and espec. learn to ask for advice/support on this forum. However, after the first few weeks, I found that FOR ME, a weekly MD helped me to stay on track long term. I'm now maintaining at goal. I look at JUDDD as a way of eating for life, and MDs make this doable for me. Personally, if I got into the "all or nothing" attitude, I'd just give up and would now be wallowing in self loathing and heavier than ever.

Two cheers for differing opinions and a full three cheers for having this forum (and wonderfully unique JUDDD Buddds) to express them (to)!
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:33 PM   #37
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You know what? I actually like this vast range of opinions - and that's exactly what they are - opinions. While I see this forum as a source of information and support, and enjoy the warm camaraderie, I also enjoy the spirited discussions and disagreements. These can help us in our day-to-day lives w/all those nay-sayers out there! In the end, don't we all have to just find out what works for us as individuals? I personally agree that doing the JUDDD rotation exactly is preferred in the early weeks so we can not only activate the SIRT enzymes but also get to know our own limits, true hunger vs head hunger, and espec. learn to ask for advice/support on this forum. However, after the first few weeks, I found that FOR ME, a weekly MD helped me to stay on track long term. I'm now maintaining at goal. I look at JUDDD as a way of eating for life, and MDs make this doable for me. Personally, if I got into the "all or nothing" attitude, I'd just give up and would now be wallowing in self loathing and heavier than ever.

Two cheers for differing opinions and a full three cheers for having this forum (and wonderfully unique JUDDD Buddds) to express them (to)!
Thank you!!! So thankful to hear this about MD. Congrats on your success!
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:48 PM   #38
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My decision to add MD was 2 part; first my senior brain could not remember whether it was DD or UD. I needed to say, 'oh, it's Wednesday, a DD'.
Next I didn't need to lose so needed to do something to keep my weight w/in range. Adding MD and increasing fat on UD seem to be my magic formula.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:54 PM   #39
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My decision to add MD was 2 part; first my senior brain could not remember whether it was DD or UD. I needed to say, 'oh, it's Wednesday, a DD'.
Next I didn't need to lose so needed to do something to keep my weight w/in range. Adding MD and increasing fat on UD seem to be my magic formula.
Jem,
Didn't you also get to goal with JUDDD? Or am I getting you confused with another? I am so looking forward to being able to do MWF as my DD and have MD UD on Sat & Sun. I can't hardly wait.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:47 PM   #40
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I suspect it actually is a genuine caring desire to try to help people get things right that's prompted the responses on this thread. Many of us have long and unhappy experiences of trying to shift the pounds and, having found something that works, want to help others to find it too!

I just wanted to add that I belong to a UK based JUDDD forum where a number of folk are losing very successfully by having M, W, F as DDs and Tu, Th, Sa and Su as UDs - no MDs at all. I do wonder sometimes whether it's actually MDs that confuse the metabolism and that folks might be better off having 2 UDs together rather than MD - UD.

It's another alternative and I'm sure I remember reading Dr J suggesting that some people might want to do that ( but I might be mis-remembering ). It seems to me that the worst thing that might happen is that weight loss is slowed down somewhat. So? I rather like that this WOE isn't a race to the finish line but a sustainable way of losing extra pounds and more importantly, keeping them off!
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:36 PM   #41
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seems to me another word for a medium day is a maintenance level down day at an upper percentage. No worries. There is no IF/JUDDDD police force. You are adapting your life, and stuff happens. If eating on a down day to an upper level stresses you, don't do it. If you need to, go ahead. I have had enough food bullying to last me several lifetimes, which is what thrilled me about JUDDDD and the various IF lifestyles out there. FREEDOM for ME. Not one other human can tell me what to do or stress me about MY CHOICES and I LOVE IT. If I have a crazy day, it can be whatever I choose. When I fully fast, I love that too. If you cannot find a lifestyle you will live with for the rest of your eating days then what are you (me) doing? Yoyo dieting some more? I don't want to be on the yoyo. I don't need some legalistic system to control my life. I have worked hard for years at my health issues, treatment through real food and nutrition, and IF just fits beautifully like a missing puzzle piece making the picture come to life.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:38 PM   #42
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I rather like that this WOE isn't a race to the finish line but a sustainable way of losing extra pounds and more importantly, keeping them off!
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:03 PM   #43
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Thank you Gulf Coast Girl! I really appreciate this quote because I did feel like I was sabotaging the JUDDD plan when my DD wasn't at 20% and so thankful that I never gave up on trying to get the swing of it. In fact, I think that several of us that started around the same time had the exact same issues. We have life, jobs and special circumstances that will keep us from being able to do the exact same calories per day ever other day. That is why JUDDD is so great!
You're welcome.

