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mrsdewinter 01-05-2012 03:57 AM

2 consecutive DDs?
 
Hi everyone,

after spending 5 beautiful days at the beach over nye I`m back to juddd...unfortunately I did not stick to JUDD during these 5 days (it was worth it though).

Doing a DD today and thinking about doing one tomorrow as well - I was just wondering if that would somehow hinder my weight loss/slow down my metabolism though. Any ideas?

Haven`t weighed myself as I surely will get frustrated - which is never good and usually leads onto 2 week pig outs! :sick:

SlowSure 01-05-2012 04:08 AM

I think the general consensus is that one should avoid consecutive DDs because calorie restriction/fasting for 48hrs or more might trigger the metabolism into conservation mode (it would 'hang on' to fat stores and be parsimonious in using them up).

oneoftwo 01-05-2012 04:51 AM

I agree, I think just getting back to a usual UD/DD rotation you will be back to your pre beach weight quickly

Majella 01-05-2012 05:49 AM

Thats good to know, I often wondered the same :) I've also had 2 weeks of eating whatever I wanted whenever I wanted it! but it was fun

handbells 01-05-2012 05:51 AM

Thirding what has already been said, but wanted to add...you may surprise yourself when you weigh. I was extremely lax during Christmas and New Year's...no rotation at all! Was very scared to weigh myself but finally did yesterday and was very pleasantly surprised. Yes, there was a gain, but no where near what I thought it would be!

Glad you had a good vacation!

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 06:04 AM

I am not a scientist (nor do I play one on TV) but from all of my reading up on nutrition and exercise, my conclusion is that starvation mode is not a thing. There are plenty of fasts that last longer than 1 day, and (overweight) people have done low cal plans like Medifast or protein sparing modified fasts for long periods of time.

I am not saying that you should fast 2 days in a row, and I'm too much of a JUDDD newbie to even offer advice (though I have been intermittent fasting for a year), but I HAVE read a lot about starvation mode so I can give you some links and let you draw your own conclusions:

Conditioning Research: Intermittent Fasting and "Starvation Mode"
"The truth is a large body of scientific research shows you can eat very low calories for extended periods of time with no change in your metabolism and, no decrease in muscle mass, as long as you do some form of resistance training"

Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked (Major Update Nov 4th) | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".

Truth

Efficient adaptation to famine was important for survival during rough times in our evolution. Lowering metabolic rate during starvation allowed us to live longer, increasing the possibility that we might come across something to eat. Starvation literally means starvation. It doesn't mean skipping a meal not eating for 24 hours. Or not eating for three days even. The belief that meal skipping or short-term fasting causes "starvation mode" is so completely ridiculous and absurd that it makes me want to jump out the window.

Looking at the numerous studies I've read, the earliest evidence for lowered metabolic rate in response to fasting occurred after 60 hours (-8% in resting metabolic rate). Other studies show metabolic rate is not impacted until 72-96 hours have passed (George Cahill has contributed a lot on this topic).

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

Again, I have choosen extreme examples to show how absurd the myth of "starvation mode" is - especially when you consider that the exact opposite is true in the context of how the term is thrown around.


Weight Loss Myths – Starvation Mode | Dead Simple Diet

(This article also goes on to explain where the Starvation Myth comes from, which was an Ancel Keys experiment. The same guy that started us on this obesity epidemic. )


What people think starvation mode is

It isn’t hammered down, but people think starvation mode kicks in if you consume less than 1200 calories per day. It causes your metabolism to slow to a crawl. Your body stops burning calories, and you stop losing weight, some people even believe you can begin gaining weight if you eat few enough calories (something that violates the laws of physics).
What starvation mode actually is

Starvation mode is what happens when your body runs out of fuel to burn. Your body will feed on 2 things as long as they are available: food you eat and your fat reserves. If these 2 calorie sources are depleted then your body has no choice but to slow down. People become lethargic. They have trouble concentrating, They are laterally running on empty. With no where else to get energy the body will consume muscle and organ tissue to keep going. Body temperature is no longer regulated properly and people can get very cold. Their metabolism does slow to a crawl but that is because there is no more fuel for the fire. I want to hammer this point home. The body doesn’t choose to slow metabolism to conserve energy. Energy is depleted so the body is forced to slow down. This is real starvation and it is probably hell to go through.

piratejenny 01-05-2012 09:32 AM

Wow, :goodpost: Julie!

