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Old 11-10-2011, 11:43 AM   #1
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Hey, I just thought I would throw this out as a possibility,
for anyone who is very nervous about "quitting" low-carb,
or is closer to a maintenance weight...
or has blood sugar issues,
or has higher nutrition needs, for any health reason...

This is something Dana Carpender (author of several LC cookbooks, blogger, etc)
is currently talking about, on her Facebook page.
She's having GREAT blood glucose readings, plus some steady weight loss.

So, if you're familiar with the Atkins Fat Fast, I think this is pretty easy to follow.

For myself, it's very hard to transition from (delicious!!!) high-fat foods like nuts, egg yolks, mayonnaise, butter, & cream cheese,
to low-calorie foods like glucomannan pudding, egg whites, and steamed veggies,
so I decided not to try this for the time being.
But if, down the road, I'm closer to my goal weight and need to stay LC, I'd consider something like this.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Hey, I just thought I would throw this out as a possibility,
for anyone who is very nervous about "quitting" low-carb,
or is closer to a maintenance weight...
or has blood sugar issues,
or has higher nutrition needs, for any health reason...

This is something Dana Carpender (author of several LC cookbooks, blogger, etc)
is currently talking about, on her Facebook page.
She's having GREAT blood glucose readings, plus some steady weight loss.

So, if you're familiar with the Atkins Fat Fast, I think this is pretty easy to follow.

For myself, it's very hard to transition from (delicious!!!) high-fat foods like nuts, egg yolks, mayonnaise, butter, & cream cheese,
to low-calorie foods like glucomannan pudding, egg whites, and steamed veggies,
so I decided not to try this for the time being.
But if, down the road, I'm closer to my goal weight and need to stay LC, I'd consider something like this.
I'm with you about the deliciousness of high fat foods like nuts, whole eggs, mayo and butter and cheeses! I wouldn't be interested in any plan where those foods couldn't be a part of my diet! But I also found I wasn't much enthralled with plans that excluded breads and potatoes and bowls of cereal and real cookies too. In other words. I'm very into having it all!

I do only a small amount of the low-calorie foods on my DDs, and make those days mostly just veggie days. Love, love, love my enormous stir fries, my huge salads, etc. Well, and usually a bowl of oatmeal. And sometimes sandwiches with my 40-cal bread. When you plan it right, 500 calories can be quite a bit of food! Pretty easy to stay within my fast and still have a real full tummy.

And then I spend the all of my UDs heavy in all the yummy foods that I've always loved. Low carb, high fat, high carb, whatever. Totally fine plan for sure!
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:20 PM   #3
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I have, for years, had a problem with the taste of fat free foods and really most low fat ones too. Often salad dressings taste like a mouthful of chemicals - although I have to admit never tried Waldens Farms. Light ones like Newmans Own are usually pretty good, though. FF sour cream and FF cheeses - same thing. I'd just rather not, thank you.

Oh yeah, and coffee....I drink diluted black on DD and put even a t of cream on UD. I try to stay away from FF stuff....not as nature intended!!

Anyway, all my life I've had a love affair with real butter and cheeses. I'd rather limit the amount and have the real stuff.
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:22 PM   #4
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Although, Laughing cow is tasty, even if it is light!!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2muchme View Post
I have, for years, had a problem with the taste of fat free foods and really most low fat ones too. Often salad dressings taste like a mouthful of chemicals - although I have to admit never tried Waldens Farms. Light ones like Newmans Own are usually pretty good, though. FF sour cream and FF cheeses - same thing. I'd just rather not, thank you.

Oh yeah, and coffee....I drink diluted black on DD and put even a t of cream on UD. I try to stay away from FF stuff....not as nature intended!!

Anyway, all my life I've had a love affair with real butter and cheeses. I'd rather limit the amount and have the real stuff.
And YAY for JUDDD! There are NO lists of foods you need to make use of. There are NO lists of foods whatsoever. You don't ever have to eat a food that you don't like again in your life if you don't want to! We're pretty much dairy fiends here and go through pounds of cheeses and pounds of butter and qallons of whole milk and creams every single month!

In fact, this is pretty much how I feel about substitute flours and sweeteners too! So when I fix my bowls of oatmeal, they almost always have brown sugar in them, although sometimes I use Walden Farms pancake syrup if my DD calories are getting really, really close to my limit! LOL And when I enjoy a bowl of cold cereal, like some crispy corn flakes with milk, I usually dump just plain white sugar over the top! Nope. It's not Splenda.

