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Old 01-25-2012, 02:17 PM   #1
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Blood sugar questions

I just got my test strips, and I'm checking to see how carbs affect my bs. I haven't had a lot of experience with this (just the last couple of months of my last pregnancy 5 years ago), so was wondering if someone could look at these numbers and let me know if they look ok.

Lunch was 1/2 grilled ham and cheese, grapes and a salad--total carbs 30g. At 1 hour, I tested at 140, 2 hours 83. I know the 2 hour is fine, is the 1 hour a bit high for that small number of carbs?

Yesterday on my DD I was under 90 every time I tested, but I also only had 12 gms carb all day.

What am I looking for target wise for those readings?

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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I'm sure those who know more will respond shortly, but.. Boy! I think those numbers look really, really good.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:27 PM   #3
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The Blood Sugar 101 site is incredible for info like this.

I have been wondering too because I have seen similar numbers when eating anywhere between 30-50 carbs in one meal. I am much lower carb most of the time, as it seems you are, and I know on the BS101 site I read to give yourself a 10-point cushion if you are a low carber and then consume carbs because your body will react more strongly.

From all that I've read, your numbers are totally fine. The question I really have--but have refrained from bugging Jenny or anyone about --is, is it better to never have that spike at all? In other words, your body is completely handling the carbs as it should, but is it better to consume a meal like eggs and bacon where bs won't go over 90 even at the one hour point? Or is it better to keep up that tolerance for carbs and as long as you're down at the two hour all is well? I'm not sure. I know that's not really a question that has much to do with JUDDD or how it works, but as I vacillate between low carb/moderate carb/JUDDD it's one of the things I ponder.

Forgive the ramble. LOL! I've been really curious about this. I had gestational diabetes 7 years ago and have been fine since (though clearly overweight) and once I started low -ish carbing I pulled out the meter and started investigating.

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
The Blood Sugar 101 site is incredible for info like this.

I have been wondering too because I have seen similar numbers when eating anywhere between 30-50 carbs in one meal. I am much lower carb most of the time, as it seems you are, and I know on the BS101 site I read to give yourself a 10-point cushion if you are a low carber and then consume carbs because your body will react more strongly.

From all that I've read, your numbers are totally fine. The question I really have--but have refrained from bugging Jenny or anyone about --is, is it better to never have that spike at all? In other words, your body is completely handling the carbs as it should, but is it better to consume a meal like eggs and bacon where bs won't go over 90 even at the one hour point? Or is it better to keep up that tolerance for carbs and as long as you're down at the two hour all is well? I'm not sure. I know that's not really a question that has much to do with JUDDD or how it works, but as I vacillate between low carb/moderate carb/JUDDD it's one of the things I ponder.

Forgive the ramble. LOL! I've been really curious about this. I had gestational diabetes 7 years ago and have been fine since (though clearly overweight) and once I started low -ish carbing I pulled out the meter and started investigating.
I would hate to think that Mother Nature's design to keep everything in fine balance wasn't ever intended to be used. Even before the start of agriculture, where supposedly everything went downhill from there.. our primitive ancestors must have dug the tubers, ate the wild fruits, licked the sweet running sap and the dark honey.

It would take an awful lot of convincing for me to ever believe that the response we get was never intended to occur at all.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #5
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I think we all spike and then drop if we are healthy. 140 seems good to me for post prandial BS.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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I don't know about that 140 because I've read that diabetics (all my siblings) are warned that 140 is the critical number where organ damage can begin to result, so it seems to me that a non-diabetic should not be spiking to 140--especially with the limited amount of carbs that OP consumed.

Perhaps asking Jenny on her BloodSugar 101 website would be useful.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:38 PM   #7
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I'm not sure on this either, but hopefully Pirate Jenny or StardustShadow will come along.

Here's a long thread about similar issues: Blood Sugar & JUDDD

I did a test something like this a while back, I think early November, where I ate a meal, then checked my BS every 15 minutes for over 2 hours.

I ate:
1 c. Hormel Vegetarian chili
1 grilled cheese sandwich made from 2 slices Nickell 35 calorie bread and 2 slices of processed cheese
1/2 Pure Protein Chocolate Chip bar

Calories: 514
Fat: 14 g.
Protein: 33 g.
Carbs: 66 g (not taking into account fiber or sugar alcohols)

My BS an hour after eating was 105 and two hours later was 114, which was as high as it went during my recording.

