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Old 03-23-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
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Why do you need to eat MORE on UDs?

Thought this might be a helpful thread starting off with some info that's new to me.

WOW! I'm so glad I discovered JUDD!! Where have you been all my life???

I never even heard of IF before December and now I just want to read everything about it. Today, I'm reading a book by Ori Hofmekler and just thought this quote might help someone:

***

"The Science Behind Controlled Overeating

...when people practice (controlled) overeating after undereating, their body changes to a more thermogenic and highly metabolized state. The brain receives a signal that it should elevate metabolism in order to burn the extra energy coming from food. On the whole, when one overeats after a controlled fast, nutrients are assimilated at a greater rate, there is an acceleration of the anabolic process of repairing tissues and building muscles; a replenishment of depleted glycogen reserves and intramuscular triglycerides (special high octane fat fuel in the muscle); and there is an increased secretion of dopamine, thyroid hormones, and sex hormones. If (controlled) overeating is practiced regularly, (after controlled fasting), your body's metabolism will remember this, and while adapting to these bigger meals, it will most likely become metabolically faster and more efficient than before.

Studies by Dr. Mark Mattson, Professor in the Department of Neuroscience, Johns Hopkins University, and colleagues at the National Institute on Aging (2003) have shown that mice who followed intermittent fasting (one day fasting followed by overeating twice the amount of daily calories the next day) were surprisingly provided with substantial benefits, including increased life span, reversal of diabetes, and increased resilience to age-related brain damage. Researchers speculated that the cycle of fasting-overeating affects the brain similar to the way physical exercise affects muscles."

***

Note: The mice who ate twice as much as normal on UDs did not lose weight. They maintained. But they still got all the other health benefits from IF.

There's lots of other good stuff by this author that explains what is happening to me! Like why I have more energy now and why I'm craving healthy, whole foods most of the time and on UDs I don't have a problem any more with portion control -- even if it's potato chips!!! This WOE has many more health benefits than weight loss. I mean reversal of diabetes??? Really?? I don't have it but my DH has T2 and it's a bummer.

Now I'm sneakily having him eat the JUDD way. He does not even know it. he just asked me to help him eat healthier and lose some weight. He is down almost 20 pounds and 2 inches off his waist!

Personally, I was experimenting with lowering my UD calories because I thought it would speed things up. It had the opposite effect!! So I raised my UD calories to where they are supposed to be and started losing and now I'm at a new low which I have not seen in several years. I'm also a bit more relaxed about sometimes eating as much as 35% on DDs and this seems to be working too.

On the DDs that I can, I go as low as possible. Sometimes around 200 calories. But, when my body tells me "not today, hon", I listen and even go as high as 700 or so.

I'm more in tune with my body. But it did not happen the first or even the second week of JUDDing. This takes a while. But when the SIRT genes start rockin' all this fabulous stuff starts happening! No wonder lots of people say they can do this for life! I'm now saying that!!!

Anybody else like me? Did you try deliberately to eat way less on UDs because you thought it would speed things up? Anybody experience upping their UD calories to the limit and start losing faster? I would love to hear about it.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #2
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Excellent information!! Thanks for sharing and keep it coming. It keeps me on track.

For me, I found that decreasing my up day calories decreased weight loss. For me, the greater the difference between my up day and down day calories, the better I seem to lose.

Last edited by sungoddess; 03-23-2012 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #3
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People have no concept of what this plan can do for them!!!!!

I suppose it is normal for people to approach all of this simply from the standpoint of wanting to lose weight. Period. And they are coming to this as a *diet plan*. And with heads filled with previously formed knowledge of calories and all the rest, they often are very inclined to cut UD calories down in order to lose faster, or because they know that number is too much for them or because it's simply too much to eat, etc.

And by so doing, they are in danger of missing out on the complete package that JUDDD can deliver, which is a better metabolic rate to enjoy for the rest of their life. Yeah, they can probably lose the weight. I mean, using it as a *diet* will work. But using it as a plan to get their body working well again just gets overlooked.

And sometimes they just don't have the patience to stick with it until JUDDD can fix them up to the point where they can become successful. It doesn't give them much weight loss within the first month of so. They're outta' here. LOL

And too often, that DD is *too hard to do* right at the beginning, so they throw in the towel and go on to the next diet. Or back to something that didn't work too well previously. LOL
I hate folks to try on their own, run into some problems, and dump and run before ever checking in here to let anybody know they need help in being successful with JUDDD. Very sad.

