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Old 06-20-2012, 03:05 PM   #1
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Has ANyone Read "How much can you expect to lose" in The ADD book?

Interesting the paragraph i read last night, its on page 138. I have the soft paperback book, half orange and half green colour.

Dr J talks amount estimating your weekly weightloss. I found it very interesting. Formula is -- Lb of fat = 3500. (the amount you must reduce your intake to lose one pound), This we know

EG, if estimated daily calories requirement is 2000, over 30 days you require 60,000 cals to maintain weight. If you consume 20 percent , or 400 cals on Down days, and 2000 cals for 15 up days, your calorie intake for the 30 days is 15 x 2000 + (15 x 400) = 36,000. Therefore, 60,000 -36,000 (24,000) is your calorie deficit, and 24,000 divided by 3500 = 6.9 pounds of fat lost in 30 days.

What does all think about this?
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsa View Post
Interesting the paragraph i read last night, its on page 138. I have the soft paperback book, half orange and half green colour.

Dr J talks amount estimating your weekly weightloss. I found it very interesting. Formula is -- Lb of fat = 3500. (the amount you must reduce your intake to lose one pound), This we know

EG, if estimated daily calories requirement is 2000, over 30 days you require 60,000 cals to maintain weight. If you consume 20 percent , or 400 cals on Down days, and 2000 cals for 15 up days, your calorie intake for the 30 days is 15 x 2000 + (15 x 400) = 36,000. Therefore, 60,000 -36,000 (24,000) is your calorie deficit, and 24,000 divided by 3500 = 6.9 pounds of fat lost in 30 days.

What does all think about this?
I would say that is a good avg. However, if you are close to goal, does this become less? I keep seeing folks say they slow down as they get closer.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:25 PM   #3
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Hmmmmm...interesting. That, of course, is conventional wisdom. But there are many other factors.

I would think one of them is what Dr. J. himself talks about. It is the effect of the SIR genes on the body and specifically on fat and extra calories.

If what I have read is correct, then when SIRT1 is activated and the enzymes/hormones/proteins talked about build up in the system, one of the many beneficial results is fat blocking and burning.

In other words, I have read that these sirtuin enzymes, which are "special proteins" act like hormones. And, they have a direct effect on other hormones. One of these hormones affected has the job of processing and storing up extra calories eaten in existing fat cells. This is in case of a coming famine.

The SIR (Silent Information Regulators) are supposed to block that hormone from stimulating fat storage from excess calories. Instead those calories are flushed out through the kidneys. The sir enzymes are also supposed to start burning STORED fat pretty quickly.

Another factor that must be considered is the type of food you eat. Because of SDA (Specific Dynamic Action) of foods, different nutrients have different amounts of calories that can be extracted from foods and used by the body in normal situations.

For example, lean and fat free protein has the highest SDA at 30%. this means that if you eat 100 calories from lean protein, your body must use 30 of those calories in the digestive process because protein is the hardest and takes the body the longest to digest. Sugars/carbs have the lowest SDA so they are converted quickly and almost all of those calories are immediately extracted and used by the body. If I remember correctly, fat has an SDA of appx 12%.

One more factor I can think of is the amount of fat a person has stored up. Put another way, it's about how much weight they have to lose. The farther away from our ideal weight or "true" weight we are, the faster we lose. The closer we get to goal, the slower we lose.

Then you also have health issues. Those with thyroid problems lose at a very different rate for instance.

IMHO you just cannot calculate how fast individuals will lose from week to week. It is not as simple as "calories in and calories out" as we have so often heard.

There is body type to consider. How much lean muscle mass a person has in ratio to fat is a consideration. Does a person have issues with fluid retention? Depending on the type of food they eat, say low carb lots of protein, they might have a huge scale drop from water at first because carbs tend to cause those people to retain water. Protein on the other hand has a diuretic effect if you take it in along with lots of drinking water. It makes ketones which tend to suck water out of body tissues.

Anyway, it's interesting to think about but hard to predict! That was my usual long way of saying it!

I have too much time on my hands today.....
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:27 PM   #4
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsa View Post
Interesting the paragraph i read last night, its on page 138. I have the soft paperback book, half orange and half green colour.

