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Old 02-05-2012, 01:40 AM   #1
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Up days turning into binge days

I was worried this would happen. I kept it low carb at first, and felt very in control. However, it was hard to eat the amount of calories I need for up days (1800) so I started eating junk (how does that make sense?) Anyway, I do not feel in control nor do I feel healthy. Also, I kind of feel like I need to eat a lot on up days because down days are so restrictive. Some general info: I have lost weight and have only been at this for six days. I track and weigh every morsel that I consume. This is my rotation: 1816/363 at 20% w/ no exercise. So, it is working, it just feels very...stressful?

Any advice? I'm going back to counting carbs in addition to calories, maybe try and introduce them more slowly?
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:57 AM   #2
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I introduced very slowly so i think thats a good idea. There are a lot of people who get on junk binges at first with JUDDD and then usually you get over it pretty quickly. I didnt really have any binges but i did go crazy with some junk at first and now its like i know i can have it so its not that big of an issue. I am eating more carbs now but i pick and chose them and they more healthy carbs and maybe just one crazy unhealthy carb every few days. I went from eating lowcarb for 7yrs so this has been huge for me so going slowly really helped me. I say if you feel that bad and unhealthy about it but are still losing then you know you can incorporate carbs and be ok just pick and chose what kind of carbs. If you need to up your calories without using tons of junk try adding evoo when you are cooking or to your salad or using coconut oil. Some good fats will help up the calories pretty quickly. Or a serving of almonds or mixed nuts with some cheese.
This woe is all about you feeling wonderful so listen to your body. Maybe you wont have to count carbs just pick healthier carbs and continue counting calories.
Good luck you are doing great!!!
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:08 AM   #3
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The first few weeks were kinda like that for me too. I think having been on LC for years makes it feel like you won the lottery! I always tracked even through all the junk food. (500 calories for a cookie!? Pretty damn good cookie!) Anyhow, it's been a little over a month for me now and things have really calmed down. Like Shelly said, now that you can have it, it becomes less of a big deal. Sometimes I think....I CAN HAVE A POTATO! Well, I wait until my UD so I can put all the junk in it that I like, I count the calories and feel like I gave myself a delicious treat! Be patient with yourself and your cravings will calm down. For me, this WOE was about not cutting anything out anymore. I needed a balance (and bread), and I knew after reading hundreds and hundreds of posts I could find it here.

Maybe up those DD calories a bit so they aren't so stressful for you. My calculations have me eating less than 400 but I tend to stay right around 500. It's funny how a 150 calories make such a difference.

You are doing great! I know things will mellow out for you soon!
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:09 AM   #4
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My suggestion, since you are only just starting JUDDD, is to make your DD number 500. Trying to go so low when you are just starting is going to feel torturous. Plus, there's no need...the good doctor tells us so for the first 2 weeks. 500 will work. They will feel more tolerable. Then after two weeks, natural appetite suppression should start to kick in and you will find it much easier (most of the time, anyway) to eat to a lower DD number if you want to.

I also think you are right to go back and keep it LC for a while. If it helps you to control binge-like activity, then I'm all for it. We can help you with suggestions of how to up your intake on UDs without feeling like you *have* to resort to junk. After a time on JUDDD, your way of thinking about food will actually change...your brain will realize that you really can have *some* cake (for example) for the rest of your life, so that you don't have to have *all* of the cake today. If that makes sense, lol.

I'm starting you a list of LC, high-calorie UD foods:

Coconut oil
Bacon
Ground beef (think: cheeseburgers)
Fattier cuts of beef
Cheese
Cream cheese
Heavy cream in your coffee
Nuts

I'm sure others can kick in more ideas for you, too.

Keep posting...we'll give you all the support you need!
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:11 AM   #5
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elle, I quite worried about binging on up days as well. I am fairly suggestable and when I first starting my weight loss journey, I pretended that I had had WLS and had no choice but to eat Lowcarb/lean protein. It worked for me.

Now with this WOE, I have really thought about how the UDs are as much of a tool as the DDs. Those are your renourishment days, so you need to make good choices for the most part. Today will be a bit of a treat day for me because of SB Sunday, but for the most part I make UDs yummy, but good for me foods. Good luck!
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:14 AM   #6
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Great advice already given to you, so I echo it.

Yes, add carbs back slowly, and make them the healthier, whole ones, at least at first.

A couple slices of good bread to make a meat/cheese/veggie sandwich, and that bread, depending on type, can easily add 100 calories and more.

Along with your LC meal, you could try a baked potato loaded down with all the goods, like butter, melted cheese, sour cream.

