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Old 03-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #1
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JUDDD, The Book, and saturated fat...

Hi all. So I just got done reading The Alternate Day Diet. Fascinating stuff around the SIRT1 gene. (I am a total science geek like that! ) In the book in various chapters, there are references to the dangers of saturated fat and the connection to high cholesterol, heart disease, atherosclerosis, etc., etc. Now, being the science geek that I am, I've also read a lot of stuff from Gary Taubes, Michael Eades, et al around the fallacy of the lipid hypothesis. And being the low-carb veteran that I am, I have seen proof in my own body that a diet consisting of 50%+ calories from saturated fat does WAY more good than harm and that my lipids are impacted much more when I eat grains and sugar than when I eat bacon or beef.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has concerns about Dr. J's thoughts about saturated fat and that, other than eating low fat on DDs to save calories, like me, would take a chicken thigh with skin over a breast, any day...

Thoughts?
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #2
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I just ignored that part. I have read too much science behind this to believe his opinion on it. Just like I still avoid sugar and grain, too much out there showing how that is still bad for you.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #3
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I have no problems with his views. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
Of course, I hate chicken thighs and only eat the white meat anyway.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:44 PM   #4
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I've wondered about this. I know high fat plus carbs don't mix, so maybe because there are no limitations on carbs there is a limitation on fats.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:51 PM   #5
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The first time I read the book, I remember thinking, 'It is a good thing I found this forum and actually started JUDDDing before I read this. 'Cause if I had started with the book I would have ended without finishing the book.'

I had already read Taube, etc.

Instead of throwing the book across the room, I did some thinking:
Dr J is a plastic surgeon who paid attention to the world beyond plastic surgery. So, he was able to help - - his patient zero and begin his research into alternate day caloric restriction.

He did a LOT of research and I commend him for it.

However, I don't think he was motivated to dig deeply into all the different WOEs. After all, from his perspective, JUDDD was not going restrict certain foods. I think he bought 'common' knowledge about losing weight. In fact, I think he did some research and went beyond just common knowledge.

But he was not out to make weight loss his new career. So we get statements like (and I am putting these into the words I heard in my head while reading) 'drink shakes because overweight people will never take calorie counting on DD seriously' or 'don't worry too much about exercise because I know you aren't going to do it anyway' and (my personal fave) 'eating fat causes you to binge on fat '.

I bet, after real people started contacting him with questions, and losing weight, and maintaining on JUDDD - and he found out more about how determined we can be, he sometimes wished he could rewrite certain parts.

Dr J did a remarkable thing. He discovered something seriously wonderful for many people's health and weight. And he shared it with the world.

Read the book with your internal editor 'on'. All is well.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 03-18-2012 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
The first time I read the book, I remember thinking, 'It is a good thing I found this forum and actually started JUDDDing before I read this. 'Cause if I had started with the book I would have ended without finishing the book.'

I had already read Taube, etc.

Instead of throwing the book across the room, I did some thinking:
Dr J is a plastic surgeon who paid attention to the world beyond plastic surgery. So, he was able to help - - his patient zero and begin his research into alternate day caloric restriction.

He did a LOT of research and I commend him for it.

However, I don't think he was motivated to dig deeply into all the different WOEs. After all, from his perspective, JUDDD was not going restrict certain foods. I think he bought 'common' knowledge about losing weight. In fact, I think he did some research and went beyond just common knowledge.

But he was not out to make weight loss his new career. So we get statements like (and I am putting these into the words I heard in my head while reading) 'drink shakes because overweight people will never take calorie counting on DD seriously' or 'don't worry too much about exercise because I know you aren't going to do it anyway' and (my personal fave) 'eating fat causes you to binge on fat '.

I bet, after real people started contacting him with questions, and losing weight, and maintaining on JUDDD - and he found out more about how determined we can be, he sometimes wished he could rewrite certain parts.

Dr J did a remarkable thing. He discovered something seriously wonderful for many people's health and weight. And he shared it with the world.

Read the book with your internal editor 'on'. All is well.
I agree with you completely!

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Old 03-18-2012, 01:09 PM   #7
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And, Laranda, I think there is a whole lot left to be learned about metabolisms. When eating about the same calories every day, for many people carbs and fats don't mix. I am one of the them. If I ate carbs, I got a huge blood glucose rush followed by just about complete collapse.

For some of us, the sirtuin enzymes generated by calorie restriction seem to smooth that out. Over time, for some, carbs and fats become compatible and blood glucose stops bouncing like a JUDDD BUDDD's weight.

