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Old 11-08-2011, 08:31 AM   #1
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What I Got From the BOOK...

I read the Alternate Day Diet last night and had an awakening into what I was actually doing on this WOE...his recommendations are HUGE in getting us prepared for what this has in store for us...I know some people tweak it and make it work what's best for them, but I really think he has some good points...

1- You are supposed to be on meal replacement shakes for the first 2 weeks of Induction on JUDDD- this is so that you don't have to THINK about what to eat to keep those calories LOW - they should be LOW in the beginning and we tend to lie to ourselves about how much of what we are actually eating...it takes the guesswork out of it all and really gets you in CONTROL over what you put in your mouth. When you eat on those DD's you have to be vigilent in making sure your calories are LOW...be honest with yourself about exactly how much you're eating. I know some people have this down, but I don't and don't think I ever will

I don't know about you, but I hate counting calories and hate measuring and hate the whole idea of thinking about what goes in my mouth...LOL...but that fact has me overweight...bottom line.

He recommends not drinking the shakes all at once, but sipping them throughout the day when you feel hungry...this way it seems like you're taking in calories all day long.

He also says that hunger pangs only last 20-25 minutes and that if you get hungry and just WAIT...it will pass....we really have no clue what it means to be hungry...we're just conditioned to eat as soon as we feel the need, see food, smell food...think of food...but we're not really "hungry" at all.

2- Exercise is never forbidden. - we should be moving for our health and the bottom line is it assists in weight loss in the correct amounts...no point in doing 2 hours of cardio, but there are benefits in a good cardio/weight training routine....get moving.

3- LC and JUDDD do not really mix...granted the food can be controlled using the LC, but did you know that JUDDD causes ketosis too? I stay LC because I know myself enough to know I can't really control the carbs...I won't just eat a plate of spagetti...I'll eat 2-3 plates...this is why I'm avoiding going overboard with the carb counts...but here's something to consider...LC taught me what I can and can't eat to gain or lose weight...JUDDD is going to teach me what I can and can't eat to be HEALTHY...not just thinner. It's in the CALORIES - not the CARBS - I know, I know...us diehard LCer's cringe at that....but we have to decide what's going to help us most- there is no benefit in the refined carbs (white bread/rice...etc), but we should let go of our fear of Fruit and higher carb veggies for this plan to work long term....and trust me...I'm still trying to embrace that idea myself.....

Had soup with carrots and potatoes in it last night and stared at every carrot that went in my mouth like it was gonna kill me Get over it

4- There is no necessary caloric intake on UD's! WHAT? When I read that, I was just amazed...we can literally eat what we want...we will most likely NOT overeat - he explained it in detail, but I won't go all into that. He said some people do restrict on UD's out of habit, but it's not necessary, nor is it necessary to meet the UD limit...the magic in the plan is in the DD's and keeping those calories as low as possible. It is necessary to not feel deprived, to eat until satisfied without overeating - this is so we can STAY ON THE PLAN!

5- His plan is supposed to be a way of life, so you have to make those DD calories something you can live with forever, and he admits most will not make it at 500 a day...but you can get up to 50% of your regular intake and still maintain....for losing, you obviously want to go lower, but it won't be this painful forever...LOL!

These are just a few things I took away from the book...it's the control I'm after, the need to never DIET again...and I'm sure with this plan it will be possible to be both healthy, slim, and happy!
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:52 AM   #2
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Great post. This is what I wonder though.. do we HAVE to eat on DD's? I'm in my 48th hour of a water fast right now, I've never had any problem not eating for days at a time. When I "officially" start JUDDD on Sunday, I'm going to do an UD, but on Monday, my first DD, do I HAVE to eat? Is a 0 calorie DD more or less beneficial than the 316 cal DD that's recommended for me?
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:00 AM   #3
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Thanks for the post Nik Nik. I've been on several threads this week trying to figure out what's going on w/me. I ate wayyyy over on my UDs my first week of JUDDD and stayed at 500-600 on DDs and lost 4.5 lbs. Haven't lost anything since. I'm now on my 4th week. Everyone is telling me I prob am eating too much on my UDs, so I'm using the calculations on Dr. J's calculator on his website for a bit, and see if I get any results this week.
THANKS AGAIN!
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzcase View Post
Great post. This is what I wonder though.. do we HAVE to eat on DD's? I'm in my 48th hour of a water fast right now, I've never had any problem not eating for days at a time. When I "officially" start JUDDD on Sunday, I'm going to do an UD, but on Monday, my first DD, do I HAVE to eat? Is a 0 calorie DD more or less beneficial than the 316 cal DD that's recommended for me?
He actually did say it was better not to eat on those days...the reason he doesn't recommend it is because it won't last long term for most people, it's not just reasonable to stick to for the average person...but the study was done on animals who were ONLY fed every other day...
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:24 AM   #5
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Thanks for the info Nik Nik!
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #6
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Great summary! Thanks for taking the time to offer it :-)
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:33 AM   #7
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Nik - Awesome post, thank you sooooooooooo much!!! Your info is great! I'm going to download the book tonight, I'm doing ok so far eating this way but I'd like the inside information.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsam1156 View Post
Thanks for the post Nik Nik. I've been on several threads this week trying to figure out what's going on w/me. I ate wayyyy over on my UDs my first week of JUDDD and stayed at 500-600 on DDs and lost 4.5 lbs. Haven't lost anything since. I'm now on my 4th week. Everyone is telling me I prob am eating too much on my UDs, so I'm using the calculations on Dr. J's calculator on his website for a bit, and see if I get any results this week.
THANKS AGAIN!
It's so funny you say this...he actually says in the book that most people hit a plateau when they get comfortable with the program...fudging servings and things and if you actually wrote down every single thing you eat....I bet you'd see that your DD calories are much higher than you think they are...which is why you stop losing. Get back to making sure you're in that range and I bet the scale starts moving again...