I think even Dr J says the slow-down mode doesn't occur for about 48 hours.
You avoid that by NEVER doing 2 DDs in a row.
Because, if you eat your last UD meal as dinner, your DD is really closer to 30-36 hours (before you eat an UD breakfast on the following day), so doing a second one will take you well over that 48 hour limit.

On the other hand, I read ("somewhere", sorry) that when they extended the 24-hour eat, 24-hour fast study that they did with mice to a 24-hour eat, 48-hour fast, the life span was increased even more.

However, I think the mice were getting a bit cranky and violent. :laugh:

It may not be entirely unhealthy this time, but if it sets you up to overeat or even think that you can "make up" for overeating whenever you want by doing 2 consecutive DDs, you won't be establishing healthy eating patterns. Or you might quit JUDDD entirely.

I'd say just get back on your regular rotation. Doing one extra DD isn't going to make that much of a difference if you look at it in terms of how many DDs you will have this week or month.

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 09:44 AM

I read somewhere (trying to find the source, it escapes me at the moment) that no matter what you do, each pound of fat will only use up to 30 calories a day. So if you have 20 pounds of fat on you, then 20 X 30 = 600 calories. So if you were to take maintenance - 600 calories, that would work to lose some weight. But if you were to severely restrict your calories and say, reduce it by 1000 calories a day to try to lose weight faster, that would not work... instead you'd burn 600 calories of fat, and 400 of muscle. So depending on how little body fat you have, then fasting 2 consecutive days may be detrimental, but mostly for people who are already lean.

Really wish I could find the original article, bleh.

MLE 01-05-2012 10:57 AM

O.k. so along the same lines, if on my current rotation today is a DD and tomorrow is an UP but Saturday night we've been invited to dinner at a friend's house, should one do consecutive DD's so that Saturday can be an UD, or no. I am still in the first week and I DO NOT want to mess this phase up by experimenting with a Mid-day. Any suggestions?

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 11:08 AM

What I would personally do (if I did not want to do 2 down days), is figure out what my average daily calories are, then spread that over the 3 day period.

Example: Down days are 500 calories per the calculator, and up days are 2000, so you're averaging 1250 cals a day on your regular UP/DD schedule.

But spread out over 3 days = down day 875, down day 875 ,up day 2000? still an average of 1250 cals a day. I'm assuming this would work, I don't see why it wouldn't. It's the same principle of doing a mid day right? Though I guess the mid day would make your down day more down so that might be better too, choices choices.

MintQ8 01-05-2012 11:09 AM

Not sure what others will say - but I say no. I think, and I know you are in your first 2 weeks - so don't want to muck around. However, if I was you - I might stick to my normal rotation - but finish eating early on Friday evening (ie don't eat late) and then don't eat anything but broth during the day on Saturday - and then eat dinner at your friends - as the end of your DD and the start of your UD. Then make Sunday your normal UD (slightly restricted due to cals the night before - but remember you have 500 to take away from the DD) - and Monday your normal DD etc.

Good luck!

sophiethecat 01-05-2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsdewinter (Post 15299006)
Hi everyone,

after spending 5 beautiful days at the beach over nye I`m back to juddd...unfortunately I did not stick to JUDD during these 5 days (it was worth it though).

Doing a DD today and thinking about doing one tomorrow as well - I was just wondering if that would somehow hinder my weight loss/slow down my metabolism though. Any ideas?

Haven`t weighed myself as I surely will get frustrated - which is never good and usually leads onto 2 week pig outs! :sick:

If it were me still in weigh-loss mode, I'd just go back to my normal JUDDD rotation. I know it is tempting to try to "make up" for excessive eating and to try to invoke more weight loss by 2 DD in a row, but I think it startles your body more (and produces the desired amount of body stress - not too little, not too much) by alternating feast and famine, feast and famine, and gives the good JUDDD results.