For other people, especially for type 2 diabetics, the situation is problematic. JUDDD stabilizes some and does not work it's carb magic on others.

LC and JUDDD are both ketogenic WOEs with very similar health and weight benefits. I hope someday someone does a whole lot more research. In the meantime, I am gradually moving myself to fasting on DD because I believe in caloric restriction as much as I believe that without caloric restriction carbs can be dangerous.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:42 PM   #8
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Nancy, I agree with you completely about carbs--some can eat them and some can't. Some can eat fats AND carbs together, some can't. I'm hoping to be one of the luckier ones who can add in the occasional treat but I'm not counting on it. I had already come to some similar conclusions while reading the book and I can certainly take what I want and leave the rest as far as medical opinions go! (I'd be dead if that weren't the case! ) I hope at some point Dr. J DOES try to dig in, as you say, to the works of Taubes and others, and reconsiders some of his statements in a future addition.

Thanks everyone for your careful thoughts and opinions on this.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:33 PM   #9
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Be patient with carbs, Shelby. After about three weeks on JUDDD I started testing little bits of one kind in a meal and watching what happened. After a month I could eat rice, potato took about six weeks, bread and sweets took me about two months.

That old JUDDD magic is patient. We have to be too. (Of course, losing a pound or two each week helped.)
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelbyla View Post
Hi all. So I just got done reading The Alternate Day Diet. Fascinating stuff around the SIRT1 gene. (I am a total science geek like that! ) In the book in various chapters, there are references to the dangers of saturated fat and the connection to high cholesterol, heart disease, atherosclerosis, etc., etc. Now, being the science geek that I am, I've also read a lot of stuff from Gary Taubes, Michael Eades, et al around the fallacy of the lipid hypothesis. And being the low-carb veteran that I am, I have seen proof in my own body that a diet consisting of 50%+ calories from saturated fat does WAY more good than harm and that my lipids are impacted much more when I eat grains and sugar than when I eat bacon or beef.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has concerns about Dr. J's thoughts about saturated fat and that, other than eating low fat on DDs to save calories, like me, would take a chicken thigh with skin over a breast, any day...

Thoughts?
I also read this w/a heavy sigh, thinking, "not again..." I also read Dr J's book after reading Taubes, Atkins, Eades, et al, so I had a hard time reading this part. I don't believe the evils of saturated fat, or believe you NEED whole grains in your diet. I struggle with my down days 'cause I want to eat that delicious fat, but settle for lower fat protein and less butter and cream ON DOWN DAYS only so I can get more food! I know I can have it the next day.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainemom View Post
I also read this w/a heavy sigh, thinking, "not again..." I also read Dr J's book after reading Taubes, Atkins, Eades, et al, so I had a hard time reading this part. I don't believe the evils of saturated fat, or believe you NEED whole grains in your diet. I struggle with my down days 'cause I want to eat that delicious fat, but settle for lower fat protein and less butter and cream ON DOWN DAYS only so I can get more food! I know I can have it the next day.
and this is me, also!! I think LC has taught me that eating "good fat" is not a problem and that processed carbs and fat are the issues, not fat and carbs together. I have had the best health and test results since LC and now since JUDDD so I'm just going to continue to use what I have learned from what I have read and my own experience and not worry about "the experts"!
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelbyla View Post
Hi all. So I just got done reading The Alternate Day Diet. Fascinating stuff around the SIRT1 gene. (I am a total science geek like that! ) In the book in various chapters, there are references to the dangers of saturated fat and the connection to high cholesterol, heart disease, atherosclerosis, etc., etc. Now, being the science geek that I am, I've also read a lot of stuff from Gary Taubes, Michael Eades, et al around the fallacy of the lipid hypothesis. And being the low-carb veteran that I am, I have seen proof in my own body that a diet consisting of 50%+ calories from saturated fat does WAY more good than harm and that my lipids are impacted much more when I eat grains and sugar than when I eat bacon or beef.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has concerns about Dr. J's thoughts about saturated fat and that, other than eating low fat on DDs to save calories, like me, would take a chicken thigh with skin over a breast, any day...

Thoughts?
I haven't read the other replies yet, but wanted to chime in with how I reacted to Dr. J's "saturated fat is bad" in the book back when I read it.

He's a plastic surgeon who got interested in helping his patients with their weight-loss struggle and so he participated in the studies done on alternate-day diets. He isn't a nutritionist. Perhaps he isn't well read on low carb diets. He probably felt like he had to stick to the typical advice, which is low-fat = good, saturated fat = bad.

