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-   -   UP/FD? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/752371-up-fd.html)

Jenn1225 01-04-2012 05:56 AM

UP/FD?
 
What is the difference between an UD and a FD?

MintQ8 01-04-2012 06:15 AM

Some people choose to count their calories on an Up Day. FD stands for all sorts of things - Free Day, Feast Day, Full Day! Basically no calories are counted at all, and if it's a Feast Day - you just know that's exactly what you're going to do - ie Christmas. Free Days, are pretty much what those in maintenance choose to do.

However, I was reading the book yesterday - and Dr Johnson says there is no need to count calories on your UD - a longquote from the book

"What about the Up Days?"

This is the part you want to hear: On the up days eat anything you want. Particularly when you start the diet, it's important to feel that you can have anything you want to eat every other day so that you avoid the sense of deprivation that sets in with other diets. Remember, compliance is everything, and most people who tend to be overweight have tried numerous diets, have developed a sense of frustration and failure, and envision the future as an infinite horizon of hunger and deprivation. The up days on this diet are your insurance that no matter what you're feeling today, you can always eat tomorrow. And if you're sticking to 20 percent of normal calorie intake on your down days, you'd have to eat a whoping 180 percent on your up days just to come out even. As a practical matter, this just doesn't happen, at least in the first three months or so.

As time passes, however, people do begin to increase their up-day intake, with a resultant slowing of weight loss. At that point it's a good idea to begin keeping a record of your up-day intake to become more mindful of what you are eating. you still need to be aware of the hungry crocodile within and remain conscious of when you're eating for pleasure rather than because you're hungry.

In our Asthma Study there was some evidence that the subjects were restraining themselves (but to a far less degree) on the up days as well as on the down days. This is a natural consequence of the desire to lose weight and there is no harm in restraining to some degree on the up day. It is critically important, however, that you not feel deprived; otherwise the Alternate-Day Diet would be nothing more than another daily dieting program. The goal is to eat whatever you want until you're satisfied, but not to overeat.


The main reason I went hunting is that my mum - Kissa - is now at goal - and according to the calculator her UD limit is 1400 and her maintenance level DD limit is around 850 - we both agree that would feel like 'deprivation'!!! She would much prefer to eat 500 - 600 on her down days and eat 1750 or so on her UD.

For me - I do keep a record of my UD - but so long as I have paid attention to the last line of the above quote - I'm not going to worry too much about being a couple of hundred up or down! If weight loss slows - then I can start to tighten up - and drop my UD cals!

cherryhair 01-04-2012 06:59 AM

Thanks Mint
I was thinking about not counting on UP's as well. One thing that gets to me is having to always count calories so if I can just follow my hunger/full response on UD I see this woe lasting longer for me.

oneoftwo 01-04-2012 11:25 AM

I have been doing Free Days (FD) on all my UD's since I am more trying to maintain then lose. I decided I will be strict 500-600 cal on my DD and I am pretty sure most days I am not going over 2000 on my FD. So as long as I can maintain with doing the FD/DD trend I will keep at it :)

sophiethecat 01-04-2012 11:34 AM

Great replies.

For me to lose weight initially, I had to count calories when I started JUDDD, keeping it around 1700-1800 UDs for weight loss. If I did between 1800-2000, I maintained, more than that and I usually gained.

But once I'd been on JUDDD a while and lost the weight I wanted, it seemed my metabolism improved and I have been able to do FDs without gain. Just maintaining right around where I want to.

When I started mixing things up even more over the last week and a half (FDs, some regular 36 hr. JUDDD DDs, IF, MUDDDg, etc.) I lost even more weight that I was not intending to lose. (I was just doing the odd eating schedules for the added health benefit.) Since I'm already doing FD, I'm not sure how I will stop losing other than to stop mixing up my eating patterns so much (the only pattern is the pattern of craziness, lol) and start doing more consistent eating/near-fasting again.

SoHappy 01-04-2012 11:42 AM

Dr. Johnson's writing is somewhat easier to construe as *Eat ALL that you want* for some than what he actually does say, which is Eat anything that you want*.