Fasting for many reasons and in many forms (from skip a meal to skip a month of meals) has been done throughout our history, but for our purposes here of health and weight-loss with "minimal" effort and without being time-consuming, a huge ordeal, burden, and interfering with everyday life - JUDDD and variations of it and other IF seem to work great without having to do prolonged fasting. :) Just my .02 though. :hugs:

SlowSure 01-05-2012 01:27 PM

There is a review of fasting (albeit not systematic nor a meta-analysis): Fasting - the ultimate diet [Obesity Review 2007: pdf of full paper].

The review looks at human studies mostly and addresses the possible differences between data from studies that were conducted on/collected from healthy, 'normal-weight' participants and those derived from complete abstinence studies that were carried out with people who were morbidly or super-morbidly obese. The review also separates out the discussion of long-term and short-term fasting (the latter resembles intermittent more).

SoHappy 01-05-2012 01:37 PM

I think when people refer to *starvation mode* they are probably just referring to a metabolism slowing down. If that is what they are referring to, yes.. that certainly does happen, and it can and does happen in response to very low calorie levels being adhered to for awhile. But just two days isn't enough to trigger it. And it most often pops back up and is more active when calorie intake increases too. Like you're sick and not eating. And then you're well and eating happily again.

But here's the thing.. why not just go back into your normal UD/DD JUDDD rotation? It isn't just the calories we need to focus on but our overall health and nutrition as well, and it just seems like a good idea to feed our bodies some protein and a few other nice macro nutrients with some vitamins, etc. after a single day of fasting.

I'm just thinking that there is probably not a big danger to doing two DDs in a row, and I did an experiment some time ago doing just that to see what the results would be short term. I found that weight loss/maintenance didn't seem affected either way for me. But I do like the idea a whole lot better to not go more than that single DD without feeding my body some nice amount of protein and good food.

Beeb 01-05-2012 01:46 PM

Lots of great advice on here and I totally agree with the majority that 2 DDs in a row may not be a good thing. JUDDD works because of the rotation, not because of an average of "this many or that many" calories a day, everyday. It's the UD and DD that makes the magic of JUDDD work and this soon into this WOE may not be the time to "adjust" things.

I would just do my regular rotation and save most of my DD calories for the evening with my friends so I can enjoy a nice meal instead of just "picking" at my food or being stressed on WHAT to eat that will fit into my DD and that meal. ;)

Just my opinion and nothing more, not what I think you should or should not do. :hugs:

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeb (Post 15300817)
JUDDD works because of the rotation, not because of an average of "this many or that many" calories a day, everyday. It's the UD and DD that makes the magic of JU

I have not read the book, does he mention and prove this in his book? I have done intermittent fasting for a while and while I've seen good health benefits, I've never found anything "magic" about it for weight loss, I was just assuming that if you do lose weight on JUDDD it is through some form of caloric restriction. I guess I'll have to get the book and see what studies he cites. I guess if calories didn't matter you could have a down day of 500 calories and up days of 5000 calories right?

edit: Rereading it I think I sound like I'm being a smartass :) I understand that while calories do ultimately matter (in that you can't have too many in your up days without impact) that the point of JUDDD is the alternate day fasting, and that fasting does have benefits (including hunger suppression), so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm dismissing the value of the UP/DD, it's just that the previous diet I've done was basically DD/DD/DD/UD/DD/DD/DD/UP and I lost weight really well on that too, probably faster than I will on JUDDD, so there are other versions out there.

E.W. 01-05-2012 02:58 PM

Julie thanks for the articles I needed to read them. I may just try a few back to back DDs not so much for added weight loss but to see if that helps my arthritis more than
the standard UD DD rotation.