So knowing what I know now about the benefits of the saturated fats, I just read right on by that part of his book and went on to the real "beef" - the info about the sirtuins and how JUDDD worked in the studies.

Adding - Just read the other replies, and I agree with those who said these "fatty" parts in the book almost turned them off to the woe... if I hadn't done LC reading by Taubes and others as well as on LCF forum, and then come to the JUDDD forum to read some more, I might have decided "eh, just another diet I can't follow cause I don't believe these fats are bad and I'm not giving them up to do this diet."
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Last edited by sophiethecat; 03-18-2012 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelbyla View Post
Hi all. So I just got done reading The Alternate Day Diet. Fascinating stuff around the SIRT1 gene. (I am a total science geek like that! ) In the book in various chapters, there are references to the dangers of saturated fat and the connection to high cholesterol, heart disease, atherosclerosis, etc., etc. Now, being the science geek that I am, I've also read a lot of stuff from Gary Taubes, Michael Eades, et al around the fallacy of the lipid hypothesis. And being the low-carb veteran that I am, I have seen proof in my own body that a diet consisting of 50%+ calories from saturated fat does WAY more good than harm and that my lipids are impacted much more when I eat grains and sugar than when I eat bacon or beef.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has concerns about Dr. J's thoughts about saturated fat and that, other than eating low fat on DDs to save calories, like me, would take a chicken thigh with skin over a breast, any day...

Thoughts?
i love the book and it helps a lot with how to eat. it does not help at all with what to eat. it was published in 2008 and even then we knew a lot more about fats than what is reflected here. terrible fats he has listed as being good; like canola oil and soy oil. i eat a lot of fat. less on DDs because of the cals but i make up for it on UDs.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #14
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I don't believe saturated fats are dangerous. I think some people eat saturated fats beyond the amount Mother Nature planned on.

Other than the Eskimo people of the far, far north who adapted to eat great quantities of blubber and fats over the eons of their migration into the Great North, most humans eat the game animals that abound in their own areas of the world, and those are prairies and savannahs and forests and jungles, etc.. not frozen tundras and ice pack areas of almost perpetual winter where animals had to grow layers of blubber to stay alive.

Most game animals are NOT heavily fat. We eat wild game as one protein addition to the other animal protein we enjoy. I've eaten venison, of course, as well as pronghorn antelope and bison (buffalo). I've eaten wild rabbits and squirrels, wild turkeys and pheasants, and I've eaten raccoon and beaver!!! This wild meat isn't high in fat. Not remotely as fat-laden as the domestic meats we've developed and eat.

So while I believe we are intended to eat some saturated fat, I do believe we are not designed to eat it in the quantity that some people gorge on it.

I also don't believe in the horror of carbs. But I believe differently about carbohydrate consumption than most here do, so..... And that is that it is the third macro-nutrient and the earth isn't covered with growing lush plant life, and we aren't intended to chew on much of it.

But I also think we are all pretty free to eat as we want to, as we enjoy, as we feel the best and most robust and energetic and healthy and joyful doing. So I don't much care what others eat or don't eat or even what they believe or don't. I just enjoy doing my thing and eating pretty much some of everything.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #15
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I completely disagree with his take on sat fat, and I think the science just isn't there to support the outdated misinformation fed to us by the AMA about it.

However, having said that, I think that regular commercial meats are quite unhealthy due to the way they are raised, the genetically modified garbage they are fed, and the various stuff they are injected with.

Go local, go pastured, go organic, go wild.

My beef is raised with love hubby calls them pedicured cows
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #16
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I love that being on LC has taught me about fats, whole grains, carbs, sugars etc and how they effect my body.

I did enjoy reading the book- but like many have said I fully agree that one does not NEED whole grains- or NEED to stay away from saturated fats!

I was a little put off when reading that, and I too am glad I had been JUDDDing for over a month before reading it.

I'm glad that there are others here that feel the same way- I was beginning to feel a bit hypocritical. It almost seemed like Dr. J was saying I had to choose between Low Carb and JUDDD But to each their own and I'm glad that I can get the benefits of both diets.

Glad to know that I am not alone!!

I do wonder sometimes if it is good to "pick a little of this diet" and "pick a little of that diet" But I also agree with the fact that DR J may have wanted to rewrite some if it had he done more research and after "real" people started doing the diet. You may be on to something there!
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