You can use as many substitute products as you want for low fat or alternate flour or artificial sugar..... or you can just use the real things. Our choice always! Once again, YAY for JUDDD! Woo Hoo!

(And, you know... I love that cheese too!)
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:38 PM   #6
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That's what if so great about this.....I'm so excited about JUDDD. Nothing is forbidden.....nothing. This is something I can live with. I LOVE THIS!!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Hey, I just thought I would throw this out as a possibility,
for anyone who is very nervous about "quitting" low-carb,
or is closer to a maintenance weight...
or has blood sugar issues,
or has higher nutrition needs, for any health reason...

This is something Dana Carpender (author of several LC cookbooks, blogger, etc)
is currently talking about, on her Facebook page.
She's having GREAT blood glucose readings, plus some steady weight loss.

So, if you're familiar with the Atkins Fat Fast, I think this is pretty easy to follow.

For myself, it's very hard to transition from (delicious!!!) high-fat foods like nuts, egg yolks, mayonnaise, butter, & cream cheese,
to low-calorie foods like glucomannan pudding, egg whites, and steamed veggies,
so I decided not to try this for the time being.
But if, down the road, I'm closer to my goal weight and need to stay LC, I'd consider something like this.
JUDDD is not a LC WOE, and even though many do bring their LC knowledge and use it to advantage with JUDDD I do not think a Fast of any kind should be part of the JUDDD WOE. We do a mini fast every other day and I just don't think we need to do anything else.

I am becoming a little concerned with the tweaks and suggestions, so many MDs, 24 hour fast with minimal calories or the "going to do as I think it should be done" way that things are going on our JUDDD thread.

Flame me if you want but JUDDD IS A SCIENCE and as such should be done as suggested. Sure, maybe a upward tweak of a few calories for those of us who were freaked by the low, low calories on our DDs, but that, to me, should be the only thing that maybe can be adjusted for the start of JUDDD, especially the first 2 weeks.

The plan works as written. Maybe it not working fast enough for some, maybe it's not working at all for some, but unless everyone coming into this WOE gives JUDDD at LEAST 2 weeks, doing it as suggested, they will never know if it's the plan for them or not.

Let's get back to the simplicity and "magic" of JUDDD. It REALLY WORKS when worked the way it is suggested and outlined.
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2muchme View Post
That's what if so great about this.....I'm so excited about JUDDD. Nothing is forbidden.....nothing. This is something I can live with. I LOVE THIS!!!


You have me laughing! And yup. JUDDD is just Easy Peasy. Find your correct calorie numbers. Respect your DD and your UD calorie ceilings. Do your fasting/feasting cycling plan, and..... go shopping for a new skinny wardrobe.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:06 PM   #9
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Find your correct calorie numbers. Respect your DD and your UD calorie ceilings.
When I do this, the system works without fail!
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeb View Post
I am becoming a little concerned with the tweaks and suggestions, so many MDs, 24 hour fast with minimal calories or the "going to do as I think it should be done" way that things are going on our JUDDD thread.

Flame me if you want but JUDDD IS A SCIENCE and as such should be done as suggested. Sure, maybe a upward tweak of a few calories for those of us who were freaked by the low, low calories on our DDs, but that, to me, should be the only thing that maybe can be adjusted for the start of JUDDD, especially the first 2 weeks.

The plan works as written. Maybe it not working fast enough for some, maybe it's not working at all for some, but unless everyone coming into this WOE gives JUDDD at LEAST 2 weeks, doing it as suggested, they will never know if it's the plan for them or not.

Let's get back to the simplicity and "magic" of JUDDD. It REALLY WORKS when worked the way it is suggested and outlined.
Fully understand that Linda - and obviously you (and others) have had great success! But I don't think it's fair to poo-poo everything people are talking about when some of the things being asked about ARE in the book.

And in many places he says "find what works for you". If MD's work for someone, that shouldn't be frowned upon as they are in the "way it's suggested". And so is fasting on DD's.

You all seem like a wonderful, supportive group of people and I look forward to chatting with all of you going forward.

Unfortunately I'm a very factual person, and have a hard time sitting on my hands when someone is mis-stating facts that are easily documented.

