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Old 12-19-2011, 05:16 PM   #1
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Dense food or bulky food: Dr Bernstein's "Chinese Restaurant Effect"

I wanted to share this concept, especially for any diabetics on or contemplating JUDDD.
Many of the DD recipes rely on low calorie/low carb "bulk" like shirataki noodles, shredded cabbage, and psyllium or other fibers; many JUDDDers incorporate large salads into their menus.
But if you feel hungry shortly after eating large amounts of these foods, this may explain why.

Also, please note that I titled this "Dense food OR bulky food", not "VERSUS".

Quote:
THE CHINESE RESTAURANT EFFECT (Dr. Bernstein)
Many years ago a patient asked me why her blood sugar went from 90 mg/dl up to 300 mg/dl every afternoon after she went swimming. I asked what she ate before the swim. “Nothing, just a freebie,” she replied. As it turned out, the “freebie” was lettuce. When I asked her just how much lettuce she was eating before her swims, she replied, “A head.”

A head of lettuce contains about 10 grams of carbohydrate, which can raise a type 1 adult’s blood sugar about 50 mg/dl at most. So what accounts for the other 160 mg/dl rise in her blood sugar?

The explanation lies in what I call the Chinese restaurant effect. Often Chinese restaurant meals contain large amounts of protein or slow-acting, low-carbohydrate foods, such as bean sprouts, bok choy, mushrooms, bamboo shoots, and water chestnuts, that can make you feel full.

How can these low-carbohydrate foods affect blood sugar so dramatically?

The upper part of the small intestine contains cells that release hormones into the bloodstream when they are stretched, as after a meal. These hormones signal the pancreas to produce some insulin to prevent the blood sugar rise that might otherwise follow the digestion of a meal. Large meals will cause greater stretching of the intestinal cells, which in turn will secrete proportionately larger amounts of these hormones. Since a very small amount of insulin released by the pancreas can cause a large drop in blood sugar, the pancreas simultaneously produces the less potent hormone glucagon to offset the potential excess effect of the insulin. If you’re diabetic and deficient in producing insulin, you might not release insulin, but you will still release glucagon, which will cause gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis and thereby raise your blood sugar. Thus, if you eat enough to feel stuffed, your blood sugar can go up by a large amount, even if you eat something indigestible, such as sawdust.

The first lesson here is: Don’t stuff yourself.
The second lesson is: There’s no such thing as a freebie.
Any solid food that you eat can raise your blood sugar.
On LC and before starting JUDDD, I feel I had "trained" myself to be satisfied on small amounts of (usually high-fat) food, largely (lol) because of this passage in Dr B's book, but also because I was aiming for 60-70% fat. I wasn't losing weight on this, but my blood sugar, moods, and--very importantly, to me--hunger were well-controlled. Since starting JUDDD, I have been reluctant to rely on low-calorie bulky foods to get me through the day; instead, I've mostly been using low-fat protein and warm drinks/broth.

ETA:
This may apply more for Type 1s, since he says, "if you are deficient in producing insulin".
However, even for Type 2s and non-diabetics, you may want to avoid producing insulin unnecessarily, since it burns out beta cells (for Type 2s) and facilitates fat storage (for everybody!).
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Last edited by piratejenny; 12-19-2011 at 05:41 PM.. Reason: punctuation, ETA
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:32 PM   #2
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Yes! ITA with Bernstein's chinese restaurant effect. I've put a lot of Bernstein's ideas into practice, and this may have been the latest one, though I didn't do it on purpose. I came to it sort of backwardly by realizing that it is not BULK that makes me feel full and satisfied. A big belly full of cabbage or lettuce is not imo a full satisfied belly anyway. But a few pieces of bacon, five or six at most, will keep me satisfied *all*day*long*. The volume of that bacon is nothing, though. My belly just does not need to be "full" for me to feel sated. And six slices of bacon, thick cut, is only around 550 calories, much less than the follow up to the big bowl of cabbage would be for me.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:41 PM   #3
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On DD, I was eating whole bags of raw veggies and feeling just as hungry as if I hadn't eaten them. I realized I needed protein foods to feel satisfied on DD. I can eat a couple hb eggs or other protein and go a lot further than I ever could on bulk like veggies.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:23 AM   #4
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I have known this for some time. I'm not diabetic, but I revere Dr. Bernstein and follow many of his principles to avoid becoming diabetic (all my siblings are Type 2).

In my 3 years on JUDDD, my DDs have been mainly protein--tuna, egg white omelets. It's the protein that satisfies me, not bulk.