SoHappy 01-05-2012 03:29 PM

Julie, LOL! I don't think you were being a smartass. :laugh:

There are an amazing number of calorie reduction diet plans and a whole lot of calorie cycling plans and a whole lot of fasting plans... all the way down to just not eating. With some the focus is really on hoped-for weight loss and may well not become a way of life. For others, the focus is on overall long term health, with gradual weight loss being one of the things that happens along the way toward increased health.

I chose this particular plan because I really like the calm balance between the days, the fact that the fasting day is only a day, so that makes half of my days also feasting days, which is a nice way to live life. I also liked very much the fact that the simple alternation between Up and Down Days worked like a piston, pounding smoothly between the two calorie limits, which has seemed to help increase my rate of metabolic burn quite a bit, and I'm sort of thinking I wouldn't have had that benefit if I'd held to quite a few more DDs than I had UDs.

In my past, holding calories down always brought my metabolism down too, and I really was happy to recognize that my weight loss would result both from the reduction in calorie consumption and also with an increase in my metabolism and that I didn't have to *diet* or fast all that much anymore.

I'd looked into the HCG protocol but opted against it just because I was looking for something additional to just weight loss, and I suppose maybe for me I could call it *quality of life* or some such... I just wanted some peace. I didn't want to have to diet anymore. This single day alternating rhythm of JUDDD felt so right to me. But for me, it's just how I live my life, so I wasn't racing toward anything, I am just willing to let the weight loss and maintenance now happen as it happens for the rest of my life.

But you are right about there being a whole lot of various plans for fasting out there.

mrsdewinter 01-05-2012 03:30 PM

great stuff everyone, thanks for your answers!

I think I might just do a med day tomorrow then as I went slightly over my dd cals today and having my granny over on sat & sun which = delicious food everywhere which I will have to eat unless I want to upset her (that for once is a great excuse to step out of line!)

great article hazelsmfr! might try fasting after I reached my GW as I`ve heard about the benefits of fasting for 2-3 days before!

Yam-Yam 01-05-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazelsmrf (Post 15300912)
I have not read the book, does he mention and prove this in his book? I have done intermittent fasting for a while and while I've seen good health benefits, I've never found anything "magic" about it for weight loss, I was just assuming that if you do lose weight on JUDDD it is through some form of caloric restriction. I guess I'll have to get the book and see what studies he cites. I guess if calories didn't matter you could have a down day of 500 calories and up days of 5000 calories right?

edit: Rereading it I think I sound like I'm being a smartass :) I understand that while calories do ultimately matter (in that you can't have too many in your up days without impact) that the point of JUDDD is the alternate day fasting, and that fasting does have benefits (including hunger suppression), so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm dismissing the value of the UP/DD, it's just that the previous diet I've done was basically DD/DD/DD/UD/DD/DD/DD/UP and I lost weight really well on that too, probably faster than I will on JUDDD, so there are other versions out there.


Julie: I just read the book and highly recommend it. You will enjoy all the science behind JUDD.

The "magic" is in the activation of our SIRT1 gene. Studies have proven with certainty that restricting calories every other day activates this gene which produces a protein. This special kind of protein inhibits the body from it's ability to store fat. Thus, the food we eat is used for energy and the excess passes through the kidneys and out instead of being stored. On DDs the body must use stored fat for energy.


SIRT1 is activated more and more as the DD/UD rotation continues and is firmly activated to the max after about one month of doing the rotation. After you have been at it for a while, even if you "fall off the wagon" and eat freely for up to 4 weeks you will probably maintain weight and not gain.

This is because SIRT1 continues to produce the fat busting protein. Longer than that and the effect will dissipate. Interesting, huh?

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yam-Yam (Post 15301121)

This is because SIRT1 continues to produce the fat busting protein. Longer than that and the effect will dissipate. Interesting, huh?

It IS interesting, but I just wonder how he proves that this SIRT1 does not work if you fast 2 days, or every once a while you drop a day etc etc. I understand that alternate day fasting WORKS but I just really love knowing what exactly goes on in the body, and since we're always learning MORE about our bodies I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that A or B is always true and C is never true. I will order the book!


