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Old 06-18-2012, 05:52 PM   #1
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Full of questions today. Need answer for DH about UD calories?

My DH has been juddding with me for a few weeks now. He's a bigger guy, about 289 now and 6'1.

The problem I'm having is I've been spot checking his UD's and a lot of time he's no where near where he needs to be in terms of calories. For example today he pulled in right around 2000 calories and I convinced him to add in a couple hundred more to around 2300 but he says he's full and doesn't want any more food. The problem is he's supposed to have 3100 calories on UD's. So to do the math, if he eats 800 on DD's and 2200 or so on UD's that only nets him 1500 calories for the 2 days combined. I don't think that's enough but he seems to think its ok? He's losing weight but not as fast as me so I wonder is it NECESSARY to eat pretty close to your UD calories, especially for men?

I just want to be able to point him to something that shows him he needs to eat more (Don't I wish he could "gift" me some of his calories )
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:26 PM   #2
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:01 PM   #3
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Gosh, it's so different sometimes for the guys, it's hard to know exactly. But here are a few thoughts.

First of all, you say, ".....I've been spot checking his UD's and a lot of time he's no where near where he needs to be in terms of calories....." and a bit of the problem with this is that when you spot check, you may be eyeballing his servings, guesstimating how much that quantity is, and if you aren't actually weighing out and measuring out his food quantities, you may or may not be quite accurate. In other words, how certain are you as to his UD calories?

Then secondly, overall the studies show us that men lose weight at a more rapid rate than females do, but this is by no means a promise to them. Sadly, there are guys who struggle to lose the pounds every bit as much as many of us do, so he might just be a slow loser.

Another thought is this: The numbers you have for his UD/DD calories sounds like it's figured at the *sedentary/little or no exercise* level for calculation. But has he started exercising more recently? I ask only because if he is working out and building up some muscle, that could be adding weight to the scale which counters what would be shown as FAT loss. In other words, he could be losing more fat than the scale can tell him because it is going to show him the weight of added muscle at the same time.

Then too, at some point... that Up Day calorie number is entirely high enough. The fact that we can add in another 100 pounds and another 100 pounds and another 100 pounds to the calculation doesn't mean that our hypothetical morbidly obese guy really needs to be eating all those extra calories which are only based on a greater and greater body fat number.

Your DH is of a weight where even his DD don't have to be so-o-o-o low, and that being the case, he may very well not be all that hungry on his UDs. His 800 calorie Down Days allows for him to actually be able to eat pretty well, even on those *fasting* days, so maybe he just doesn't build up much appetite for his entire UD calories each and every UD.

If you prepare most of his meals at home, I'd just concentrate on making his UD meals delightful, delicious, and measured. Serve him his meals already plated, like he'd get in a restaurant, with his portions/calories as they should be, and then see what he can eat.

It's good to eat at our UD number when we can, but sometimes that doesn't quite get accomplished. And it still works out overall. Just try to actually measure his portions so you can keep a quite accurate calorie count for him, and also so that you can dish up the amount that will be good for him.

And I was going to add... I could eat his calorie allotment for UDs so easily it would make heads spin! And sometimes.. do.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:14 PM   #4
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Thanks Pat and Phoebe, I'm kind of a numbers nerd so I've been sending him prepackaged meals to work with very specific numbers so I *know* I'm pretty darn close in my calculations. Also anything he eats at home I individually wrap (such as treats etc) and use an online tracker so that I can tell him you ate X amount of calories for that. We had previously both low carbed and he always outpaced my weight by leaps and bounds but that is what I assumed men do. The problem may lie in the fact he's been taking lean cuisines on both down days and up days and so a big meal usually only is 250 calories or so.

He is hypothyroid thus the weight problem but is now sufficiently medicated. I hate to force feed him but I'm almost certain he needs a pretty high spread at his size. Unfortunately, most JUDDDer's don't have a huge amount to lose so I can't glean any knowledge on how a larger body reacts to different calorie levels. (BTW he's doing right at 25% weight loss so his calories on DD's could in theory be lower but he's just stared and I didn't want to push it)

I did finally get him to drink 2 glasses of wine and a beer and then "force" a big bowl of buttered popcorn on him while he watched his show which pushed him just a little under his allotment. Poor thing has to eat so much every day I really feel sorry for him Oh wait, no I don't.

Last edited by brewstate; 06-18-2012 at 07:15 PM..
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewstate View Post
Thanks Pat and Phoebe, I'm kind of a numbers nerd so I've been sending him prepackaged meals to work with very specific numbers so I *know* I'm pretty darn close in my calculations. Also anything he eats at home I individually wrap (such as treats etc) and use an online tracker so that I can tell him you ate X amount of calories for that. We had previously both low carbed and he always outpaced my weight by leaps and bounds but that is what I assumed men do. The problem may lie in the fact he's been taking lean cuisines on both down days and up days and so a big meal usually only is 250 calories or so.

He is hypothyroid thus the weight problem but is now sufficiently medicated. I hate to force feed him but I'm almost certain he needs a pretty high spread at his size. Unfortunately, most JUDDDer's don't have a huge amount to lose so I can't glean any knowledge on how a larger body reacts to different calorie levels. (BTW he's doing right at 25% weight loss so his calories on DD's could in theory be lower but he's just stared and I didn't want to push it)

I did finally get him to drink 2 glasses of wine and a beer and then "force" a big bowl of buttered popcorn on him while he watched his show which pushed him just a little under his allotment. Poor thing has to eat so much every day I really feel sorry for him Oh wait, no I don't.
LOLing at this!

