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Old 01-27-2012, 06:40 AM   #31
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PJ, I came to the same conclusion last night. I'm testing them out today. Better to find out sooner rather than later. If I CAN handle them, it would be a shame to waste all that time being able to eat a wider variety of food. If I can't, well, then I can deal with it, and move on without wondering.

So breakfast was 2 scrambled eggs and 1/2 a bagel thin. Only 10g carbs, but I NEVER eat wheat products with breakfast, so thought I'd start out slow. If that goes ok, maybe I'll live dangerous and add jelly next time. LOL

Fasting this am was 82. Woot!

I'll update my numbers when I have the full 2 hours (I'm doing every 15 minutes).
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:49 AM   #32
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I have found no rhyme or reason in my FBG. I 'm pre-diabetic, and usually see FBG readings in the 110-115 range. Sometimes on JUDDD I've had 90s and this morning an 85 (woot!). Then last week after a DD I had a 125! *sigh*

I'm seriously considering asking my doc to prescribe Metformin. I have terrible gastic distress (I have to take an Imodium with my Metformin), but maybe the formulations they've developed since I took it 11 years ago are a little easier to take.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:18 AM   #33
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I have found no rhyme or reason in my FBG. I 'm pre-diabetic, and usually see FBG readings in the 110-115 range. Sometimes on JUDDD I've had 90s and this morning an 85 (woot!). Then last week after a DD I had a 125! *sigh*

I'm seriously considering asking my doc to prescribe Metformin. I have terrible gastic distress (I have to take an Imodium with my Metformin), but maybe the formulations they've developed since I took it 11 years ago are a little easier to take.
My FBG seems to average in the 90s. I take Met, a generic form, and I just wonder how much higher it would be if I was not on the medication. Don't think I wanna know, lol. It does cause some gastric probs now and then. I know there is an extended release formulation now, but don't know if it's better on the GI stuff or not.
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #34
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Ok, here's some results from today:

Finished breakfast at 8:05--2 eggs cooked in olive oil, 1/2 bagel thin with butter (10g carbs)
8:22 94
8:35 94
8:50 94
9:05 98 (1 hour)
9:20 97
9:45 84
10:05 93 (2 hour)

Then at 11:00 I had coffee with some mocha coffee mate creamer--tested 1/2 hour later at got 119. At noon, it was 91.

Lunch was 1/2 grilled ham and cheese with mayo, salad (lettuce, broc, caulif, cashew, ranch dressing), and 3 apple slices, with 1 tbsp coconut bark for dessert. Finished at 12:55. (30g carb)

1:10 116
1:25 129
1:40 116
1:55 112 (1 hour)
2:25 101
2:55

Lunch was identical to the meal that gave me the 140 reading at 1 hour, except I subbed apples instead of grapes.

Last edited by mykidsteacher; 01-27-2012 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:16 PM   #35
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Interesting!
See how you peaked at 30 minutes?
That makes me wonder if the grapes made you go even higher than 140!
Grapes are eeeeeeeeeevvil!!!

Obviously that breakfast was really great for stable BG!

How are your fingertips looking?!
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #36
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Ok, that last reading was 106. (apparently you can only edit for a short time after posting). So that meal was a good one for me. It does appear that grapes are a no-go. That's ok. I like apples better really. I know I can't do bananas too. I am guessing berries would probably be ok for me too.

My fingers are begging for mercy. LOL Since it appears I peak at 30 minutes, I think I can get away with 30 min, 1 hr and 2 hr for future meals that might concern me. I see no reason to test after a meal with no grains/sugar/starch.

I have def noticed I am hungrier after having some grain carbs than on days I don't have them though. Getting ready to have some egg salad for a snack. And I think I'll keep supper pretty low (maybe half a sweet potato) so I don't have a tough DD tomorrow.

Thanks for working through this with me. I really don't think I'll ever be able to do JUDDD with just eating whatever strikes my fancy on UD's (within calorie limits). But maybe over time my IR will lesson and I'll be able to do more. I would have thought nearly 6 mos without grains/sugar/starchy veggies would have accomplished that already, but apparently not.

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Old 01-27-2012, 09:42 PM   #37
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Well, supper didn't go so well.

I had a sausage/hamburger (we mix it half and half--the beef is grass-fed, the sausage Jimmy Dean, lol), with colby jack cheese; stir fry veggies; 1/2 a sweet potato with butter; and an almond flour pumpkin muffin.