Quote:

Originally Posted by SoHappy (Post 15301101)
Julie, LOL! I don't think you were being a smartass. :laugh:

I chose this particular plan because I really like the calm balance between the days, the fact that the fasting day is only a day, so that makes half of my days also feasting days, which is a nice way to live life.

Oh good, sometimes I worry in how I come across, I get excited about subjects and just start typing and then when I read it back later I regret how I phrased things!

I do not want to be all "oh you just started JUDDD this week and you are already saying to someone that it's ok to do two down days", and that's really not what I was meaning to say. All that I was trying to say is that it would not be disastrous to do two down days, I mean just in the context of fasting two days, not even talking about JUDDD necessarily. If this situation were to happen to me, I will probably fast two days in a row because it's something i've done before without negative consequence, and the literature I've read makes me think this is OK (for me!). However I would make those fast days protein protein protein.

I too picked JUDDD because I love the fact that the fast is only one day. Fasting 3 days in a row gets old! But not because it was negatively impacting my health, it just got tiresome to eat nothing but chicken breast and egg whites every day :)

SoHappy 01-05-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazelsmrf (Post 15301374)
It IS interesting, but I just wonder how he proves that this SIRT1 does not work if you fast 2 days, or every once a while you drop a day etc etc. I understand that alternate day fasting WORKS but I just really love knowing what exactly goes on in the body, and since we're always learning MORE about our bodies I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that A or B is always true and C is never true. I will order the book!




Oh good, sometimes I worry in how I come across, I get excited about subjects and just start typing and then when I read it back later I regret how I phrased things!

I do not want to be all "oh you just started JUDDD this week and you are already saying to someone that it's ok to do two down days", and that's really not what I was meaning to say. All that I was trying to say is that it would not be disastrous to do two down days, I mean just in the context of fasting two days, not even talking about JUDDD necessarily. If this situation were to happen to me, I will probably fast two days in a row because it's something i've done before without negative consequence, and the literature I've read makes me think this is OK (for me!). However I would make those fast days protein protein protein.

I too picked JUDDD because I love the fact that the fast is only one day. Fasting 3 days in a row gets old! But not because it was negatively impacting my health, it just got tiresome to eat nothing but chicken breast and egg whites every day :)

I quite agree with this. :laugh: When I did *The Great Experiment* awhile back, which was (if I even remember correctly) 2 DDs / 1 UD / 2 DD / 1 UD..... I really didn't notice a whole lot of difference. So, of course, being me, I thought Why am I doing this?

These days I pretty much just do plain ol' JUDDD, pretty much as written, and just relax.

I will say though... that SIRT1 thing? Well, that finding was several years ago, and now we also have SIRT2 and SIRT3 and SIRT4 and a whole lot of other interactions between various other *These Things* and various other *Those Things*... so, as usual, it's not as simple as it looked there for a minute. :annoyed:

I leave them to their studies and their study subjects. I'll post a couple of fun things if I can find them.

pjsam1156 01-05-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yam-Yam (Post 15301121)
Julie: I just read the book and highly recommend it. You will enjoy all the science behind JUDD.

The "magic" is in the activation of our SIRT1 gene.

SIRT1 is activated more and more as the DD/UD rotation continues and is firmly activated to the max after about one month of doing the rotation. After you have been at it for a while, even if you "fall off the wagon" and eat freely for up to 4 weeks you will probably maintain weight and not gain.

This is because SIRT1 continues to produce the fat busting protein. Longer than that and the effect will dissipate. Interesting, huh?

I have to admit--this seems to be true for me, at least since Dec. 20.:)
I was doing a normal rotation, weighed in at 145.6 on the 20th, and we left for Disney for Christmas. From Dec. 20 through the 26th, I just ate whatever, whenever--with some treats every day, as well. When we returned home on the 27th, I did a DD, and the next morning, I weighed 146.7!!! Only a 1 lb. gain! We did walk a lot, but I still have NEVER been on another WOE where this has happened (especially LC!:hyst:)
LOVIN' JUDDD!:love:

Yam-Yam 01-05-2012 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazelsmrf (Post 15301374)
It IS interesting, but I just wonder how he proves that this SIRT1 does not work if you fast 2 days, or every once a while you drop a day etc etc. I understand that alternate day fasting WORKS but I just really love knowing what exactly goes on in the body, and since we're always learning MORE about our bodies I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that A or B is always true and C is never true. I will order the book!

