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-   -   Question about induction (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/754076-question-about-induction.html)

mykidsteacher 01-18-2012 10:19 AM

Question about induction
 
I see the 2 week induction referred to, and about the only difference I can see in this, vs what happens in week 3, is that Dr. J recommends using protein shakes/bars/prepared foods to help you keep track of calories.

If you are using 'real' foods, is there anything that happens when you finish 2 weeks, or do you just continue as usual?

gotsomeold 01-18-2012 10:26 AM

Dr J recommended shakes as a way to ensure precision in DD calories. I suspect he did not expect swarms of LC knowledgeable, ketotsis in place, DDs are np converts - lol. Internal evidence in the book implies he expected most of his readers to be used to the low-cal, low-fat, high-carb type of dieting.

You drink the shakes if you need help starting DDs. Or you eat food. Or you fast. Just don't exceed DD calories and all will be well.

Knittering 01-18-2012 10:32 AM

I don't think any of us here did the shake-and-bar thing. I don't consider that stuff real food, personally, and a kitchen scale + calorie counting website made tracking easy enough. :)

KeirasMom 01-18-2012 10:34 AM

The website gives options for increasing your DD calories and still remaining in weight loss mode. I suspect you could increase after the 2 week induction, though I'm keeping DDs as low as I can. Other than that, I see no difference.

Redeemed 01-18-2012 10:49 AM

My understanding is that the 2 week induction with DD's of 500 calories or lower activates the Sirt1 gene or the "skinny gene". After the 2 weeks, a person can go higher on DD's. The shakes and bars were just to ensure a person didn't go over the 500 calorie mark during induction.

mykidsteacher 01-18-2012 10:50 AM

No, I don't need to increase. I'm fine with under 500. Just curious if I was missing something, or if that is the only difference.

MintQ8 01-18-2012 11:57 AM

You can also start mixing in MD - or FD - the idea with the 2 weeks - is, I think to KISS! 500 DD and your Maintenance UD - no deviation - get into the pattern - switch on the SIRT gene.

I think the 500 just gives everyone an easy number to aim for! Apart from on hols (when I ate more) and yesterday (when I drank champagne) I haven't gone as high as that number!

TallToriV 01-18-2012 12:08 PM

Do shakes/bars make anyone else MORE hungry? I could fast more easily then I could live on a couple of shakes a day.

Bonnie 01-18-2012 12:58 PM

The bars and shakes have never bothered me. I don't use them every day but I don't stall or get the hungries when I do. I keep a bar in my purse at all times for emergencies.

I thought about using them at first but I'm used to not eating when I'm not hungry and didn't need to. My DDs are easier than my UDs.

adillenal 01-18-2012 01:07 PM

I have the book and he states "that for the first two weeks you will be getting your 500 down day calories specifically from meal-replacement shakes such as ......" No mention of bars. "In fact, if you don't use the shakes in place of regular food on your first two weeks of down days, you probably will not be successful." And he continues with the reasons for this. This quote is from the 2008 edition of The Alternate Day Diet.
I am not quoting this for arguments sake but to point out exactly what the author said about shakes.

mykidsteacher 01-18-2012 01:43 PM

Thanks Adi, I appreciate the quote straight from the author.

But if it's required to do it right, then I will have to do it wrong. LOL Because I won't drink them.

But it is good to know what the plan is, so if you deviate from it, you are doing it thoughtfully, and can be aware that it may not work as intended because you are deviating.

gotsomeold 01-18-2012 01:45 PM

Yeah, but Dr J also says eating fat causes blood sugar spikes, fat blunts the brain's satiety signals causing us to over eat it, eating fat causes the body to become hungry again quickly, and implies fat is a high glycemic food.

I'm glad I found this forum before I read the book. Had I read it first, I would have assumed everything in it was questionable and tossed it. Because I read the forum, I was willing to cut him some slack - nutrition is not his true field and he put a lot of time and energy into studying calorie restriction.

Kissa 01-18-2012 01:59 PM

Never did anything but real food. Worked for me from day 1 in. Still aim at around 500 while maintaining.

Redeemed 01-18-2012 02:10 PM

I do not like canned shakes. I did not do them. Twice when I restarted JUDDD, I lost 10-11 pounds during induction eating real food, but keeping to 500 calories on DD's.

SoHappy 01-18-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykidsteacher (Post 15340578)
Thanks Adi, I appreciate the quote straight from the author.

But if it's required to do it right, then I will have to do it wrong. LOL Because I won't drink them.

But it is good to know what the plan is, so if you deviate from it, you are doing it thoughtfully, and can be aware that it may not work as intended because you are deviating.

Don't worry about it. LOL Most of us *did it wrong*... very few of us used nothing but shakes in our first couple of weeks, very few of us even use commercial shakes at all, and very few of us even make shakes from scatch. LOL (Well, unless we're talking a chocolate ice cream shake for dessert.. Ha!)

Just as Dr. Atkins wouldn't recognize how so many are doing his plan, and would quickly notice that almost none proceed much into his 2nd phase of his 4 phase plan, Dr. Johnson would immediately notice that most folks here don't do shakes, and that many here weren't able to start out at 500 calories of fewer, and yet that almost all here DO experience the weight loss and increased wellness of the alternate fast way of eating.

