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Old 04-24-2012, 06:51 AM   #1
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Confused

As many of you know I am having no success with Judd but mostly because I am not following Judd as it is designed. My own fault. Can't blame the program if you are not working it correctly and many of my UDs have been way over. Not all but many. However, my DDs have been near perfect for almost 5 weeks and my average calories should have created a clear deficit vs my maintenance level calories for my body size, age. Shouldn't I have lost weight on that alone?

Also considering continuing Judd but taking a different approach to UDs as some have suggested to help control the UDs. I think I will try continuing my Dd fast till lunch and then allotting only 200 calories (a yogurt or salad or something small) leaving most of my calories for a big dinner but constricting it to a 2 hour window. The goal is to shift to 300/1800 rotation to see if the decreased calories and longer fasting window start some weight loss. ( the calculator has me currently at ~400/1950 for max weight loss, no exercise).

Thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:09 AM   #2
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It's disappointing and frustrating that you can't just do it on strict DDs alone. Certainly when you look at the overview, the diet one day and not the next seems to promise that what you are doing should work. But as you are seeing, it's more complicated than that.

Personally, I don't think I'd make such a dramatic change. I think I'd be more likely to see whether taking 50 cals off your DDs helps first.

What are you having for dinner that you could manage 1600 calories in one meal on a regular basis? I'm really curious.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:23 AM   #3
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Hi Casmira - unfortunately my appetite and food preferences make it ridiculously easy to eat 1600 calories in a meal. For instance, last night my visiting mother made linguini with clam sauce, garlic bread, salad - add a couple of glasses of wine and a brownie for desert with a pretzel chaser to down my vitamins which I forgot to take with dinner and no problem getting to 1600 calories for dinner for me! I often eat out at restaurants and that is also a recipe for high calorie meals. My DDs have been 200-400 calories no problem. As long as I don't let myself eat I am OK with the deprivation. It's once I started eating that things get out of control!
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:46 AM   #4
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I think you have a good plan! The trick with JUDDD is finding how to make it work for you. If you like to have a big dinner and can get all 1600 cals in one meal, then I say do it! I have the same problem - UDs I go hog-wild but DDs are usually great. (Of course, the past few have been MDs... ) I'm totally stuck on the scale because I can't seem to reign myself in. I need to make a plan too.

Anyway, I think your plan is great. Go for it! Give it a few weeks and see if it works!
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:54 AM   #5
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Well, I am not a good example for UD's since I have more way over UD's than any one person should. BUT I am very strict on DD's and have gone from 500 down to 350 then down to 250 and now down to 60. I only have coffee with 1 T of HWC and then water all day. Have been doing the 60 calories for the past week . I started JUDDD on Jan 8 and have now lost 20 pounds . I just get carried away on Ud's more than not. Dr. J says in his book that not losing can almost always be traced to eating too much on the DD's.
I am more than willing to fast on DD's now so I can still lose and enjoy the UD's. I do not even get hungry anymore on my almost total fast DD's.
Not suggesting you try my DD method but I have still lost with having really high UD's.
Just how many calories over are you talking about though on your UD's?
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:25 AM   #6
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Hi all - thanks for all the help.

Sterlingirl and Beeb - I am definitely counting. I log everything in ****** and when I am home I weigh and measure everything. Sometimes it is hard to be accurate when eating out but I have had only one FD without counting in this 5 week period. Big mistake. That same weekend I had the one and only MD attempt - another big mistake but not one that has been repeated. My issue would not appear to be not counting or rotation. It appears to be the UD lack of control but I am open to other ideas since I love my UDs!!! Counting has not helped me to curb my UD overages.

Adi - my UDs should be 1950-2000 but have been in that range or below guessing maybe 20% of the time with 50% hovering around 2300 and another 30% in the 2500 to 3000 range. My DDs should be ~400 but most have been lower, around 300 with a few lower than that and only one that has been over 500.

Am I right team in assuming that the UDs are the problem here?
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingJudd View Post
Hi Casmira - unfortunately my appetite and food preferences make it ridiculously easy to eat 1600 calories in a meal. For instance, last night my visiting mother made linguini with clam sauce, garlic bread, salad - add a couple of glasses of wine and a brownie for desert with a pretzel chaser to down my vitamins which I forgot to take with dinner and no problem getting to 1600 calories for dinner for me! I often eat out at restaurants and that is also a recipe for high calorie meals. My DDs have been 200-400 calories no problem. As long as I don't let myself eat I am OK with the deprivation. It's once I started eating that things get out of control!
Unless you're counting those UD calories, it's possible it might not be as high as you're thinking. I say that because I was encouraged to track my UD calories because I was sure I was eating up to or even overdoing it, despite my lack of appetite. I was so surprised to find that I was nowhere near my UD calories. After only 2 UD's tracking my calories, the scale finally began moving downward. I've also decided to weigh only once or twice a week because the "bounce" drives me bonkers.

I'm just a few pounds less than you and have JUDDD'ing 6 weeks tomorrow and wasn't seeing any success, either, and was becoming frustrated since I'd had some success with JUDDD when it first came out (until I quit working it).