What I take away from the book - and what I also feel like I see played out here on the site with real people following the plan - is that the key thing here is to get the SIRT-1 activated. You can do that quickly with a 20% straight UD/DD rotation for 2 weeks or you can do it slower at any level up to 50%. There's a good picture in the book (attached Kindle Locations 773-774)

No matter how you fill up your tank once it's built up it's built up for weeks (see in the picture how it fills up in a large opening but depletes in small drips). If you have the time/patience to build it up slowly using up to 50% that's as much JUDDD'ing as if you choose to totally fast on DD's.

And now I will stop posting sections of the book. It just really annoys me when people are told they are breaking rules when what they're doing is clearly defined as allowed in the rules (book).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SIRT-1.JPG (41.8 KB, 20 views)
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:22 PM   #44
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@Jennifer, thanks for the visual. I really did read the kindle book, and I saw that diagram but it made no sense to me. Sheesh the way you explain it makes sense. So any idea how long it takes at each percentage to fill up the sirt bucket? Is there another piece I missed that would give any indication? I am trying to get my inflammation under control; don't care about losing more at this time but if some slides off I won't miss it *LOL*

I am not at 20% but I am at 500cals, which for me is just less than 30%, hubs is at about 30%+ or 7-800. He will do 500 days when he can with his work. We just started. I just don't feel I can do 20% at barely 350 calories coming off of hcg. Yikes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:59 PM   #45
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b-lou-who, it seems to me the original word from which the "M" in "MD" was taken may have been "maintenance". But that would have been either before my time here or at the very earliest time and I'm not sure. It wasn't given a name in the book. But certainly "maintenance" is the point.

Thanks for the info, Lily.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:42 PM   #46
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@Jennifer, thanks for the visual. I really did read the kindle book, and I saw that diagram but it made no sense to me. Sheesh the way you explain it makes sense. So any idea how long it takes at each percentage to fill up the sirt bucket? Is there another piece I missed that would give any indication?

No he didn't give specific times just said in that passage I quoted above that he believes (like the original researcher did as well) that even up to 75% would activate the SIRT-1.

I started JUDDD specifically for the health benefits (Lupus inflammation and breathing issues). Started in Jan at the low end of the weight chart for my height. Since I was already in maintenance I started with maintenance JUDDD numbers 50% - I never did the 500 cal or 20% DD for the first 2 weeks thing - I take too much medication to drop that low.

I didn't lose the first month then around week six started dropping additional weight. Since mid Feb I've lost 7 pounds. Not a lot but again I was already in a very good place. So to me it seems like using 50% DD numbers took 6 weeks to build up the JUDDD magic and then I just started dropping additional weight without even trying - in fact I've raised UD numbers as high as I possibly can trying to gain back some of the weight and it won't budge.

I hope Dawn doesn't mind me using her as another example but she's a perfect example of one who'd been JUDDD'ing for a good while (so her SIRT-1 tank was good and full) then she switched to maintenance numbers for a while and continued to lose.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:27 PM   #47
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No he didn't give specific times just said in that passage I quoted above that he believes (like the original researcher did as well) that even up to 75% would activate the SIRT-1.

I started JUDDD specifically for the health benefits (Lupus inflammation and breathing issues). Started in Jan at the low end of the weight chart for my height. Since I was already in maintenance I started with maintenance JUDDD numbers 50% - I never did the 500 cal or 20% DD for the first 2 weeks thing - I take too much medication to drop that low.

I didn't lose the first month then around week six started dropping additional weight. Since mid Feb I've lost 7 pounds. Not a lot but again I was already in a very good place. So to me it seems like using 50% DD numbers took 6 weeks to build up the JUDDD magic and then I just started dropping additional weight without even trying - in fact I've raised UD numbers as high as I possibly can trying to gain back some of the weight and it won't budge.

I hope Dawn doesn't mind me using her as another example but she's a perfect example of one who'd been JUDDD'ing for a good while (so her SIRT-1 tank was good and full) then she switched to maintenance numbers for a while and continued to lose.
Wow! This is something I must have skimmed, and my goodness, it is just as important as anything on how to do JUDDD! Thank you for posting the book! I do not have it on my Kindle, but will download. I bought the hard back book and ordered one for my brother. I have time this week and will go back and re-read this part. Thank you so much Jennifer and congrats on your great success! I guess I haven't been here long enough to have watched your journey, but you are living proof that this will work even at 50%.

