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Old 05-05-2012, 04:23 AM   #1
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Springtime Slowdown Theory

Okay, so from January 1 until the end of the first week in March, I lost 19 pounds on JUDDD. From the second week of March to last Monday, I lost 6 pounds.

Not a stall. JUDDD has not stopped working. The inches are still coming off and I have all kinds of wonderful health-related NSVs happening. Sirtuin enzymes are doing their thing - I had an up-up-and-away four day weekend and only gained 3 pounds (which I lost days after returning to the DD/UD rotation).

But the scale is bouncing slowly, slowly down.

Which is okay. If that is the way my body needs to handle weight-loss, I can live (and gradually lose) that way. I all the wonderful things JUDDD is doing to me.

BUT, those of you who know me also know I can't leave a puzzle alone. Why the slowdown?

Actually, after much thought, I have three ideas...which may be working in concert....or may each, individually be enough to cause a weight loss slowdown.

Idea 1) The beginning of the slowdown coincided with the beginning of the pollen season. JUDDD is supposed to help many allergy sufferers. But I have one heck of a reaction to pollen. Maybe next Spring, after over a year of JUDDD I will not need anti-histamines and decongestants and gauifenesin. This year, I do.

I know all of these drugs play havoc with my hydration levels. And hydration levels seem to be intimately integrated with fat. I suspect controlling my allergies is slowing my weight loss down.

I am really curious about the allergy thing. Is anyone else taking meds to get through the pollen season? Have they impacted your weight loss?

Idea 2) A few weeks ago I realized I was preparing, but not completely eating, meals that contained my UD calories. My appetite suppression was so strong, and my life so busy, that I was getting distracted and forgetting to clean my plate (except by scraping the leftovers into the trash). Result: I was not eating enough to break out of caloric stress response...and that is not a place the body naturally stays for long periods of time. I was tricking my body into slowing my metabolism and going into the dreaded starvation mode.

I started making a point of eating my UD dinner and expected to see a change. I didn't.

Idea 3) Good old appetite suppression. DD and UD, I drank about 30 cals of hwc in my morning coffee. Maybe I had a small salad, but usually I forgot all about lunch. I ate most of my DD and UD calories for dinner. Fast-5 right? Incorporating two kinds of IF, I should really be dropping weight.

Except I wasn't.

I finally got out the calendar, my eating log, a calculator, an abacus, and my common sense and did some serious research.

Eating only once a day on DD is NBD - whatever works on DD, works. BUT, eating only once a day on UD meant I was in caloric stress response from sometime the night after my UD meal until the beginning of my next UD meal. Roughly 48 hours of IF/caloric restriction. Too long.

Dr J (and other sources) say, on average, bodies go into starvation mode after 40 hours of IF/caloric restriction. I was putting myself into slow metabolism mode every UD.

Oh sure, I was pulling myself out again with each UD dinner. But I suspect by then the weight loss damage was done. Slowdown.

ARGH

So, now I am dividing my UD calories into three meals. Breakfast actually means BREAK my fast.

My energy levels are coming up. I am down almost two pounds this week (have not posted this yet - waiting to be sure it is real).

----------

Has anyone else noticed any or all of these patterns? Any other patterns you have noticed/suspect may cause slowdowns? This is really interesting to me!
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 05-05-2012 at 04:28 AM..
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:08 AM   #2
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hmmm

Maybet thats it then? I too had a bit of a slow down (hence my whine a week or two ago) and my allergie have played havoc with me lately... however, I am happy to report the scale is starting to drop again so i am very very happy to share

So hopefully we are all on a downward trend... and by summer we will be bikini ready...

Keep on keeping on JUDDD Buddds...

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Old 05-05-2012, 05:28 AM   #3
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Awww, what a nice thing to say Kimberly! You are so sweet and smart and really good!

Of course, what we are going through right now may be our bodies taking time they need to 'catch up' with our weight loss, like Yam-Yam wrote about in her great thread. But, when I really looked and thought about what I was doing, I sure found I had slipped into some strange habits.

