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Old 05-27-2012, 04:35 PM   #1
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Working out approx weight loss

Now, i was thinking about something last night. and couldnt sleep.

With our ud and dd calories known, with the ud cals taking into account exercise/activity, then im assuming the high number takes into account our BMR ?
Most diets/ food plans find the bmr, multiply it with an activity factor and the number that comes up is maintenance cals. Then they generally take off 500 cals or more to create the calorie deficit, thus being able to work out whether it will be 1 lb or 2 lb lost etc that week.

So, with Juddd, knowing our average cals per day UD + DD divide by 2, cant we roughly work out how much weight will be lost? Am i making sense?
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #2
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If you can gather as much information as possible on yourself and how you lose, and you have good record-keeping, you can start to make some smart guesses about your rate of loss and what to expect in the future, yes. I think that's very do-able with some time, and cool, too.

But as far as gathering across-the board knowledge that would apply in general, I don't think so. The variables are too great to be overcome to calculate that for a variety of people. And the truth is, we don't always know all the facts about OURSELVES.

For two persons to assume they'll lose the same amount of weight for the same amount of effort, they would have to be the same sex and age (big variable) and they would have to be the same weight to begin with.

Even if Dr. Johnson's calculator has partially accounted for those variables, the two metabolisms would be so different. What is the ratio of muscle to fat? What is the bone structure?

Also, one might have hypothyroidism, the other be pre-diabetic, and neither one have even a suspected diagnosis yet. One might be in peri-menopause already, while the other will wait another 10 years on it and neither one of them know that yet! One might have been roller-coaster dieting for years, while the other never dieted before. One doesn't know how sedentary he really is, and the other is a "fidgeter" who is never still all day long, but thinks he's doing nothing.

And we haven't even gotten into how much stress each has, or whether either one of them ever gets enough sleep!
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Whitlin' View Post
If you can gather as much information as possible on yourself and how you lose, and you have good record-keeping, you can start to make some smart guesses about your rate of loss and what to expect in the future, yes. I think that's very do-able with some time, and cool, too.

But as far as gathering across-the board knowledge that would apply in general, I don't think so. The variables are too great to be overcome to calculate that for a variety of people. And the truth is, we don't always know all the facts about OURSELVES.

For two persons to assume they'll lose the same amount of weight for the same amount of effort, they would have to be the same sex and age (big variable) and they would have to be the same weight to begin with.

Even if Dr. Johnson's calculator has partially accounted for those variables, the two metabolisms would be so different. What is the ratio of muscle to fat? What is the bone structure?

Also, one might have hypothyroidism, the other be pre-diabetic, and neither one have even a suspected diagnosis yet. One might be in peri-menopause already, while the other will wait another 10 years on it and neither one of them know that yet! One might have been roller-coaster dieting for years, while the other never dieted before. One doesn't know how sedentary he really is, and the other is a "fidgeter" who is never still all day long, but thinks he's doing nothing.

And we haven't even gotten into how much stress each has, or whether either one of them ever gets enough sleep!
yeh ok, i see what you are saying. Good points made, thanks for sharing.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:27 AM   #4
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Dr J's calculation of UD calories appears to begin with a BMR formula that includes age/height/weight/exercise level then adds about 200 calories. I think this is to ensure, on average over all those complex variables, most people who eat near their UD calories will ensure they break the caloric stress response and stop sirtuin enzyme production at some point on UD. Breaking this level is key to ensuring we are not eating just another low-cal diet.

As Whitlin' says, in reality there are so many variables at play that the best Dr J could do on his website was approximate numbers that should apply to most people. In theory, if you knew everything about your health and metabolism and reaction (like allergies) to foods, you should be able to calculate precisely what it would take to lose at a specific rate. In reality (the place I prefer to spend my time), we have very knowledgeable medical professionals on this forum who are as as the rest of us.

So, we work from trial and error. There really, really is more going on here than two-day caloric averaging. On DD you have to find the low caloric intake that sends your body into stress response and generates lots of those lovely sirtuin enzymes. On UD you have to find the broader and higher caloric range that turns off the enzyme production but does not overwhelm your body with so many calories that it cannot burn them all - or some of them have to be stored as fat. By tuning our DD/UD calories, we eventually find the range that works best for each individual's body.

Then, as we lose weight, our metabolism and our BMR changes, and we sometimes find we must begin the trial and error all over again...but we sure look and feel better by the time that happens.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 05-28-2012 at 03:29 AM..
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:50 AM   #5
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It finally dawned on me that the UD calories are very much a variable and given my particular profile I needed to cut my UD intake to lose.

If you cut 500 calories off your UD normal needs (usually around 2000) and stick to 500 DD then you should lose 2 lbs a week. I've not found that stopped the appetite suppression. In fact it gets better. But maybe you need to do generous UDs for a month to switch on the gene.

I like to tinker with numbers. I find it reassuring to know that my diet is such that I really have to lose weight. That way when the scale sticks I am still motivated to keep to the plan.

I am not such a JUDDD purist as some here. If I had time I would try and do it the correct way but I need that weight off quickly and my Graduation Ceremony dress sliding on!
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazer View Post
It finally dawned on me that the UD calories are very much a variable and given my particular profile I needed to cut my UD intake to lose.