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Old 06-25-2012, 07:32 PM   #48
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Jennifer,
Can you tell us how much anti-inflammation you have noticed or healing benefit for your Lupus? I agree that Dawn is one more stunning example of the plan working even when at maintenance. This is probably why when I upped my DD, I started moving downward again. I was trying to do 20% or fast and had a dead stop. So, when I moved both the DD up and the UD down just a tad, I noticed things started moving once more in the downward direction. It was a wonderful surprise!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:33 PM   #49
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I haven't seen the guy named Jamie lately, but he was the first one to mention to me that I needed to try this. He said it was definitely working for him.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #50
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No he didn't give specific times just said in that passage I quoted above that he believes (like the original researcher did as well) that even up to 75% would activate the SIRT-1.

I started JUDDD specifically for the health benefits (Lupus inflammation and breathing issues). Started in Jan at the low end of the weight chart for my height. Since I was already in maintenance I started with maintenance JUDDD numbers 50% - I never did the 500 cal or 20% DD for the first 2 weeks thing - I take too much medication to drop that low.

I didn't lose the first month then around week six started dropping additional weight. Since mid Feb I've lost 7 pounds. Not a lot but again I was already in a very good place. So to me it seems like using 50% DD numbers took 6 weeks to build up the JUDDD magic and then I just started dropping additional weight without even trying - in fact I've raised UD numbers as high as I possibly can trying to gain back some of the weight and it won't budge.

I hope Dawn doesn't mind me using her as another example but she's a perfect example of one who'd been JUDDD'ing for a good while (so her SIRT-1 tank was good and full) then she switched to maintenance numbers for a while and continued to lose.
I agree with everything said here, but do want to clarify that I bumped up to higher percentage numbers, and called it a maintenance break, but to be fair, I never ate at actual "maintenance" numbers when I was losing. I have no doubt I would have continued to lose with higher numbers, but I'm struggling with some health issues and just needed to take the stress off of myself about losing weight for the time being. I allowed/allow myself up to 750 calorie DDs to maintain, and never go over my UD numbers, but that's still "technically" about 35-40% for me.

I wasn't losing very quickly at that time and I'm going through a bunch of medication adjustments, so I had to modify the plan to work for me, without going off plan, as so many of us here do. That's been MY tweak. I just found out today that my meds are STILL not optimized, and I have to increase my T4 yet again, so I have no idea now if I'm going to continue using the higher numbers or go back to the lower numbers yet. I'm just so very pleased that we have all these options with JUDDD, and that I can remove the stress when needed.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:39 PM   #51
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@Jennifer, how long did it take for you to notice any reduction in pain, inflammation, or however you knew besides weight gain it was helping? I am in pain every day with arthritis. I know that is a possibility to be helped. Thank you.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:45 PM   #52
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I agree with everything said here, but do want to clarify that I bumped up to higher percentage numbers, and called it a maintenance break, but to be fair, I never ate at actual "maintenance" numbers when I was losing. I have no doubt I would have continued to lose with higher numbers, but I'm struggling with some health issues and just needed to take the stress off of myself about losing weight for the time being. I allowed/allow myself up to 750 calorie DDs to maintain, and never go over my UD numbers, but that's still "technically" about 35-40% for me.

I wasn't losing very quickly at that time and I'm going through a bunch of medication adjustments, so I had to modify the plan to work for me, without going off plan, as so many of us here do. That's been MY tweak. I just found out today that my meds are STILL not optimized, and I have to increase my T4 yet again, so I have no idea now if I'm going to continue using the higher numbers or go back to the lower numbers yet. I'm just so very pleased that we have all these options with JUDDD, and that I can remove the stress when needed.
Dawn, I am still having issues with my thyroid as well, but noticed that fasting seems to be helping mine. Or at least the sluggish issues that I was having? What will you do to remedy the T4? I am taking 1 gr of armour and will not know until next blood test what is happening for T4.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:51 PM   #53
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I allow one MD per month if and only if I need to change my rotation. MDs can be a part of maintenance for me. Right now they will derail me.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:01 PM   #54
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Jennifer,
Can you tell us how much anti-inflammation you have noticed or healing benefit for your Lupus?
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@Jennifer, how long did it take for you to notice any reduction in pain, inflammation, or however you knew besides weight gain it was helping? I am in pain every day with arthritis. I know that is a possibility to be helped. Thank you.

I've noticed improvement in two areas: inflammation and asthma.