Now I'm no expert...I literally just read the book last night...but it puts everything into perspective...understanding WHY something works makes it so much easier to stick to.

He also said something which hit a nerve " EVERY diet plan will work as long as you are committed to it" this is why I lost weight on LC before...I stuck to it...why some lost on WW - they stick to it...but the weight comes back because we can't stay there long term...the odds are just stacked against us thanks to our DNA and society forcing food down our throats every chance it gets....we can say no, we can control our weight...we just have to find the right balance...
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:23 AM   #9
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:44 AM   #10
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He says it's not necessary to meet the UD requirement, but honestly if you just eat low calorie every day, what makes this plan any different than pretty much any other low calorie plan?
And I know he says not to low-carb, but I disagree with him here on the principal that not everyone responds to certain carbs the same way.
I read about half the book but found the "real life" info on here better lol
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:07 AM   #11
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Thanks for taking the time to post highlights from the book. Understanding the science behind this WOE helps.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik Nik View Post
I read the Alternate Day Diet last night and had an awakening into what I was actually doing on this WOE...his recommendations are HUGE in getting us prepared for what this has in store for us...I know some people tweak it and make it work what's best for them, but I really think he has some good points...

1- You are supposed to be on meal replacement shakes for the first 2 weeks of Induction on JUDDD- this is so that you don't have to THINK about what to eat to keep those calories LOW - they should be LOW in the beginning and we tend to lie to ourselves about how much of what we are actually eating...it takes the guesswork out of it all and really gets you in CONTROL over what you put in your mouth. When you eat on those DD's you have to be vigilent in making sure your calories are LOW...be honest with yourself about exactly how much you're eating. I know some people have this down, but I don't and don't think I ever will

I don't know about you, but I hate counting calories and hate measuring and hate the whole idea of thinking about what goes in my mouth...LOL...but that fact has me overweight...bottom line.

He recommends not drinking the shakes all at once, but sipping them throughout the day when you feel hungry...this way it seems like you're taking in calories all day long.

He also says that hunger pangs only last 20-25 minutes and that if you get hungry and just WAIT...it will pass....we really have no clue what it means to be hungry...we're just conditioned to eat as soon as we feel the need, see food, smell food...think of food...but we're not really "hungry" at all.

2- Exercise is never forbidden. - we should be moving for our health and the bottom line is it assists in weight loss in the correct amounts...no point in doing 2 hours of cardio, but there are benefits in a good cardio/weight training routine....get moving.

3- LC and JUDDD do not really mix...granted the food can be controlled using the LC, but did you know that JUDDD causes ketosis too? I stay LC because I know myself enough to know I can't really control the carbs...I won't just eat a plate of spagetti...I'll eat 2-3 plates...this is why I'm avoiding going overboard with the carb counts...but here's something to consider...LC taught me what I can and can't eat to gain or lose weight...JUDDD is going to teach me what I can and can't eat to be HEALTHY...not just thinner. It's in the CALORIES - not the CARBS - I know, I know...us diehard LCer's cringe at that....but we have to decide what's going to help us most- there is no benefit in the refined carbs (white bread/rice...etc), but we should let go of our fear of Fruit and higher carb veggies for this plan to work long term....and trust me...I'm still trying to embrace that idea myself.....

Had soup with carrots and potatoes in it last night and stared at every carrot that went in my mouth like it was gonna kill me Get over it

4- There is no necessary caloric intake on UD's! WHAT? When I read that, I was just amazed...we can literally eat what we want...we will most likely NOT overeat - he explained it in detail, but I won't go all into that. He said some people do restrict on UD's out of habit, but it's not necessary, nor is it necessary to meet the UD limit...the magic in the plan is in the DD's and keeping those calories as low as possible. It is necessary to not feel deprived, to eat until satisfied without overeating - this is so we can STAY ON THE PLAN!

5- His plan is supposed to be a way of life, so you have to make those DD calories something you can live with forever, and he admits most will not make it at 500 a day...but you can get up to 50% of your regular intake and still maintain....for losing, you obviously want to go lower, but it won't be this painful forever...LOL!