K YOU wear the bikini! I'll stick to passed-her-prime-years-ago one-piece suits

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Old 05-05-2012, 05:38 AM   #4
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Very interesting Nancy.

My allergies have been terrible this season due to the crazy pollen counts and I have been taking Zyrtec AND using Flonase. I had a super, duper slow down as well which seems to have broken this morning. But I think it is totally plausible that allergies can play a roll in the slow down.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:46 AM   #5
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Nancy,
I've been looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Your #1 makes sense to me even before you take the meds. A general inflammatory state might change fluid retention levels. Meds could certainly compound that. #3 is interesting too. I've been wondering about that one with my own body, trying to "feel out" the point past which fasting is constructive for my DDs. I'll bet this interval changes with time on Juddd, age, perhaps even carb levels (?), etc. (The Muddders provide interesting anecdotal input on this one.) I wonder whether this one is both unique for each of us and a moving target.
Lastly, I'm curious about whether our bodies adapt to any dietary rhythm we establish. You find the JUDDD pattern that works for you, you ride it down the scale for a while, and your body accommodates. (Maybe some bodies do this more than others.) I wonder this because of the streams of thought out there suggesting that the "intermittent" part of IF is important. I see some interesting stories here, too, that may lean in that direction. Of course, the strict rotation seems essential for many of us too. Anyway, it made me wonder whether a period of random fasting days/periods might be a worthy experiment for some hardy, stalled soul.
I'd love to hear more thoughts on this. Thanks.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:46 AM   #6
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I can't find any rhyme or reason to mine. I always make sure to get my calories in, usually within 50 or so. I have allergies and take Benadryl at night, but I always have, so no change there. I was skipping breakfast most days, but have been eating 3 meals a day, UD or DD for a while with no change.

I will say, I have been having cramping and spotting. I have an IUD and haven't had a cycle in years, but it was due to come out a while ago (ahem, 2 years), and I know it's no longer effective, so I may be having issues with my girlie parts.

I measured on April 1st and then again on May 1st. To be perfectly honest, there was absolutely no change. That's when I started feeling bad about the slow results. It seems most people have either slow results on the scale, but inches are flying off, or they have really fast results on the scale, but don't see immediate results in inches. I'm not getting much of either right now.

My health has not improved this month either, despite taking thyroid medication now. I also wonder if my body is being stubborn because of the new illness and new medication. I was sure hoping it would improve by now though.

I know I'm no help, but wanted to put my experience out there in case anyone else has something similar going on. I'm going to keep on keeping on, and may go into maintenance for a couple of weeks or a month to give my body a break.

Nancy, I think your theories are all sound, and it could be either of the three or some diabolic combination of them all. I love that you're willing to experiment and track and help everyone out with your findings. You !
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Nancy,
I've been looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Your #1 makes sense to me even before you take the meds. A general inflammatory state might change fluid retention levels. Meds could certainly compound that. #3 is interesting too. I've been wondering about that one with my own body, trying to "feel out" the point past which fasting is constructive for my DDs. I'll bet this interval changes with time on Juddd, age, perhaps even carb levels (?), etc. (The Muddders provide interesting anecdotal input on this one.) I wonder whether this one is both unique for each of us and a moving target.
Lastly, I'm curious about whether our bodies adapt to any dietary rhythm we establish. You find the JUDDD pattern that works for you, you ride it down the scale for a while, and your body accommodates. (Maybe some bodies do this more than others.) I wonder this because of the streams of thought out there suggesting that the "intermittent" part of IF is important. I see some interesting stories here, too, that may lean in that direction. Of course, the strict rotation seems essential for many of us too. Anyway, it made me wonder whether a period of random fasting days/periods might be a worthy experiment for some hardy, stalled soul.
I'd love to hear more thoughts on this. Thanks.
Kristin
This is another idea I've been kicking around and have been thinking about it. I'm not sure how to mix it up though, other than hitting maintenance for a while and then coming back to the lower numbers. Any ideas or suggestions?