When you use the JUDDD Calorie Calculator to figure your UD calories, based on all your stats, you will notice that the Up Day calorie figure given to us is labeled our NORMAL Up Day Calories. So we are given a calorie number to keep in mind.

For those with only a few pounds to lose, those who are aghast at how heavy they have become when they've gained a mere 25 pounds, LOL, I think not having to pay attention to their UD calories probably works quite well for them, and they are able to rely on their DD calories to bring them weight loss because they aren't actually that big an eater in the first place.

But just using myself as an example, I had got to the point where I could have easily eaten at his example 180% of UD calories, and actually.. I still can! (Witness my breakfast of yesterday, of 4 pieces of toast, each slathered with melting butter and melting chunky peanut butter! Obviously I can't do that often, and then add in the rest of the day's foods/calories! Only using this as an example of how risky relying on NOT COUNTING CALORIES can be if you recognize yourself, honestly, as prone to overeating. LOL)

So while many can enjoy their Up Days as what I termed Free Days (FD), many can't. But many find they can intersperse Free Days into their rotations in place of some of their normally counted UDs, and that is nice.

SoHappy 01-04-2012 11:50 AM

Just wanted to add one more thing here too... This isn't the only site where people follow JUDDD. On some of the other sites, people have interpreted Dr. Johnson's words of *eat anything you want* to mean *eat as much as you want of anything* and they simply don't count UD calories at all, ever, and don't worry about it.

And this is certainly a very easy way to go through your days. But the thing I've noticed over and over and over again with most of them is this: Their weight losses don't remotely match ours here.

I'm not saying that everything on every UD has to be weighed and measured for accuracy, but there is definitely a danger to simply ignoring how much you are eating, and what the calorie count is mounting to, on your UDs all the time.

If your weight loss is making you happy, especially considering that you are only doing half of your days as the dieting Down Days.. you are probably doing a pretty good job of your Up Days too.

But if you aren't seeing the weight loss that you were hoping for, take another look at just how many calories you actually are consuming on those Up Days. Perhaps that's where the problem lies as to slow-ish weight loss.

Good luck to us all.

Beeb 01-04-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoHappy (Post 15297271)
Just wanted to add one more thing here too... This isn't the only site where people follow JUDDD. On some of the other sites, people have interpreted Dr. Johnson's words of *eat anything you want* to mean *eat as much as you want of anything* and they simply don't count UD calories at all, ever, and don't worry about it.

And this is certainly a very easy way to go through your days. But the thing I've noticed over and over and over again with most of them is this: Their weight losses don't remotely match ours here.

I'm not saying that everything on every UD has to be weighed and measured for accuracy, but there is definitely a danger to simply ignoring how much you are eating, and what the calorie count is mounting to, on your UDs all the time.

If your weight loss is making you happy, especially considering that you are only doing half of your days as the dieting Down Days.. you are probably doing a pretty good job of your Up Days too.

But if you aren't seeing the weight loss that you were hoping for, take another look at just how many calories you actually are consuming on those Up Days. Perhaps that's where the problem lies as to slow-ish weight loss.

Good luck to us all.

:goodpost: and I totally agree with Pat here! I had not start using FDs until I was at goal and below for about 2 months. When I realized it was "sticking" and that I could recognized my hunger did I feel comfortable enough to eat a FD. I still "eyeball" what I eat, though and count in my head at times. Example is today: I am going to eat Checkers fast food for dinner. I KNOW that there are a LOT of calories in that food and to be able to enjoy it I have kept my breakfast and lunch calories low, even though it's a FD. I don't like or want to over eat and really dislike the feeling of being stuffed or the guilt/worry I can do to myself if I do over eat.

If you can do an UD without counting and know yourself good enough to not overeat then I think that is a great thing. Me? Couldn't do it for quite sometime, so I "eased" into it when I got way into maintenance. Even now, sometimes, I still count on UDs to reign myself in when I see that scale number going above what I like. This is just what works for me and is in NO way what I suggest for anyone else. We all need to do what works for us, bottom line! ;):up:

Karen925 01-04-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoHappy (Post 15297251)
Dr. Johnson's writing is somewhat easier to construe as *Eat ALL that you want* for some than what he actually does say, which is Eat anything that you want*.