It was movie night, so I missed the 30 minute and 1 hr readings. But at 1 hr 45 min, it was 145. Blah. Half an hour later it was 119. So if I'd only done a 2 hr, I would have assumed I was fine. No telling how high it actually went.

I'm sure it was the sweet potato. The only sugar in the muffin was 3 Tbsp honey in the whole batch (12 muffin yield). Maybe it was the 2 together.

Glad tomorrow is a DD.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:02 AM   #38
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I'm not monitoring bs. But I am reintroducing 'white' carbs on UD one at a time (one kind a day) and watching my reaction for 24 hours: do I feel a spike and/or drop? do I find myself inappropriately hungry when I know I am full? am I absolutely starving the next day?

So far I have welcomed back my old friends potatoes and brown rice, ezekial sprouted grains bread and I are again BFF. But white rice and several other kinds of bread are on my: avoid and try again in a few months list.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:04 AM   #39
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Thanks for the thoughts Jayne.

I think the bigger issue for me was how I felt last night. After 2 pieces of bread and the sweet potato, I was super bloated and gassy. And this morning, my hands hurt again (which had been pretty much gone with the elimination of grains and white stuff).

I agree that I don't think a spike of 140 every now and then is going to do irreparable harm. But I do think it is an indicator that I am still IR and grains/sugars/potatoes are not something I should just indulge in willy nilly.

And that's what I did the experiment to find out. I'll stay the course and test things out again at some point in the future.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:10 AM   #40
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Are you sure the issue wouldn't have been the honey? Or that honey was a big contributor?

Even though there was only 3 Tablespoons in 12 muffins, that is still 3/4 of a teaspoon in a muffin, and if you're sensitive to sugars, I'd think this might be a problem.

Have you looked into the difference between the glycemic index of everything and the actual glycemic load of it? I understand that can make a HUGE difference in what might bother you and what probably won't at all.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:27 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
Probably the most important factor to consider, though, is like Jenny said -- how reliable is the meter? A 140 could perfectly well be the result when your actual b/s is 120. At times I have used two meters and they can be wildly off from each other, but they're usually fairly consistent with themselves.
Even if the meter is reading a bit high or low, one thing to consider is the difference between pre- and post-prandial readings.
When a 30g carb meal results in a high of 140 then down to 83, that's a difference of almost 60 points; but another meal you listed ("2 eggs cooked in olive oil, 1/2 bagel thin with butter [10g carbs]") showed almost no change. Maybe 10-15 points, assuming your starting BG was in the 80s.

MKT--your fingertips are probably crying for mercy, and you may be done with testing for a while, but to truly monitor the effect of a food, have you been checking your BG before you start eating? I don't think I've seen it in your posts.

I would actually assume that your meter is pretty accurate, considering the lowest readings seem to be in the mid-80s, which is perfectly normal.

I'm flipping through my Dr Bernstein book, trying to find what he considers an ideal BG range after a meal (and what he calls "tight control") but I haven't found anything specific yet. I'll post back if I do.

Thank you for sharing all your details! It's so interesting!
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:34 AM   #42
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I mis-stated the muffins--I cut the honey to 2 tbsp for the whole batch. So that would be 1/2 tsp per muffin. It for sure could have been the two items together was just too much.

I also think the meter is pretty consistent. At least for comparing my highs and lows.

PJ, I haven't been checking before eating, except for breakfast, because there's only about 30 minutes between the fasting and when I start eating. I'll do that.

I wasn't really going to even test today, since it's a dd, and they tend to be 10-15g total carbs for the whole day.

I do plan to check again my next UD, keeping to tighter primal guidelines.

How do you handle snacks? Still test 1 and 2 hrs post like for a meal? My snacks tend to be coconut oil bark, a hard-boiled egg, or a palmful of nuts.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #43
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I see...there's probably no need to check before breakfast, then!
I don't really test much anymore...my doc said the only reason to do that is to know how much insulin to take, and I don't take insulin.

I know that high-carb meals have sent my BG up to about 180-200. But my starting BG was probably about 100-120.
I also know that a breakfast with just fat and protein can actually make my BG go down from a morning high (125ish) to a more normal reading (90ish)!

I don't really snack; I try to wait 5 hours between meals.
But I guess you would test the same way...and it would really let you know how a specific food affected you, since you'd probably not be eating it in combination with other foods.

--The muffins probably had a few carbs in them from the almond meal and pumpkin, too, right? But the biggest effect was probably from the sweet potato.