I'd love to go Sophie's route and really mix things up, but I still have so much to lose, I'm afraid I'll backslide.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:49 AM   #8
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I just started this WOE, so I don't know about Juddd. But when I lost 97 lbs on Atkins...taking allergy meds or antibiotics or whatever didn't affect my loss. I did learn that when I stalled....going extreme LC for a week got me going again.....I would do Stillman's for a week. I plan to do a low calorie (like 5 dd's in a row) to jiggle my body into losing again when I stall. I believe the body gets used to what we're doing and just needs a shock to get going again. I know so many rodeo girls and horse riders that would fast for several days or almost a week in before big events to cleanse their systems and rid the body of toxins. They claimed they felt better, rode better, their senses were more alert and responsive. And that the body was more able to absorb nutrients and etc....
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:31 AM   #9
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Interesting theories, and I think they may all have merit.

Allergies not only cause runny noses and such, but they also cause systemic inflammation. So yes, you are holding on to more water weight throughout your body. I would also think, as your body is in a stress mode dealing with the allergies, it is not going to be focused on losing well. Stress causes an increase in cortisol, and cortisol signals the body to hold onto whatever nutrients/energy it can get it's hands on for the flight or fight that is to come. When that stress is chronic (as with allergies), the cortisol increase is chronic as well.

Couple this with your #3 of an extra long fast increasing the stress response even more, and I think you have a recipe for very slow losses or even maintenance.

And if your metabolism slowed as a result of #2, it may take a bit longer for healing to happen before it can really kick in with letting go again.

I've also had the thoughts about our bodies getting used to even the ud/dd rotation. It changes, but it stays the same, ya know? I did a week of zigzagging calories back in Feb shortly after I found out about my allergies and got used to eating without those foods, and shook loose a couple of pounds. Then I maintained for about 6 weeks, went back to wlm and dropped 4 in 2 weeks (when I struggled to lose 3 in 4 weeks when I first started).

Sophiecat has posted how she mixes things up all the time, and struggles to not lose more in maintenance.

So maybe there's something to it.

Gotsome--I think you may just need to hold the course of making sure you are eating all your UD cals, and eating 3 meals on your UD to give your body time to heal, and trust that it isn't starving.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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What a thoughtful post!

I started Atkins in January 2011, lost great, then STALLED in the spring no matter what. Loss picked up again in the fall and even over the holidays, then stalled, probably due to some extreme family stress and little sleep, so I picked up JUDDD in February 2012, doing great, broke my stalls. . .

Weight loss in February and March was terrific: JUDDD and low carb (because grains, sugar make me feel awful in several ways) with an eye towards organic and paleo principles seem to be a great combo for me, except around the beginning of April, everything went haywire.

I realize that I am close to goal. I see that this last 10 or so pounds are going to be harder than the first 25. I am just determined to lose the fat padding on my tummy and legs--exercise will only do so much there when there is an inch thick or more layer of fat over the muscles!

So mid-March or so, I started getting a cold and having a lot of allergy/sinus problems. It has been one thing after another, including the flu, ear infections, sinus infection, headaches, fever, that has been ongoing since then. I finally shook all of the infections/virus issues and the allergies from tree pollens are beginning to wain. Can't wait for the grass allergies! I have been taking a lot of nyquil/dayquil, benadryl, claritin, decongestants, and on and on.

Tina, good call about the body stress / inflammation connection.

I am not a prolific poster by any means, but have really avoided saying much at all lately because I have been in such a slumpy stall and very discouraged. It seems like it took the first two months of JUDDD to get the whole "magic" affect of appetite suppression, which lasted about two weeks, and now I am just hanging at the same weight (I am NOT bouncer!) for several weeks. In fact, I gained three pounds that stuck. Finally, I got a weight this week that put me back at my lowest so far and am afraid to get back on the scale to see that jump back up. No movement in inches or clothing fit. . .

