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-   -   Thyroid and JUDDD (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/745323-thyroid-juddd.html)

betty301 11-13-2011 07:22 AM

Thyroid and JUDDD
 
I keep running into this article:

Starvation and Fasting

Multiple alterations in thyroid hormone regulation and metabolism have been noted during caloric restriction. The most dramatic effect is a decrease in the serum TT3 within 24-48 hours of the initiation of fasting.36-40b Because changes in the free T3 fraction are usually small, the absolute concentration of FT3 is also reduced, clearly into the hypothyroid range The marked reduction in serum T3 is caused by a reduction in its generation from T4 rather than by an acceleration in its metabolic clearance rate.41,42 The decline in T3 concentration is accompanied by a concomitant and reciprocal change in the concentration of total and free rT3. The increase in the serum rT3 concentration tends to begin later and to return to normal at the time serum T3 is being maintained at a low level with continuous calorie deprivation.38,39 Little change occurs in the concentrations of TT4 and FT4 and the production and metabolic clearance rates of T4.38,39,41,42 When small changes have been observed, they were generally in the direction of an increase in the FT4 concentration. They are attributed to decreased concentration of the carrier proteins in serum, as well as to their diminished association with the hormone caused by the inhibitory effect of free fatty acids (FFA) the level of which increases during fasting.40,43

betty301 11-13-2011 07:24 AM

I don't have a degree in biochemistry but I think this means fasting/calorie restriction is not good for a thyroid person???

:idk:

I've also read it is not good to diet because you are just further suppressing the thyroid/metabolism causing more damage.

:dizzy:

betty301 11-13-2011 07:26 AM

Composition of the diet rather than reduction in the total calorie intake seems to determine the occurrence of decreased T3 generation in peripheral tissues during food deprivation. The dietary content of carbohydrate appears to be the key ingredient since as little as 50 g glucose reverses toward normal the fast-induced changes in T3 and rT3.52 Replacement of dietary carbohydrate with fat results in changes typical of starvation.39,53 Refeeding of protein may partially improve the rate of T3 generation, but the protein may be acting as a source of glucose through gluconeogenesis.54 Yet, dietary glucose is not the sole agent responsible for all changes in iodothyronine metabolism associated with starvation. For example, the increase in serum rT3 concentration may not be solely dependent on carbohydrate deprivation since a pure protein diet partially restores the level of rT3 but not that of T339 (Fig. 5-1). The composition of the antecedent diet also has an effect on the magnitude of the serum T3 fall during fasting.39,52 It is possible that the cytoplasmic redox state, measured in terms of the lactate/pyruvate ratio rather than glucose itself, regulates the rate of deiodinative pathways of iodothyronines.55

:stars:

ok, I think this means that as long as you eat a diet with 50 net carbs your body doesn't think it's starving, lol

Star73 11-13-2011 07:40 AM

maybe that's why I felt horrible on VLC. When I first did Atkins in 2003 I lost weight and felt great and didn't feel depressed or tired. I wasn't hypothyroid at the time either. This time around I felt horrible, depressed, tired, etc. Maybe my thyroid has something to do with it. My levels are good, but still the diet could play a role.

I feel TONS better on JUDDD!

Leo41 11-13-2011 08:28 AM

I am hypothyroid (Hashimoto's), and I've been doing JUDDD for almost 3 years. My endo thinks this WOE is wonderful because it enables me to restrict calories so much, as I need to due to age and thyroid.

He checks me every 4 months, and since I have not needed any medication change, there doesn't seem to be any negative effects from JUDDD.

Keep in mind that limiting DDs to only 24 hours protects against any of the issues you've listed. It's been a while since I read the book, but I think Dr. J points out that it takes the body at least 48 hrs. to respond to dietary restrictions, etc., which is why DDs should never be consecutive.

kris4chloe 11-13-2011 08:43 AM

I had a hard time following that, my eyes start to glaze over when there are to many scientific terms, but I was thinking the same thing Leo said, that we are not keeping the calories low long enough for the body to catch on. :dunno:

SoHappy 11-13-2011 08:44 AM

I've been hypothyroid for decades of my life. Holding low carb was not good for me! LOL
Being able to withhold almost all carbohydrate food to fool your body into thinking famine, to trigger its need to turn to burning ketones to sustain life, does seem to make something in your brain think starvation. We do notice in a bajillion posts that people begin to be bothered by low thyroid symptoms after being low carb for awhile. So apparently I'm not the only one who experienced negative effects and way more low thyroid symptoms doing that plan.

