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Old 04-02-2012, 09:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
Page 244 in the Q&A section. "How much should I eat on my UD?
The point of the diet is to reduce stress and diet ftigue and increase freedom from the anxiety of restricting every day so that you are more likely to adhere to the diet over time.......You absolutely do not hve to consume all the calories estimated for your UD's. There is no specific calorie requirement for the up day.......The most important principle of the Alternate Day Diet is to keep your down day calories as low as practical while maintaining the up day, down day pattern over the long term."

Hope these quotes help you.
I knew I saw that somewhere.

re: how many calories to eat to lose weight. This is a question on any program.

My understanding, as someone who is also starting, is that we use the calculator with our current weight (as stated by others above). The Up Day number is an upper limit, though we don't want to go too far down (as also stated above) b/c then we're depriving, and not creating a big enough delta between up and down.

My view on this is: once I start losing weight, after the first 2 weeks of 500 on the DD, is that the UD number will *also* change.

So maybe next week or more likely next month, my UD number will go from 2200 to 2100, and my DD number will go from 500 to 480... and then eventually, I'm sure my UD will be like 1800 or 1600 and my DD will be 300... but by then, I might be able to eat more than 20% on the DD, since that's an induction number.

Point is-- the calorie question is always, do I eat for what I weigh now or what I want to weigh? And the answer I've always seen is: if you go too low on calories now, your body will click to "starvation mode" and you won't lose anything (except some muscle mass as you canabalize yourself instead of fat burning).

You have to eat enough to make your body realize it's not going to die, it's ok to let go of the fat stores.

So, even if for you guys your UD number is high, you don't have to eat all of it (and please, don't drink McD's shakes! yuk! Think of all the good food you could have in place of a shake!... I digress...)
Eat enough on an UD so that you are satisfied, not hungry, and somewhat near your UD number perhaps, so that going into a DD isn't quite as painful.

I gotta say, unless it's like tonight where I was at a fancy dinner thing-- I get full/done for the day around 1900. When I was doing my own calorie restriction, I was actually fine around 1700, even though my limit is around 2000-2200.

Anyhoo--the book says it best, and those are the quote from it above

best of luck to the other newbies-- tomorrow's just my 2nd DD, but after the meal I just had, I'm kind of looking forward to it

Soren
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:40 AM   #32
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Thanks so much to everyone, especially Pat, for all the good advise and information. Like everyone else here, I am an experienced Atkins person, but was just unable to make it a permanent lifestyle change no matter how many times I tried. But I am grateful to LCF for allowing this board. Ok I'm in. Will try 3000/500, based on my current stats.
I will keep my DD low carb to see if that keeps me less hungry. I will check in, in a week and share how it's going. Thanks again everyone.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:10 AM   #33
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Good Luck LeeMT. Check back for motivation and encouragement from this great group of people. The 1st few DD's will be rough and then not so much! Just started my 2nd week and am down 5.2 lbs!!

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Old 04-03-2012, 11:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorenkkg View Post


So, even if for you guys your UD number is high, you don't have to eat all of it (and please, don't drink McD's shakes! yuk! Think of all the good food you could have in place of a shake!... I digress...)

Soren
thats exactly what i do
one is the same as a whole meal soooo
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adillenal View Post
"How much should I eat on my UD?
The point of the diet is to reduce stress and diet fatigue and increase freedom from the anxiety of restricting every day so that you are more likely to adhere to the diet over time.......You absolutely do not have to consume all the calories estimated for your UD's. There is no specific calorie requirement for the up day.......The most important principle of the Alternate Day Diet is to keep your down day calories as low as practical while maintaining the up day, down day pattern over the long term."

Hope these quotes help you.
The bolded sentence is the answer to my biggest question. Since counting carbs for 11 years and surviving on a lot less than 1766 calories I find I'm obsessing on how to eat that much. I'm so glad I don't have to stuff myself crazy in order for this to work.