But I won't anymore - sorry.

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Old 11-10-2011, 03:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sandelio View Post
Fully understand that Linda - and obviously you (and others) have had great success! But I don't think it's fair to poo-poo everything people are talking about when some of the things being asked about ARE in the book.

And in many places he says "find what works for you". If MD's work for someone, that shouldn't be frowned upon as they are in the "way it's suggested". And so is fasting on DD's.

You all seem like a wonderful, supportive group of people and I look forward to chatting with all of you going forward.

Unfortunately I'm a very factual person, and have a hard time sitting on my hands when someone is mis-stating facts that are easily documented.

But I won't anymore - sorry.

No one, especially me, is asking you to "sit on your hands". This group is extremely supportive AND open minded, BUT when I notice things that will cause concern for a newbie, I too will not "sit on my hands".

I also would love to know why so many, who BTW have just started this WOE, have decided that MDs are OK? I don't remember reading this when I was learning how to do JUDDD. I know it's mentioned further on in the book about maintenance, but maybe I'm missing something and it IS in the "how to do JUDDD section"?

Please enlighten me, and if I'm wrong I will be the first to admit it!
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Hey, I just thought I would throw this out as a possibility,
for anyone who is very nervous about "quitting" low-carb,
or is closer to a maintenance weight...
or has blood sugar issues,
or has higher nutrition needs, for any health reason...

This is something Dana Carpender (author of several LC cookbooks, blogger, etc)
is currently talking about, on her Facebook page.
She's having GREAT blood glucose readings, plus some steady weight loss.

So, if you're familiar with the Atkins Fat Fast, I think this is pretty easy to follow.

For myself, it's very hard to transition from (delicious!!!) high-fat foods like nuts, egg yolks, mayonnaise, butter, & cream cheese,
to low-calorie foods like glucomannan pudding, egg whites, and steamed veggies,
so I decided not to try this for the time being.
But if, down the road, I'm closer to my goal weight and need to stay LC, I'd consider something like this.
Thanks, PJ, for the heads up

I also had a hard time transitioning at first to those low-cal foods of DD after eating all the fat on LC I am thinking I need more protein on DD, so I'm going to work that in and see if it helps.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:24 PM   #13
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Actually, some of the first (looooong - LOL!) threads here that I started reading mentioned the M-W-F down day plan. It sounded like that would work well with my schedule - so then I wasn't surprised to see it in the book when I read that a day or two LATER. It's in the Frequently Asked Questions at the back of the book...maybe that was added in newer releases????
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:34 PM   #14
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Actually, some of the first (looooong - LOL!) threads here that I started reading mentioned the M-W-F down day plan. It sounded like that would work well with my schedule - so then I wasn't surprised to see it in the book when I read that a day or two LATER. It's in the Frequently Asked Questions at the back of the book...maybe that was added in newer releases????
It's possible this is exactly where some of the confusion and different thought on the subject comes from. I just don't think MDs existed in the original plan. I wish I could remember who *invented* them, but I'm pretty sure that concept wasn't originally included. I keep thinking I remember Kevin Trudeau coming up with the idea in his diet plan.

And it may well be that Dr. J (a plastic surgeon, by the way LOL) added that concept to later printings of his book because the whole idea had become popular from this other plan and people where using MDs.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #15
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Actually, some of the first (looooong - LOL!) threads here that I started reading mentioned the M-W-F down day plan. It sounded like that would work well with my schedule - so then I wasn't surprised to see it in the book when I read that a day or two LATER. It's in the Frequently Asked Questions at the back of the book...maybe that was added in newer releases????
OK, that has answered my ? about where in the book this was stated. I was thinking you had read this in the "how to start" section and I was sure it wasn't in that section.

Yes, he does say that adding a MD in there, on like a Sunday, could work but he also says and I quote: "So if you are trying to lose weight on the Alternate Day Diet, you should exercise caution and keep an up to the minute food log to remain conscious of what you are eating. Another strategy would be to make Sunday an "in-between" day (MD) (here he is talking about people who want to have 2 UDs on the weekends), meaning that you restrict to some extent but eat more than you would on a regular DD. Some Alternate Day dieters have found that this works for them, while others have found that calculating in-between days calories just adds to their stress and therefore becomes counterproductive. It's a matter of knowing yourself and what works for you".