Asthma: I posted last month how my pharmacist was concerned that I hadn't refilled my inhaler since Feb (that's the same month I believe the SIRT-1 was active enough to start the weight loss too). Normally I go thru at least 2 of those things a month and keep extras all over the place so I'll never be far from one. It's the end of JUNE now and I'm still using that same inhaler I picked up in Feb. For me that alone is worth every DD.

Inflammation: I'm not feeling the actual affects in my joints yet but my routine blood work (every 3 months) is showing improvement since starting JUDDD. The range with my lab is 1 - 10 and I've been in the 9/10's for YEARS. My first test post JUDDD'ing was in the 7's. A lot of my inflammation is in the lungs and around my heart so even if I'm not feeling it in my joints yet I'd much rather the lungs/heart get under control first anyway.

My Dr is very interested in the plan and is hoping to consult with Dr. J at some point and then start recommending the plan to patients. I'm very luck to have found her because she's amazingly open to non traditional ideas.

Last edited by Gulf Coast Girl; 06-25-2012 at 08:02 PM.. Reason: left out a word
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:08 PM   #55
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Thanks Jennifer! I do remember reading the post about your inhaler and I was thinking then how amazing the Sirt1 is to heal. Please keep us updated and I hope your doctor does actually get in contact with Dr. J!
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:10 PM   #56
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Can you tell me what the name of the blood test you run is called that measures inflammation like that? I'd like to ask my naturopath to run it.

And I'm happy for you, so happy, that you are seeing that difference around your cardio-respiratory system. How wonderful!
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:13 PM   #57
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Dawn, I am still having issues with my thyroid as well, but noticed that fasting seems to be helping mine. Or at least the sluggish issues that I was having? What will you do to remedy the T4? I am taking 1 gr of armour and will not know until next blood test what is happening for T4.
I asked about Armour or Cytomel and the doctor (GP) admitted his knowledge is lacking, which is why he wants to increase the T4. I'm only on 50 mcg at the moment (increasing to 75), but TSH is 2 (mid range), and I feel sort of amped in the morning and then crash midday. T3 is 63 with a ref. range of 76-181 so I'm definitely not converting well. I'm sure either Armour or Cytomel would help.

DH was out of work/partially employed most of the last year, so we're pretty broke right now. He's getting insurance with his new job effective August 1st, and with my insurance, we'll be double covered and I can go wherever I want without risk of having huge medical bills. I've been researching Endos in my area, and can't really figure out who's good and who's not. I don't know anybody here with TD to ask. I have a friend with diabetes but she doesn't know if her doctor is good with thyroid and he's an hour away. It's so frustrating.

How did you find out about/get prescribed Armour? Did you have to push for it, or did you have a progressive dr.?

Sorry for the threadjack!
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:20 PM   #58
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I just found out today that my meds are STILL not optimized, and I have to increase my T4 yet again, so I have no idea now if I'm going to continue using the higher numbers or go back to the lower numbers yet. I'm just so very pleased that we have all these options with JUDDD, and that I can remove the stress when needed.
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Dawn, I am still having issues with my thyroid as well, but noticed that fasting seems to be helping mine.
I hope you both get the relief you need soon. My Mom is going thru an adjustment phase with her thyroid meds right now too and I see how frustrating it can be to get them optimized.

Dawn, my Mom is on Armour and likes it so much more than what she was on before (I can't remember the name of the first med). She stayed on the other for 3 months and I'd seen people posting here on LCF talking about Armour so I just flat out asked her Dr to switch her. I was nice and just said something like "She's been trying this for 3 months and it did nothing I don't want her suffering/wasting another 3 on the same thing." She did see improvement with the Armour but she also lost weight which is what's causing the need for her to be adjusted again.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #59
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Can you tell me what the name of the blood test you run is called that measures inflammation like that? I'd like to ask my naturopath to run it.
Excuse me for butting in...my guess is it's the CRP test (C-Reactive Protein).
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #60
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Can you tell me what the name of the blood test you run is called that measures inflammation like that? I'd like to ask my naturopath to run it.

And I'm happy for you, so happy, that you are seeing that difference around your cardio-respiratory system. How wonderful!
Thank you.

The test we use to monitor mine is called crp (c reactive protein).

You can also ask for a Sed Rate test which measures inflammation and is cheaper.

Either one is good for people who already know where their inflammation is coming from. Like we know ours is from joint pain and in my case lung inflammation so we can be fairly certain the results are truly measuring those things. If you didn't already know what you were looking for you probably wouldn't want to use the Sed Rate test as your first test because it can pick up inflammation from anywhere including monthly cycles (I had a Dr once who wouldn't run it at all if it was that time of the month because she felt like it wouldn't give a true measure.)
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