I have learned so much from the JUDDD Budds.

I also use fat secret to track my calories.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:46 PM   #36
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Even though he says you don't have to eat all of your ud cals, you DO have to eat enough to get your body out of the stress response of a DD. For me, I can eat to comfortable fullness, and only eat 1000-1100 cals. I eat paleo, and get good appetite suppression from it I guess. But, as evidenced by my complete stall late last year, that is NOT enough calories to keep my metabolism burning well. Even when I started JUDDD, it took a few weeks for the fire to start burning again. And YES, it was hard to get the calories up. DD's were infinitely easier for me.

Adding fat was the secret for me, and nuts. An ounce of nuts and 2 tbsp of almond butter/coconut oil bark is about 400 cals, and got me much closer to the 1500 I needed without making me so full I felt miserable.

Some of us need to keep track so we don't go over, but many of us need to keep track or we'll go way under and go into starvation mode. NEITHER is desirable for this plan to work at its best.

Welcome Lee! Hope you hang around and chat with us and let us know how it's going.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:09 PM   #37
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidsteacher View Post
Even though he says you don't have to eat all of your ud cals, you DO have to eat enough to get your body out of the stress response of a DD. For me, I can eat to comfortable fullness, and only eat 1000-1100 cals. I eat paleo, and get good appetite suppression from it I guess. But, as evidenced by my complete stall late last year, that is NOT enough calories to keep my metabolism burning well. Even when I started JUDDD, it took a few weeks for the fire to start burning again. And YES, it was hard to get the calories up. DD's were infinitely easier for me.

Adding fat was the secret for me, and nuts. An ounce of nuts and 2 tbsp of almond butter/coconut oil bark is about 400 cals, and got me much closer to the 1500 I needed without making me so full I felt miserable.

Some of us need to keep track so we don't go over, but many of us need to keep track or we'll go way under and go into starvation mode. NEITHER is desirable for this plan to work at its best.

Welcome Lee! Hope you hang around and chat with us and let us know how it's going.
Well said!
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #39
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I'm a bit confused about the percentages in the calculator. Can someone explain? When I am calculating my calories, what percentage weight loss mode do I choose to start out with? Ranges from 20 - 35%.

20% gives me 1933/387
25% gives me 1933/483
30% gives me 1933/580

Sorry it's late and my brain is not turned on anymore! LOL
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #40
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it depends on how strict and how much you need/want to loose.
20% is suggested for the first 2 weeks then you can go from there.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:44 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidsteacher View Post
Even though he says you don't have to eat all of your ud cals, you DO have to eat enough to get your body out of the stress response of a DD. For me, I can eat to comfortable fullness, and only eat 1000-1100 cals. I eat paleo, and get good appetite suppression from it I guess. But, as evidenced by my complete stall late last year, that is NOT enough calories to keep my metabolism burning well. Even when I started JUDDD, it took a few weeks for the fire to start burning again. And YES, it was hard to get the calories up. DD's were infinitely easier for me.

Adding fat was the secret for me, and nuts. An ounce of nuts and 2 tbsp of almond butter/coconut oil bark is about 400 cals, and got me much closer to the 1500 I needed without making me so full I felt miserable.

Some of us need to keep track so we don't go over, but many of us need to keep track or we'll go way under and go into starvation mode. NEITHER is desirable for this plan to work at its best.

Welcome Lee! Hope you hang around and chat with us and let us know how it's going.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:37 PM   #42
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I'm a JUDDD newbie, too, so I'm no expert!

However, I've been losing quite well so far (almost 7 lbs and I'm in my second week of JUDDD), and I've been pushing myself to eat close to my UD calorie number. I switched over from a lower calorie plan, so now, overall I'm eating more AND losing more. (Gotta love that JUDDD magic ;-) So my point is to not fear your UD calorie number. I thought mine was high at first @ 1900 calories, but now that I understand why its so high, I no longer worry that I'm eating too much. Like Tina, I'd be satisfied at around 1100 calories on an UD. However, the higher calorie level propels me through my <500 calorie DD. Eating too far under my UD number would make me miserable on the following DD.