I'm with the others on tracking the UD calories.

Edited to add: Well, after posting, I saw your response that you are counting. So ... I'll let the others weigh in on the problem. No pun intended!
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:40 AM   #8
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Gosh. You are doing better at keeping your UD's in line than I am and I am losing. I DO drink a lot of water. I quit carbonated beverages and stopped using Splenda packets but I was already SLOWLY losing when I did that.

Looks like you are one that has to be very strict on UD's as well as DD's. I am just plain lucky that I am still losing and eating very similar to your UD's. My calculator numbers are 350/1750 but I am 11 years older than you so the calc thinks I should eat less. I could probably be at goal if I was strict on UD's. I weigh and measure so I know exactly how bad I am on UD's.

AND I will also be honest and admit that it took me a good two months before I started getting my UD's a little under control. So many years of doing LC had left me feeling so deprived I just had to have some of everything that had been denied for so many years. I have that out of the way now and I am getting better about the UD's.

So there is still hope. If your DD's are under control, now those UD's just need a lot of work. I would try to eat foods that help with appetite suppression. For me that is lean protein, for others it is fat. Whatever works for you. I eat eggs scrambled in coconut oil for breakfast and that holds me until lunch. I think a lot of my problem has been that I was eating yogurt with a apple, banana and strawberries for lunch. Too much sugar in all of that. I am doing better now that I am eating other things for lunch.

Can you post a typical UD menu for the day?
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:26 AM   #9
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Oh No - give up my diet soda??? The horror - not sure I could manage it but I do think it would help. Could I still drink ice tea? I like it plain with lemon so no splenda. I might be able to manage that. I will try and see if I can export daily menus from ******. stay tuned - and thanks.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #10
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Your tea should be fine. The artificial sweetener may be the culprit in your hunger. It causes cravings and a hunger beast for me. Cut it out for a week and see what happens. How much sugar/carbs are you eating on UD's? Because that can wake up the hunger beast as well. Sticking to lean proteins and veggie carbs, with just an occasional treat might be helpful as well. (I know, part of the draw of JUDDD is that you can eat ANYTHING. Well, that's only if your body can handle it. It IS still a diet). And just because you might not be handling it very well now, doesn't mean it will always be that way. Once some healing happens, you can likely reintroduce foods and not have them affect you so much.

You may just be one of the unlucky ones that really needs to keep a cap on those UD cals. And it may not be forever, but for now, I'd try to really keep a lid on them.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #11
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I did the JUDDD calculator for your stats and I get, at 20% little or no exercise DD cals at 395 and UD cals at 1976.

I truly believe if you did these calories, even if you wanted to do a little more up to 500 on DDs you would be golden and start to loss weight.

JUDDD is a science and like baking a cake where exact science is needed for the synergy of the ingredients to come together to make a delicious cake, so does JUDDD need the right combo of UD and DD calories to help it do it's "magic".

Why not try it, to the letter, for 2 weeks and see what happens? You may be very surprised!
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #12
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If you don't keep track of your UD it sounds quite possible that they have become free days. It is not just the deficit between the two days that creates the magic it is also Strictly staying within your calorie limits on both days. Think of this as a math equation, if you keep plugging in the wrong numbers you will never get the correct answer. You keep plugging in the wrong numbers. You say you enjoy your UD, when you start to enjoy them less, then you will be on the right course lol. You need to be honest with yourself so that you don't waste the next five weeks and you WILL lose with this woe. You just haven't tried this woe yet. Again good luck
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingJudd View Post
Oh No - give up my diet soda??? The horror - not sure I could manage it but I do think it would help.
I didn't intentionally try to quit Diet Coke. It just kind of happened. I noticed I hadn't had any for several days so I just didn't buy anymore. Never missed the cokes and didn't even have a headache gettting off them. Guess that was my body starting to gravitate toward healthier foods or drinks in my case. Plain water or water with lemon is all I drink now other than my one cup of coffee in the AM.

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Old 04-24-2012, 10:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Muffabuff View Post
If you don't keep track of your UD it sounds quite possible that they have become free days. It is not just the deficit between the two days that creates the magic it is also Strictly staying within your calorie limits on both days. Think of this as a math equation, if you keep plugging in the wrong numbers you will never get the correct answer. You keep plugging in the wrong numbers. You say you enjoy your UD, when you start to enjoy them less, then you will be on the right course lol. You need to be honest with yourself so that you don't waste the next five weeks and you WILL lose with this woe. You just haven't tried this woe yet. Again good luck


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Old 04-25-2012, 05:18 AM   #15
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I read through all of your posts. I think I have a minority opinion.

I certainly agree you need to get your UDs under control. Especially since you do a lot of traveling and eating out, having a plan for each UD is key to stabilizing this situation.

But, from your April calorie log it looks like you should be losing. Slowly because of the UDs. But, sirtuin enzymes produced on those DDs should be having an effect.

I am wondering if eating between 300 - 400 cals on DD is too little for your metabolism. Some people, metabolically, stall if DDs drop too low.