But, that was just one meal, and who knows what it would be with other combinations of foods?

I haven't checked it in a long time. You've reminded me I should at least be checking it when I wake up.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
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I love you, Pat!!! So funny . . . and such good common sense too. My mother said the same thing--as long as it comes down it's all good. I guess I'm just wondering that, for someone predisposed to type 2 (because of the gestational diabetes) if it's better to keep the spikes lower.

I have been thinking way too much about this--can you tell?
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:15 PM   #9
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I read that about the 140 too, Leo41. What I couldn't tell is if it was hitting 140 or *sustained* blood sugars of that amount that were damage-causing.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
I love you, Pat!!! So funny . . . and such good common sense too. My mother said the same thing--as long as it comes down it's all good. I guess I'm just wondering that, for someone predisposed to type 2 (because of the gestational diabetes) if it's better to keep the spikes lower.

I have been thinking way too much about this--can you tell?
LOL Well, like I said, I don't know because I'm not affected by it. There will undoubtedly be others here over the evening though. They'll have some good thought on the subject for our consideration.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #11
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Thanks, Pat.

There have been so many great discussions here--what a fabulous group!
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #12
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Assuming you're not diabetic, and your starting BG was under 90, that is a bit high...especially for that number of carb grams.

According to various sources I've read, a "truly normal" person's BG would not be over 120 1 hour after eating.

It's nothing to panic over...home meters have a 10-15% margin of error, so that could have been a false high...but I think it's good that you're checking. I would perhaps have the same meal tomorrow (or whenever it fits into your plan) without the grapes, and see what your reading is.
Quote:
The question I really have--is it better to never have that spike at all? In other words, your body is completely handling the carbs as it should, but is it better to consume a meal like eggs and bacon where bs won't go over 90 even at the one hour point?
Yes, I think it's better to never have that spike at all.
I mean, I just had some potato chips and a sandwich on a regular bun,
so I'm not living the spike-free life and I'm certainly not lecturing anyone!
Quote:
Or is it better to keep up that tolerance for carbs and as long as you're down at the two hour all is well?
But IMO that's sort of like saying it's okay to get sunburned as long as your skin heals in a few days.

I also don't know if there's such a thing as "keeping up a tolerance for carbs".
Can you elaborate?
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #13
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I had to run out for a minute--

for me, there is no "keeping up a tolerance for carbs".
Maybe for other people there is.

I don't feel the effects of carbs as strongly (racing heartbeat, fatigue) if I truly limit them to once a week or so.
But when I try to eat even a small amount every day, the effects seem to get worse and worse.

As you may know, we store glucose in our livers and glycogen in our muscles. I'm kind of guessing here...but I think maybe if I haven't eaten carbs in a few days, those stores have been depleted and there's somewhere for new glucose to go, so it gets cleared out of my bloodstream more quickly. If they're full, then it's a tougher job...up to insulin & the kidneys. I pee a LOT more often if I have any actual sugar or fruit juice.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #14
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Thank you so much, Jenny! That was very helpful and addresses exactly what I've been questioning.

As far as keeping up a tolerance for carbs, I probably didn't express that clearly. I simply meant the notion that being on a low carb diet for some time will create less tolerance for carbs in the future--things that I've read here anecdotally, or experiences I've read where paleo moms-to-be will eat a SAD diet for a few days before their glucose tolerance test lest they get pegged for gestational diabetes because their bodies are no longer accustomed to large influxes of sugar. Diabetes or pre-diabetes is a whole other can of worms.

I love the sunburn analogy. That's perfect. Yeah, if I eat eggs and bacon or a meal of steak and salad, my one-hour and two-hour are both under 100. If I have something like 40+ carbs in one meal, then the one hour will be between 130-145 and the two hour will be well under 120. It definitely has me thinking.

I've read so many JUDDD threads--I am quite the stalker for someone who seems to be just flirting with JUDDD --and found the blood sugar threads fascinating.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:25 PM   #15
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Thanks for your thoughts. The 140 was a bit startling to me, which is why I posted.

Yesterday, a DD, with only 12.5 carbs all day, my number was never over 90, and usually 75-80.