Between this, Yam-Yam's post about body needing a break from weight loss, and Tina's thread about problems hitting UD calories, well, these are my big concerns right now. I can't figure out what the heck is going on, and am reading all of these to see if we can, as a group, come up with some solutions.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:15 AM   #11
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I am in complete agreement that even with the extreme caloric differences of JUDDD, our bodies still become accustomed to what we are doing. I also believe in shocking the body sometimes by throwing it a curve ball.

That being said, after my run of two weeks with minimal change, I was AFRAID to change things up. I kept asking myself, what if I'm being impatient? What if it is just hormones and will even out? What if I have a super high calorie day and can't come back from that? Frankly, it exhausted me. In the end I held tight to my rotations and was rewarded with a loss this morning. But TOM is due in the next week and a half and I'll be back in the same boat again.

So very frustrating.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:42 AM   #12
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Intriguing post, Nancy, and it dovetails with what I was pondering yesterday.

RE: Idea #1 - I'm blessed in that I've never suffered from seasonal allergies except one time about eight years ago. I was so miserable (watery eyes, sneezing all the time and that horrible post nasal drip and cough) and have a great deal of compassion for anyone who has to deal with that regularly.

BUT... I've always been a little sensitive to bug sprays and insecticides. Not nearly as dramatic of a response, but I've always been able to tell when the exterminator would come to spray the office at night even though it's supposed to be "odorless". I would retain water, sometimes get a nagging headache, etc. Usually would pass the next day, though.

I started JUDDD on March 22, and had incredibly spectacular results on both the scale and clothing getting looser initially (bouncing, of course, but always bouncing down after a day or two). The last 11 days I've been dancing around and never going any lower even though I've been super vigilant about calories (I almost always have a fasting DD and never exceed the calories for UD). I use a pair of pants with a waistband and zipper to gauge inches lost and I've made a little headway in the last 11 days, but not a lot. My right knee has been aching a weird ache, as well... not a "you worked too hard" kind of ache, or "you hurt your knee" ache and not an arthritic kind of ache, either (my arthritis in my shoulders and neck is MUCH improved) ... different than that and I'm at a loss to describe it better. Not continuous, but noticeable.

I knew the initial swift drop in scale numbers could not/would not continue and really didn't want them to because I never felt as good physically when I did low carb and had successive big losses as I did when I'd lose a couple of pounds a week. But this 'dance around' has been puzzling me, and with your post I'm now thinking I may know part of the answer.

Almost two weeks ago the handyman renovating the place next door (same landlord as ours) came over and asked if we'd noticed a problem with fleas. He'd gone to the storage building behind the two backyards to fetch a ladder and noticed a huge colony of fleas inside and was going to get the exterminator out there the next day to treat it and all of the yards (3 properties). We have a medium-sized dog that likes to be outside with me while I'm doing my thing in the backyard and had noticed he'd started scratching now and then about a week prior but we hadn't seen any on him. A day or so after the guy asked us about fleas, there was a flea 'explosion' on our dog. Did flea bath/flea sprays in the house, washed his dog bed, etc. The yards and houses inside got sprayed two days later. But we still had a problem and it got worse, so more yard and house spray, etc. We think they've got a handle on it for now.

Long story to get to my point/question... Even though I'm a big water drinker and have tried to drink extra since all of the flea treatment stuff has been going on, I've been retaining water like I always did when the office got a visit from the bug guy. We're able have all of the windows in the house open (fortunately), but we've had a lot of chemicals in the house and yard that we don't usually have. Yesterday when I weighed after a DD I wondered if the chemicals from the flea treatment had anything remotely to do with this dancing around. After reading your post, I'm thinking it might be related.


RE: Idea #3 - I sometimes have a tendency to do that, too... just not hungry and not thinking about food, too busy to eat, etc. Too long of a fasting period. Going to make a conscious effort to do better.


