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Old 01-25-2012, 09:41 AM   #61
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 89
Gallery: TallToriV
Stats: 192/179/145 ~ 5'10"
WOE: JUDD with low-mod carbs
Start Date: 1/17/12
Oh, Nancy, I'm so sorry! :-( RIP sweet kitty.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:57 AM   #62
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Maintain Lane
Posts: 5,189
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Stats: 170+/135-138/145 5'6 39y pcos/IR/metformin
WOE: WL=LC then JUDDD/IF; Maintenance=IF/75%+ "healthy"
Start Date: LC 6/11; JUDDD 10/11; Maintenance 11/11
Nancy, so sorry for your loss.

And thank you for all the information. It makes sense - we are burning fat on JUDDD - the body is using it as fuel, hence the ketones expelled. We appreciate your taking the time to give us this info!
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #63
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,153
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Stats: 144/134/130-5'5"
WOE: Low/Mod Carb, JUDDD (JUDDD, 10/25/11 at 141.5)
Start Date: March, 2006
Nancy, so sorry about your dear kitty.

I notice on DDs that I am doing VLC because of eating so little. My percentage might be equal between protein, fat and carbs, but the number of net carbs is very low.

I borrowed the JUDDD book from the library, so I didn't have the source to go to, but was almost positive that I read that Dr. J considered JUDDD a ketogenic WOE.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:37 PM   #64
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Stats: obese/slimmer
Nancy, I am just sick to hear you have lost your kitty. Our dear and beloved cat is 14 years old this year, and we hope we have many more years with her, but know that this is now an age where we can't count on her continued good health so much. Just wanted to pass on my condolences to you. Losing our pets is always a heartbreak. I'm so sorry.

- - -

As to this interesting discussion, I think you have zeroed in a lot on some of the confusion, in how we think of *ketosis* as it references *being IN ketosis* and of being *on a ketogenic diet*.

I also think a lot of the confusion stems from the erroneous idea that we can only burn from one fuel source at a time, that we burn only carbohydrate OR only fat at any given time.. that we will be burning carbohydrate until we run completely out, and then, and only then, do we turn to burning fat at all. So some folks seem to believe that the body completely shuts off one fuel source when it turns to the other. OR that the body has to completely run out of carbohydrate before it can burn any fat.

The truth is that we burn from both fuel sources simultaneously, often in the range of about half of each as we go about our days, and we draw from both of these fuel sources particularly well when the food we have consumed isn't enough to fuel us through until our next feeding. (Hence the concept of dieting.)

As our exercise level increases, it's found that the ratio of fat utilization to carb utilization alters, with the lower intensity exercise burning more fat than exercising at high intensity, where the body increases the percentage of carbohydrate to fat, enriching the fuel, so to speak, lfor that added burst of eneregy to support the intensity level. But there is another good point to know here, and it's that as your exercise period extends beyond the 15/20 minute length and keeps going, the body turns up the amount of fat it draws upon too, so adds more of that to the carb fuel it is burning.

There is an old saying that *Fat burns in the flame of Carbohydrate*. Carbohydrates are metabolic primers. They are needed to completely burn fat. Carbohydrate metabolism provides a compound called oxaloacetate, which must combine with Acetyl Coenzyme A in the Krebs cycle to fully break down fat. Carbohydrate, itself, burns cleanly. In fact the name "carbo- hydrate" basically means "carbon (dioxide) and water," which is what plants make carbs out of, and which is all the waste product one is left with when one's body uses them as fuel.

In the presence of sufficient carbohydrate, the fat metabolism is pretty complete, and few or no ketone bodies are left to be detected. I can certainly understand doing JUDDD and not showing ketones on a DD, but it would be wrong to believe that shows somebody didn't hold their calories low enough on that DD. When one is eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down. But if the diet is sufficiently low on carbohydrates, it could result in an incomplete combustion of fat, which results in ketone bodies remaining, the leftovers of incompletely burned fat, and this waste has to be expelled in our urine and breath. So in the face of insufficient carbohydrate to combine with the fat being burned, ketones can be detected.