He did not say that at all. In fact, he said that once it's activated (and it actually gets activated on the first DD) and followed enough to build up the unique fat busting protein on a regular basis, it doesn't hurt at all to mix things up. You can have medium days or whatever occasionally and then get right back into the rotation. He never says anything about having 2 DDs in a row that I recall except that some people are tempted to do it because they think deprivation is the key to WL. He points out that the whole point of this WOE is to NOT feel deprived by knowing you can eat tomorrow. I heartily agree with that philosophy.

Also, from his book and "Choose to Lose" by Chris Powell on Carb cycling, I'm beginning to understand the power of UDs to speed up the metabolism. In brief: UD's build and DD's burn. So our body gets into this firey routine of build-burn-build-burn and turns our bodies into fat burning machines. The UDs feed and build cells and muscles, which speeds up metabolism. Then comes a DD too quickly for our metabolism to shift downward. Our body is still in speedy metabolism mode and has to use stored fat for energy on DDs. Does any of that make sense?

LOL. I rattle along sometimes because I get excited about knowing what is going on in my body. I get revved up when I read several different books and I can see how all the info meshes together. I've read "The Dukan Diet" by Pierre Dukan and am reading again through my highlights of that, too. His plan is almost a mini or different version of JUDD and carb cycling. He has you eat only lean protein and FF lactose free dairy one day(as much as you want); then the next day you add in non-starchy veggies with the protein and keep rotating that way until you reach your goal.

Oh, Chris Powell says something else interesting. Divide your current body weight by 100. That is how much you can expect to lose every week on carb cycling. (Eating lean protein every day and only adding in veggies and complex carbs every other day. So, @ 199 divided by 100 = 1.99 or rounded up, 2 pounds per week. That's a realistic number for me to expect to lose per week. Sounds good to me right now. :jumpjoy:

Yam-Yam 01-05-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjsam1156 (Post 15301448)
I have to admit--this seems to be true for me, at least since Dec. 20.:)
I was doing a normal rotation, weighed in at 145.6 on the 20th, and we left for Disney for Christmas. From Dec. 20 through the 26th, I just ate whatever, whenever--with some treats every day, as well. When we returned home on the 27th, I did a DD, and the next morning, I weighed 146.7!!! Only a 1 lb. gain! We did walk a lot, but I still have NEVER been on another WOE where this has happened (especially LC!:hyst:)
LOVIN' JUDDD!:love:

I hear ya!!! I've never been on a plan where I could go on vacation, fall off the plan, and come back without a big gain.

Here's where things are getting interesting for me. On August 1st after I cried half the day because I was at my highest weight ever (230) I read Dukan's book. Actually, I just read up to and including the chapter on how exactly to do the ATTACK as he calls it. Stopped there because I did not want to be confused and I wanted it to sink in thoroughly.

I started the next day, but after all that crying, I was so mad at myself that I did not just do pure protein. I also greatly restricted my calories for 3 days in a row. I lost 11 pounds in 4 days! By day 10 I was down 14 and it has never come back. I was not perfect in those 10 days either. I had a few high carb days because I would get to the point where I was wanting some. But then I got right back on.

Now I'm wondering if this mysterious gene had become activated. My body fat % started to dive and has been going down ever since and I've been gaining lean muscle mass.