But... We're all different, and finding exactly what works for you may take a bit of time.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:21 PM   #43
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sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm new here and wanted to make sure this is correct. According to the calculator, my DD should only be 354 calories? And my UP 1769 calories? Neither of these seems like enough to do what the book claims to do. And I thought the lowest DD number was around 500. Can someone help?

I am 5'3" (maybe 5'4", but I put 5'3") and weigh 179 lbs currently. I am 55 years old.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #44
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Hi Buttah and Welcome!

I put in 63.5 inches for height. and got 1775/355 so your numbers are correct. Keep in mind that there is a pull down menu which will take you all the way up to 35% where you would still be in weight loss mode (WLM). That would give you 621 on a DD if you really needed it in the beginning. Once the appetite suppressant of the SIRT1 Rescue gene kicks in DDs will be lots easier.

I try to stay at the 20% number on DDs but if I have a dinner out or am really exceptionally hungry, I know I can go all the way to 35% and still be getting the benefits of JUDD.

Since you are new, make sure you take time to surf around the JUDD forum and read, read, read. You will be encouraged! Glad you are here!
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:38 PM   #45
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Yam Yam, thank you! And I have both the Dukan and the JUDDD books on the way, so I really haven't decided what to do. I may start with Dukan (I'm actually on my second day of Stillman right now, so Dukan is very very close to that).

I have already lost about ten pounds just counting calories and eating a low glycemic diet, but I've been in a VERY long plateau (not gaining, just maintaining for a couple of months) and need to spice things up a bit.

I have read some of your posts and see that you've done both. Which do you recommend?
And can you explain the difference between 20% and 25% etc - does one take the SIRT1 gene longer to kick in or something?
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Yam Yam, thank you! And I have both the Dukan and the JUDDD books on the way, so I really haven't decided what to do. I may start with Dukan (I'm actually on my second day of Stillman right now, so Dukan is very very close to that).

I have already lost about ten pounds just counting calories and eating a low glycemic diet, but I've been in a VERY long plateau (not gaining, just maintaining for a couple of months) and need to spice things up a bit.

I have read some of your posts and see that you've done both. Which do you recommend?
And can you explain the difference between 20% and 25% etc - does one take the SIRT1 gene longer to kick in or something?
Buttah: Yay! A girl after my heart! I heard about Dr. Dukan's diet last July on Dr. Oz and there was a woman who said she lost 13 pounds in 10 days doing the Attack Phase of the diet. I immediately ordered the book always thinking "that won't happen for me. It's impossible."

When I got the book, I read the preface about "the man who loved meat" and thought wow, this is a lot like Stillman! I had lost 55 pounds when I was 15 years old with Stillman QWL and kept it off all my life until menopause hit and I was also hospitalized with a back injury. Nothing worked to get off the weight I was gaining during that time and all through the "change" years.

I thought I must be broken somehow. I'm over the change now and decided it was time to try something that I believed would work. For several days I just read and re-read "The Attack Diet" part of the book. I would not let myself go any further, because I wanted to make sure I would do it right and not get distracted or confused.

I started "Attack" on August 1st. On August 10th imagine my surprise when I was down 14 pounds!!! In his book he says if you stick to Attack as he outlines it, you can weigh yourself several times a day because you could start losing hour by hour. BTW, I was not "perfect" a few times in those 10 days, but I continually went down on the scale anyway.

I was so thrilled to discover and eat fat free, plain Greek yogurt 'til my heart's content. I bought lactose free, fat free milk and drank lots of it because he makes a case for it in the book. Along with gobs of lean protein of all kinds and eggs (including the yolk) I was a full and happy camper.