When I began JUDDD, I asked Dr. Eades (via e-mail) about DD 'safety,' and he advised me to focus on 'high-quality protein,' and that's what I've always done and been satisfied (or as satisfied as can be on 370 cal).
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:48 AM   #5
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Yep! My attempt at 'normal' JUDDD where I ate, say, a piece of fruit for a meal, was leaving me just STARVING. Now that I eat protein on DDs, I have no hunger problems at ALL!
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I wanted to share this concept, especially for any diabetics on or contemplating JUDDD.
Many of the DD recipes rely on low calorie/low carb "bulk" like shirataki noodles, shredded cabbage, and psyllium or other fibers; many JUDDDers incorporate large salads into their menus.
But if you feel hungry shortly after eating large amounts of these foods, this may explain why.

Also, please note that I titled this "Dense food OR bulky food", not "VERSUS".



On LC and before starting JUDDD, I feel I had "trained" myself to be satisfied on small amounts of (usually high-fat) food, largely (lol) because of this passage in Dr B's book, but also because I was aiming for 60-70% fat. I wasn't losing weight on this, but my blood sugar, moods, and--very importantly, to me--hunger were well-controlled. Since starting JUDDD, I have been reluctant to rely on low-calorie bulky foods to get me through the day; instead, I've mostly been using low-fat protein and warm drinks/broth.

ETA:
This may apply more for Type 1s, since he says, "if you are deficient in producing insulin".
However, even for Type 2s and non-diabetics, you may want to avoid producing insulin unnecessarily, since it burns out beta cells (for Type 2s) and facilitates fat storage (for everybody!).
This is amazingly helpful to me. I am not diabetic but find myself so hungry on my DD's and parsing out my calories by eating small amounts of mostly vegetables throughout the day and then forcing myself to go to bed so I won't eat the wallpaper. I am going to try this today to see if it helps with my hunger. Thanks.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:26 AM   #7
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I have been having protein on my dds and doing so much better. yesterday I had just a little over 300c and did fine. i was just starting to get hungry at bedtime.

But when I awoke this morning not hungry.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasiey View Post
I have been having protein on my dds and doing so much better. yesterday I had just a little over 300c and did fine. i was just starting to get hungry at bedtime.

But when I awoke this morning not hungry.
Do you mind my asking what did you have? My calories for DD are 300 as well.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:37 AM   #9
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roast beef and cheese wedges.
I get both at aldis. the whole pack of roast beef is 240 and 2 cheese wedges is 50c.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chona View Post
This is amazingly helpful to me. I am not diabetic but find myself so hungry on my DD's and parsing out my calories by eating small amounts of mostly vegetables throughout the day and then forcing myself to go to bed so I won't eat the wallpaper. I am going to try this today to see if it helps with my hunger. Thanks.
Hi!
I was actually wondering about you a little while ago...I thought I hadn't seen any posts from you for a couple weeks!

I'm so glad this post is helpful for you!

I eat egg whites and cold cuts like ham and turkey--packaged ones, because the slices/calories are more uniform than ones from the deli. Shrimp are also good!
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:43 AM   #11
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I also eat shrimp you get alot for a few calories.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:45 AM   #12
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egg beaters, turkey sausage and cheese wedges.

makes a good dd meal as well
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasiey View Post
egg beaters, turkey sausage and cheese wedges.

makes a good dd meal as well
I was out of town for a week...thanks for being concerned! That's when I gained all my weight back. BUT, this holiday even though we are traveling for 10 days, I have already made out all my menus for UD and DD. That's why your tips are so helpful. I am going to stock up on the deli cold cuts and shrimp and egg whites. All great ideas. Thanks Dasiey.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:14 AM   #14
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I was out of town for a week...thanks for being concerned! That's when I gained all my weight back. BUT, this holiday even though we are traveling for 10 days, I have already made out all my menus for UD and DD. That's why your tips are so helpful. I am going to stock up on the deli cold cuts and shrimp and egg whites. All great ideas. Thanks Dasiey.
And PirateJenny!!!
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:18 AM   #15
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your welcome ideas always helps me to keep going.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:19 AM   #16
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Interesting. I also focus on protein, cheese, and low-carb veggies. No fruit or grains at all on DDs -- I would be starving! But a few cups of cabbage or Asian veggies are fine.