I wasn't able to test after dinner at 2 hours because I was out, but just did and at 3 hours it was 110. Again 30g carbs for the meal.

Tomorrow is a DD, so won't really get any new info. But I'll see what I get on Fri and try to eat the same thing without the grapes (good idea). I know bananas spike my bs off the charts. Might have to stick to lower fructose fruits. And I think I'm seeing that my carb levels are going to have to likely stay in the lower/moderate range to keep a handle on things.

After the reading I've done on insulin and the damage it can cause in our bodies, I'd prefer not to have the spike, actually. Or at least to only have it rarely.

Jenny, your thoughts have been especially helpful. Thank you. I'll keep you updated.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
at 3 hours it was 110. Again 30g carbs for the meal.
I'm not sure if you've stated anywhere whether you're diabetic,
but that definitely seems a bit high to me if you're not.
And that's not a high-carb meal by most standards!!!

What's your fasting BG (when you wake up)?
Because my diabetes is "mild" and I don't take insulin,
that's the only number my doctor is monitoring.

I'm no expert on diabetes but I sure am glad if my comments were helpful!
I felt pretty clever when the sunburn analogy popped into my head--
I adore good analogies!
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:55 PM   #17
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Coincidentally, I was just listening to an old Kurt Harris interview on the Jimmy Moore show. I'd paused it earlier today and just went back to it . . . he was talking about potatoes and how if you've been quite low carb for a while, have a potato, and see a blood glucose spike, not to freak out. After a few weeks of being back on the sauce as it were , then take the readings. He was not speaking of diabetics, of course. Simplistic I am sure, but I'm wondering what your carb levels have been like recently, and if a 30g meal is atypical at this point.

Just a thought.

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Old 01-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #18
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This is very interesting. Thanks for discussing it here!
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:05 PM   #19
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Also, it can be more accurate to test every 15 minutes after eating.
At the one-hour mark, your BG may already be coming down;
the peak of the spike will often hit at around 30 or 45 minutes for me
(and others that I have seen "testing" certain foods & posting results online).
I know that testing strips can get expensive...and if you're not taking insulin,
there's no reason to test that often other than out of curiosity.

But doing it once or twice may give you a better idea of what's going on.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Also, it can be more accurate to test every 15 minutes after eating.
At the one-hour mark, your BG may already be coming down;
the peak of the spike will often hit at around 30 or 45 minutes for me
(and others that I have seen "testing" certain foods & posting results online).
I know that testing strips can get expensive...and if you're not taking insulin,
there's no reason to test that often other than out of curiosity.

But doing it once or twice may give you a better idea of what's going on.
Yes, I did this experiment that I mentioned above after you explained how to do it, and it was eye opening.

Thanks for this thread MKT and great info, PJ, Temple & you guys.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #21
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Not diabetic. Just aware because I had gest diab (actually my midwife called it pre-gd because I was able to control it completely with diet).

And my meals prior were not likely that high in carbs. I don't have a lot to go on, since I wasn't logging for most of my weight loss period. But I did log a week in sept in ******, and my days were 30-50g total for the day.

I've been experimenting with increasing carbs a bit on UD's, but it's looking to me like I'm not going to be able to do that. At least not yet. (1 week + a couple days on JUDDD so far).

I may try a 30g lunch again on my next UD and test every 15 minutes just to see what happens.

My fasting yesterday was 85. I didn't do one today because I was running behind getting everyone up and ready to go.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:16 PM   #22
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My fasting yesterday was 85.
That's excellent!!!

Perhaps your post-prandials indicate an early stage of IR.
That is, you're having a pretty normal reaction to the carbs in your food,
and you're producing sufficient insulin, but it's taking a little longer to do what it's supposed to because you're insulin resistant.
Again...just kind of guessing...I'm not a doctor!

I'm very curious to see what your 30- and 45-minute readings are, though!
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:50 AM   #23
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My sister controlled her gestational diabetes with diet alone (no meds) but it was still considered full-blown gestational diabetes, not 'pre-.'

After her successful delivery, both her OB and endo warned her that unless she continued to eat low carb, she was in danger of developing Type 2.

She ate as she had done in the past, carbs and all, and was soon a Type 2 diabetic.