We had a 2 week vacation in September. Week one was Maui (my avatar is a photo I took right off our balcony). And the next week at my favorite luxury hotel in our state capitol near my favorite down town shopping mall! I did not gain one ounce despite going off plan. This encouraged me to get right back on plan when at home and I continued to lose until mid December when I felt like I was hitting a plateau. That's why I started reading the JUDD threads when I stumbled on them and here I am!:jumpjoy:

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yam-Yam (Post 15301481)
LOL. I rattle along sometimes because I get excited about knowing what is going on in my body. I get revved up when I read several different books and I can see how all the info meshes together. I've read "The Dukan Diet" by Pierre Dukan and am reading again through my highlights of that, too. His plan is almost a mini or different version of JUDD and carb cycling. He has you eat only lean protein and FF lactose free dairy one day(as much as you want); then the next day you add in non-starchy veggies with the protein and keep rotating that way until you reach your goal.

The Dukan diet is actually really close to what I used to do, which was Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Fat Loss plan, if you're interested in things like that I do recommend it, it was really interesting, and I find his writing style completely different than most others out there, he's pretty direct. But basically I ate about 500-600 calories of protein, as low fat as possible, with low carb veggies allowed. That was it, and every 3 days or so I could have one free meal. So basically that free meal day was an up day and the rest were down days. I do have to say, that I think I will be moving my down days to the pure protein, because I was never hungry on 500 cals of protein, but for the past few down days on JUDDD I've been eating carbs and it's not working so well for my appetite!

Yam-Yam 01-05-2012 06:17 PM

Julie: I know what you mean! Dukan says protein plus water intake produces ketones (all LC people know this!) and ketones are a powerful appetite suppressant! Also, protein takes longer than any of the other two macronutrients to digest --- 3 hours! So it keeps you full. And the SDA of protein is 30! Meaning that when you eat 100 calories of lean protein, it takes so much energy (30 calories worth) to digest and assimilate it, that you are only left with 70 calories of what you ate. Automatic calorie deficit! Very satisfying.

Yam-Yam 01-05-2012 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazelsmrf (Post 15301519)
The Dukan diet is actually really close to what I used to do, which was Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Fat Loss plan, if you're interested in things like that I do recommend it, it was really interesting, and I find his writing style completely different than most others out there, he's pretty direct.

I will definitely get that book. Thanks. Love to read stuff like this. It keeps me going. :D

Beeb 01-05-2012 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazelsmrf (Post 15301374)
It IS interesting, but I just wonder how he proves that this SIRT1 does not work if you fast 2 days, or every once a while you drop a day etc etc. I understand that alternate day fasting WORKS but I just really love knowing what exactly goes on in the body, and since we're always learning MORE about our bodies I wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion that A or B is always true and C is never true. I will order the book!




Oh good, sometimes I worry in how I come across, I get excited about subjects and just start typing and then when I read it back later I regret how I phrased things!

I do not want to be all "oh you just started JUDDD this week and you are already saying to someone that it's ok to do two down days", and that's really not what I was meaning to say. All that I was trying to say is that it would not be disastrous to do two down days, I mean just in the context of fasting two days, not even talking about JUDDD necessarily. If this situation were to happen to me, I will probably fast two days in a row because it's something i've done before without negative consequence, and the literature I've read makes me think this is OK (for me!). However I would make those fast days protein protein protein.

I too picked JUDDD because I love the fact that the fast is only one day. Fasting 3 days in a row gets old! But not because it was negatively impacting my health, it just got tiresome to eat nothing but chicken breast and egg whites every day :)

Agreed, but I still think, as I have posted in a thread here: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ju...weeks-all.html, that we really should to give JUDDD a fighting chance before we decided to "mix things up". And even Dr. J suggests you do the UD/DD rotation for at least 2 weeks to get things moving and your body use to a new WOE. :dunno:

Hazelsmrf 01-05-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeb (Post 15301758)
Agreed, but I still think, as I have posted in a thread here: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ju...weeks-all.html, that we really should to give JUDDD a fighting chance before we decided to "mix things up". And even Dr. J suggests you do the UD/DD rotation for at least 2 weeks to get things moving and your body use to a new WOE. :dunno:

Edit: oops mixed my threads up.

I have no intention of personally mixing things up, I only replied because starvation mode was brought up as a reason to not do it and I did not agree with starvation mode being the issue, that's all.


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