If Dr. J is saying "use caution" then I also think Newbies should be aware of this and that is the reason I'm concerned with the MDs being put in so soon on the start of this WOE.

BTW, copy right on my hard covered book is 2008, if that helps any so I think we are reading the same book.

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Old 11-10-2011, 05:55 PM   #16
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All right, I can't address all the issues that were raised about "tweaking" etc...
And by this comment, "I do not think a Fast of any kind should be part of the JUDDD WOE", perhaps not everyone is as familiar with the Fat Fast as I assumed.

The Fat Fast is about 1000 calories per day.
If your DDs are at about that calorie level, because of maintenance/exercise/nursing/whatever...
Then this is just a way to distribute the macronutrients.

Not, as far as I can see, a controversial "tweak".
Sorry for not explaining myself better in the OP.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:28 PM   #17
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All right, I can't address all the issues that were raised about "tweaking" etc...
And by this comment, "I do not think a Fast of any kind should be part of the JUDDD WOE", perhaps not everyone is as familiar with the Fat Fast as I assumed.

]The Fat Fast is about 1000 calories per day
If your DDs are at about that calorie level, because of maintenance/exercise/nursing/whatever...
Then this is just a way to distribute the macronutrients
.

Not, as far as I can see, a controversial "tweak".
Sorry for not explaining myself better in the OP.
THIS ^^^ makes sense and I can see how some may do OK with this. Thanks for explaining and sorry for the !
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:14 PM   #18
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Hey Linda...I totally respect you and to your success. As a user of the seemingly-controversial MD (though in looking back over the past 6 weeks, I've only actually done 2 of them ), I agree with you that the plan is the plan and there's a reason that it works. I personally don't see the problem with using a MD in order to make the plan do-able for some. (I find it easier to do 3 DDs during my work week when possible). It's the same reason that some people (you, too, if I remember), don't start with the recommended 500-calorie max on DDs during the first 2 weeks: it's to make the plan do-able if you don't think you can manage just 500 to start. It's not what the plan says, but if it's what you need to do in order to do the plan, then that's what you do.

I'm so totally not flaming you here. I get what you're saying about SO many tweaks that seem to be popping up and not "true" to the written plan, but I honestly don't think any of us on here can say that we are perfect or even purists. I mean, how many people hit their perfect numbers every single day, even? Does anyone? I dunno.

PJ: sorry for the TJ!!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #19
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Hey Linda...I totally respect you and to your success. As a user of the seemingly-controversial MD (though in looking back over the past 6 weeks, I've only actually done 2 of them ), I agree with you that the plan is the plan and there's a reason that it works. I personally don't see the problem with using a MD in order to make the plan do-able for some. (I find it easier to do 3 DDs during my work week when possible). It's the same reason that some people (you, too, if I remember), don't start with the recommended 500-calorie max on DDs during the first 2 weeks: it's to make the plan do-able if you don't think you can manage just 500 to start. It's not what the plan says, but if it's what you need to do in order to do the plan, then that's what you do.

I'm so totally not flaming you here. I get what you're saying about SO many tweaks that seem to be popping up and not "true" to the written plan, but I honestly don't think any of us on here can say that we are perfect or even purists. I mean, how many people hit their perfect numbers every single day, even? Does anyone? I dunno.

PJ: sorry for the TJ!!!
For the record my DD "tweak" wasn't a tweak at all but the % I started with to lose the last 6.6 pounds, at the time, I wanted to lose. At 45% for weight loss/maintenance, which I decided to start at, the numbers came in as 742 for DD and 1649 for UDs. SO, as you can see I actually lowered my DD calories to 700, not upped them to 700. I started at a higher percentage because it was "do-able" and I was only 6.6 pounds away from my then goal weight of 145 pounds. My point is and always will be, that this plan has a science behind it and those just starting on this WOE should at least give it a fighting chance, for the first 2 weeks at least, and see how the plan is designed to work, and that is my only reason for my concerns and questions.

Also sorry for the thread jack, PJ.

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Old 11-11-2011, 05:11 AM   #20
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. .... this plan has a science behind it and those just starting on this WOE should at least give it a fighting chance, for the first 2 weeks at least, and see how the plan is designed to work...
.
I totally agree.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
This is something Dana Carpender (author of several LC cookbooks, blogger, etc)
is currently talking about, on her Facebook page.
She's having GREAT blood glucose readings, plus some steady weight loss.

