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-   -   I believe I had an epiphany...my longest post ever. (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/772984-i-believe-i-had-epiphany-my-longest-post-ever.html)

2BoysMom 05-29-2012 11:16 PM

I believe I had an epiphany...my longest post ever.
For those of you who have been around for a while, you know that one of my problem areas have been around travel - both business and personal. I just cannot seem to stay on track on my DD's when I don't have as many tools to control my food and when it is in abundance all around me.

Now, that's not to say I intend go crazy on them (trust me I go in with the BEST of intentions), but I as soon as I get to that place that I have eaten more than my "limit" this then leads me to be inclined to throw in the towel and go WAY overboard and then wallow in frustration. I come back 3 lbs or so heavier, and then start the journey to take that off and get back on track.

Well, I have several trips coming up, which is getting me stressed out more than you can imagine, as I feel like I am in a really good space right now - one in which the first week is business and the next 2 personal, so 3 weeks long! Argh.

Also, I noticed a lot of chatter lately about events coming up (weddings, graduations, BBQ's, parties, vacations, etc.... and how to handle them) and anyway in thinking about all of this I kind of had an "ah-ha" moment.

OK - So, we have all calculated our UD and DD cals. Now some have chosen DD cals based on the "less must be better/quicker" school of thought (warning, not always true), others have picked a number somewhere in the middle of the range, others have found a "sweet spot" that works for them and some have found what they think they can live with even if it is a bit higher.

The reality, though is - while our UD numbers are relatively static no matter what the rate of loss is we want, there is a lot of variability to that DD number depending on how we calculate it. There is also the wild-card of exercise. Let me give you an example.

I will work with my current weight instead of where I started.

(174.8 - I rounded up to 175 :hyst:, 48 years old, 5'5". Now I do exercise regularly, but like most of us chose the sedentary option for purposes of this example)

20% 1796/358
25% 1796/449
30% 1796/539
35% 1796/629

Now we move onto the cusp of weight loss/maintenance:

40% 1796/718
45% 1796/808

And finally maintenance:

50% 1796/898
55% 1796/988
60% 1796/1078

Now - the reason behind this long winded demonstration is to show really what a wide range we really have with our DD's before any real damage is done. Perhaps if I normally were to be at 25% and 449 - when I go on a trip, I might be ok to instead stay in weight loss mode, but move up to 35% or 629. Hmmmm, or maybe even weight loss/maintenance - and be in the 700-800 range. Well, now that is sounding less stressful already. I could hypothetically even say that I am going into maintenance while traveling and go back into weight loss mode when I get back into a more normal routine. (THAT gives me 900ish to almost 1100 calories - yowza!)

All of those options mean I can stay on track - maybe slow down a bit, but still stay on track and in control.

My point here is that just because you have determined your "business as usual" calories to be at a certain level, doesn't mean that you can't create a new "normal" for an event or a short period of time. If you normally eat at 358 (which I can't even imagine...relatively sure I would end up gnawing on my arm), just because you go up to 600 doesn't mean you "blew it" - it means you are just eating at a different weight loss level.

Also on the topic of exercise - most of us don't "take back" (I.e. chow down) those calories - BUT that doesn't mean you can't. There are some schools of thought that actually say you should to keep the motor revving, and keep the metabolism going strong.

So, having said all this, I have a new outlook for when I travel, and plan to

1) Adjust up my DD calories. If I don't need them, no harm, no foul, go Me! Not a plan to go crazy, still staying in weight loss mode, just at the higher end. I really think this will keep me from feeling so much anxiety about the whole thing. Also if I hit maintenance levels periodically, well, that's ok, too. NOT gaining while traveling will be great, losing will be a super duper bonus.

2) Exercise whenever I can and log those calories burned. And if I need them - then I will use them! Again, if I don't need them to stay in check, then great! But if I do, I'll have them in reserve to get me through and still have a great experience. This will give me some real motivation to get into the gym at the hotel, swim some laps, go for a hike, a bike ride, a walk with my family...all that good stuff. Stuff I do regularly at home anyway, but manage to avoid when I travel - particularly for business.

Anyway, this may seem like an obvious point to most of you - but for me, I get so fixated on "that number" that I have decided is right for me that I sometimes think that I forget that it is just one within a wide range of numbers that can also be very effective, and that there are ways to earn more of them if needed and I need a bonk on the head to get myself out of tunnel vision.