Quote:
Allergies not only cause runny noses and such, but they also cause systemic inflammation. So yes, you are holding on to more water weight throughout your body. I would also think, as your body is in a stress mode dealing with the allergies, it is not going to be focused on losing well. Stress causes an increase in cortisol, and cortisol signals the body to hold onto whatever nutrients/energy it can get it's hands on for the flight or fight that is to come. When that stress is chronic (as with allergies), the cortisol increase is chronic as well.
Tina, this makes a lot of sense to me regarding my current situation.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:24 PM   #13
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Nancy, I also noted your point about how many meals you are eating per day and concentrating all of your calories on dinner and admit that I do that too, especially lately.

A few days ago, because of extreme DD hunger, I started eating first about 10 or 11 a.m. and eating 200 or so calories of protein and fat, then having the rest (and a little over) at dinner time. I really thought about that and ate a 700 calorie breakfast today and dinner was so loaded with butter, CO and coconut milk that I had an 800 calorie meal. Right now, I feel a little stuffed, but this is only the 2nd time in over two weeks that I have eaten my UD calories. Most UD, I'll change that up and have lunch as well--that wasn't convenient today due to a bunch of errands I was doing.

I am trying to stay away from the scale on a daily basis to stop tormenting myself for a little while, and on Monday or so, I'll weigh in and see if this is helping at all.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:07 AM   #14
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Such thoughtful replies everybody! Thank you - we have given each other a lot to think about! I am going to reply one at a time-ish so I can follow each line of thought.

----

Hey Tina, not to worry...I am watching what and when I eat very closely.

When I thought more about it, I realized I was losing some of the NSVs I had when I was working JUDDD correctly. The return of the rosy red cheeks and bright red nose should have told me I was running out of sirtuin enzymes. Need those SEs in full force, I want to be healthy!

At the middle of the month I vanish for a big vacation. I have every intention of having a body-full of SEs to help me deal with two weeks of gourmet meals and wine . And, no, I do not plan to over eat while I am gone.....but I don't plan to have any DDs either.

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Old 05-06-2012, 07:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
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But TOM is due in the next week and a half and I'll be back in the same boat again.

So very frustrating.
I hate that TOM too! I can gain about 8 lbs during that time.

When I started losing so much on LC, wild horses couldn't drag me off of the diet.....when I did Stillman's (extreme low carb low cal) weight literally melted off of me.....and if I was on Stillman's during my TOM I didn't gain during TOM.... once I saw that, I would do Stillman's during TOM....I have no idea if that would work with Juddd. I may try doing DD's during my my next TOM to see. I don't really know how many calories I consumed during Stillmans, but I kept it simple and ate ONLY fish....broiled in the oven with a little mayo and parmesan cheese. I ate that 3 times a day. Yum...NOT. To this day it's hard for me to eat fish like that. But I can choke it down if it means weight loss or no weight gain during TOM!
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:25 AM   #16
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Sheridan, I wish we had an easy way to check for inflammation. Because I think since the spraying/washing started your poor body has been screaming for help...and totally messed up as far as hydration and energy allocation is concerned.

Join me in remembering to eat three meals a day and I bet as the chemicals calm down and the consistent eating gives energy, you will resume weight loss at a healthy pace (I agree about not wanting to lose too fast).

If you don't, then tell us what is going on and we will all put on our Sherlock hats and figure it out.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Sheridan, I wish we had an easy way to check for inflammation. Because I think since the spraying/washing started your poor body has been screaming for help...and totally messed up as far as hydration and energy allocation is concerned.

Join me in remembering to eat three meals a day and I bet as the chemicals calm down and the consistent eating gives energy, you will resume weight loss at a healthy pace (I agree about not wanting to lose too fast).

If you don't, then tell us what is going on and we will all put on our Sherlock hats and figure it out.
And wouldn't you know it, I got on the scale this morning after a fasting DD yesterday, and I'm down 3 pounds. I do think the chemicals (and the overall stress of the situation) must have played a part in my "dance". Several days have gone by now without adding any chemicals to the yard or house and all the windows are still open, so the chemicals must be dispersing. I ordinarily drink a lot of water but yesterday I especially pushed it to help flush the 'flea stuff' out of my system. My knee is much improved this morning, as well.