So, if you're familiar with the Atkins Fat Fast, I think this is pretty easy to follow.

For myself, it's very hard to transition from (delicious!!!) high-fat foods like nuts, egg yolks, mayonnaise, butter, & cream cheese,
to low-calorie foods like glucomannan pudding, egg whites, and steamed veggies,
so I decided not to try this for the time being.
But if, down the road, I'm closer to my goal weight and need to stay LC, I'd consider something like this.
Is she talking about doing JUDDD, only substituting a Fat Fast Day (1,000 calories, I'd assume) with an UD rather than doing the alternating UD/DD? In looking at her Facebook page, it looks like this to me.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:57 PM   #22
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She's not calling it JUDDD, she's calling it "calorie cycling", I believe.
And the Fat Fast Day is the DD, alternating with higher calorie "ad lib" days.

I just thought it might be an option for some people wanting/needing to do a LC version of JUDDD.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:58 PM   #23
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Rats. I don't *do* Facebook, so can't see Ms. Carpender's page.

I guess I can't figure out how I'd make use of this. I could do 500 calories of a fat fast on a Down Day, or I could maybe do the 1000 calories of it along with another 1000 calories of other food combined with it to make up my UD, but then I think.... why would I?

I don't have to eat like that anymore. I get to eat food now. And I so appreciate it. It's like I'm finally free and don't have to fight the battle anymore. I just do JUDDD and relax.

Like I said, without being able to see her facebook page, I can't understand any of this at all. I'm not understanding how it would remotely be *a JUDDD thing*.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
She's not calling it JUDDD, she's calling it "calorie cycling", I believe.
And the Fat Fast Day is the DD, alternating with higher calorie "ad lib" days.

I just thought it might be an option for some people wanting/needing to do a LC version of JUDDD.
Thanks for your reply...now it's making sense to me!
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
I can't understand any of this at all. I'm not understanding how it would remotely be *a JUDDD thing*.
I didn't say it was a "JUDDD thing".
I meant it as a suggestion for people who are very nervous about the 500 calorie days,
or about reintroducing carbs into their diet, or who have diabetes.

On the other hand,
a "fat fast" is about 1000 calories, at about 90% fat.
Some people might have 1000 calories on their DDs.
So, it could be a JUDDD thing, right?

Last edited by piratejenny; 11-11-2011 at 08:04 PM.. Reason: add quote
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I didn't say it was a "JUDDD thing".
I meant it as a suggestion for people who are very nervous about the 500 calorie days,
or about reintroducing carbs into their diet, or who have diabetes.

On the other hand,
a "fat fast" is about 1000 calories, at about 90% fat.
Some people might have 1000 calories on their DDs.
So, it could be a JUDDD thing, right?
LOL No wonder I couldn't figure this out. No, I was reading shirlc mention of UD/DD etc. and got even more confused.

Well, there are certainly a lot of calorie cycling plans out there, so this would probably fit in for at least some of them. Although, I still can't think I'd want to do that as opposed to just eating food! I mean, one of the big reasons I came to JUDDD was because I finally just got so fed up with having food lists, or doing strange things like *fat fasts*. I just wanted to eat pretty much normal food. Kinda' well, whatever I wanted. But, that sure wouldn't ever include a fat fast. Although, maybe I would consider cheese cake.

As to some people having 1000 calorie DDs if they were on JUDDD, I think they'd really be calorie burners to manage that. But maybe. The Down Day calories are figured at from 20% up to 35% of Up Day calories, so if somebody was eating at 1000 calories on their DD, that would then equate to UDs in the vicinity of 2900 to 5000 calories! Not many of us could pull that off. Like I said, I think to have 1000 calorie DDs on JUDDD, the person would really have to be a calorie burner, but then if they were, they'd probably have no need for any diet anyway.

Possibly somebody on JUDDD could have 1000 calorie DDs when they were in maintenance and were then having 2000 calorie UDs along with it, for example. But then, I don't think they'd be especially wanting to do a fat fast for a DD anyway. They'd probably be pretty much into just maintaining their weight by enjoying eating regular nice meals. But I guess if they wanted to do a fat fast (?) they could.

Last edited by SoHappy; 11-11-2011 at 08:26 PM..
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