Dr J talks amount estimating your weekly weightloss. I found it very interesting. Formula is -- Lb of fat = 3500. (the amount you must reduce your intake to lose one pound), This we know

EG, if estimated daily calories requirement is 2000, over 30 days you require 60,000 cals to maintain weight. If you consume 20 percent , or 400 cals on Down days, and 2000 cals for 15 up days, your calorie intake for the 30 days is 15 x 2000 + (15 x 400) = 36,000. Therefore, 60,000 -36,000 (24,000) is your calorie deficit, and 24,000 divided by 3500 = 6.9 pounds of fat lost in 30 days.

What does all think about this?

My guess is that overall, when you take the result of that formula and how it worked for a large group on average, it would probably be pretty darned close. But we do know that there are some outside factors that can impact how our bodies function, that can somewhat interfere with workings that you would expect to have happen in a somewhat straight forward way.

But overall, I think it's a good way to figure and plan. As long as you always keep in mind that there is a lot more to *weight* than just body fat. And that it won't come off of you in a straight linear manner. And that you can eat exactly those given calories week after week after week... exactly because you weigh out and measure out every single tiny morsel that passes your lips, and still there will be some weeks of better weight loss being shown you by your scale, and some weeks of less weight loss, and perhaps the occasional week where you see absolutely no weight loss at all.

But overall, I expect that's a pretty good way to figure it. And then hope it applies to you.

Oh, and I wanted to add... I think that works out a lot more dependably over the long haul than depending on it in the short term. If you are counting on it to get to a certain smaller size by July 20th... you may or may not receive your wish and desire.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #6
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Yes, I read it and figured out the numbers for me and sadly I am not losing as much as the formula said I should. BUT I am happy with any loss.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post
IMHO you just cannot calculate how fast individuals will lose from week to week. It is not as simple as "calories in and calories out" as we have so often heard.
you put it so well. Much more so than the first thought which came to my mind, which was " 'calories in = calories out' is complete hogwash!"

In fact I have not read the book, but if Dr. J states that a 3500 calorie deficit equals a pound of fat lost it is suddenly making me rethink this whole JUDDD thing, as if he says that then I find myself wondering if everything about him is suspect.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #8
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I would say that is a good avg. However, if you are close to goal, does this become less? I keep seeing folks say they slow down as they get closer.
This is absolutely true. You hit the nail on the head.

From my research, part of this is due to the body's predisposition to conserve extra weight in case of a perceived coming food shortage.

One thing that sticks in my head from my reading is that the body puts up very little resistance in the beginning when we start a diet. We lose fat, water and even some muscle and the body cooperates and lets go of it.

However, at some point when in the hypothalamus part of the brain, it is perceived that more and more of the precious fat stores are "being plundered" something clicks. The brain sends out an SOS and puts on the brakes.

It signals that the hormone Leptin should stop being produced. Instead it commands Grehlin and Cortisol to make an appearance. Our hunger hormones go crazy and make us feel like we NEED to eat foods high in calories to restore the extra fat supply. Our digestive system also gets a message that whatever we eat, the heck with the SDA! It better start extracting more and more calories from every morsel and finds a way to do it.

Fatigue can be a part of this trickery as the body tries to keep us resting and too tired to burn extra calories.

My thought about JUDD is that as we continue to practice the eating rotations, we can trick the bodies trickery if you will. We keep the body guessing. After a DD it's saying "time for our book of tricks! Bring out the Grehlin!" But then we start into our nutritious UD. The brain, smart as it is, says, "Cease fire! Call off the troops! There is really no danger of depletion after all! Instead of a shortage, we seem to be getting an excess of incoming calories and nutrients! Let's throw more logs on the fire and rev up this sluggish metabolism!"

I heard Chris Powell say that the average person can expect to lose 1% of their total body weight per week when dieting and that this is scientific fact. (That is through healthy diet and exercise). Oh, and it would probably exclude the first week because that's when the extra water gets sucked out of body tissues.

So, since this is very simple, let's say someone starts out weighing 300 pounds and goes on an aggressive WL plan. After that first week whoosh, they can expect to lose 3 pounds a week on average, pretty consistently if they stick with it. ON AVERAGE, please note.