Truthfully, you know.. if you are going to invent a diet plan so you can put your name on it, and write a book to sell, you have to have some sort of *plan* to lay out for folks. There's not much to sell of you just tell them to eat very little every other day and let it go at that. :laugh: So you have to *design* something, and the idea of saying drink shakes for two weeks was something that could be made into an *induction* period.

The research is already years old, new research is coming out all the time, the SIRT1 gene is now known to be only one of many involved, and it's not as cut and dried as it was thought to be just a few years ago.

And yet, the age old practice of fasting for weight loss and health that is as old as the hills still confers success in both aspects for people. Hence, we practice *JUDDD* and it works for us.

But don't worry about whether to drink shakes or not. Just try to keep those DD calories low, 500 or lower if possible, a bit more if you can't make it that low to begin with, and don't go overboard on your UDs, give your body two or three weeks to stabilize if you've come off of some other diet plan to this one, and then expect success.

Karen925 01-18-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knittering (Post 15340009)
a kitchen scale + calorie counting website made tracking easy enough. :)

In fact, it is so easy and helpful, it has become a pleasant habit for me.

fleur 01-18-2012 03:31 PM

I'm on my first day. I had one shake that I made myself: 3/4 scoop whey protein isolate
2 c unsweetened almond milk
2 T raw cacao powder
stevia
crushed ice
I wouldn't drink packaged shakes and wouldn't want to do the ones I make exclusively. I'm planning on doing mostly real food

Mommie22boys 01-18-2012 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintQ8 (Post 15340276)
You can also start mixing in MD - or FD - the idea with the 2 weeks - is, I think to KISS! 500 DD and your Maintenance UD - no deviation - get into the pattern - switch on the SIRT gene.

I think the 500 just gives everyone an easy number to aim for! Apart from on hols (when I ate more) and yesterday (when I drank champagne) I haven't gone as high as that number!

Just to clarify, MDs and FDs are things that us JUDDD BUDDDs have created here. These are not things that Dr. J has in his book. (Ok, technically, Dr. J does talk about eating 50-60% of your calories on DDs, but only AFTER we reach maintenance, but that's not typically how we use them here.)

MDs (medium days) are used by some to change up their regular rotation when they need a certain day to be either a DD or an UD. Like, if I had a special party to go to on Saturday, but that day is going to be a DD, I would insert a MD so that Saturday would turn into the needed UD. OR, some use a MD every week in order to have the same days each week be DDs or UDs...like if you want every Friday night to be an UD, for example. But, my strong suggestion is to stick to the regular UD/DD rotation for the first 2 weeks to give the plan time to start working it's magic.

FDs (free days) are used by some once they are in maintenance so that they can stop losing weight (or not have to count calories everyday, or are experimenting in order to see if they can maintain their weight by using them...) many reasons, I'm sure. I'm not maintenance, so I'm not officially familiar with these. Lol!!:hyst:

Just wanted to be clear, so that any new BUDDDs didn't think that MDs and FDs were part of the *plan*. :)

KeirasMom 01-18-2012 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mommie22boys (Post 15341015)
Just to clarify, MDs and FDs are things that us JUDDD BUDDDs have created here. These are not things that Dr. J has in his book. (Ok, technically, Dr. J does talk about eating 50-60% of your calories on DDs, but only AFTER we reach maintenance, but that's not typically how we use them here.)

MDs (medium days) are used by some to change up their regular rotation when they need a certain day to be either a DD or an UD. Like, if I had a special party to go to on Saturday, but that day is going to be a DD, I would insert a MD so that Saturday would turn into the needed UD. OR, some use a MD every week in order to have the same days each week be DDs or UDs...like if you want every Friday night to be an UD, for example. But, my strong suggestion is to stick to the regular UD/DD rotation for the first 2 weeks to give the plan time to start working it's magic.

FDs (free days) are used by some once they are in maintenance so that they can stop losing weight (or not have to count calories everyday, or are experimenting in order to see if they can maintain their weight by using them...) many reasons, I'm sure. I'm not maintenance, so I'm not officially familiar with these. Lol!!:hyst:

Just wanted to be clear, so that any new BUDDDs didn't think that MDs and FDs were part of the *plan*. :)

:goodpost:

belfrybat 01-18-2012 04:19 PM

I do use a shake (or two) a day along with a CarbMaster yogurt because it helps me keep my protein up without adding a bunch of extra calories. But I pretty much did a shake a day anyway, just with a couple of Tbs. of cream in it. I only do bars on the up days as the ones I have are too high calorie to use on DDs.

2BoysMom 01-18-2012 05:05 PM

I've always kind of liked the Pure Protein Strawberry shakes - with 35 grams of protein, so I still use them a few days a week on DD's - mostly when I am in a hurry, since they are easy to grab and go. But I didn't start using them when I started JUDDD - they are something I have used for a while that happen to fit in well as needed.

Most of the time it is good old regular food just counted (and I am such a rebel, I actually allow myself up to 600 calories if I need it!) and I am very happy with how I am losing! Delighted actually!!

sophiethecat 01-18-2012 05:17 PM

Another one who just ate regular food on JUDDD induction, but....

I started liking Pure Protein Chocolate Deluxe bars on LC and continued to use them some on JUDDD, and still do sometimes, like when I'm on the go.

They are about 200 calories and I find them quite filling. They saved my butt more than once in "my early days" of JUDDD, at the end of a DD. I could eat one or at least half of one and not mess up my calories too bad, and be satisfied enough to sleep.


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