I gotta go to the library and, funnily enough, buy some sweet potatoes for my neighbor!
Everybody have a great day!!!
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:29 AM   #44
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So interesting. I have more to add but am on my phone. But again . . . I wonder if you really need just a little while longer of consistently eating at this slightly higher carb level to get the most accurate readings? The quote I posted above--about low carbers seeing their bs go sky high after the glucose tolerance test--would seem to indicate that a big piece of the puzzle here is that you have been consistently lower carb and this is a big change. In other words, I don't know if we can assume that your IR is just the same as it was before you went primal, just that it might appear that way right now.

Not sure if that makes any sense whatsoever. LOL
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
So interesting. I have more to add but am on my phone. But again . . . I wonder if you really need just a little while longer of consistently eating at this slightly higher carb level to get the most accurate readings? The quote I posted above--about low carbers seeing their bs go sky high after the glucose tolerance test--would seem to indicate that a big piece of the puzzle here is that you have been consistently lower carb and this is a big change. In other words, I don't know if we can assume that your IR is just the same as it was before you went primal, just that it might appear that way right now.

Not sure if that makes any sense whatsoever. LOL
I know what you mean Temple, and I wonder the same thing. Is there such a thing as making yourself extra sensitive to carbs by avoiding them for x amount of time? Can you make yourself less sensitive with some exposure to them? Or does it work nothing like that at all?

What about in my case where I seem to be doing better than I was post-prandial lately since I lost this extra weight (and the Metformin, is that a big part of this, and has it been all along - would my #s have been higher without it all along?) Or is it because I've gone slightly lowER - moderate carb since the holidays. Etc. etc.

Interesting stuff! Keep going, guys.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:56 AM   #46
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Interesting thought Temple, and to me it seems like it could be likely.

I haven't been vlc, but more what I would consider moderate 50-70g. I eat lots of veggie carbs, just not grain/sugar/potato carbs. But I can see that the effect on blood glucose would certainly be different with those different types of carbs.

Maybe adding them in slowly, and letting my body adjust would be best. And not doing 2 carby things in one meal, so I can better gauge the effect of something new.

Doing well today, not extra hungry or anything.

Sophie, losing the weight can certainly make for lower readings. As can modifying the carb intake. Or even just the kind of carbs--from sugar/junky to more veggie based. No idea about the Met though-I'm out of my league when it comes to meds and how they affect this.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:39 PM   #47
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It is fascinating stuff for sure! I can definitey say that, for myself, a meal with 40-50 carbs induces a higherpost-prandial reading than it did back when I wasn't tracking carbs at all. I've been under 120 carbs a day for months and under 50 mostly for the past two months. When I have my "cheat meal" the reading will sometimes go over 140 at the one hour mark.

Mkt--I'd be interested to see how isolating the grain carbs from tuber carbs pans out and it seems that many do react to them differently.

This post at Hyperlipid (nothing sold there ) is fascinating and talks about fasting blood sugars for low-ish but not necessarily vlc folks and addresses that carb up before the oral glucose test thing I mentioned earlier. So far in my searches I see mostly anecdotal stuff about being made temporarily more carb sensitive but there seems to be something to it. Even if you are eating in the higher range of low carb, it stands to reason that a Moon Pie might throw you for a loop. And maybe the body isn't distinguishing sweet potatoes from moon pies as much as we'd hope. LOL Who knows?

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

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Old 01-28-2012, 07:55 PM   #48
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Here's some numbers for today.

FBG--87

Breakfast 9:15 1 egg, black decaf
10:45 85

Lunch--Cabbage/shrimp/broth/philly cooking cream--finished 12:45
Pre-88
2:15 102

Snack--3 macadamia nuts, hardboiled egg
pre-74
Didn't test after

Supper - Chicken breast; veggies. 8:00
Forgot to take before
8:25 117
9:11 92
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:54 PM   #49
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Well, today has been interesting so far.

Breakfast was the same as 2 days ago (2 eggs, 1/2 bagel thin, butter), BUT I added 1/2 tsp of homemade grape jelly to the bagel thin. Check this out:

fbg--89
Finished eating at 7:45 (getting ready for church so couldn't do the 15 min readings)
8:30--134
9:00--100

So the jelly made a HUGE difference in the spike. It was so stable with just the eggs and the bagel thin.

Then lunch--grass fed hamburger patty, 15 french fries (1 serving), salad with lettuce, broc, caul, 1 oz nuts and ranch dressing. Finished at 1:50
Pre--74
2:06--103
2:20--90
2:35--104
2:50--97 (1 hr)
3:27--108
3:50--97 (2 hr)

So the potatoes really had no effect. I was also a little concerned about the ketchup (sugar) but it didn't really do much either.