What if they lose to the point where they now weigh 150 but still have not reached their desired goal weight? 1% a week now looks like 1.5 pounds ON AVERAGE. And, is that an average of 30 days? So they are losing 6 pounds per month? Maybe a big whoosh of 3 pounds one week, then nothing for a week, only half a pound the next week and then a whoosh of 2.5 the last week??

Or, is the average over a one year period? So, say that person could go for a whole month with out losing. Then during another month they lose 2 or more pounds on average per week.

OK, still too much time on my hands.....

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:50 PM   #9
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you put it so well. Much more so than the first thought which came to my mind, which was " 'calories in = calories out' is complete hogwash!"

In fact I have not read the book, but if Dr. J states that a 3500 calorie deficit equals a pound of fat lost it is suddenly making me rethink this whole JUDDD thing, as if he says that then I find myself wondering if everything about him is suspect.
I think most people will agree that calories in, calories out is not the entire equation. We forget that our bodies are created in order to keep us from starving ourselves and so the metabolism has several "tricks" up its sleeve if it thinks we are losing weight too fast. This includes filling fat cells with water, increasing appetite, decreasing activity (you know those days you just don't feel like doing anything?), and many more.

JUDDD for the most part bypasses many of these features by confusing the metabolism. Also the features of JUDDD were not discovered by Dr Johnson himself (he's a plastic surgeon) but by research scientists studying rats in semi-starvation. That, I think makes the data somewhat irrefutable and if that's not enough, the evidence of those of us on this board should be anecdotal enough to back up the plan further.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig View Post
you put it so well. Much more so than the first thought which came to my mind, which was " 'calories in = calories out' is complete hogwash!"

In fact I have not read the book, but if Dr. J states that a 3500 calorie deficit equals a pound of fat lost it is suddenly making me rethink this whole JUDDD thing, as if he says that then I find myself wondering if everything about him is suspect.
I'm going to have to go back to the book and see if I can find him giving any clarification to this. It seems contradictory for him to state it as unchallenged fact given him sighting all the research about SIR genes.

But then again, remember that he is a plastic surgeon and not a nutritionist!

You should probably read some research and studies about Intermittent Fasting from other doctors and scientists way more qualified to speak definitively on the subject.

I got a lot out of his book. Been a while since I've read it or gone back to it. So, I do recommend it. Very motivational from a regular guy who studied up and found out what would help himself lose weight! I liked it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:53 PM   #11
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I'll try to look where it is in the book. Later, Dr J says people living the JUDDD WOE lose faster than the formula. The he explains the SIR thing.

I assume he put the formula in so people like Adi can run the calculation then shrug and say, so?

I do not understand why he put the formula in the book. Actually, there is a heck of a lot in the book that I wonder about. I am glad I read this forum and started JUDDDing before I read the book...if I had read the book first, I probably would not have tried the WOE. And today several S/M size belts fit!

I do find there is a JUDDD/SIR core of info in the book that is very, very useful. Maybe all the other stuff is fluff so the book is more than twenty pages long?
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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if that's not enough, the evidence of those of us on this board should be anecdotal enough to back up the plan further.
It's the anecdotal stuff that made me figure I should give it a try. But I'm not going to try to calculate how much I'll lose. I mean I've been stalled for *three years* eating a diet that should have seen me losing at a nice clip. But I think my metabolism needs a good shake-up and I'm hoping JUDDD will do that. Just finishing my third DD today and I'm finding them surprisingly easy. No weight lost at all so far. But I am feeling pretty good.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #13
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I'll try to look where it is in the book. Later, Dr J says people living the JUDDD WOE lose faster than the formula. The he explains the SIR thing.

I assume he put the formula in so people like Adi can run the calculation then shrug and say, so?

I do not understand why he put the formula in the book. Actually, there is a heck of a lot in the book that I wonder about. I am glad I read this forum and started JUDDDing before I read the book...if I had read the book first, I probably would not have tried the WOE. And today several S/M size belts fit!