Make your DDs 500. After what you've been eating, that will feel marvelously freeing, and even go a bit higher if you really need it.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:14 AM   #7
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I am still kind of doing this but I think it's a mindset too. When I eat something high carb, I automatically FEEL like I've binged or been "bad" bc I've got that in my head now. I'm GLAD I low carbed and can recognize sugar in things like bread where I didn't see it before. But that doesn't mean if I have a couple of slices of bread, I'm being bad. (at least not on JUDDD). I don't know my up calories but I'd guess it's really not as bad as I think it is...I've been maintaining a nice weight

My suggestion would be to start off with a nice satisfying breakfast on your UDs. I find UDs when I don't do that are much worse...

Good luck and consider it PRACTISE!!!
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #8
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Thanks guys! You're all so helpful and understanding. I was stressing out because
I can get a little obsessive with weight loss and each day felt a little extreme...eat eat eat! Fast fast fast! But, I do need more time to adjust. Also, I have nothing but bad experiences from my weight watchers days and I didn't want this to be like that.

Some more questions:
If I raise my dd to 500, do I keep my up day the same? (1800)
I'm less hungry w/ LC so, if I don't eat 1800 on my UD, should I try to eat more?

Thanks again for the help and suggestions!
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
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Hmm...1800 seems a little high to me. I'm almost 5'8 and that is my maintainence up day? (and I do exercise) You are only 5'1...when I use the calculator w/your height, I get 1600 calories. So my answer to your question is "no" - if you don't feel like eating to 1800 then don't!

As to the 500 DDs, I'm not sure bc I've never gone below that. If I do go below, then I get into "don't want to eat until I'm passing out" mode...and I prefer not to go there!

GL,
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #10
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I do this LC and I don't always hit my 1500 UD number. I don't believe in forcing myself to eat when I'm not hungry just to hit a number. I do try to get as close as I can by adding things like coconut oil to my UDs.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey_gal View Post
Hmm...1800 seems a little high to me. I'm almost 5'8 and that is my maintainence up day? (and I do exercise) You are only 5'1...when I use the calculator w/your height, I get 1600 calories. So my answer to your question is "no" - if you don't feel like eating to 1800 then don't!

As to the 500 DDs, I'm not sure bc I've never gone below that. If I do go below, then I get into "don't want to eat until I'm passing out" mode...and I prefer not to go there!

GL,
Thanks Deanne,

I thought it was high too
does the calculator you used ask for age? I'm 22 so I think it thinks my metabolism can handle more calories.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:52 AM   #12
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Something one of the other posters said recently really resonated with me. It was along the lines that our Up Days are where we practice "normal" eating for eventual maintenance. Not dieting. Not feasting and treating oneself. Normal eating.

Maybe it hit home to me because I can't remember when I EVER felt like I could eat "normally". I've always been either on a diet, rebounding from a failed diet and binging, or preparing to start another diet.

The idea that the UD is a "normal" day (rather than the "feast" day I initially treated it as) has really changed how I face my UDs. And I find that I don't binge on UDs like I did at the beginning. It has really evened out now.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:45 AM   #13
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You've written here: ".....Up days turning into binge days. I was worried this would happen....."

The best way to solve this problem is to follow JUDDD.

That is, actually do JUDDD as a calorie-focused plan which balances your calories as it balances your days. There is a reason we are given that so-called *Normal* number of calories for our UDs.

The tendency for some is to blow off doing any work on those Up Days, and to skip the counting of calories related to the UDs, to not measure out food, to just estimate the calorie numbers, or..... to just treat them as completely Free Days..... to not be adhered to at all, regardless of whether they are coming in very short or very over that suggested calorie number.

But if you are following your UD calorie number, it's a whole lot harder to binge. There isn't room to go too far afield and still be under that calorie ceiling number.

And the reverse is also true. Many report that when they aren't counting their calories, they don't know whether they are remotely coming up to the number of calories they have as their UD number... and the following Down Days are more difficult to get through, since they don't go into them being well fueled from a good, full Up Day.

There is a good reason why these two days work well with each other, not just for our weight loss, but for how easy it gets to be to do the fasting days without any hunger or discomfort.

It's hard to follow a low carb eating plan when you pay little attention to your carb consumption, and that sort of ruins the successful outcome of the plan. The same is true of a calorie counted plan, where.. if you don't accurately count the calories, you may well be.. just.. eating. At will. And lucky if you get much success from the plan.

As to the eating of carbs, that has nothing to do with JUDDD. That's 100% up to you. Many come to JUDDD just because they intend to start eating carbs again. But it isn't a free license to overeat again, and if you are going to change your eating plan, JUDDD doesn't care.. it just has nothing to do with JUDDD. That has to do with you. But if you decide to eat more carbs at the same time you also change your eating schedule by following JUDDD, then it's doubly important to count the UD calories as well as the DD ones.