Do you have signs that the DDs are producing sirtuin enzymes? If you have ketostix, do they turn pink towards the end of DD? (I know, for some people they don't change color at all so that is not a sure & certain test.) Is your body changing shape? If you measure, are inches dropping even though the scales are not? Are you getting appetite suppression? How is your energy on DD? Have you experienced any of the NSVs?

I am asking because, there is a chance you need to take your DD calories back up to the 500ish range while getting UDs stabilized around 1900 - 2000.
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JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:05 AM   #16
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I read through all of your posts. I think I have a minority opinion.

I certainly agree you need to get your UDs under control. Especially since you do a lot of traveling and eating out, having a plan for each UD is key to stabilizing this situation.

But, from your April calorie log it looks like you should be losing. Slowly because of the UDs. But, sirtuin enzymes produced on those DDs should be having an effect.

I am wondering if eating between 300 - 400 cals on DD is too little for your metabolism. Some people, metabolically, stall if DDs drop too low.

Do you have signs that the DDs are producing sirtuin enzymes? If you have ketostix, do they turn pink towards the end of DD? (I know, for some people they don't change color at all so that is not a sure & certain test.) Is your body changing shape? If you measure, are inches dropping even though the scales are not? Are you getting appetite suppression? How is your energy on DD? Have you experienced any of the NSVs?

I am asking because, there is a chance you need to take your DD calories back up to the 500ish range while getting UDs stabilized around 1900 - 2000.
My thoughts, too here!! I can't eat below 600 or I actually start to gain after a DD. Sometimes more IS better and LESS is not!
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:31 AM   #17
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Hmmm - interesting thought Gotsomeold and Beeb. I haven't tried ketostix and don't have any so I don't know if I am in ketosis but as a long time LCer I can usually recognize that state and I don't think I am in ketosis. My energy appears to be fine but I haven't been exercising much in the last couple of weeks (had a fall and wrenched some muscles). I have hunger at appropriate times on both UD and DD and it is usually manageable (except for one DD that was hellish).

No significant body changes for sure. Wearing the same clothes. It's possible they fit a tad bit better with a wee bit less muffin top but that could be wishful thinking on my part. I really don't see any noticeable changes from this WOE so far - except for possibly saving some $$ on food on DDs LOL!

I had a good DD yesterday (370 cals) and so far I am having a controlled UD with good, healthy food. I saved 1000 cals for dinner/evening so I can have a nice meal and feel pampered without going over my allotment. Do you guys think I should raise my DDs now (and to what?) or wait and see if getting my UDs under control does the trick? IF the issue is that I am not turning the SIRT1 gene on for some reason is that related to my DDs, my UDs or the combo? Apt thread title as I guess I am still confused ..
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:50 PM   #18
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I just want to say how much I respect your staying power and determination.

You are striving to find the right path on JUDDD and that is so good to see. It can be so frustrating watching others having success while you are struggling.

I am not around much just now because of family health issues. But I want you to know how I feel about you continuing to JUDDD.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:50 PM   #19
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DDs turn on the sirtuin enzymes. UDs have to be high enough to turn them off (I stalled myself by not noticing I was eating too little on UDs )

If it was me, I would probably try a few controlled UDs, maybe a week or two. Then, if changes had not happened I would raise my DDs. But I tend to have an 'experiment with one thing at a time, no rush' attitude.

It would not do any harm if you raise DD and control UD at the same time. The only problem (which might not even be a problem) is if your weight starts dropping you won't know whether it was one or both changes that provided the breakthrough.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #20
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You guys are amazing! Thank you all for the insights, advice and support. I have been running to the bathroom all day so hoping for a drop tomorrow. Cross your fingers please?
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:12 PM   #21
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...but as a long time LCer

No significant body changes for sure.

Do you guys think I should raise my DDs now (and to what?) or wait and see if getting my UDs under control does the trick? IF the issue is that I am not turning the SIRT1 gene on for some reason is that related to my DDs, my UDs or the combo? Apt thread title as I guess I am still confused ..
When you were LCarbing could you eat that pasta dinner you posted about and not gain 5 lbs the next day? That was the part of LCing that I disliked so much - why I chose JUDDD for maintainence. If you can eat a dinner like that and no body changes in the wrong direction, you are doing well!

As to your question, I would pick ONE tweak and stick with it before you try the other one. Better to test one thing at a time. I would consider up'ing the DDs as you seem to have a good metabolism. Maybe your body is asking to go over on UDs because it doesn't like the DDs being so low???

good luck and hopefully things start moving for you,
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #22
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I agree with Nancy, you should raise your DD to 500 and stay strictly within your calories on UD's. It is reccomended that there be no tweaking during the early weeks of this woe. I mentioned before that you really haven't tried this woe yet, and that when you did you would lose weight. I cannot overstate the importance of not going over your calories on UD's, it throws off the entire equation and therefore will continue to give you the wrong result. Have you given any thought as to why you continue to go over your UD calories when you know it will prevent you from getting the results you want? The good news is that you are the one in control and when you are ready to really commit to this woe you will lose weight. I'm sorry if I'm a little bit too tough love, I want you to succeed.
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