I do find there is a JUDDD/SIR core of info in the book that is very, very useful. Maybe all the other stuff is fluff so the book is more than twenty pages long?
Exactly!!! I was thinking the same thing!!! Seriously, Nancy, sometimes I just want to squeeze you and love you up! You always, always make me smile! You are so cute!
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:02 PM   #14
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It's the anecdotal stuff that made me figure I should give it a try. But I'm not going to try to calculate how much I'll lose. I mean I've been stalled for *three years* eating a diet that should have seen me losing at a nice clip. But I think my metabolism needs a good shake-up and I'm hoping JUDDD will do that. Just finishing my third DD today and I'm finding them surprisingly easy. No weight lost at all so far. But I am feeling pretty good.
I want to make sure and say, !!! Pat has talked a lot about how some of us have metabolisms that need to be healed before the weight will start dropping off. Maybe she will come back and elaborate on this??

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Old 06-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Merpig View Post
you put it so well. Much more so than the first thought which came to my mind, which was " 'calories in = calories out' is complete hogwash!"

In fact I have not read the book, but if Dr. J states that a 3500 calorie deficit equals a pound of fat lost it is suddenly making me rethink this whole JUDDD thing, as if he says that then I find myself wondering if everything about him is suspect.
Mmmm, yes that is what he says. I have typed it out straight from the book.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #16
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Oh Mitsa how could you try to make me do math. It's like math to me to weigh myself lol. I hate math. Counting my calories is the only math I'll ever do. I thought we were friends.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #17
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I'll try to look where it is in the book. Later, Dr J says people living the JUDDD WOE lose faster than the formula. The he explains the SIR thing.

I assume he put the formula in so people like Adi can run the calculation then shrug and say, so?

I do not understand why he put the formula in the book. Actually, there is a heck of a lot in the book that I wonder about. I am glad I read this forum and started JUDDDing before I read the book...if I had read the book first, I probably would not have tried the WOE. And today several S/M size belts fit!

I do find there is a JUDDD/SIR core of info in the book that is very, very useful. Maybe all the other stuff is fluff so the book is more than twenty pages long?
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #18
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Oh Mitsa how could you try to make me do math. It's like math to me to weigh myself lol. I hate math. Counting my calories is the only math I'll ever do. I thought we were friends.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:02 PM   #19
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Lots of good points Judders.

Its definitely an interesting read.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:22 PM   #20
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I read the kindle version, and it was good - to the point where I said, "OK, this is based on some science," but then I just came and re-read all these thread. Much more informative! LOL real-life stuff and from real in the flesh ladies doing it. That's so much better!
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #21
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I read the kindle version, and it was good - to the point where I said, "OK, this is based on some science," but then I just came and re-read all these thread. Much more informative! LOL real-life stuff and from real in the flesh ladies doing it. That's so much better!
Wow C'Marie! Your loss is amazing! Congratulations on all your hard work paying off!
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:32 PM   #22
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Wow C'Marie! Your loss is amazing! Congratulations on all your hard work paying off!
Thanks, I'm going off the hcg protocol for summer and doing JUDDD !

My first UD will be THIS FRIDAY!

Hoping to maintain well, preserve/gain muscle, even if I don't lose, and lower inflammation during this process.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:36 PM   #23
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Wow C'Marie! Your loss is amazing! Congratulations on all your hard work paying off!
I agree! She has a lot of maintenance experience also! Thrilled to see her move over to JUDDD.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:31 PM   #24
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I hope you enjoy JUDDD, C'Marie -- I am, so far -- and I hope it gets me to goal. I'll eventually get on the scale, bit right now, i am trying to focus on just getting the hang of the rotations and getting out of the hcg mindset.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:50 AM   #25
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I hope you enjoy JUDDD, C'Marie -- I am, so far -- and I hope it gets me to goal. I'll eventually get on the scale, bit right now, i am trying to focus on just getting the hang of the rotations and getting out of the hcg mindset.
You will do amazingly well, because you are positive and determined.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:18 AM   #26
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I hope you enjoy JUDDD, C'Marie -- I am, so far -- and I hope it gets me to goal. I'll eventually get on the scale, bit right now, i am trying to focus on just getting the hang of the rotations and getting out of the hcg mindset.
Doesn't it amaze you how much energy we can have from a fasting day???
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:26 AM   #27
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Stats: 230/191/165 @5'9"tall and 60 yrs. alive
WOE: Dukan 8/1/11 and now JUDDD
Start Date: 8/1/11 RE-start 1/1/14
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimonkey View Post
I hope you enjoy JUDDD, C'Marie -- I am, so far -- and I hope it gets me to goal. I'll eventually get on the scale, bit right now, i am trying to focus on just getting the hang of the rotations and getting out of the hcg mindset.
Sounds like you are a wise woman, MM!
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:26 AM   #28
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Stats: 270/down 110-ish/ goal 147
WOE: hCG Rx shots/JUDDD maintain
Start Date: 1/4/2010 Now R9 P2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimonkey View Post
I hope you enjoy JUDDD, C'Marie -- I am, so far -- and I hope it gets me to goal. I'll eventually get on the scale, bit right now, i am trying to focus on just getting the hang of the rotations and getting out of the hcg mindset.
After losing 100+/- pounds on hcg I don't know if I even *could* at this point get out of the hcg mindset. I'm just *there* because it's worked for me. I'm going to focus on eating good food at the calorie levels on the JUDDD website and try to just enjoy the differences between the two systems. I have some fears that I will handle as they come up about *not* correcting but I will do my best because I guess every 500 calorie day IS a correction day. I guess if I get hardcore freaked out I can do a 500 calorie steak day, right???