Because merely losing the weight is just the beginning of all the rest of your life. And frankly, despite all the hard work it takes, there are plenty of plans that you can lose the weight on.. if you do the work required on them. And if you can't lose the weight on any of those plans, maybe you need JUDDD to get you to a healthier state so that you can lose weight.

Well, I don't know, but I don't even really think of weight loss as the face of JUDDD. For quite awhile now, this plan represents healing and health to me, increased metabolism and all the rest.

Thanks for posting! I've loved reading the studies for years, and there's always new discoveries coming out. So I really appreciate the new studies over the old books, the new understanding that overrides the old concepts we always stood by so absolutely.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #4
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I have dropped my UD calories twice and have lost quickly doing so. I think, however, I'm in the minority. I will not be lowering my calories again, even if weight loss stops, until I've tried everything else, including increasing them. Only if nothing else works, will I even consider lowering them again. I really believe the first option should be to increase.

Intermittent fasting, in general, and JUDDD specifically has opened my eyes to a whole new world of eating (and not eating)! Amazing stuff.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #5
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Pat: Great post as always! I was reading something you posted the other day about how IF and JUDD causes the bad, toxic sells to be "eaten for lunch" and loved the way you put it.

This author also talks in depth about that and exactly how it works. IF is now being studied for preventing and healing cancer and even for treating AIDS! Can you believe it?? Why,yes, you can of course!!
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #6
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Dawn: One thing I think I learned from experimenting with lowering my UD calories is that I did it too soon. Meaning, I was losing inches like crazy but just didn't "believe" JUDD was working because the scale numbers were not going down fast.

Now I've learned that losing inches means the scale will catch up and it will go down! It's almost like a sign to me now. If I get BBS (baggy butt syndrome), or notice I can buckle my bra on the next smaller hooks and my back fat is shrinking then I know a drop in pounds is on the way.

I'm just so impatient! But I'm learning and getting more patient every day. Right now I'm seeing the scale numbers go down. But I fully expect that if that seems to stall, I will still be losing inches for a while and then see another drop.

I'm lovin' JUDD!
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
Excellent information!! Thanks for sharing and keep it coming. It keeps me on track.

For me, I found that decreasing my up day calories decreased weight loss. For me, the greater the difference between my up day and down day calories, the better I seem to lose.

Me too!
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post
Pat: Great post as always! I was reading something you posted the other day about how IF and JUDD causes the bad, toxic sells to be "eaten for lunch" and loved the way you put it.

This author also talks in depth about that and exactly how it works. IF is now being studied for preventing and healing cancer and even for treating AIDS! Can you believe it?? Why,yes, you can of course!!
LOL Why, yes I can. Indeed!

I guess as far as the weight loss part of it goes, I think like this:

Those folks who are always slim regardless of what they eat, and have a body with a good metabolism and everything is in good balance... we think of them as being so lucky and being blessed. Boy, it would sure be nice to be able to be like that too!

And we have an eating plan that can certainly take us a long way in that direction! We can lose the weight this way, and then stand an immeasurably better chance of keeping it off, as opposed to the vast majority who don't.

And not because we will be the few who pay attention to our plan and devote ourselves to remaining vigilant all the time. That's good, but the things that will be of even more benefit will by that we will become more insulin sensitive, our metabolism will speed up, our appetites will become more normalized, and much more.

So while we're slimming down and forming our bodies for the near future, these bodies we get to be so happy with and excited about in the near-term, by doing it with this JUDDD plan, we are also preparing to be able to manage that weight loss for the long-term instead of gaining the weight back! And those long-term bodies are going to be better able to experience health!
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #9
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This question is sort of the right place for this .. its is recommened the fast on a DD be 36 hours long.. now i i wake the next day and say i dont feel like eating till say 1200pm.. but from that point on consume all my daily alotment from that point on of 2000 calories.. will this be ok? I ask this because.. i have noticed that when i eat.. no matter what it is.. i seam to feel lathargic. and tired,, like i just crashed from a sugar high.. eating peanutbutter does not have any effect on me how ever, it more so with nuts, cheese and veggys.. any thoughts here..i feel so dang good when i dont eat at all and i thought if i could prolong that feeling till i was closer to comming home from work i would not be so tired
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #10
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Kimberly: I hope some more JUDD BUDDs will pop in and address this. I know I've read that some, is it Vicky and Dawn? And maybe more...do exactly that. They don't eat until dinner time on UDs and DDs only because that's where they want to spend most of their calories.

