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-   -   I can feel inflammation go down.. but unfortunately, also UP (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/747912-i-can-feel-inflammation-go-down-but-unfortunately-also-up.html)

sophiethecat 12-04-2011 10:30 AM

I can feel inflammation go down.. but unfortunately, also UP
I've said a number of times here that since starting JUDDD, I can feel inflammation lowering while in the fasting (or rather near fasting) part of it.

Over the last couple weeks, I believe I can also feel inflammation RISING during the eating parts of it.

It happens after I have a meal. I don't know if it makes a difference in how many carbs are in the meal, or if it's just if I have a big meal or what. All I know is that often within an hour of eating a big meal, I will start getting this uncomfortable feeling that's almost impossible to describe, but I'll try.

It's like a stuffiness along with some weird sensation, or maybe pressure is the better word, that seems to go in a line up the front of my body... from belly through head. Weird, I know.

It's not pain, it's more like how your sinuses would feel if you were having an allergy problem, yet I feel it in my abdomen and up, not JUST in my head... It goes away in a few hours, I guess. It's not a horrible pain type of thing, it's an uncomfortable little aggravation type thing. My instinct is that it's some kind of inflammation.

I just know I feel a lot better during the fasting part of my days, although I do like to eat too. :) I just had a big meal with French toast, hash browns, eggs & bacon, finished it about 12:30, so I'll see if I get that feeling again.

I really like the different schedule I'm using with JUDDD (we call it "MUDDD") and I think it's helping me to eat regular meals instead of grazing (which is helpful for me, though grazing might be better for others). I may go up to 8 hours between meals now, and perhaps this is what is allowing me to feel inflammation go up or down. Because before, if I was eating every so many hours, say on a regular UD, perhaps the inflammation was always at a more steady rate in my body, so it was harder to detect changes ??

Strange how JUDDD/MUDDD has enabled me to be more intuitive, I guess you could say, about what is going on in my body.

I actually ran across an article that is shedding a little light on what I'm experiencing. It's from a website called Life Enhancement.

Inflammation After Eating a Mixed Meal: Eating May Be Hazardous to Your Health

A new study1 found inflammatory effects in nine normal-weight subjects after eating a 910-calorie mixed meal. The subjects were nondiabetic, aged 29–38 years, and of normal weight. The subjects’ gender(s) was not provided.

The mixed meal consisted of 910 calories from egg-muffin and sausage-muffin sandwiches and two hash-browns, with 81 grams of carbohydrate, 51 grams of fat, and 32 grams of protein, eaten over 15 minutes. The control subjects were given 300 ml of water in a fasted state in place of the mixed meal.

This is a high-carbohydrate, high-fat, and (the way we see it) not very appetizing meal. The purpose of the study, however, was not to test for a good or bad diet but to see whether “. . . the intake of a 900-calorie mixed meal induces an increase in ROS [reactive oxygen species] generation by leukocytes and an inflammatory response at the cellular level.” The results confirmed the hypothesis.

Plasma glucose concentrations were not changed significantly after the meal, but plasma insulin concentrations increased significantly at 1 hour after the meal and remained elevated at 2 and 3 hours. Plasma triacylglycerol (triglycerides) were increased significantly at 2 and 3 hours following the meal. Nuclear NF-kappaB in mononuclear cells was statistically significantly increased after the meal, probably due to the inhibited expression of I-kappaB, the protein that maintains NF-kappaB in the cytosol of cells, preventing it from moving into the nucleus. The I-kappaB expression was decreased by the induction of IKK-alpha and IKK-beta, which phosphorylate I-kappaB and cause its degradation.

C-reactive protein, an inflammatory substance associated with cardiovascular disease risk, was significantly increased after the meal. The authors note that proinflammatory stimuli, such as endotoxin and cytokines (such as tumor necrosis factor-alpha), induce an increase in intranuclear NF-kappaB and a decrease in I-kappaB.

NADPH oxidase is a major source of superoxide radicals; the p47phox subunit of this enzyme in the mononuclear cell homogenates was increased significantly at 1 hour and remained elevated for 3 hours after the meal. All nine subjects showed increased ROS (reactive oxygen species) generation by mononuclear cells after meal intake. None of these proinflammatory changes occurred in the control subjects getting water.