QUESTION: I have read that on "induction" the two-week period you do 500 calorie DD no matter what your DD/UD calculator says; right? I get that. BUT I have read a couple people saying that you "eat to satisfaction" on UP days in those first 2 weeks. Don't I pay attention to UD calories on the first 2 weeks? My goal is not to lose weight, really, at this point, but to get the JUDDD magic flowing. What if "satisfaction" is only 2/3 of my UD calories? I don't get much of an appetite for awhile following P2 unless I force it and intentionally overeat, which I do NOT want to do. My last couple P3's I pushed the calories on purpose trying to get up to BMR to rev up the metabolism and I think it backfired on me. I am trying to learn to eat to hunger again.
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HCG Rx to lose - JUDDD to maintain

Last edited by C'Marie; 06-21-2012 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:38 AM   #29
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Location: Asheville, NC / Marietta, Ga
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Stats: 175/111.8/124 - 5'4, 61yo
WOE: JUDDD/PHD, LC now that my BG is getting weird
Start Date: JUDDD 1/1/12 + LCHF 12/1/13 (controlling diabetes)
Hey C'Marie

Our metabolisms are so different....and the rules seem to modify for some of us during the weight loss journey. I can only use myself as an example.

Most UDs I get full long before I reach the allocated calories. I seem to lose best, and keep all of those wonderful NSVs and DD/UD energy, if I get within 200 of each UD's goal. If I drop much below that amount for several consecutive UDs, I lose the NSVs, run low on energy, and my weight loss stalls (long story - big oopsie taught me this).

So, for my metabolism, if my UDs calculations are 1500, I need to eat at or above 1300 cals to maintain the magic.

For me, if I exceed 1700 on several consecutive UDs, my weight loss stalls or slows. (Once in awhile - over or under - is fine. Frequency seems to be the key for me.)

And, yes, 500 cal steak days are fine.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 06-21-2012 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:51 AM   #30
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Location: Heartland- smack dab in the middle
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Stats: 225/145/ ...
WOE: Perfect Health Diet- 16hr Daily Fast
Start Date: JUDDD - 2/01/12 Began at 200, Goal 130
Marie,
Since you are in maintenance, I believe you could do this because you are still getting the differential in UD/DD to activate Sirt-1.

I have not been doing this long enough to be the JUDDD expert and of course, I am not at goal, but because I failed at getting my UD calories in, I truly obsessed over this.
I was spending too much time eating or drinking things that really didn't make me feel better or that I needed in order to meet the calorie requirment. Then I began reading, "Weight Loss Apocalypse" and listening to her Vlogs and had my own "light bulb" moment. I would rather have a bit slower losses and lower my UD, raise my DD and not make this WOE a job.
And if I overeat to meet the calorie requirement on UD, I do not feel like working out or exercising, which is defeating my whole health regimen! So I have gained back my daily exercise in the same token.

After all, I am doing exactly as Dr. J recommended but at 35% instead of 20. And I am practicing Robin's hunger scale in harmony with JUDDD!
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Last edited by sunday; 06-21-2012 at 11:08 AM..
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