If you cut 500 calories off your UD normal needs (usually around 2000) and stick to 500 DD then you should lose 2 lbs a week. I've not found that stopped the appetite suppression. In fact it gets better. But maybe you need to do generous UDs for a month to switch on the gene.

I like to tinker with numbers. I find it reassuring to know that my diet is such that I really have to lose weight. That way when the scale sticks I am still motivated to keep to the plan.

I am not such a JUDDD purist as some here. If I had time I would try and do it the correct way but I need that weight off quickly and my Graduation Ceremony dress sliding on!
Totally understand about the dress.

My UD cals are only 1490. I dont feel i can cut 500 off that at this point

I agree though about switching on the gene. Im glad its working for you.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:12 AM   #7
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For me, I discovered it's just not that simple. It's not as straight forward as calories in and calories burned. I wish it were. LOL
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:06 AM   #8
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I think that Juddd *PROVES* it's not just about calories in/out.

For example, check out this thread--
IT’S ALL TRUE!!!! (Long)
Someone who was struggling to maintain weight on 1000 calories/day, and feeling very unhealthy, lost weight & got healthy quickly by eating about 1500/500. Same calories every two days!!!

It seems everyone has to experiment to find their "sweet spot" for weight loss. Some people who have been losing/maintaining well suddenly gain weight if they cut calories!!!

So it's not just about the calorie deficit.

I also think the anti-infammatory effect of JUDDD/IF causes weight/size loss that has nothing to do with calories or fat. Everything just shrinks!
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Last edited by piratejenny; 05-28-2012 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I think that Juddd *PROVES* it's not just about calories in/out.

For example, check out this thread--
IT’S ALL TRUE!!!! (Long)
Someone who was struggling to maintain weight on 1000 calories/day, and feeling very unhealthy, lost weight & got healthy quickly by eating about 1500/500. Same calories every two days!!!

It seems everyone has to experiment to find their "sweet spot" for weight loss. Some people who have been losing/maintaining well suddenly gain weight if they cut calories!!! So it's not just about the calorie deficit.
This exactly! Thank you PJ. It really isn't just about calories in/out, or we'd all have the magic, perfect formula and be living in our forever slim and trim bodies. There are many other factors at play, and JUDDD seems to bring them all together into a witches brew of all the right ingredients to create the magic.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:29 AM   #10
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So glad you remembered to post that particular thread, PirateJenny!

I think it's a mistake to think of, and use, JUDDD as just another low calorie weight loss plan, tweaking your numbers to hopefully control and direct your weight loss, etc. It doesn't always work, and it can backfire.

Example: We will use a hypothetical woman, age 40, who weighs 170 pounds and is 5 feet & 7 inches tall, and does little or no *exercise* beyond her normal active life.

The Freedieting site (very popular) gives her 1770 calories daily to maintain herself at her current weight. That is 3540 calories every two days... and 12,390 calories for a week. (And remember, this *maintenance* calorie number is assuming that her metabolism is operating normally, so this is her maintenance number... If she's overweight, her metabolism is probably not operating optimally, so this number would probably be too high for her, but anyway....)

Say she wants to lose two pounds a week. The Calories In / Calories Out Rule tells us that there are 3500 calories making up a pound of body fat, so our hypothetical woman will need to cut her weekly calorie total down by 7000 calories total, to lose those two pounds.

That only leaves 5390 calories left of her weekly maintenance calorie number. That comes to just 770 calories per day, or 1540 calories every two days. ACK! Hard way to lose two pounds a week! :-0

To lose weight on JUDDD, this same woman is given 1826 calories on her UDs, and her choice of percentages of that for her DDs, but let's hold her to 500 calorie DDs. That gives her 2326 calories every two days in weight loss mode! That's 1163 calories daily average during weight loss, and many who are quite similar in stats to this woman are easily averaging two pounds a week of weight loss.

Eating more calories and losing two pounds a week. So where are those extra calories that are supposed to be skipped but are being eaten.. going? Our lady is eating them on JUDDD. So how can she be losing two pounds a week? And yet, so many do.

If you are counting on figuring your numbers and tweaking them to foretell and design your weight loss, you've given up most of your food for the week, and most of your nutritional support. And certainly most of your pleasant meals. And the saddest thing of it all is, you can't count on those calorie numbers producing the results you are counting on.

It's not fair, but this is another thing that just isn't even for us all, straight across the board. Two women can have the same stats and situations and activity levels, and eat the same calories from mostly the same food choices, and they won't necessarily lose weight at the same pace. Regardless of the numbers, some of us just lose slower than others. There is so much more involved than just the calories.

The thing is, this plan finally fixed me back up, after my attempts had pretty much fouled me up! I stick by it now, and it's made a great difference for me. I wouldn't screw this up for all the tea in China!
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #11
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Good post everyone! I so appreciate how much goes in to your thought lines and calculations. We are all so different. I have to average about 1000/day to lose, but I am older and on this forum not so much wiser I'm afraid. Keep the good stuff coming because I certainly do read what you have to say. This is honestly a great forum and I am so blessed to be able to learn here.

Cheers!
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:09 PM   #12
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Great posts from everyone.
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