The authors note that these proinflammatory effects last for about 3 hours after the intake of the meal. Since people may eat again only a few hours after a meal, it is possible that chronic overeating may result in a nearly continuous state of inflammation. These effects may explain (at least in part) the reason for the reduced postischemic brachial artery vasodilation after eating a meal (especially a high-fat meal). Earlier studies have shown that taking vitamins E and C before a meal prevents this abnormality. As the authors note, these effects of ordinary eating in nonobese individuals need to be studied further, because obesity is associated with an increase in oxidative stress and an increase in plasma concentrations of proinflammatory mediators, such as tumor necrosis factor-alpha, interleukin-6, and C-reactive protein. It almost (but not quite) makes you wish you didn’t need to eat.

This study underscores the need to take antioxidants just before or with a meal. We hypothesize that a possible explanation for inflammatory reactions after eating food is that for most of human history, the food eaten was much dirtier (contained far more bacteria, parasites, and viruses) than our food today. Thus, having an inflammatory reaction after eating food that would be protective against infection makes sense. Using Third World countries as a model, the likelihood is great that infectious disease will be the #1 killer before you reach reproductive age (except in areas where there is ongoing warfare). The inflammation following food consumption also provides an explanation, at least in part, for why eating less (as in caloric restriction) has healthful benefits.

1. Aljada et al. Increase in intranuclear nuclear factor kappaB and decrease in inhibitor kappaB in mononuclear cells after a mixed meal: evidence for a proinflammatory effect. Am J Clin Nutr 79:682-90 (2004).

I am not sure what their angle is - I never looked around the website at all. I'm just interested in what they are saying about the inflammation.

I have no idea if my issue is from a small - medium "mixed meal" or just a very large meal (which is also mixed).

I'll try to pay more attention to this phenomenon.

I took all my vitamins (which I've slacked off on lately) and extra antioxidants a little bit ago to see if that helps prevent or lessen this feeling I get, and I'll report whether it makes a difference.

In the meantime, anyone else notice anything like this?

sophiethecat 12-04-2011 11:01 AM

OK, so far that unwanted feeling hasn't come on full force. I felt it a little bit about 1:30 to 1:50 p.m. or so, but now I feel pretty fine :)

Maybe the supps really helped. I took one fish oil capsule (I haven't taken my usual fish or krill oil for a week or two since I ran out...) an alpha lipoic acid (don't usually take this), a full multi vitamin (usually cut these in half and only take on UD), plus turmeric, extra D, MSM, some calcium, mag, and an OTC allergy pill, along with a few other things I normally take.

julietcc 12-04-2011 12:13 PM

I wish I could offer insights to you but I really don't know much about imflamation. I really should learn more about it but I've just been lazy! It's one of the topics I have avoided along with shirataki and glucomannan.

Do you think it has to do with what KINDS of foods you are eating or more with the calorie cycling?

Dottie 12-04-2011 12:17 PM

Watch MSM, it gave me heart palpitations.
For the weird feeling, could it be a food allergy? I know if I eat something with msg I just feel awful and my ankles start swelling immediately.

dasiey 12-04-2011 12:19 PM

For me I think it has to do with food. If I eat foods high in sodium on my uds I know I will have inflation. But its not as bad as it use to be

dasiey 12-04-2011 12:20 PM

Msg is bad for me as well.

piratejenny 12-04-2011 03:39 PM

Sophie, I saw your topic and had to run out to do errands, but turmeric was something I wanted to suggest the minute I got home! It is SO super-anti-inflammatory!!!

It is also a powerful blood-thinner, which may be a desired effect for some and not for others. For example, if you were to have any dental work or surgery, you would want to avoid turmeric for a few days beforehand.

I am amazed at how in tune you are with your body to have noticed this effect!
I am also, however, a little concerned/curious as to whether you might have some mild food sensitivity or allergy.

Another possible reason we have a proinflammatory reaction to food:
In a discussion with someone a few weeks/months (?) ago about why it's good to give our bodies a rest from digestion, I found an explanation that our bodies can perceive FOOD as a "foreign object". The act of digestion includes a sort of immune response; some components don't just have to be broken down into something our bodies can use, they must be neutralized or eliminated so they won't irritate our tissues or accumulate to toxic levels.