These are just a few things I took away from the book...it's the control I'm after, the need to never DIET again...and I'm sure with this plan it will be possible to be both healthy, slim, and happy!

I glad you posted this Nik Nik, because it is so true that the more people who flock to a diet, the more ways people are going to interpret the rules, alter the rules, deviate from the core of the plan. And when that happens, advice being offered is going to differ more and more from the initial thought, and.. unhappily, the way people follow the plan will range farther from the core concept.

And that's when you notice that instead of reading posts all the time about the many pounds of fat weight that people are losing, which is what we always used to read here, and how nothing has worked until now but JUDDD is magic and weight loss has resumed wonderfully, you begin to read that it's not working, and that's such a difference from how it used to be. So something has changed. And that's usually how people are following the plan.

So while the JUDDD plan calls for holding Down Days to 500 calories (or fewer) to begin with, we do tell people that if they can't hold that low to start with, it's a better choice to start a bit higher and work back down to 500 calories than it is to quit the plan. But..... do these people actually work themselves down to 500 or fewer calories, or do they take this as permission to not really do Down Days at that low calorie level? And then, a diet that is intended to include a fasting level of calories (or no calories) on alternate days, is now including way too many calories every day.

So I still say rather than quit the plan, if you can't hold to 500 calories or fewer right off the bat, start a bit higher and work yourself down to that 500 level. But do it. That's the plan.

And as to the shakes, most of us don't use them and eat food instead. Dr. Johnson even said they were recommended only for the sake of convenience and "to take the guesswork out of estimating how many calories you are consuming." Most people don't have a hard time weighing and measuring food and getting accurate calorie counts on it. So most of us who have been here awhile, found that relying on the shakes made sticking to 500 calorie level DDs a great deal more difficult as we were more than hungry in the beginning, but if we truly did calorie counting, we were completely successful on the novel idea of..... food. In other words, shakes or solid food.. it doesn't matter much. What matters is that calorie number!

The point is, the level is 500 calories. Or less. Regardless of what you choose to eat, it's probably best to respect that number. The further above that calorie number you let yourself ride on Down Days, the further you are from the core concept of having Down Days be fasting days. And the closer you work yourself up to having every day be in effect, a *feeding day*.


You mentioned that you hated to weigh and measure and count calories. But, that attitude of not wanting to exert this attention and control over your food intake is what has got you overweight. And I agree with you so very much. That was well put. Very often, we fat people don't want to have to restrict our eating much, and we consider any extra work along those lines as too bothersome, too inhibiting, just too much work. And so, we don't join the world of the people who get to enjoy life in their slim bodies. Because.. it's too much work.

The more experienced you become, the further you come successfully, and the less *right at the very edge* you are living to your *calorie tipping* number, the more you may be okay in not counting calories. But if you aren't actually weighing and measuring and counting..... and you aren't losing weight..... I don't quite know how to point it out to you much more clearly that you are receiving pretty much the exact results of your effort.

And, yes, appetite begins to normalize and moderate after you've been on JUDDD for awhile, a short while usually, and it's pretty amazing how quickly you get a feeling of true enjoyment from doing your fasting days. And how soon you come to realize that you don't have to stuff food into your mouth every time you feel a twinge of hunger. And how nice a sleek, flat, empty gut feels. And how remarkable it is that you have come to a place where you don't feel much hunger on Down Days, AND you aren't any more hungry on an Up Day than you would normally be. How quickly your brain adapts your appetites to this JUDDD schedule.

And yes, exercise is a good thing. Some people like to exercise on their UDs as they feel they are better fueled for a good workout. Others are enjoying doing their exercise on DDs, working the new concept of *fasted workouts*, to require their body's to pull fat
for fuel during exercise, and then they eat a bit of protein afterward to help their body rebuild depleted muscle. But regardless of which days you prefer for exercise, it's always recommended for us.

I think saying that low carb and JUDDD do not mix is not quite how I would put it. If people prefer to remain *low carb*, they can find success in this way of moderating their calorie intake, but then again.. how low is low? Most seem to be quite happy to do their low carbing a lot closer to the carb levels Dr. Atkins advocated for his followers to climb to when following his concept of low carb eating, and that certainly included many of the higher carb foods that dieters initially avoid. Arriving at a moderate carb level seems to be the most successful *sweet spot* for a lot of JUDDD followers here.

The nicest seems to be when folks just relax about it all and enjoy an immense variety of foods. And for many on this site, who have come from eating quite low carb and thus, have been quite depleted in *water weight*, that usually means there will be some regain of that shed water weight once the companion carbs are reintroduced into the diet. I've never quite understood our panic and abhorrence at the thought of having some water weight stored in our muscle fibers and livers? Yeah, we sure want to have our excess FAT melt away, but why the insistence of being depleted of water weight as well? Are we that obsessed with the number on the dial of a scale? Really?