And those *normal* diet plans that require you to lower your calories to *not enough food* levels, and stay low calorie diet level every single day, to force your body into using fat to sustain itself, also simulates a famine situation to your body, which triggers a major slow down. That's the thyroid signaling... that gland being triggered to slow down your metabolism, your body temperature, your heartbeat, etc. in an effort to maintain your life through this period of famine. Poor brain. It doesn't understand that you're only on a low calorie diet.

One of the strengths of JUDDD is that the brain is being stimulated with the intake of food, food, food every other day. No signaling it to make the thyroid slow down, make the metabolism slow, the temperature drop, the heart rate to decrease, etc. It's not like being on a diet. How can there be any worry of starvation when the body is being well fed within every 48-hour period? No reason to slow the thyroid. No reason to slow anything. No need to go into starvation mode. Plenty of food.

It sure has been a wonderful plan for hypothyroid me! :up:

betty301 11-13-2011 09:27 AM

Leo- you are one of the ladies that was mentioned recently.
This makes me feel better that even your ENDO thinks this is a good/safe plan.

Pat- thank you for that..makes perfect sense! :high5:

I was starting to doubt my thyroid and this plan.

SoHappy 11-13-2011 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15171573)
Leo- you are one of the ladies that was mentioned recently.
This makes me feel better that even your ENDO thinks this is a good/safe plan.

Pat- thank you for that..makes perfect sense! :high5:

I was starting to doubt my thyroid and this plan.

Having slowed thyroid function sure doesn't help! :annoyed:

BUT, lots of women are hypothyroid (and 90% of that is Hashimoto's thyroiditis) and fat can still be lost, bodies can still slim down, health can still be improved. So that's the good part.

And so it might not be quite as fast, or quite as easy... that's the bad part. But, oh well... whoever said life was fair? :sad: :mad:

I was talking with an endo once and wondered why... if hypothyroid slowed us and seemed to contribute to weight gain a bit, and hyperthyroid revved our metabolism and so many of those people were made so thin, couldn't we just give people more thyroid med to help them lose weight? :)

He said that had sure been looked into from every angle, but it didn't work that way. But it could sure cause a heart attack! :eek: :laugh:

So, anyway, work with your doc to get your medication to where you're feeling well overall, TSH low enough, FT4 and FT3 up where it keeps you feeling the most chipper and happy, and then JUDDD your head off to lose weight and increase your health and your happiness!

We're heading toward the end of this year. I think you can really be looking forward to 2012 and what that year is going to mean for you. Sometime in those months you're going to become slender and really healthy. Kinda' fun to know about that reality, isn't it! :laugh:

Seabreezes 11-13-2011 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo41 (Post 15171428)
I am hypothyroid (Hashimoto's), and I've been doing JUDDD for almost 3 years. My endo thinks this WOE is wonderful because it enables me to restrict calories so much, as I need to due to age and thyroid.

He checks me every 4 months, and since I have not needed any medication change, there doesn't seem to be any negative effects from JUDDD.

Keep in mind that limiting DDs to only 24 hours protects against any of the issues you've listed. It's been a while since I read the book, but I think Dr. J points out that it takes the body at least 48 hrs. to respond to dietary restrictions, etc., which is why DDs should never be consecutive.

Leo, thank you for commenting. I mentioned your name to Betty yesterday as I read all of your posts from the past on JUDDD before I started this way of eating. Miss your wisdom here, but know you are at goal. Hope all else is OK with you.

FremenChick 11-13-2011 07:19 PM

I have wondered about this myself. I read somewhere that up to 20% of thyroid hormone is actually produced in the digestive system. So if you are eating less you will of course produce less thyroid hormone. This is natural but if you are already low, this could of course be a problem. You may need to be more conservative with the fasting if you find you are having trouble adapting and/or you are having more hypo symptoms.