Eating low carb does NOT make a person 'more sensitive' to carbs. According to Dr. Atkins, a person's CCL is fairly constant. Eating low carb is simply a personal choice, and a healthy choice for me personally. All my siblings are Type 2, and my endo believes that my low carb eating is what has kept me from developing the disease.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:31 AM   #24
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This morning fasting was 91.

Thanks for your thoughts Leo. I agree with what you said. And I'm fine with eating LC if that's what it takes. I'm sure I've been IR in the past. I was just hoping 6 months Paleo had helped the issue.

I'll track meals and levels for a few days/week and see what's going on. Then discuss where to go from here with my naturopath (I'll be seeing him in a couple weeks to discuss my follow up cortisol test I just sent in).
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #25
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Just something else that may interest you. My fasting blood sugar is always 92-93, which concerned me because it seems high for someone who eats very low carb.

My endo wasn't concerned, and he told me that the A1C, which he also tests, is a better indicator, and mine is usually about 5.7--well in the normal range.

Then I read on the Hyperlipid blog that low carb people often have a higher than normal fasting BG (something similar to the dawn phenomenon that diabetics experience), but it is a false high and is meaningless.

I asked my endo, and he was surprised that I knew that, and he said it was true, which is why he relies on my A1C to check my blood sugar.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:16 AM   #26
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What an interesting thread! Thanks everyone for sharing.

Thanks for sharing that link, Jenny. Pretty scary stuff. I read it and then read some areas of Jenny Ruhl's site that I hadn't perused in a while and found this (hope it is okay to quote?):


A Special Consideration if You Have Been Eating A Low Carb Diet

If you are currently eating a low carb diet--especially a diet that provies less than 75 g of carbohydrate a day, your post-meal test result will be slightly higher than it would be if you were eating over 150 grams of carbs a day. That is why, if you were going in for an official post-meal test or a glucose tolerance test ordered by your doctor, you would be told that you have to eat 150 grams of carbohydrate during 3 days before your test to get a valid result. However, since this is an informal test you probably don't want to stop your diet for that long. So when you get your result, you can make an informal adjustment to your post-meal test results that will account for the fact that low carbing temporarily raises your post-meal values when you eat an unaccustomed large dose of carbohydrate.
To make this correction, just subtract 10 mg/dl from any post-meal result that is over 140 mg/dl at 2 hours if you are currently low carbing. This is a very rough estimate, but close enough for this kind of home testing.
--Blood Sugar 101

And then, finally, a direct address to whether we should be living the spike-free life or not :

Use your meter to determine how much carbohydrate you can eat without causing a blood sugar spike. The closer your blood sugar stays to 85 mg/dl at all times, the better off you are. Remember that the lower your post-meal blood sugar, the lower your risk for heart attack and other diabetic complications.--Blood Sugar 101.


I took my fasting this morning as well . . . 91.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #27
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Took my fasting this a.m. too! 99. That's after a DD and I hadn't eaten after 6 p.m. last night, if that makes a difference. I tested it around 10 a.m.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:00 AM   #28
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Interesting stuff here.

I had some broth with egg white around 10:30, bg before that was 85. 15 minute reading 83.

Then had lunch, done at 11:45. (cabbage, tuna, 1 tbsp soy sauce and 1/4 cup of beanless chili tossed in for some extra protein). 15 minute reading 107. And I may have licked my finger after making the pbj for my dd. LOL

So looking as expected for a dd with under 10 g carb total so far.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #29
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Ok, I had a really good DD today. Just under 400 calories, and 15g carbs. I had one reading at 107, but otherwise the rest were under 100. So at least I know it's under control with protein/fat and veggies.

I can't decide if it would be wiser to test the carbs now, or to stay low/moderate carb (30-50g) of mostly veggie carbs for a few weeks and then test them once I am at maintenance level.

Any thoughts on that?
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:19 PM   #30
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Well, if you don't post any results "for a few weeks", I will die of curiosity!!!

If you wait to test carbs, and then find out you can't really tolerate them, would you be more disappointed than if you found out sooner?
For myself, I think I'd rather find out now, so that the wait would be worth it...or so that I'd just get used to the idea that I wouldn't be able to re-introduce them.

Or are you asking in terms of how it might affect your weight loss?
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