I've never been a breakfast eater, so I usually only have coffee in the mornings. Then on UDs I just wait until I'm hungry. Sometimes it's earlier in the day, sometimes later.

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this, too.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:16 PM   #11
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Well i really feel awfull once i start eating on an up day.. so i thought if i could prolong that feeling of well being for me while working, then make sure i eat what i need to .. that i wont make the body think its really starving and cause a stall.. thanks for letting me highjack this thread with my question.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
This question is sort of the right place for this .. its is recommened the fast on a DD be 36 hours long.. now i i wake the next day and say i dont feel like eating till say 1200pm.. but from that point on consume all my daily alotment from that point on of 2000 calories.. will this be ok? I ask this because.. i have noticed that when i eat.. no matter what it is.. i seam to feel lathargic. and tired,, like i just crashed from a sugar high.. eating peanutbutter does not have any effect on me how ever, it more so with nuts, cheese and veggys.. any thoughts here..i feel so dang good when i dont eat at all and i thought if i could prolong that feeling till i was closer to comming home from work i would not be so tired
I rarely eat at *breakfast time* regardless of which day it is. UD mornings never feel hungry to me, even though I'm waking up after a DD. So my JUDDD fasting period is most often closer to 40 hours.

I don't worry about it as long as I've spent the entire length of a nighttime-full Down Day-and nighttime again... a span of at least 36 hours, on only my DD calories. I feel that longer stretch of hours is a benefit to me over a shorter stretch of hours.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:40 PM   #13
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I was also thinking that's been said many times that it does not matter what you eat or when you eat, just so you keep the UD/DD rotation. That's my understanding and to my recollection Dr. J really does not say anything about timing. Just respect your calories on DD and UDs and it's all good!

Well, I'm out the door for my dinner date!

Dinner and a movie with DH. Will probably check in before I go nitey-nite!
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #14
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I eat on UDs and DDs whenever my body tells me I need to. Sometimes that means breakfast and sometimes it doesn't. My fasts are often 40 or 42 hours, but sometimes as little as 34-36 hours. I'm a bit odd in my schedule though anyway because I get up at 4:00 or 4:30 a.m.--just because I can't sleep later--and often won't eat until my scheduled lunch time at 1:00 p.m.

I almost never eat after dinner, and we have dinner fairly early, usually between 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. I will have wine after dinner on UDs, but don't drink after 9:00 p.m. (since I'm going to be up at 4:00, even if I stay up late).
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:28 PM   #15
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Thanks girls, that what i needed to hear, i know i will feel better doing it that way, at least for me,, love ya and have a great nite every one
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post
T

Studies by Dr. Mark Mattson, Professor in the Department of Neuroscience, Johns Hopkins University, and colleagues at the National Institute on Aging (2003) have shown that mice who followed intermittent fasting (one day fasting followed by overeating twice the amount of daily calories the next day) were surprisingly provided with substantial benefits, including increased life span, reversal of diabetes, and increased resilience to age-related brain damage. Researchers speculated that the cycle of fasting-overeating affects the brain similar to the way physical exercise affects muscles."


There's lots of other good stuff by this author that explains what is happening to me! Like why I have more energy now and why I'm craving healthy, whole foods most of the time and on UDs I don't have a problem any more with portion control -- even if it's potato chips!!! This WOE has many more health benefits than weight loss. I mean reversal of diabetes??? Really?? I don't have it but my DH has T2 and it's a bummer.

Now I'm sneakily having him eat the JUDD way. He does not even know it. he just asked me to help him eat healthier and lose some weight. He is down almost 20 pounds and 2 inches off his waist!

Personally, I was experimenting with lowering my UD calories because I thought it would speed things up. It had the opposite effect!! So I raised my UD calories to where they are supposed to be and started losing and now I'm at a new low which I have not seen in several years. I'm also a bit more relaxed about sometimes eating as much as 35% on DDs and this seems to be working too.

On the DDs that I can, I go as low as possible. Sometimes around 200 calories. But, when my body tells me "not today, hon", I listen and even go as high as 700 or so.