The best thing I did for my thyroid was eat a low to moderate-carb paleo diet. My blood profile is very good now and I don't take any more hormone medication (small doses give me heart palpitations). I have also been able to better handle fasting without feeling like hell. Introducing a bit more starchy-carb to my diet was helpful in that, I think.

E.W. 11-14-2011 12:20 AM

Here is a scientific article about flavaoinods and your thyroid. Flavaoinods are the antioxidents found in tea, coffee, fruits and vegitables. While the amount of these
subsitances found in natural foods may be healthy excess intake may realy do you
harm. In a similar respect it has been found that taking vitamine C and vitamine E
may kill some of the good that exercise does you. What was found is that if you engage
in an exercise program you lower your insulin resistance BUT if you take 1000mg of C and
400 iu of E and do an exercise program your insulin resistance DOES NOT show any inprovement. What the experiementers think may hapen is that the increase in free radicals during exercise may trigger the lowering of your insulin resistance and if you
take a bunch of vitamine E and C all these "bad" free radicals are gobbled up. So taking
a bunch of supliments may not be all that good after all.


Flavonoids and thyroid disease. [Biofactors. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

betty301 11-17-2011 06:32 AM

You probably all saw my post from yesterday about how my Thyroid appt went?? While I was there I noticed that there is a Dr. that is doing the study already called me back this morning and asked if I wanted to be a part of it.
He says that "he has prescribed Armour to his patients who reported that they felt much much better."
Uhh, I wonder if I can't just switch to him if he prescribes this stuff and skip this study???! huh, DING! I just thought of that.

So in this study you do a bunch of labs and answer a bunch of questions beforehand, then you take a medicine only you nor the Dr know which one it is, for 3 months..retest/answer more questions..then you SWITCH meds for three months.restest/answer more questions..
Then *I* get to pick which one makes me feel better.

But I'm going to email him back to see if he is accepting new patients instead!!

SoHappy 11-17-2011 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15183081)
You probably all saw my post from yesterday about how my Thyroid appt went?? While I was there I noticed that there is a Dr. that is doing the study already called me back this morning and asked if I wanted to be a part of it.
He says that "he has prescribed Armour to his patients who reported that they felt much much better."
Uhh, I wonder if I can't just switch to him if he prescribes this stuff and skip this study???! huh, DING! I just thought of that.

So in this study you do a bunch of labs and answer a bunch of questions beforehand, then you take a medicine only you nor the Dr know which one it is, for 3 months..retest/answer more questions..then you SWITCH meds for three months.restest/answer more questions..
Then *I* get to pick which one makes me feel better.

But I'm going to email him back to see if he is accepting new patients instead!!

Almost my whole family (females) seem to be hypothyroid. My daughter is on Armour and feels the best on it.

If he has any room to take on new patients, I'd make myself one. But if he doesn't, I'd be in that study so fast it would make heads swim. :laugh: It will really give all kinds of info on YOU, as well as a great chance to see how you do on the Armour, and not.

I just wish thyroid replacement was something that kicked in FAST, like ibuprofen or something, instead of taking so long to do it's thing.

This is a very exciting development!

betty301 11-17-2011 06:47 AM

ya, I've taken synthroid for a few years now and don't any feel better..only to have worse developing symptoms over the years.

I read so much about how Armour changes peoples lives!!! lol

All I want is the chance to see if I too could feel better. :)

And this may be it!:stars::high5::jumpjoy:

Star73 11-17-2011 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15183135)
ya, I've taken synthroid for a few years now and don't any feel better..only to have worse developing symptoms over the years.

I read so much about how Armour changes peoples lives!!! lol

All I want is the chance to see if I too could feel better. :)

And this may be it!:stars::high5::jumpjoy:

I'm on Synthroid and wonder if switching to Armour would be better for me. If you switch over I hope you let us know how you are doing! I know there is one doc here in town who prescribes it. I've thought about switching docs to him when my new insurance kicks in.

sophiethecat 11-17-2011 07:42 AM

This all sounds great, Betty, like you're finally going to get the help you need! :jumpjoy: :high5:

paulabob 11-17-2011 07:45 AM

I'm going to chime in that I read that change in the thyroid due to fasting/caloric restriction is supposed to be part of the change indicating the extended longevity and not necessarily something to be alarmed at. I know in Rosedale's book he mentioned reduced body morning body temperature as being a good thing (there must be some healthy level rather than the reduced temp of a completely tanked thyroid).