When you use the JUDDD Calorie Calculator to figure your UD calories, based on all your stats, you will notice that the Up Day calorie figure given to us is labeled our NORMAL Up Day Calories. So we are given a calorie number to keep in mind.

For those with only a few pounds to lose, those who are aghast at how heavy they have become when they've gained a mere 25 pounds, LOL, I think not having to pay attention to their UD calories probably works quite well for them, and they are able to rely on their DD calories to bring them weight loss because they aren't actually that big an eater in the first place.

But just using myself as an example, I had got to the point where I could have easily eaten at his example 180% of UD calories, and actually.. I still can! (Witness my breakfast of yesterday, of 4 pieces of toast, each slathered with melting butter and melting chunky peanut butter! Obviously I can't do that often, and then add in the rest of the day's foods/calories! Only using this as an example of how risky relying on NOT COUNTING CALORIES can be if you recognize yourself, honestly, as prone to overeating. LOL)

So while many can enjoy their Up Days as what I termed Free Days (FD), many can't. But many find they can intersperse Free Days into their rotations in place of some of their normally counted UDs, and that is nice.

Another excellent post bearing repeating in its entirety.

I will not get fat again. To ensure this, I have decided that I must weigh myself & my food every day to stay at my calorie budget for my body. Eternal vigilance is a price I will pay for the best health possible.

JUDDD has allowed me to shift the calories each day to enjoy a greater range of food. It is still too early for me to tell if I will be able to eat more calories. Only started this way of eating in mid November with JUDDD. I also think, again time is to short to say for sure, that I like the feeling of fasting. I have one & no more than two 24 hr fasts each week. I am intrigued by the health benefits of fasting and am willing to try it. I can say for sure, that the weight bounce up after higher calorie days comes off easier JUDDDing than it does lowcal/lowcarb every day. That in and of itself is a keeper for JUDDD for me.

SoHappy 01-04-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karen925 (Post 15297810)
Another excellent post bearing repeating in its entirety.

I will not get fat again. To ensure this, I have decided that I must weigh myself & my food every day to stay at my calorie budget for my body. Eternal vigilance is a price I will pay for the best health possible.

JUDDD has allowed me to shift the calories each day to enjoy a greater range of food. It is still too early for me to tell if I will be able to eat more calories. Only started this way of eating in mid November with JUDDD. I also think, again time is to short to say for sure, that I like the feeling of fasting. I have one & no more than two 24 hr fasts each week. I am intrigued by the health benefits of fasting and am willing to try it. I can say for sure, that the weight bounce up after higher calorie days comes off easier JUDDDing than it does lowcal/lowcarb every day. That in and of itself is a keeper for JUDDD for me.

I also have come to appreciate, and most often truly enjoy, the fasting days on JUDDD. The more you follow the length-of-life studies done based on calorie restriction, all the way up to primate study subjects, the more strongly convinced you become that there are real health benefits as a result of the fasting portion of JUDDD.

So it far more than just weight loss, and it more than merely calorie cycling. It's actually some strong benefits from the fast period itself.

I will keep my fingers crossed that you are able to realize what many of us have... that is, a definite increase in your metabolic rate of burn! I think most of us are a little bit broken in that area with overweight as a result, and sometimes not even on all that high a calorie amount each day.

But there seems to be something about the alternating cycle of low calorie/high calorie over and over that helps us. I liken it to the action of a piston, pounding up as well as pounding down, against our calorie ceilings, that is able to pound our UD calorie ceilings a bit higher and a bit higher eventually. Well, especially if we keep increasing that calorie number bit by bit to test it. I suppose if you just held to an initial low number it might not do much. I don't know. LOL

Anyway, best regards, and hoping all the best results from JUDDD! And in the meantime, enjoy all the delicious UD foods you get to eat. :laugh:


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