I'm more in tune with my body. But it did not happen the first or even the second week of JUDDing. This takes a while. But when the SIRT genes start rockin' all this fabulous stuff starts happening! No wonder lots of people say they can do this for life! I'm now saying that!!!

Anybody else like me? Did you try deliberately to eat way less on UDs because you thought it would speed things up? Anybody experience upping their UD calories to the limit and start losing faster? I would love to hear about it.
This is "our" Dr. Mattson, whom "our" Dr. J worked with on the alternate day diet studies, in case anyone didn't catch that.

Thanks for the great, informative post, YY! I information.

And I have portion control now too! It's I can put some potato chips on my plate, eat them, and not have to scarf down the whole bag. I'm satisfied. Whooee!

For me, no I did not try to eat less on UDs. If I was struggling to make UD calories due to appetite suppression, all it took was some wine in the evening, and I was up to my limit quite easily.

I had to find my "sweet spot" on UD calories. I started losing right away on JUDDD, but then upped my calories by hundreds (for some reason ) and the weight started coming back. So I experimented and found my range for weight loss, which was 1700-1800 calories on UD. Awesome thing is, in maintenance I eat so many more calories and not only not gain but have actually gradually lost more!

I thought my goal weight was 145#, but JUDDD had different ideas, lol. It is a fat-burning, muscle-sparing woe, so I imagine it's been whittling down the fat around my organs and other places it didn't want fat to be.

And yes, I'm a lifer with JUDDD... or at least JUDDD alternated with other kinds of IF. It works, it makes me happy, it gave me all these fabulous JUDDD buds....
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MAINTENANCE since 11/12/11, & have lost more weight. I shake things up all the time with my version of Pirate Jenny's MUDDD, my "Fast 5" & other IF. ...low-moderate fat....and eating "healthy" foods 75+% of the time which lets me have real life and indulgences too I've reached my goals, improved my health & appearance, and enjoy my lifetime woe!

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Old 03-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
This is "our" Dr. Mattson, whom "our" Dr. J worked with on the alternate day diet studies, in case anyone didn't catch that.

Thanks for the great, informative post, YY! I information.

And I have portion control now too! It's I can put some potato chips on my plate, eat them, and not have to scarf down the whole bag. I'm satisfied. Whooee!

For me, no I did not try to eat less on UDs. If I was struggling to make UD calories due to appetite suppression, all it took was some wine in the evening, and I was up to my limit quite easily.

I had to find my "sweet spot" on UD calories. I started losing right away on JUDDD, but then upped my calories by hundreds (for some reason ) and the weight started coming back. So I experimented and found my range for weight loss, which was 1700-1800 calories on UD. Awesome thing is, in maintenance I eat so many more calories and not only not gain but have actually gradually lost more!

I thought my goal weight was 145#, but JUDDD had different ideas, lol. It is a fat-burning, muscle-sparing woe, so I imagine it's been whittling down the fat around my organs and other places it didn't want fat to be.

And yes, I'm a lifer with JUDDD... or at least JUDDD alternated with other kinds of IF. It works, it makes me happy, it gave me all these fabulous JUDDD buds....
It's amazing to me that you kept losing on maintenance! And, without even trying. Maybe the longer we do this the more the fat burning happens. It certainly seems that way. The rotations are getting easier for me, the scale is moving down and my clothes are getting baggier. Awesome. And the icing on the cake is all you JUDDy BUDDy friends!
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yam-Yam View Post


It's amazing to me that you kept losing on maintenance! And, without even trying. Maybe the longer we do this the more the fat burning happens. It certainly seems that way. The rotations are getting easier for me, the scale is moving down and my clothes are getting baggier. Awesome. And the icing on the cake is all you JUDDy BUDDy friends!
Thanks, YamYam for this wonderful post. I love learning more and more about this woe. I really do believe that the fat burning increases as we go. I know that the exercise I do know seems to be even more effective than before.
I have one of those body fat measuring scales, and I am completely aware of its shortcomings. However, for consistency's sake, it is the same scale I have used for years. Yesterday, my body fat was in the "underweight " range for women. Not that I pay attention to that sort of thing, but without a doubt, my body fat has decreased dramatically, and moreso as I continue to JUDDD.
Sorry to ramble. I get so excited about all of this!
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:28 AM   #19
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Yam-Yam, thanks for posting that. It is a message we need to repeat again and again. For remembering. For celebrating.