Good luck with whatever foods you choose to include in your diet plan, and also with this cycling *way of eating* your chosen foods. JUDDD works for most who follow it, and I know it will for you too. It just takes a little work, and I think sometimes we don't really accept that part of the deal at first! But the more you are actually *doing* JUDDD, the better it will work for you for some really good weight loss. At the same time you are eating at whatever carb level you choose.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synger View Post
Something one of the other posters said recently really resonated with me. It was along the lines that our Up Days are where we practice "normal" eating for eventual maintenance. Not dieting. Not feasting and treating oneself. Normal eating.

Maybe it hit home to me because I can't remember when I EVER felt like I could eat "normally". I've always been either on a diet, rebounding from a failed diet and binging, or preparing to start another diet.

The idea that the UD is a "normal" day (rather than the "feast" day I initially treated it as) has really changed how I face my UDs. And I find that I don't binge on UDs like I did at the beginning. It has really evened out now.
I was trying to illustrate to somebody one of the reasons why we actually DO correct UDs, beyond just being told that it's the *eating* day. The weeks, and sometimes months, it takes us to get to weight goal will form our new eating habits for life and our future successful maintenance. No wonder so many aren't able to keep off the weight they work so hard to lose. The work to do their plan correctly doesn't really teach them any particular new habits, if they haven't done any of the work to begin with.

But you've sort of brought up a good point here. Our UDs are our feasting days which oppose our fasting days in the up/down cycle. But somewhere in our lives we must have started to think of feasting as synonymous with overeating, gorging, stuffing ourselves, etc. And truthfully, regardless of our UD calorie number, we can most definitely feast and indulge on our UDs. Plenty of room there for feasts for our eyes and our paletes.

I hope you will enjoy many *feasts* on your normal Up Days, as you practice the joy of eating for maintenance for the rest of your life.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
I was trying to illustrate to somebody one of the reasons why we actually DO correct UDs, beyond just being told that it's the *eating* day. The weeks, and sometimes months, it takes us to get to weight goal will form our new eating habits for life and our future successful maintenance. No wonder so many aren't able to keep off the weight they work so hard to lose. The work to do their plan correctly doesn't really teach them any particular new habits, if they haven't done any of the work to begin with.

But you've sort of brought up a good point here. Our UDs are our feasting days which oppose our fasting days in the up/down cycle. But somewhere in our lives we must have started to think of feasting as synonymous with overeating, gorging, stuffing ourselves, etc. And truthfully, regardless of our UD calorie number, we can most definitely feast and indulge on our UDs. Plenty of room there for feasts for our eyes and our paletes.

I hope you will enjoy many *feasts* on your normal Up Days, as you practice the joy of eating for maintenance for the rest of your life.
You make a good point. To me, feasting = binging. And unrestricted days = feasting.

So I have found that with JUDDD I am able to (slooowly) redefine unrestricted or non-diet days to be less about binging and more about normal balance. I've never had a plan where I could eat "normally" even one day in the week, let alone 3 or 4. It's a new eating head-space for me, and one that is helping me IMMENSELY as I learn a new way of relating to food.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:35 AM   #16
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I have problems binging at night if I have carby foods later in the day.
For me, I can't eat carby foods after lunch time or else the cravings hit.
You may have to play around to see if you have a trigger.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laranda View Post
Thanks Deanne,

I thought it was high too
does the calculator you used ask for age? I'm 22 so I think it thinks my metabolism can handle more calories.
I put in 21 and it comes up with 1586 for UDs.

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I'm a pretty a pretty solid woman so I'm pretty sure you don't need as much food as I do.

Keep going and you'll get it straight!
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by synger View Post
Something one of the other posters said recently really resonated with me. It was along the lines that our Up Days are where we practice "normal" eating for eventual maintenance. Not dieting. Not feasting and treating oneself. Normal eating.
I just played with the online calculator and I noticed that my UD calories stayed exactly the same in every category. Thanks for the reminder.

I don't feel like JUDDD is a diet. I'd get into an explanation but I'm threadjacking here
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:29 PM   #19
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Thanks again for the help everyone. I understand, one does not need to low carb on this WOE, but knowing I *could* eat carbs kind of made me overdue it. For example, if I had enough calories, I would use the rest of them with a treat. Then I would have a dd and feel starved. Then on my next up day I would over eat because I didn't want to feel starved the next day.

Completely my bad. Not to mention, I seem to have had my Ud/dd numbers wrong *duh*. Well, live and learn.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:04 AM   #20
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I love the learning part of JUDDD! I love knowing I can never go too wrong because DD adjusts what ever happened yesterday.

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