I plan to copy the info above into a reminder on my phone, too, so that when I feel myself getting crazified, I can pull it out and remember...

Whew. My fingers are cramping now....:lol:

CC3 05-29-2012 11:48 PM

You might think this is weird, but I was thinking along these same lines earlier today.

I have trouble staying below 500 cals on DD during a weekend, but I do stay around 800. This was making me feel like a failure. Then a question started rattling around in my head asking, isn't 800 calories better than the mindless, random eating I used to do on the weekends?

Thanks for posting and answering my question.

piratejenny 05-29-2012 11:51 PM

I'm glad you've found a way to make JUDDD less stressful! :)

A few months ago, I made a chart so
--(a) I wouldn't have to run to Dr J's calculator so often, &
--(b) I could easily look at my options on "difficult" DDs

I won't put the whole thing here; just a couple things to support your point:
25%+no exercise=594 calorie DDs
45%+moderate ex=1380 cals

PS--700 or 800 calories may seem even more doable while traveling or for special events if you're the kind of person who can save (most of) them for one meal. I sometimes find that easier to do while happy & excited on vacation than when bored at home! :laugh:

piratejenny 05-30-2012 12:06 AM


Originally Posted by CC3 (Post 15688472)
I have trouble staying below 500 cals on DD during a weekend, but I do stay around 800. This was making me feel like a failure. Then a question started rattling around in my head asking, isn't 800 calories better than the mindless, random eating I used to do on the weekends?

Yes, it is better!:up:

In the beginning, if I went "over" on a DD, I'd often think, Oh, might as well make it an UD & try to do a better DD tomorrow. But when I started looking at the range of %ages, I realized I had more options!

Even when I wasn't (or am not, lol) getting that JUDDD magic, every day--attempted DD, on-plan UDs & DDs, UUADs!!!--has been a lesson in being mindful of portions & ingredients, trying new foods & recipes, and paying attention to my body's signals.

2BoysMom 05-30-2012 12:13 AM


Originally Posted by piratejenny (Post 15688475)
I'm glad you've found a way to make JUDDD less stressful! :)

A few months ago, I made a chart so
--(a) I wouldn't have to run to Dr J's calculator so often, &
--(b) so I could easily look at my options on "difficult" DDs

I won't put the whole thing here; just a couple things to support your point:
25%+no exercise=594 calorie DDs
45%+moderate ex=1380 cals

EXACTLY!! It was such a d'uh :doh: moment when it actually came together in my head (I swear I actually heard the light bulb go off!) - but you said it so much more succinctly than I did!

It really does make sense!

Joyjoy 05-30-2012 01:32 AM

Marianne, this is interesting. Thanks to you and pj for the thoughts. I hope this means that you'll write as much during your upcoming trip. I'm looking forward to seeing your results. If this works as well as I hope it does for you, I can see a few more margaritas and s&v chips in my travel future.
Really, you know, this diet isn't science. It is theory, with some good evidence behind it, being applied, now, by all of us. :heart:It's kind of exciting to think that you'll be adding to the juddd knowledge base for all of us All the best,

KeirasMom 05-30-2012 06:12 AM

Marianne, I tend to get fixated by the numbers too. I decided to go into "maintenance" for a bit to give my body a break, but I was too afraid of the much higher numbers, so I chose one in the middle. It's technically still WLM, but I really didn't trust the higher numbers wouldn't make me gain.

Anywho, I picked 750 as my DD limit, and I honestly rarely get close. Just knowing those extra calories are there, has really relieved me of a great deal of stress. Sometimes I go up that high, once I've gone over, but usually I'm under. I'm still losing, though slower, but I can't tell you how wonderful it feels to not be pushing myself so, so hard!

I have a list of my percentages/calories on a post-it on my laptop here at home, on my computer at work, and a note on my kindle. So you can see, I'm still obsessed with numbers, just not with keeping them so low. :hyst: It works, and it's healthy for those of us with a touch of OCD.

Kissa 05-30-2012 06:14 AM

Brilliant post Marianne, and all so true.

I hope lots of people see this, it is so reassuring to know that going 'over' your DD cals does not mean you have 'failed'.

Enjoy your travels!

Terilynn 05-30-2012 06:26 AM

Funny - I had decided the exact same thing about a week ago and made the chart - it is sitting right on my desk. It really helps mentally!