Lately, I have been giving a lot of thought to the length of the DD fast. On average, 40 hours is the magic point where caloric stress response (which we want) escalates to starvation mode (metabolism slow down, hoarding fat and cannibalizing muscle, etc - which we don't want).

Several of us extend the DD fast for well over 40 hours. I, for one, certainly have as much energy after 45 hours of very low / no calorie eating as I did at the beginning.

I think it must be the metabolism-enhancing aspect of the DD/UD rotation. "On average" no longer seems to apply.

Golly, I am just finishing my third month JUDDDing. And I have seen so many changes in such a short time. I am SO looking forward to seeing the improvements a year or two or ten are going to make!
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GOAL 10/3/12
Still at goal 2/6/13
STILL below goal 2/15/14

I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmama View Post
Thanks, YamYam for this wonderful post. I love learning more and more about this woe. I really do believe that the fat burning increases as we go. I know that the exercise I do know seems to be even more effective than before.
I have one of those body fat measuring scales, and I am completely aware of its shortcomings. However, for consistency's sake, it is the same scale I have used for years. Yesterday, my body fat was in the "underweight " range for women. Not that I pay attention to that sort of thing, but without a doubt, my body fat has decreased dramatically, and moreso as I continue to JUDDD.
Sorry to ramble. I get so excited about all of this!
Wow! That's awesome! I love hearing about the fat burning, muscle preserving benefits of JUDD!!
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Yam-Yam, thanks for posting that. It is a message we need to repeat again and again. For remembering. For celebrating.

Lately, I have been giving a lot of thought to the length of the DD fast. On average, 40 hours is the magic point where caloric stress response (which we want) escalates to starvation mode (metabolism slow down, hoarding fat and cannibalizing muscle, etc - which we don't want).

Several of us extend the DD fast for well over 40 hours. I, for one, certainly have as much energy after 45 hours of very low / no calorie eating as I did at the beginning.

I think it must be the metabolism-enhancing aspect of the DD/UD rotation. "On average" no longer seems to apply.

Golly, I am just finishing my third month JUDDDing. And I have seen so many changes in such a short time. I am SO looking forward to seeing the improvements a year or two or ten are going to make!
Great post! Yes we need to learn, remember and celebrate! What you said about "on average" and how JUDD changes our metabolism is so important to know.

Kimberly: That is the answer to your question! Sounds like you already intuitively knew that waiting to eat is the right plan for you.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #22
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Like Sophie, after I'd been JUDDDing awhile and lost the weight, I started eating more on my UDs and the weight has continued to stay stable (or even slip down a little more). I'm AMAZED by how many calories I can eat and just bump up a little. My strict DDs always take it right back down. I really do think that my metabolism is better than it's ever been since I was a teen-ager. I am loving this WOE!
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by theredhead View Post
Like Sophie, after I'd been JUDDDing awhile and lost the weight, I started eating more on my UDs and the weight has continued to stay stable (or even slip down a little more). I'm AMAZED by how many calories I can eat and just bump up a little. My strict DDs always take it right back down. I really do think that my metabolism is better than it's ever been since I was a teen-ager. I am loving this WOE!
Woo Hoo! It seems like the worst mistake folks make is equating this way of eating to *the rest of those calorie reduction diets*... thinking you have to cut the calories in order to lose weight instead of following the calories long enough to let JUDDD fix what is wrong with you. I think most of us will experience eventual weight loss success if we have the patience to follow JUDDD, rather than to decide to not follow JUDDD and just cycle our own chosen calorie numbers. Maybe that's not even JUDDD for all I know. All I know is, that metabolic BOOST is most welcome. But I had to trust that all those UD calories weren't going to be too many for me. And now... I can eat a whole lot more than them!
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:31 AM   #24
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This is a great thread. Thanks so much for posting the science information. I find that very motivating.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:10 AM   #25
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This is a great thread. Thanks so much for posting the science information. I find that very motivating.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:48 AM   #26
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Bump. Really good info.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:20 AM   #27
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Amazingly good info. Thanks for the bump!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:46 AM   #28
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THANK YOU for bumping this back up.

I found this very helpful. I have found myself struggling to get my calories in and justifying not eating them all (who would have thought that would ever happen??? )
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:02 AM   #29
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Thanks for bumping!
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #30
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Quick question...whats the "ideal" calorie deficit between and UD and a DD...I cant find that info, sorry if it's been discussed before.

Kim
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