As to the not counting the UD calories..... here is where I'm a total and firm believer that most folks will destroy their hopes of success on this plan if they follow that advice. I know Dr. Johnson says followers can eat as they desire on their UDs, free of having to watch quantities, relieved of the need to weigh and measure and do any calorie counting. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that always worked for all of us? But most of the fat people I've known could very easily overeat on calories in one day to the extent that it could easily wipe out and totally negate the value of a good previous Down Day of low calories. Some of us just can't eat that many calories, period. So a nice uncounted Up Day can do us in, sink us, ruin us, make JUDDD fail for us.

But I admit that not counting on UDs can work for a few lucky folks. I've read on other JUDDD forums besides this one, and most of them also advocate the *don't worry about the calories on UDs.. eat freely and relax*..... and here's what I noticed on those other sites..... they don't have remotely the numbers of people reporting really good weight loss success. They don't have nearly the pounds melting away for their members.

Truly, I firmly believe this is the area of the JUDDD plan where people need to be true to themselves, and if they aren't a *controlled eater*, they'd better ignore this little piece of sweet-sounding allowance and admit to themselves that they probably didn't get here in the first place by being reliable when it came to moderating their calorie intake all by themselves! There's a reason most of us are here, and it's because we overeat when left to our own impulses. And sometimes, that isn't a huge amount of food.. It's just that we can't process the greater number of calories some others can with ease. So, the amount we can eat without gaining weight can certainly vary among us, but most of us aren't very good at holding the line all the time if we're given permission to eat every other day without having to account for the quantity of it in any way. Bad advice for most of us!

And, unhappily, folks who follow this advice, as I see on many other sites, aren't nearly as successful as we have been here..... by counting calories on Up Days! Telling fat people that they can eat at will every other day and it will all be smoothed over by low calories on DDs, is misleading an awful lot of us, giving us hope for an easy way out, an easy weight loss that simply is not going to happen for for many of us that way. Wish it would.

I guess I should say, if you don't have to count calories on your UDs, and you can still get slim, I applaud you, I envy you, and I'm really, really happy for you. But if you don't lose weight, it might be a good idea to reassess how you're working this calorie cycling plan, and it might be time for you to reassess your freedom to *eat at will* on your UDs.

Like I said, the more people who flock to a certain way of dieting, the more ways people interpret and alter the original plan, which is understandable. I just think that the more we deviate from the plan by not holding to fasting level on DDs, the less likely the plan will give us the hoped for weight loss.

And that UD calorie number the calculator gave you? Well, the less you consider that a very important number, the less you respect that number, and the more you overeat that number, I believe the less likely you will be to find much success on this plan. Despite how much we'd love to follow his light permission to eat however we want to on UDs.

There can be extenuating circumstances when folks don't lose weight, but not respecting your calorie numbers on JUDDD is one of the big ones, and that applies to your Up Days calorie consumption as well as that fasting calorie number on your DDs!

I'm 68 years old, hypothyroid and a few other little problems, and I was obese. I can vouch for the worth of calorie cycling plans and of this JUDDD plan, but I can pretty much assure anyone that regardless of even reasonably good Down Days, if you overeat on Up Days, you will fail.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik Nik View Post
It's so funny you say this...he actually says in the book that most people hit a plateau when they get comfortable with the program...fudging servings and things and if you actually wrote down every single thing you eat....I bet you'd see that your DD calories are much higher than you think they are...which is why you stop losing. Get back to making sure you're in that range and I bet the scale starts moving again...

Now I'm no expert...I literally just read the book last night...but it puts everything into perspective...understanding WHY something works makes it so much easier to stick to.

He also said something which hit a nerve " EVERY diet plan will work as long as you are committed to it" this is why I lost weight on LC before...I stuck to it...why some lost on WW - they stick to it...but the weight comes back because we can't stay there long term...the odds are just stacked against us thanks to our DNA and society forcing food down our throats every chance it gets....we can say no, we can control our weight...we just have to find the right balance...
Here we definitely see this to be true. Those who actually use a food scale and measuring spoons and measuring cups and do the work and track the calories on their food logs, etc..... They are the ones who come back to report week after week after week, more and more weight loss!

It would be lovely if we were film stars and had a staff preparing our meals at various calorie levels for us. We'd become sleek, and somebody else would be in charge of having to do the measuring and the figuring. LOL

But.. it's on our shoulders instead. Luckily, for a lot of stuff, once you've done it a time or two, there is little to do from then on. You get to the point where you know how much to measure out, what those calories will be.. because they are one of your *regular* choices.

The successful people usually do what it takes. The exciting thing about JUDDD is that it's truly so easy that most anybody can be successful. This is really a plan that can get you skinny if you do the small required effort behind it, and that's just doing what it takes to track your calories.