Lianora Mosswood 05-30-2012 06:42 AM

Very interesting post! I have just started something similar.

For most of April and May, I was having a hard time sticking to my rotation, mostly due to a lot of unavoidable stress. Needless to say, I was losing and gaining the same 3 or 4 pounds.

About 10 days ago, I had a flash. I recalculated my calories based on my current weight and noted the DD cals from 60% maintenance down to 20% WLM. Each DD, I went to the next lower number as a way to get back into a decent calorie rotation. Today is day 10. Since my last weigh on 5/23, I've lost 1.2 pounds and I have only gotten to the 40% loss calories. And I broke through to a new low weight. So far, so good. I've been able to stick to a pattern of DD/UD.

If I really need to for some reason, I can jump back up the DD allotment, up to the 60% number, and not totally blow it. My UD eating is close to 1480/day, sometimes a little more or less.

I'm shooting to get to the 20% WLM number, 296, which will be miraculous, since I have hardly ever been able to get to below 500. When I get to a 5 pound loss, I'll recalc, because that will put me really really close to goal where every calorie is going to count.


All of these options mean I can stay on track - maybe slow down a bit, but still stay on track and in control.
Yes! Absolutely brilliant!

sterlinggirl 05-30-2012 06:43 AM

:goodpost: I hope our newbies read this due to so many feel that sticking with such a low number is not posible or even comfortable.. To know what your DD celing is at maintanience should be a comfort to those who do have a party or function with in the rotation ,that its ok to go as high as "blank" and not ruin all there progress! This was a well timed post once agin.. I am happy you took the time to cramp your fingers on this one~:hugs:

2BoysMom 05-30-2012 07:28 AM

Thanks all, I really do hope this is helpful - it was such a watershed moment for me when it all came together, and I have read so many with such anxiety/angst lately about HAVING to stick to those DD numbers (some which are startelingly low), accompanied by social anxiety around events and food that I was really hoping this might alleviate that a bit.

Beeb 05-30-2012 08:09 AM

One smart JUDDD BUDDD and a :goodpost: :up::clap:

mykidsteacher 05-30-2012 08:55 AM

Brilliant post.

And it should help with those "oh I went over, should tomorrow be another dd" questions. If you are still within DD cals, even the highest maintenance level, you've done a DD, and should proceed with the UD the next day. Even if you end up at a MD, you should still do UD cals the following day. Only if you actually get within 100 cals of you UD cals should you consider the next day being a DD.

Scotty 05-30-2012 09:10 AM

Marianne What was interesting to me is the static nature of the UDs, even when the DDs go up. That's what has been doing me in-going over my UD allowance. I stick to the DD-341, actually pretty well, because I know that's IT. The UDs just get carried away by the tide of wine or snacking. Thus, I am not doing well, I am sure...:o :(

RenoMom 05-30-2012 09:54 AM

:goodpost: Very interesting thats for sure.

vanilla_latte 05-30-2012 10:03 AM

Marianne, what an excellent post and may have me rethinking my current rotation. I guess I thought, despite this being my second go 'round with JUDDD (if you don't count all the half starts in between :o ), that if I went over my 20% DD cals or at most over the 500 on any DD, that it was blown and should be an UD or at best, a MD.

Even with that said, I had had these thoughts before about if I was staying within the WLM percentages, I was still doing good. Just never put it into practice I suppose and wanted to adhere to 500 or less on any DD, come H-E-double-hockey-sticks or high water.

Since I really, really ... really, really like every Saturday being an UD, I think I could still use this rationale instead of having to work in a MD day.

I must think on this ....

brehede 05-30-2012 02:34 PM

Thanks Marianne, that is a very useful way of looking at DDs and rotation!


circusgirl 05-30-2012 02:45 PM

awesome! I had this basic realization but couldn't have really put words to it earlier this week. I am doing the same thing, and MAN is it mentally freeing! Thanks for the post!!

Muffabuff 05-30-2012 03:22 PM

Marianne your post was really quite brilliant. What a great and insightful way of keeping Juddd working for you in varying situations. Your avi should have a little light bulb over your head:hyst: I suppose if one needed a break one could always go into maintence for a week or two, enjoy the extra calories and just take a little time out and refresh. No harm no foul.:jumpjoy: I so happy for you that you had your light bulb moment and how great that you shared it with all of your Buddds:hugs:.I have no doubt that this will work out wonderfully for you.of course you will keep us up to date:up:

oropendola 05-30-2012 05:26 PM

Thank you SO much! I can stress less about this long weekend and plan accordingly!
I've copied and pasted it into my calendar to remind me daily while I'm away.
Thank you Thank you!