So maybe it was the honey that caused the spike the other night.
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
1/2 tsp of homemade grape jelly
WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT GRAPES, YOUNG LADY?!!!
and grape jelly is just concentrated evil


I wonder if the fat content of your lunch, which was probably higher than breakfast, made a difference in preventing a BG spike?

I've heard so much about how carbs can be damaging but carbs+fat is worse;
OTOH, I've read that it's better to eat your carbs with lots of fat b/c it will slow down digestion and therefore the blood sugar reaction.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #51
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WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT GRAPES, YOUNG LADY?!!!
and grape jelly is just concentrated evil


I wonder if the fat content of your lunch, which was probably higher than breakfast, made a difference in preventing a BG spike?

I've heard so much about how carbs can be damaging but carbs+fat is worse;
OTOH, I've read that it's better to eat your carbs with lots of fat b/c it will slow down digestion and therefore the blood sugar reaction.
I didn't even make that connection! I was just thinking about the sugar. Doh! I wonder if strawberry would have done the same thing? Or if I had one of those All Fruit brands?

I'm not wanting to go all out on carbs. I really just want to know how different foods affect me so I can put them on a "once in a while" list, or a "not ever" list.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #52
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I would still think that 1/2 tsp of ANYthing would be pretty insignificant.
Even pure sugar is only 4 carbs per teaspoon,
and jelly is about the same.

How did an extra 2g carbs raise your BG 40 more points?!!!
That doesn't make any sense!!!
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:47 PM   #53
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No kidding. I was pretty shocked. But everything else was the same.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:59 AM   #54
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Wow! That does seem crazy. Even concentrated evil at that amount should have very little effect. Curious, indeed!

I had my first few bites of white bread in ages today (the horror) and felt sure that my BS was sky rocketing. Uh, 94. I think it might be time for me to take a short break from the crazy train I am on. LOL
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:10 PM   #55
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Haven't been checking much today. It's a DD, so not much I'm eating will affect much.

Fasting 74

Breakfast --1 egg and black decaf
Didn't measure. I know this one is ok.

l--cabbage, chicken, philly cooking cream, 1/2 cup broth. Finished at 12:50
1:20 124
2:07 107
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:41 PM   #56
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Found this on the site below (Clackley posted a link earlier). Kind of goes along with what some of us were wondering about "carb tolerance":

....if you normally eat low-carb (less than 75g/d), your post-meal readings on the third day following the simple carbohydrate (rice or potato) challenge will be abnormally high. I explained why this occurs in the last article, but in short when you are adapted to burning fat your tolerance for carbohydrates declines.

How to prevent diabetes and heart disease for $16
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:37 AM   #57
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Oh, I give up.

Took my fasting reading this morning. It was 67. Thought maybe my hands weren't completely dry from washing them, so tried again after a couple minutes. Used a different finger. 99. So of course, then I was curious. So tried again immediately with a third finger 87.

What the heck?! Now I don't know if I can trust a single reading since I started this. Half a box of test strips wasted too (fortunately, they were free due to the amazing customer service at Relion--I have an older monitor that wouldn't work with the new non-coded strips, so they sent me a box of strips plus a code strip that would turn off the coding on my monitor).

I'll call them in a bit and ask about this, but I can't afford a new monitor right now. So, I think I'm just going to go back to strict paleo, and be done with it.

Sopie--thanks for the info. I'll read the link in a bit. I suppose it would make sense that if you are in fat-burning mode, carbs would be somewhat foreign and your body would need some time to be able to deal with them.

Last edited by mykidsteacher; 01-31-2012 at 06:38 AM..
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:37 AM   #58
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I have heard that different readings from different fingers at the same time is not unusual.
Also, as inaccurate as it seems, there's not *that* much difference between an 87 and 99, especially if they are from different sites. Or so I've been told.

I think most meters read all the way up to 600.
So fluctuations of 10-15 points are not that drastic, I suppose.

Assuming the 67 may have been from a little water on your skin, I think you can still trust your meter.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:47 AM   #59
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Ok, thanks for talking me down from the ledge.

I plan to have apple pie after lunch today. That should be a pretty good test.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:50 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by mykidsteacher View Post
Ok, thanks for talking me down from the ledge.

I plan to have apple pie after lunch today. That should be a pretty good test.
Enjoy the pie. Looking forward to your results!
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