If folks really do respect and adhere to their DD and their UD calorie numbers, they will get slim!
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:28 AM   #14
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Also, about not eating on DD - you don't have to if you don't want to. I intend to stay at 500 calories or below as much as possible on DD even though I can go higher if I want. The reason is - I'm starting to love how I feel on DD. After so many hours of no or very low calories, I start to feel GOOD on all levels. So if you can fast totally on DD, that's great. I may never completely fast because I have the issue of not sleeping well if I don't get enough to eat before bed, but I mostly try to hold those calories low as I can on DD.
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MAINTENANCE since 11/12/11, & have lost more weight. I shake things up all the time with my version of Pirate Jenny's MUDDD, my "Fast 5" & other IF. ...low-moderate fat....and eating "healthy" foods 75+% of the time which lets me have real life and indulgences too I've reached my goals, improved my health & appearance, and enjoy my lifetime woe!

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Old 11-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #15
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Oh, I love reading summaries of books. I am not done reading my copy from the library yet so this is wonderful!!!!! Thank you so much for sharing what you got out of it!!
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
I glad you posted this Nik Nik, because it is so true that the more people who flock to a diet, the more ways people are going to interpret the rules, alter the rules, deviate from the core of the plan. And when that happens, advice being offered is going to differ more and more from the initial thought, and.. unhappily, the way people follow the plan will range farther from the core concept.

And that's when you notice that instead of reading posts all the time about the many pounds of fat weight that people are losing, which is what we always used to read here, and how nothing has worked until now but JUDDD is magic and weight loss has resumed wonderfully, you begin to read that it's not working, and that's such a difference from how it used to be. So something has changed. And that's usually how people are following the plan.

So while the JUDDD plan calls for holding Down Days to 500 calories (or fewer) to begin with, we do tell people that if they can't hold that low to start with, it's a better choice to start a bit higher and work back down to 500 calories than it is to quit the plan. But..... do these people actually work themselves down to 500 or fewer calories, or do they take this as permission to not really do Down Days at that low calorie level? And then, a diet that is intended to include a fasting level of calories (or no calories) on alternate days, is now including way too many calories every day.

So I still say rather than quit the plan, if you can't hold to 500 calories or fewer right off the bat, start a bit higher and work yourself down to that 500 level. But do it. That's the plan.

And as to the shakes, most of us don't use them and eat food instead. Dr. Johnson even said they were recommended only for the sake of convenience and "to take the guesswork out of estimating how many calories you are consuming." Most people don't have a hard time weighing and measuring food and getting accurate calorie counts on it. So most of us who have been here awhile, found that relying on the shakes made sticking to 500 calorie level DDs a great deal more difficult as we were more than hungry in the beginning, but if we truly did calorie counting, we were completely successful on the novel idea of..... food. In other words, shakes or solid food.. it doesn't matter much. What matters is that calorie number!

The point is, the level is 500 calories. Or less. Regardless of what you choose to eat, it's probably best to respect that number. The further above that calorie number you let yourself ride on Down Days, the further you are from the core concept of having Down Days be fasting days. And the closer you work yourself up to having every day be in effect, a *feeding day*.


You mentioned that you hated to weigh and measure and count calories. But, that attitude of not wanting to exert this attention and control over your food intake is what has got you overweight. And I agree with you so very much. That was well put. Very often, we fat people don't want to have to restrict our eating much, and we consider any extra work along those lines as too bothersome, too inhibiting, just too much work. And so, we don't join the world of the people who get to enjoy life in their slim bodies. Because.. it's too much work.

The more experienced you become, the further you come successfully, and the less *right at the very edge* you are living to your *calorie tipping* number, the more you may be okay in not counting calories. But if you aren't actually weighing and measuring and counting..... and you aren't losing weight..... I don't quite know how to point it out to you much more clearly that you are receiving pretty much the exact results of your effort.

And, yes, appetite begins to normalize and moderate after you've been on JUDDD for awhile, a short while usually, and it's pretty amazing how quickly you get a feeling of true enjoyment from doing your fasting days. And how soon you come to realize that you don't have to stuff food into your mouth every time you feel a twinge of hunger. And how nice a sleek, flat, empty gut feels. And how remarkable it is that you have come to a place where you don't feel much hunger on Down Days, AND you aren't any more hungry on an Up Day than you would normally be. How quickly your brain adapts your appetites to this JUDDD schedule.

And yes, exercise is a good thing. Some people like to exercise on their UDs as they feel they are better fueled for a good workout. Others are enjoying doing their exercise on DDs, working the new concept of *fasted workouts*, to require their body's to pull fat
for fuel during exercise, and then they eat a bit of protein afterward to help their body rebuild depleted muscle. But regardless of which days you prefer for exercise, it's always recommended for us.

I think saying that low carb and JUDDD do not mix is not quite how I would put it. If people prefer to remain *low carb*, they can find success in this way of moderating their calorie intake, but then again.. how low is low? Most seem to be quite happy to do their low carbing a lot closer to the carb levels Dr. Atkins advocated for his followers to climb to when following his concept of low carb eating, and that certainly included many of the higher carb foods that dieters initially avoid. Arriving at a moderate carb level seems to be the most successful *sweet spot* for a lot of JUDDD followers here.