I will say that on a round of hcg - which is continuous modified fasting - I start getting absolutely frozen and chilly ALL the time about the 4th or 5th day in. On JUDDD I never have this problem, other than occasional cold hands.

SoHappy 11-17-2011 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15183135)
ya, I've taken synthroid for a few years now and don't any feel better..only to have worse developing symptoms over the years.

I read so much about how Armour changes peoples lives!!! lol

All I want is the chance to see if I too could feel better. :)

And this may be it!:stars::high5::jumpjoy:

It's worth a try. I don't think it changed daughter's life or anything quite that outstanding, LOL - but she did say she thought she felt a little better on Armour than on Synthroid. She said she wasn't as tired all the time. :up:If your symptoms are thyroid related/caused, giving your body the hormone it's low on should do the trick. Well, actually, it does for millions of women. Me included. :laugh: I've been on the Synthroid (or generic) for years and years. I'm praying that this would do the trick for you.

The most upsetting is when the symptoms being experienced are those that could certainly be triggered by low thyroid.... but aren't. And instead are the same symptoms, but caused by other imbalances or disturbances instead. Symptoms of low thyroid, but caused by other completely unrelated problems. etc. :sad: I'm also praying that this isn't a part of it in your case. :aprayer:

I'm also praying that JUDDD will be a HUGE help to your overall health, as the fasting plans are supposed to be a big help in so many areas. :aprayer:

betty301 11-17-2011 09:06 AM

Thanks Pat! well, it's a worth a shot..And this Dr wrote back and said he would be HAPPY to see me as a patient!!!

I'm still going to look into the other underlying issues though!!:high5:

Star- I guess it depends on how you feel on your current med. If your symptoms aren't bad and your values match how you feel then I think you would be ok.

How long have you been on synthroid?

SoHappy 11-17-2011 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15183578)
Thanks Pat! well, it's a worth a shot..And this Dr wrote back and said he would be HAPPY to see me as a patient!!!

I'm still going to look into the other underlying issues though!!:high5:

Star- I guess it depends on how you feel on your current med. If your symptoms aren't bad and your values match how you feel then I think you would be ok.

How long have you been on synthroid?

This has got to be one of the most exciting things to happen to you recently! Just knowing that he is open to Armour and prescribes it and will work with patients to get them optimized on it is exciting news. If thyroid balance is causing your symptoms, they should clear, and won't that be wonderful ! ! ! ! !

And if symptoms don't diminish, well then you'll know to keep looking. But either way, I'm so danged happy for you! :hugs:

FremenChick 11-17-2011 09:24 AM

Hi Betty. I hope your new treatment goes well. I have high hopes for you. I took Naturethroid for about a year, after being on levothyroxine for a few months. Initially it was pretty good and took care of my lingering symptoms (levothyroxine helped initially, as well). Slowly but surely, with diet and lifestyle changes, my thyroid problem somehow corrected itself and now I have no symptoms and don't take medication. Maybe I'm just one of the very few lucky ones, but at least there is hope. According to my Naturopath (big proponent of Paleo) this is not totally unusual. Apparently at least one of his patients was able to reduce her dosage drastically, and significantly improved.

Good luck.

Star73 11-17-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betty301 (Post 15183578)
Thanks Pat! well, it's a worth a shot..And this Dr wrote back and said he would be HAPPY to see me as a patient!!!

I'm still going to look into the other underlying issues though!!:high5:

Star- I guess it depends on how you feel on your current med. If your symptoms aren't bad and your values match how you feel then I think you would be ok.

How long have you been on synthroid?

I'm so happy for you! Let us know how it goes :)

I've been on Synthroid a little over a year now. My doc only checks a TSH when doing lab. This other doctor I may see knows the importance of checking the whole panel. He is a family doc but he also practices a little holistic medicine. I hope he will be in my new insurance network! I still have fatigue, but I'm better than I was. I still wonder about T3 though...

betty301 11-18-2011 05:22 AM

oh gosh, Star..the other Dr sounds way better than what you have now!!

Have you read on the sttm site??

Star73 11-18-2011 05:34 AM

Betty, I've never been to that site. I'm gonna go there and check it out. Thanks!


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