Thanks for this post and your offer to "Sherlock" the problem.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:22 AM   #18
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Update on my theory

So, to recap:
In March and April I only lost six scale pounds (but did lose 12 inches ).

First I realized I was preparing but not actually getting around to eating my UD calories. I can only guess, but I suspect UDs came in around 900 - 1000 calories which was too low to break me out of caloric stress response.

I corrected that but my scale weight loss remained stalled.

Then I realized, because of my lifestyle and - most especially - because of appetite suppression, I was not eating much or anything for breakfast or lunch on UDs (starting to nibble in the late afternoon, then having a big dinner). When I plotted my eating times on a chart, I discovered I was extending my DD eating about 48 hours. BIG mistake for my metabolism. I was pushing myself through caloric stress response (and sirtuin enzyme production) into the slow metabolism of starvation mode. (Should have realized this because my energy was bottoming out, and my NSVs were going away.)

SO, I started forcing myself to divide UD cals across breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Result?

My body reacted with screams of joy. NSVs are back. Energy is back. And, even though I turned last Friday's DD into an UD (forgot it was my parent's 65th anniversary, decided to join the celebration), I am down three pounds since this time last week. Basically a pound a DD. It is like my body is trying to catch up to the inches I lost.

I LOVE JUDDD!
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:30 AM   #19
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Start Date: JUDDD 1/1/12 + LCHF 12/1/13 (controlling diabetes)
PS

I totally want to discuss various forms of calorie cycling (as several of you wonder losers suggested). I am MOST curious about staying within JUDDDs basic DD/UD rotation, but really shaking the calories each day up or down.

I think, in the interest of having our discussions in one place, I am going to move over to Sophie's wonderful Shake It Up, Baby post.

See you all there!!!
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:39 AM   #20
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I'm right there with you, Nancy!
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:19 AM   #21
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
So, to recap:
In March and April I only lost six scale pounds (but did lose 12 inches ).

First I realized I was preparing but not actually getting around to eating my UD calories. I can only guess, but I suspect UDs came in around 900 - 1000 calories which was too low to break me out of caloric stress response.

I corrected that but my scale weight loss remained stalled.

Then I realized, because of my lifestyle and - most especially - because of appetite suppression, I was not eating much or anything for breakfast or lunch on UDs (starting to nibble in the late afternoon, then having a big dinner). When I plotted my eating times on a chart, I discovered I was extending my DD eating about 48 hours. BIG mistake for my metabolism. I was pushing myself through caloric stress response (and sirtuin enzyme production) into the slow metabolism of starvation mode. (Should have realized this because my energy was bottoming out, and my NSVs were going away.)

SO, I started forcing myself to divide UD cals across breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Result?

My body reacted with screams of joy. NSVs are back. Energy is back. And, even though I turned last Friday's DD into an UD (forgot it was my parent's 65th anniversary, decided to join the celebration), I am down three pounds since this time last week. Basically a pound a DD. It is like my body is trying to catch up to the inches I lost.

I LOVE JUDDD!
Now THAT'S something to celebrate! Wow!
As well as you shaking things up and getting the loss moving again!

Last edited by KeirasMom; 05-09-2012 at 06:20 AM.. Reason: stupid spelling
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:23 AM   #22
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Start Date: Aug 2011/I've been maintaining since April 2012
This is awesome to read! WTG you for analyzing and coming up with theories, testing them out, and finding what works.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:31 AM   #23
Blabbermouth!!!
 
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Start Date: LC 6/11; JUDDD 10/11; Maintenance 11/11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidsteacher View Post
This is awesome to read! WTG you for analyzing and coming up with theories, testing them out, and finding what works.
Absolutely!!! Love that you've done that, Nancy, and it's going to help many others!!
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #24
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Spring is usually my best time for weight loss. My loss has slowed so maybe almost to summer is a problem. Interesting theories and thread.
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