The nicest seems to be when folks just relax about it all and enjoy an immense variety of foods. And for many on this site, who have come from eating quite low carb and thus, have been quite depleted in *water weight*, that usually means there will be some regain of that shed water weight once the companion carbs are reintroduced into the diet. I've never quite understood our panic and abhorrence at the thought of having some water weight stored in our muscle fibers and livers? Yeah, we sure want to have our excess FAT melt away, but why the insistence of being depleted of water weight as well? Are we that obsessed with the number on the dial of a scale? Really?

As to the not counting the UD calories..... here is where I'm a total and firm believer that most folks will destroy their hopes of success on this plan if they follow that advice. I know Dr. Johnson says followers can eat as they desire on their UDs, free of having to watch quantities, relieved of the need to weigh and measure and do any calorie counting. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that always worked for all of us? But most of the fat people I've known could very easily overeat on calories in one day to the extent that it could easily wipe out and totally negate the value of a good previous Down Day of low calories. Some of us just can't eat that many calories, period. So a nice uncounted Up Day can do us in, sink us, ruin us, make JUDDD fail for us.

But I admit that not counting on UDs can work for a few lucky folks. I've read on other JUDDD forums besides this one, and most of them also advocate the *don't worry about the calories on UDs.. eat freely and relax*..... and here's what I noticed on those other sites..... they don't have remotely the numbers of people reporting really good weight loss success. They don't have nearly the pounds melting away for their members.

Truly, I firmly believe this is the area of the JUDDD plan where people need to be true to themselves, and if they aren't a *controlled eater*, they'd better ignore this little piece of sweet-sounding allowance and admit to themselves that they probably didn't get here in the first place by being reliable when it came to moderating their calorie intake all by themselves! There's a reason most of us are here, and it's because we overeat when left to our own impulses. And sometimes, that isn't a huge amount of food.. It's just that we can't process the greater number of calories some others can with ease. So, the amount we can eat without gaining weight can certainly vary among us, but most of us aren't very good at holding the line all the time if we're given permission to eat every other day without having to account for the quantity of it in any way. Bad advice for most of us!

And, unhappily, folks who follow this advice, as I see on many other sites, aren't nearly as successful as we have been here..... by counting calories on Up Days! Telling fat people that they can eat at will every other day and it will all be smoothed over by low calories on DDs, is misleading an awful lot of us, giving us hope for an easy way out, an easy weight loss that simply is not going to happen for for many of us that way. Wish it would.

I guess I should say, if you don't have to count calories on your UDs, and you can still get slim, I applaud you, I envy you, and I'm really, really happy for you. But if you don't lose weight, it might be a good idea to reassess how you're working this calorie cycling plan, and it might be time for you to reassess your freedom to *eat at will* on your UDs.

Like I said, the more people who flock to a certain way of dieting, the more ways people interpret and alter the original plan, which is understandable. I just think that the more we deviate from the plan by not holding to fasting level on DDs, the less likely the plan will give us the hoped for weight loss.

And that UD calorie number the calculator gave you? Well, the less you consider that a very important number, the less you respect that number, and the more you overeat that number, I believe the less likely you will be to find much success on this plan. Despite how much we'd love to follow his light permission to eat however we want to on UDs.

There can be extenuating circumstances when folks don't lose weight, but not respecting your calorie numbers on JUDDD is one of the big ones, and that applies to your Up Days calorie consumption as well as that fasting calorie number on your DDs!

I'm 68 years old, hypothyroid and a few other little problems, and I was obese. I can vouch for the worth of calorie cycling plans and of this JUDDD plan, but I can pretty much assure anyone that regardless of even reasonably good Down Days, if you overeat on Up Days, you will fail.
Yes Pat, you're right on so many things...and I read his interpretation of the "eat what you want" thing without renigging on the fact that he said you can eat what you want....

The way I read it, it seems that making better food choices should be the main goal...period...on both UD's and DD's...this is supposed to help with the overeating factor and overdoing the calorie limit on the UD's. But he advocates eating highly nutritious foods and NOT JUNK....it won't make much sense to fast one day and the pig out on a whole Pizza with Subs the next day...and I believe if I'm correct...when you see results, this should help deter anyone from doing so.

Trust me...many a friend has seen results and still ate that whole bag of cookies because they could...but you have to keep in mind, that he made this a life plan, knowing that we are not perfect...but the idea is to be good more often than not...and the health benefits of this WOE is beneficial whether you're losing weight or not.

I am also hesitant to give up the LC WOE along with this....I eat this way naturally..meat eater for life!! But using LC also forces me to eat my veggies, which I wouldn't do otherwise unless it was on top of a sub sandwich

I didn't agree with everything in the book...authors of other diet plans tend to have their facts miscontrued when it comes to LC, so I just take that to mean LC the "right" way...you have to have your veggies, you can't just live on meat, cheese, and pork rinds for the rest of your life...