The only thing I did differently was to keep on having extra virgin olive oil every day (1 to 3 teaspoons) and also fish oil capsules because I believe strongly in the health benefits.

Anyway, this is getting long! When I finally moved into the Cruise phase after reading that section of the book (not til my 10 days was up though!) my weight loss slowed down alot. Every time I returned to pure protein attack I would drop a few pounds.

By December I had lost 27 pounds and the weight loss had really slowed down and pretty much stopped. That's when I stumbled across the JUDD forum and decided to give it a try.

I have not lost with lightening speed on JUDD. BUT I am enjoying the journey. I'm pretty happy with how I am progressing and have adopted the JUDD philosophy that this is not a race and as long as I can keep off what I've lost and the inches I've lost and still be going down, I really don't care if it's slow.

As far as activating the rescue gene, Dr. J addresses this quite well in the book. And, I enjoyed his book as well. There is a lot of research going on surrounding the SIR (Silent Information Regulator) genes and their effect on health and weight control. All you have to do is a Google search.

Apparently the lower you go calorie wise (all the way to a total water fast) on DDs, the faster you will activate the gene. That said, it does take time for the sirtuin proteins to become adequately built up in the body to produce healing and weight loss benefits. My impression is that Dr. J. suggests about 9 DD rotations (2 weeks of JUDDing UD/DD) and you will begin to notice the effect.

I'll close for the moment, but feel free to ask away! I'd love to answer any questions you have if I can and I'm sure many other more experienced JUDDers will be thrilled to help as well. Join in on one of the Newbie threads for even more support or start a new thread if you want lots of good input!

! Again!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:10 PM   #47
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Yam-Yam, your story is an inspiration.

I too went on Stillman as a teenager, lost about 12-19 pounds when I would've been fine with maybe 10, and started a lifetime of messing with my metabolism. Since that one diet, I was always battling 10-20 lbs.

But it wasn't until 3 pregnancies (two live births) that I hit the weight range I'm in now, and frankly, I've been too busy working and being a mom to really get serious. (And my "baby" is now 15!!!)

Until a year ago. At that point I was up to 195-ish. By going low-glycemic, I got down to 189 and hung there until a few months months ago when I got with the program again and lost the most recent ten pounds (mentioned previously). I think I'm on the slowest weight loss plan in history, but I'm determined that it be permanent.

Looking forward to reading the books. I think I will do Dukan, since I'm pretty much already doing it (I too will not give up my vitamins and fish oil - didn't realize that was even a consideration). But I have one concern. My cholesterol is a bit high (not much, just a little, even after the healthy eating of the past few months - and we are talking VERY few bad carbs, flour or sugar, ever), and my triglycerides can be as well. I suppose I can be extra careful to avoid fat in my fish/chicken (don't really eat much red meat), but I'm still concerned. Any thoughts or experience on that?

And thank you SO MUCH!

OH, one other thing. Although I'm 55, I actually sill get my period (I know, it's odd), which I guess means I'm "younger" in one way, but losing weight is MUCH HARDER the last few years than ever. Another reason your story truly inspires me!

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Old 07-05-2012, 06:22 PM   #48
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Just to be clear, it's egg yokes and all the protein that have me worried about cholesterol. Normally, I'm fine with egg whites, but on such a restricted diet, I think I will need those yellows!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:35 PM   #49
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Me too! And turns out, new research shows the kind of cholesterol in yolks is not bad for us. Dukan definitely says follow your doc's advice and if you are worried about eating the yolks, eat less of them or just do whites. He does, however, say if you buy organic eggs, go ahead and eat the yolks if I recall correctly. They help me feel full, I buy organic brown eggs and I enjoy them tremendously. I have great cholesterol numbers.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #50
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Well, I wish I'd had bloodwork done before starting this, although I haven't had egg yokes (until yesterday) for months. My doc put me on a very low dose of Lipitor about 6 weeks ago, and we're supposed to check the levels before she finalizes the dose. I could run in tomorrow, but I'm determined not to see her until I've lost 5 more lbs! So now she'll end up seeing a combo of Attack Mode and a bit of Lipitor. Hopefully she can still assess.