Maybe just reserve the Lean Cuisine packaged meals for his DD lunches but hunt over the offerings of all the brands of frozen meals and find ones with higher calories to send with him on his UDs. Throw in a *snack pak* that you fix him with cheese slices and black olives, or something that gets some calories in. The cheese and olives could easily add in another 300+ calories in addition to the higher calorie frozen dinner for his lunch.

I'm sorry he is hypothyroid. I am too. It certainly doesn't help. :-(
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:47 PM   #6
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This is one of the big divides on this board--whether you "have" to eat all your UD calories.

Some people find they do, but some people lose better on lower amounts.
Another argument "for" is that if one's calories are low during weight loss, they may end up being low during maintenance.
It is assumed/hoped that pushing one's UD calories higher will force the body to be better at burning excess calories.
IIRC, Dr J says it's a guideline/ceiling--you don't HAVE to eat every single one of your calories.

Something you could do--since you like numbers --is calculate his lean body mass, or put his goal weight into the calculator, and see what the maintenance calories for that would be. Many diet plans, such as Protein Power, suggest doing this (especially when a person has a significant amount of weight to lose [50-100+lbs] and/or a high body fat %). Perhaps he is intuitively eating to this level.

If his calories are below that level, then I would try to "force" at least enough calories and protein to preserve his LBM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #7
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Elise my comrad! My DH makes me feel like a pig lol. He never gets his UD calories in.Hes 6 ft 3 in. I'm 5 ft and I get mine in ugh! Although mine are a lot less than his. He only really needs to lose maybe 15 lbs. He lost about 15 lb on Adkins with me. I told him he's getting peckish. I've been trying to get him to eat a candy bar. Don't you just want to punch them?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
This is one of the big divides on this board--whether you "have" to eat all your UD calories.

Some people find they do, but some people lose better on lower amounts.
Another argument "for" is that if one's calories are low during weight loss, they may end up being low during maintenance.
It is assumed/hoped that pushing one's UD calories higher will force the body to be better at burning excess calories.
IIRC, Dr J says it's a guideline/ceiling--you don't HAVE to eat every single one of your calories.

Something you could do--since you like numbers --is calculate his lean body mass, or put his goal weight into the calculator, and see what the maintenance calories for that would be. Many diet plans, such as Protein Power, suggest doing this (especially when a person has a significant amount of weight to lose [50-100+lbs] and/or a high body fat %). Perhaps he is intuitively eating to this level.

If his calories are below that level, then I would try to "force" at least enough calories and protein to preserve his LBM.
"Dr J says its a guideline/ceiling-- you dont HAVE to eat every single one of your calories"

Really ???????? If that's what he says (btw, i dont know, im still waiting for the book so i can have a read), then why do alot of Judders stress the point to eat all ud calories? Just asking
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:59 AM   #9
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As I poke around the internet, I realize how sparse - and how very theoretical - medicine's knowledge of metabolism (and nutrition) really is.

2200 calories is right around the low end of your DH's RMR (online calculation +- 14%). Theory from many of the sources I have read says eating anything above RMR should be enough to convince your body the famine is over and keep JUDDD magic going. From the numbers I have seen on this board, theory is inaccurate and most people need to eat at or above the high end of the RMR (RMR + 14%) calculation to lose consistently. (RMR + 14% is still less than calculated UD cals.)

If he is truly breaking DD's caloric stress response, then he will continue to lose while maintaining or increasing energy. If he is losing because he is eating low cal, he will stall and/or lose energy. Give it another week and you should be able to tell which it is.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 06-19-2012 at 05:01 AM..
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:07 AM   #10
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:09 AM   #11
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Pat, Nancy, PJ et al you are an amazing wealth of knowledge and I think you've made me understand it a little better.

I'm still not sure if you have to eat *all* your calories (my question is who wouldn't want to?) but I'm going to have him look at his Base metabolic rate, which is I believe is 2500 or so and have him eat at least over that maybe plus a little.

He's a scientist so I can use everybody's numbers to convince him I'm right and if that doesn't work I'll beat him over the head until he yields to my way of thinking
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewstate View Post
.... if that doesn't work I'll beat him over the head until he yields to my way of thinking
A plan spouses have been using successfully since the first caveman and cavelady tried to decide where to put the rock (couch).
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:23 AM   #13
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FROM DR J'S WEBSITE: If you're not as hungry on Up Days, it's okay to eat less than your regular daily allowance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsa View Post
"Dr J says its a guideline/ceiling-- you dont HAVE to eat every single one of your calories"

Really ???????? If that's what he says (btw, i dont know, im still waiting for the book so i can have a read), then why do alot of Judders stress the point to eat all ud calories? Just asking
My guess is because it's what worked for them.

Perhaps I should say--yes, it seems that it's best if you eat to or near your maintenance calories.
But that varies for everyone (even if they have the same stats as someone else), and the calculator on the JUDDD website is not infallible.

Calorie calculators that take into account body fat percentage give me a very different number than the JUDDD calculator.

Over & over & over I have seen people on this forum having trouble with WL or maintenance, then they adjust their calories by as little as 100 or 200 per UD, or per DD, or both, and it makes a HUGE difference.

Please check out post #9 from leo41 on this thread:
can not eating up to my calories on a UD cause a stall?

I don't want to re-start any argument or misunderstanding, just pointing out the source of my info!

PS--I think OhioGuy is one who found that eating under his UD cals (but adding those cals to his DD) helped him start losing really quickly, when he had been bouncing a lot and not losing for a couple weeks.

(sorry about threadjack)

Last edited by piratejenny; 06-19-2012 at 07:45 AM.. Reason: PS
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