He says denying ourselves things makes the want stronger and the chance of failure much higher...which is why those on Slim Fast can lose the weight, but staying on shakes every day for the rest of your life is not practical for most or any other diet for that matter.

I wish I was one of the lucky ones to eat whatever I want whenever I want, but I'm not, otherwise I wouldn't be here....but the freedom that comes with knowing that with moderation I can have what I want, makes this something I can deal with for the rest of my life..

I love the DD's...I know that I'm doing something to better myself and the way I see food....I probably won't do much calorie counting on the UD's just because I, personally, don't eat that much...but I know this isn't the case for everyone, but the stress has to be removed from this WOE for it to work.

Some people enjoy the counting and measuring...this stresses me out and I know I just won't be able to do it for long...but if I can learn what to eat...how many calories certain foods have...and make sure I'm eating foods that are good for me...then I can stick with it...and being LC is that WOE for me...so the combination works well for me, but I know some people that "need" that fruit, they "need" that bread...and the JUDDD can still work for those people too Variety is the spice of life for some, but I need to stick with the basics, the less choices I have the better, as long as I LOVE those choices.

I definitely recommend the book to EVERYONE...knowing what is what and why it works will put all of this into perspective...take from it what you need and do what works best for you. Just like I did with LC, knowing why it works is what helps me stick to it.

NO! Overeating on UD's and fasting on DD's is uneffective, but he said the amount needed to overeat to that extent is usually one most people don't get to because you have to eat your same 2000 calories (example) plus another 1500 to make up for the DD and that's a ton of food....not to mention he does take away for the calories used during exercise...so if you eat 500 and burn 100...you can add another 100 to your intake for that day, which was a question I had. BUT you have to be careful that you are being honest with yourself about your exercise and calories burned....and consumed!

Bottom line - read the book...LOL! There is no "Doctor" in front of my name But I definitely now understand a lot better what I'm doing here and how to be successful and what to look at when I'm not.

OH...and yeah...the number on the scale means a lot...but I'm learning to rely more on what I see in the mirror than anything else and I LOVE MY FLAT BELLY now!
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:15 PM   #17
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Ah I misread. I was thinking it said not to worry if you under eat on your UD's. Then it would just be low-calorie day after day and not alternating. :facepalm:
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:27 PM   #18
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Thanks for all the wealth of information ladies

I'm on my first UP day and I'm actually hoping things are more calories than what I think they are

My DD was easy yesterday. I felt great! Today is a little harder. Did I just say that? Yes, getting lots of calories in isn't easy for some reason. I'm counting every thing I put in my mouth. I'm using ************ on my phone and it is wonderful! I plan to eat a big fattening dinner tonight and enjoy
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:33 PM   #19
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Ah I misread. I was thinking it said not to worry if you under eat on your UD's. Then it would just be low-calorie day after day and not alternating. :facepalm:
No, this actually was addressed in the book, about staying calorie-restricted constantly...I am losing my memory of it now, but I'm almost positive it said that this was a reason for failure of the program or any program, because it's just not realistic for most of us that are overweight to stick to that type of plan....while it WOULD be successful, it wouldn't last long term, so it's to be avoided.

Eat your calories, but don't stress having to get to that UD number as much as you should stress staying below the DD number...that's what I got from the book pretty much...oh and QUALITY over QUANTITY...it's not how much you eat...it's what you eat....we can get to 1800 calories eating a bag of chips (exaggeration I PRAY...LOL) and be starving within an hour again.... or we can eat a good balanced 3 meals a day and get the same thing, be full and satisfied all day and night....it's still our choice and we all need to make better food choices or we wouldn't be here right?

SUCKS!!! I wanna be one of the ones who eats whatever whenever and everybody hates them because they stay thin....BUT...here's a kicker....even overweight...eating JUDDD....we'll live longer than that skinny person eating the junk New definition of skinny fat...LOL!
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:40 PM   #20
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Such a great thread.

I love the DDs and find it easy to stay under 500, but I weigh and measure and read labels fanatically.

UDs have generally been at or under my 1669 with only one seriously higher cal and carb day.

I have learned the hard way that people who have been obese are not the people to tell "Eat as much as you'd like."
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:49 PM   #21
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OK, now I'M going to put my 2 cents in from what I have read, done and am doing with the JUDDD WOE. To me reading the book was HELPFUL, but experience has been the best teacher.

1. I never got down to 500 calories a day on my DDs, didn't even THINK to try to get down there, even after doing the plan for a while. I KNEW I would be setting myself up to quit before I even gave this WOE a chance if I felt that I wouldn't have enough food. I started at 700 and most days did 600 or 650 and I lost at a record speed; 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months. Not bad since I only wanted to lose 10! So I tend to not agree with the theory that we have to eat NO more than 500 calories on our DDs to lose but will agree we need to keep those DD calories pretty low for the plan to work and the DD/UD calorie gap needs to be wide enough, too. I didn't and lost just fine and so have many others in our JUDDD family doing the same thing.