Abby 05-30-2012 05:33 PM

Great post, Marianne:).......

Of course, the purists would say that use of a maintenance calorie count on a DD is a cave-in. I disagree. Sometimes, real life can and does intervene.

Since I plan to use JUDDD only on a maintenance basis, I'll be able to follow your guidance without feeling guilty. The generous maintenance levels will be SOP for my DD. For now, I like the more aggressive weight loss associated with Stillman.

Thanks for your compilation,

cuttie99 05-31-2012 10:25 AM

I consider myself still a newbie so please don't laugh too hard at me...:lol: but how is this different from a MD?

lets say you did the 60% mode 1796/1078

An Md day would be 1437 cals.

I have read we need to avoid Md is possible because they can cause stalls. Are you saying you should just eat 1078 instead of 1437 and you will still be in good shape and haven't blown it? :dunno: Is that the idea?

Or even better by doing 45% 1796/808....

Sorry for the simplicity here :stars:

thanks for sharing your idea!!

sterlinggirl 05-31-2012 10:41 AM

Um i am not sure how to answer your question Cuttie99.. But i decdied to take this post for a whirl yesterday.. and i ate up to 950 caloires.( normal downdays 120-150) and i did not gain an ounce! I just wanted to see "what" would happen if i actually ate that much on a down day~:jumpjoy:.. Today i am back to noraml rotation of an UD and will choose to repete my high number of950 on Sunday and see what it does lol.. To think i have been starving on a down day with the same results as a moderate day was amazing to me.. I expected to see a gain~ Wow ,, what fun this was~:heart:
Oh and Cutie99.. the MD really should be avoided durring the first few weeks of starting JUDDD.. I am pretty sure that once you have been on it for like a month or so, that the ocational moderate eating on a down day has lil or no effect , thats why they say,,JUDDD is forgiving"

sorenkkg 05-31-2012 12:01 PM

Hi Marianne!

I'm traveling a lot for work now too, and came to the same realization. We have an arsenal of tools-- higher DD by a couple hundred "points" or a MD... My last trip wasn't a great example, but the 2 trips before, I followed the rotations, incl a 700 DD and a couple MD so that my actual travel days were UDs (which for me is key, b/c air travel and low blood sugar just don't mix in my world).

So, just saying, I think your ah-ha is a really good one, and know that there's at least 1 other traveler out there doing the same thing!

sunday 05-31-2012 01:05 PM

Hey all! I have been doing this since the last week of school, May 7 and it has helped me to shake a few lbs! Well, 2.8, but let me tell you it is much more fun than keeping the 330 DD!!! :p

I had decided to just go into maintaining while vacationing, but then realized that I am allowed 700 cals for DD at 35% and still be able to have at least one WONDERFUL dinner on DD. :up: So, I lowered my UD to 1700 and brought DD up to 700 and it is feeling great. Also, I do not bounce!!! My weight has been just slowly dropping with a couple of whooshes. :cool:

Joyjoy 05-31-2012 01:12 PM

Sunday, that is SO interesting. Can I ask, is that loss slower, faster, or the same as before May 7th?

sunday 05-31-2012 04:41 PM

Faster, because I had slowed down to a crawl, the last days of April. By May 7, I was ready to try something new, anything! I still have 30 more to lose, so after all of my fun and travel slows down about July, I will hop back on the 20% again. :clap:

sunday 05-31-2012 04:43 PM

I gave up the wine also. :sad: Don't know if I will pick that back up though? I really want to shed the rest. So, my plan is to enjoy only birthdays and special occasions with wine until I get to my goal and then I can have wine anytime!

2BoysMom 05-31-2012 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by sunday (Post 15692972)
Faster, because I had slowed down to a crawl, the last days of April. By May 7, I was ready to try something new, anything! I still have 30 more to lose, so after all of my fun and travel slows down about July, I will hop back on the 20% again. :clap:

So, allow me to ask....if what you are doing now is resulting in steady losses and no bouncing....why would you go back to 20%?

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