Anyway...I know I could ramble on and on about this. There is definitely a very strong connection between our digestive and immune systems and inflammation. I think taking anti-inflammatory supplements with your meals is a fantastic idea!

melissaconatser 12-04-2011 04:55 PM

I have had something similar going on. Be forewarned, this is probably going to be a long post, and I will try to make sense. I tend to jump around when I am trying to talk something out. lol

About 4 years ago, my white blood cell count went up. Not into dangerous territory, but "slightly elevated". My doctor sent me to an oncologist. He did a bunch of tests, including for different forms of leukemia. When I went in for the results, he said the only thing my blood test results told him is that I have inflammation somewhere in my body. There was nothing more he could tell me, and nothing he could do for me. (Gee, thanks, Doc!) Within a few months, my count returned to normal, and that was that.

If memory serves, since then (I think this started after the blood count thing), if I have been eating badly for an extended period of time, then I have a very bad reaction. I have always assumed it was just bad carbs, but sometimes I wonder if it isn't a combination of carbs, overeating and maybe something like gluten. When I eat too much of a high carb meal, or a bunch of junk food, I get a variety of symptoms: lethargic, drowsy, moody, light-headed, very thirsty. Usually, the following morning, if I don't eat within a couple hours of rising, I get very nauseated. I just recently connected the getting sick if I don't eat soon enough with the overeating/carbs/junk, because when I was doing LC, I don't recall having the trouble with getting sick like that. Since Thanksgiving, I have had some pretty bad days for choices in food, and have found myself getting that same sickness the next morning.

A year or so ago, my white blood cell count went up again. I went to a different oncologist, and she said that sometimes it is normal for some people to have higher numbers. (Sigh, thanks again!) My count has maintained at that same "slightly elevated level" over the last year. However, during a time that I was following LC pretty well, my doctor checked my blood count and it had lowered some. Not quite normal, but lower than it had been running.

Then, several months ago, I started having this funny feeling in my chest. It felt like my heart was jumping around and skipping beats. I wore a heart monitor for 24 hours, but it came back that my heart is fine. I had also had horrible gas, a problem I've never really had before. My doctor did a blood test for H. Pylori, but it came back negative. She decided that I must have acid reflux and told me to to start taking something like Prilosec or Prevacid. I now take Prevacid everyday, and for the most part, the funny feelings in my chest have gone away. I still have the gas very badly, though.

Now, to what actually brought on this big, long story! Sophie, when you talk about the pressure, it struck a chord with me. The last month or so, I have noticed some pressure in my belly/chest region. Every now and then it is over the entire area, but almost always, it is on my left side, just under my ribs. It isn't painful, but it is a tightening/pressure. I figured it had something to do with all the gas I have. Of course, if I overeat or have a lot of carbs, then it is worse.

I think my husband thinks I am crazy or something, because I have felt for a few years now that I have an as of yet un-diagnosed condition that would relate to digestion, inflammation, metabolism and/or hormones. I am constantly researching things, trying to figure it out.

melissaconatser 12-04-2011 06:19 PM

I forgot to add in my post above that I also get stuffy after eating. Again, it seems to be when I eat too much or maybe some carb-y food. I've never pin-pointed an exact food that does it. However, about an hour after I eat, it will be like my allergies have gone haywire or something, and my nose will get so stuffy.

sophiethecat 12-06-2011 10:52 AM

Thanks, guys for all the comments on this! :)

Since my TOM went away, I haven't been aggravated by this again so far. Even when I had big meals with carbs. I'm thinking it had something to do with TOM, since I've noticed other problems around that time too - such as the cramps, the flu/cold symptoms, etc. Sounds like immune system/inflammation, but who knows for sure - self diagnosing is a pain. :confused

I'll just keep on keeping track of things and look for patterns.

FremenChick 12-07-2011 08:52 AM

Hi sophie cat,

I have had the same symptoms you reported whenever I eat anything containing wheat/gluten, even small amounts. Dollars to donuts you are gluten intolerant. I am intolerant of dairy, too, so that is something else to watch out for. Oftentimes our symptoms are subtle.

Have you ever tried an elimination diet?

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