Meanwhile I didn't realize that egg yolks don't hurt cholesterol. I've still been going by this, and nervous to egg yolks.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cholesterol/HQ00608/

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Old 07-05-2012, 07:41 PM   #51
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Hi Buttah: I didn't see a date on that but my advice, as always, is go by what your doctor says.

I don't want to blow you out of the water or discourage you in any way, but I was very surprised to learn that when we are losing weight rapidly, the fat stores that are being burned andreleased travel through the blood stream. Did you ever hear that? Therefore, if it all has not exited yet, blood tests can possibly show elevated cholesterol and tryglyceride levels. I'm still wrapping my head around that.

My tryglycerides are very, very low. I don't know if it's genetic or because I spent so much of my life working out in a gym like a crazy woman or because I've never been a fan of trans fats.

Once the fat gets flushed out of your body, (hint: drink lots and lots of water) that won't be a problem. You should always drink tons of water before having blood drawn or before donating blood anyway.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:33 PM   #52
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Just thought I'd mention that my cholesterol was a bit high when I had it checked last Aug. My naturo wasn't terribly concerned (it was 229), but did want to see it come down. I had just started my weight loss journey, and my adrenals were shot, so he wanted to see how it responded to taking care of those 2 things. Well, 25 pounds and almost healed adrenals didn't phase it. So he recommended allergy testing. I found out I am allergic to eggs, dairy, cashew, sunflower and garlic. I eliminated those foods and just had my lipids redone. I dropped 40 points in 4 mos!!! I don't think even a statin could have given me those results. Now, I wasn't eating eggs, but I do eat paleo, and eat red meat every day, very little fish, chicken maybe once a week (we raise our own grass-fed beef, so that makes up the bulk of our diet). I use olive oil and coconut oil, as well as peanut oil somewhat. Def not low fat/lean protein.

For sure follow your docs recommendation, just wanted to put out there that there can be other reasons for cholesterol being up.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:33 PM   #53
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Well, you'd think my doc would be aware of that, wouldn't you? We'll see, I guess. She certainly knows I'm losing, and she knew it when we did my last bloodwork, at which time I was devastated it had not improved (after all that hard work), and that's what led to the low dose of Lipitor. After I lost a few pounds a year ago on SBD, my bloodwork improved dramatically from prior to losing. It was the best blood work I'd ever had. Maybe I had stabilized by the time we did it? Who knows. But as of late, my bloodwork isn't so great. Not horrible, just not fantastic. I don't remember the exact numbers.


One last question, for now.

I've been scouring these threads, and I know I someone posted that while on Attack phase, they still put half and half in their one cup of coffee and lost regardless. Was that you? I use half & half in my coffee, I can't bear the idea of skim milk in it. Yuck. And I adore my morning coffee.


I used to use FF half & half, but have since read labels, and that contains carbs and other bad things, where the regular half & half is only 5% fat and actually better for you. Somewhere I also read that with dairy on Attack mode, you should stay below 2%. So I'm not sure what to do. Thoughts?

FYI, I never liked trans fats either. High T's and Choles. run in my family, and everyone is skinny!

Last edited by buttah; 07-05-2012 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #54
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Yam Yam, I am also surprised you were on the Attack Phase for so long (10 days). I used the device on their website, and it said I should only be on Attack for 4 days. Yet your starting weight and goal don't seem that different from mine, in terms of lbs and percentage.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #55
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Well, you'd think my doc would be aware of that, wouldn't you? We'll see, I guess. She certainly knows I'm losing, and she knew it when we did my last bloodwork, at which time I was devastated it had not improved (after all that hard work), and that's what led to the low dose of Lipitor. After I lost a few pounds a year ago on SBD, my bloodwork improved dramatically from prior to losing. It was the best blood work I'd ever had. Maybe I had stabilized by the time we did it? Who knows. But as of late, my bloodwork isn't so great. Not horrible, just not fantastic. I don't remember the exact numbers.