So this brings us back to whether a person's diet contains sufficient carbs to combine with the burning of fat, to give a pretty complete burn, and to result in little inefficient fat burn, and few ketone bodies being flushed. But that doesn't really have anything to do with JUDDD or our JUDDD up/down cycle.

In general, if your diet is higher carb, you can't deplete your carbohydrate/glucogen stores sufficiently to go into a state of actual ketosis in the single day of fasting JUDDD calls for. Most of us who started out on Atkins would have liked for it to have happened that fast!!!, but, alas, it usually takes at least three days to deplete our glucogen stores, and for many of us, it takes several days longer than that.

So, if your diet choice is low carb you would certainly be able to expect your body to remain in ketosis, regardless of how you cycled your calories. That would be up to your diet, your low carbohydrate consumption.. but JUDDD wouldn't have anything to do with that.

And if you eat up to a very low moderate carb level, you may be able to store very little glucogen and be able to deplete it every other day and enter ketosis every other day. So your diet might make you cycle in and out of ketosis, if your carbohydrate intake isn't high enough to keep you out of ketosis. But again, JUDDD has nothing to do with that. It's dependent upon the carb level you eat at.

For those who don't want to be in ketosis (or care), our solid mid-range and higher carb level is sufficent to prevent glucogen depletion, even during the hours of our DD fast, so no entering into a state of ketosis for these dieters. But, once again, it isn't JUDDD preventing their decent into a state of ketosis. It's just the diet they choose to eat, that includes a higher carb level than one that allows for ketosis.

JUDDD may or may not be a ketogenic diet. Or maybe more accurately we should say, a dieter may or may not reach ketosis through JUDDD. It can be done that way, or not. So whether you choose to follow a ketogenic diet plan, or a NON-ketogenic diet plan, JUDDD doesn't care, nor require adherence to either, and you can be pretty confident that either way, you'll be able to lose the weight you are hoping to see gone! Yay! Good luck to us all in our weight loss and our maintenance. Rock on, JUDDD BUDDDs!
Best wishes, Pat
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:48 PM   #65
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Location: Maryland
Posts: 85
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Stats: 228/189/155 (5'7")
WOE: Mod Carb / JUDDD
Start Date: 12/26/2011
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post

I have been doing JUDDD for just over 3 years, and I lost 100 lbs in two years with 400 cal. DDs and 1400 cal. UDs. I actually checked with Dr. J (via e-mail) about the UD calorie level when I began because the reason I did JUDDD was that age and medical issues force me to severely restrict calories. Dr. J told me that the DD number was critical, and the UD number was totally arbitrary, and that I could do whatever level I was comfortable with.

Personally, after a 400 cal. DD, 1400 cal seemed like a feast. I eat low carb consistently because I'm extremely carb sensitive, but I eat only moderate fat, so these calorie levels were very do-able for me. I lost steadily with this.

I feel so inspired.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #66
Way too much time on my hands!
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Stats: obese/slimmer
You're going to do great, Sedona! JUDDD is a fun plan as well as one that works really well for weight loss, so we're always telling each other to look forward to having to buy new smaller sizes shortly.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:39 AM   #67
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Asheville, NC / Marietta, Ga
Posts: 3,864
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Stats: 175/111.8/124 - 5'4, 61yo
WOE: JUDDD/PHD, LC now that my BG is getting weird
Start Date: JUDDD 1/1/12 + LCHF 12/1/13 (controlling diabetes)
Thank you, everyone. Pat, Tatyana was somewhere between 17 and 19 (She was an adult when I adopted her) and was in renal failure controlled by diet. I expected a gradual decline but I got a collapse (she always did enjoy surprising me). I know I will get over the feeling of sadness and get used to the empty place in my life. But I am a bit unhappy right now. Fortunately, I have a lot of happy memories to help me.

Does anyone have advice on how to help my young cat through this loss? Poor baby, she is weirded out.

End of thread-jack. Pat, thank you for clarifying what is happening. I remember several of the definitions of ketosis included exercise as a cause.
- Nancy
GOAL 10/3/12
Still at goal 2/6/13
STILL below goal 2/15/14

I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

Last edited by gotsomeold; 01-26-2012 at 02:41 AM..
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