Conversely if I don't eat higher-carb things on UDs I can't get all of my calories in.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:38 AM   #17
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On DD's lately I have been eating 2 eggs and 2 GG's Scandinavian Crispbreads spread with sour cream and Walden Farms Caramel Sauce. I spread the food out so I am always satisfied and reasonably full, but never stuffed. I also drink LOTS of tea all day long and at night I have a cup of Better Than Bouillon Mushroom flavor and a sugar-free jell-o. It's about 350 calories, low-carb.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:12 AM   #18
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On DD's lately I have been eating 2 eggs and 2 GG's Scandinavian Crispbreads spread with sour cream and Walden Farms Caramel Sauce. I spread the food out so I am always satisfied and reasonably full, but never stuffed. I also drink LOTS of tea all day long and at night I have a cup of Better Than Bouillon Mushroom flavor and a sugar-free jell-o. It's about 350 calories, low-carb.
I wish I could eat the crispbreads...but I am GF. I like the idea of spreading it out. And having something to look forward to. I think I need to amp up my liquids, too, as I drink coffee in the morning but really need to develop a taste for tea. What type of tea? Green?
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:34 AM   #19
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I drink green and black. I love ice tea as well.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:40 AM   #20
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Thanks! I have some herbal and I have green--will try them both.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:54 AM   #21
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Thanks for starting this thread, piratejenny. This was definitely the case for me, as I found out through personal experience. It was hard to get through DDs at first because I was eating a lot of low cal/low fat food and most of it turned out to be higher carb. Even large amounts of bulky veggies that weren't really too high carb weren't cutting it, no matter how much I ate of it. I would get hungry again quickly and would then blow my calorie limit for the day even if I ate late in the day.

I'm not diabetic, but I know I'm carb sensitive and have had some degree of insulin resistance from a few test results over the past 10 years. All I know is that once I went back to keeping things low carb and started eating good protein and whatever filling good fats I can squeeze into my DD calories, I didn't have any problems with hunger anymore and the shaky jittery feeling and headaches went away.

This really helps because I don't really have time to cook except on the weekends, so I end up cooking a bunch of things for an entire week. On my DDs, I'll have the items with high proteins/fats that are the least carby (just less of them), and on my UDs I eat everything that I've made, which is still fairly low carb, just more veggies and some low carb baked goods or nuts, occasional fruit etc. I know this doesn't work for everyone but for me it's really important to keep things simple otherwise I stray and am more likely to give up. Another benefit of doing this is that I save a ton of money since I'm literally eating a lot less for half of my days, and don't need to buy low fat/low cal versions of things.

I should probably mention that I don't eat wheat in any form at all and avoid refined sugar as much as I can due to sensitivities and serious digestive issues when I touch them, so those were never a part of my diet. The occasional high carb meal on UDs when I go out to eat (such as sushi) hasn't hurt my progress or caused hunger issues, so I'm seriously thrilled to find that I can indulge from time to time and still lose weight. This is a far cry from 5 months doing strict vlc and not losing even a single pound!

Last edited by vilanteira; 12-20-2011 at 09:59 AM..
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:19 PM   #22
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I'm neither diabetic nor pre-diabetic (I mention this because it might be relevant).

Before beginning JUDDD, I'd been eating lower-carb rather than low carb for some years. (I'd estimate approx. 60-85g per day of carbs, I avoid potato, rice, pasta or bread.) I'm accustomed to eating approx. 1kg of vegetables/fruit per day (altho' no more than 2 pieces of fruit) and some pulses or beans such as chickpeas, mung beans or lentils.

I've found that reducing the volume of food that I eat has caused substantial problems with constipation, even if I take 2tsps of psyllium husk a day. I prefer bulky food and it doesn't seem to trigger hunger for me: if anything, eating in accordance with Barbara Rolls' Volumetric principles seems helpful for me as a way of suppressing my appetite.

I wonder if the Insulin Index of some foods that appear to lack carbohydrates but elicit a substantial rise in blood sugar may have a role to play here? I know from experience that some foodstuffs that are reported to have a low GI or GL can leave me unsatisfied or hungry. On balance, for this time of my life, bulky, fibre-rich foods suit me although this is difficult to reconcile with the need to eat very low-calorie foods on DD.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chona View Post
BUT, this holiday even though we are traveling for 10 days, I have already made out all my menus for UD and DD.
This is extremely wise. Easier to follow a plan, when one has one. I look forward to reading about your success.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:57 PM   #24
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I look forward to trying out these thoughts. Thanks for the post.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:01 PM   #25
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This is extremely wise. Easier to follow a plan, when one has one. I look forward to reading about your success.
I will def let you know. I find if I don't plan, I get into trouble. Have a great holiday.
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