One last question, for now.

I've been scouring these threads, and I know I someone posted that while on Attack phase, they still put half and half in their one cup of coffee and lost regardless. Was that you? I use half & half in my coffee, I can't bear the idea of skim milk in it. Yuck. And I adore my morning coffee.


I used to use FF half & half, but have since read labels, and that contains carbs and other bad things, where the regular half & half is only 5% fat and actually better for you. Somewhere I also read that with dairy on Attack mode, you should stay below 2%. So I'm not sure what to do. Thoughts?

FYI, I never liked trans fats either. High T's and Choles. run in my family, and everyone is skinny!
Yep. That would be me!! When I was doing Dukan I used regular half and half in my coffee every morning. I used a measuring spoon to put 2-3 TBLSP in per cup. Can't give up my morning coffee. Can't stand fat free half and half. When I drink my coffee/half and half in the morning, it seems to calm my appetite down for most of the day. I'm not a breakfast eater. So, with Dukan, I would just wait until my tummy growled, sometimes at 10 a.m. sometimes not until noon. Then I would have either an egg, a cup of yogurt or some tilapia or left over chicken. In the beginning I ate lots of steak and all kinds of beef for dinners.

In his book, he strongly suggests that for successful weight loss, we should divide our current body weight by 2. The number you get is the number of grams of protein you should try to get in every day.

I tried to get in the most grams of lean protein and FF dairy for the least amount of calories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttah View Post
Yam Yam, I am also surprised you were on the Attack Phase for so long (10 days). I used the device on their website, and it said I should only be on Attack for 4 days. Yet your starting weight and goal don't seem that different from mine, in terms of lbs and percentage.
Yep. As I mentioned, I was not 100% perfect those 10 days. I was perfect for the first 4 or 5 but let me just say that there were a few evenings that involved wine! My DH is a dear and he showed up with a bottle of wine a couple of times for us to share and sit out on the veranda.

Other than that, I stuck with it for the 10 days. Originally I was going to go for 5 days straight Attack. Then by the 5th day I was losing so fast and feeling so great I wanted to continue.

BTW: On JUDD I still have half and half in my coffee on DDs and UDs. I just count the calories.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #56
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Buttah: Wanted to add this: Amazingly to me, the 14 pounds I lost so quickly in the first 10 days never came back. I never bounced back up over that low mark even once. I couldn't believe it.

Wouldn't it be nice if every time I wanted to lose it would go so quickly? !!

But I know that in the beginning we lose faster and as we get closer to goal we lose more slowly. That's the way it is.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #57
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Thank you, Yam Yam. And now that I'm asking all these Dukan questions in a JUDDD thread, I think I will PM you later with a few more, if that's okay!
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:26 PM   #58
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Huh. I guess this forum doesn't allow PM's? Oh well.

Then I apologize for asking this in the JUDDD forum:

Yam Yam, what's the deal with the inconsistencies in Dukan over whether FF (or 2%) dairy is unlimited... or limited to 1 kg per day? And if it's limited (bummer), what the heck is 1 kg? I've tried several converters, but the answers seem impossible.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:00 PM   #59
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Buttah: You will be able to PM after a number of messages and some time. It's maybe 25 posts and 25 days? I can't remember. All of a sudden it will pop on and you can do it.

On the Dukan question? I have no idea what you are talking about! Sorry. He says unlimited fat free dairy. Have you received your book yet??????
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:03 PM   #60
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And Buttah: No worries! Ask away! It's OK!!! The JUDDers are very supportive of all WOEs as long as it gets you where you want to go!! I'll keep checking back here and try to help you out with whatever knowledge and experience I can share.
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