2. I ate REAL food, period. I didn't do shakes because AGAIN I knew it wasn't going to work for me. I KNOW me and drinking my "food" would have lasted 1 day. I ate LOTS and LOTS of veggies and still do and found LOTS and LOTS of recipes to stretch those DD calories. And I lost 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months. Not bad figuring I didn't do what was suggested (and see the word: SUGGESTED...meaning NOT written in stone).

3. I ate up to my UD calories, every single time, and still do, or at least very close. I didn't tweak my UD calories, never had to UNTIL I lost all my weight and then CONTINUED to lose and didn't want to lose anymore. And I lost 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months BECAUSE I ate my UD calories as SUGGESTED.

4. I weigh, measure and count EVERYTHING, EVERYDAY UD OR DD. This is to keep ME accountable, even if it's really not SUGGESTED for UDs, and doing it this way I KNEW what I was eating, how much I should be eating AND what worked to give me the most nutritional bang for my UD calories. IF I hadn't done this I would have done the same thing I did with WW.....saved all my points (calories in this case) for SNACKS!! NOW I can kinda "wing it" if I have to (and I mean "have to" not "want to") BECAUSE I KNOW how much I need and should be eating FROM EXPERIENCE of eating this way for over 3 months now. BUT I never went over, at least not intentionally and I was always mindful of the calories I was eating. I NEVER ate in a "free for all" fashion and never will. <<<< This, to me, is a recipe for disaster just waiting to happen!

5. I still do pretty LC and always will. The benefits of LC are too great to just throw them away. I know it's SUGGESTED (again, not written in stone) not to, but MANY JUDDD BUDDDs are doing LC and some VLC and doing great!

And last but not least and SHOULDN'T be forgotten: We ALL need to do what works for us! I did, others have and you know what? There are LOTS and LOTS of amazing stories about weight loss on this JUDDD forum and MANY didn't do what was SUGGESTED! There are guidelines, like in anything in life, but nothing is EVER written in stone and when we think we need to do something in a cookie cutter fashion in order for it to work, then we are heading down the road to failure because..........WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT, OUR BODIES DO DIFFERENT THINGS WITH THE SAME FOODS, AND WE NEED TO DO WHAT WORKS FOR US, within the guidelines but not TOTALLY BY THE BOOK!

Life doesn't work "by the book" and I dare anyone to tell me different. And if you can prove that it works better "by the book" I'll be the first in line to sign up to be a cookie cut out of that cookie cutter.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:52 PM   #22
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I agree about the water weight, I know how distressing it can be to see the scale jump around overnight, but its just water, not fat. I only weigh myself once every couple of weeks to avoid getting upset over water weight. Thats my biggest downfall when it comes to dieting.. I see 1.5 pounds added to the scale and I give up! I did have to go to the doctor the other day and got weighed, and I weighed 3 pounds more there than I did when I had weighed 3 days before.. but I chalked that up to 1. my clothes and heavy shoes 2. it was late in the day 3. I was extremely constipated... Hey whatever puts my mind at ease, right? :-)
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:00 PM   #23
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OK, now I'M going to put my 2 cents in from what I have read, done and am doing with the JUDDD WOE. To me reading the book was HELPFUL, but experience has been the best teacher.

1. I never got down to 500 calories a day on my DDs. I KNEW I would be setting myself up to quit before I even gave this WOE a chance if I felt that I wouldn't have enough food. I started at 700 and most days did 600 or 650 and I lost at a record speed; 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months. Not bad since I only wanted to lose 10! So I tend to not agree with the theory that we have to eat NO more than 500 calories on our DDs to lose. I did and lost just fine and so have many others in our JUDDD family doing the same thing.

2. I ate REAL food, period. I didn't do shakes because AGAIN I knew it wasn't going to work for me. I KNOW me and drinking my "food" would have lasted 1 day. I ate LOTS and LOTS of veggies and still do and found LOTS and LOTS of recipes to stretch those DD calories. And I lost 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months. Not bad figuring I didn't do what was suggested (and see the word: SUGGESTED...meaning NOT written in stone).

3. I ate up to my UD calories, every single time, and still do, or at least very close. I didn't tweak my UD calories, never had to UNTIL I lost all my weight and then CONTINUED to lose and didn't want to lose anymore. And I lost 16.4 pounds in a little over 2 months BECAUSE I ate my UD calories as SUGGESTED.

4. I weigh, measure and count EVERYTHING, EVERYDAY UD OR DD. This was to keep ME accountable, even if it's really not SUGGESTED for UDs, and doing it this way I KNEW what I was eating, how much I should be eating AND what worked to give me the most nutritional bang for my UD calories. IF I hadn't done this I would have done the same thing I did with WW.....saved all my points (calories in this case) for SNACKS!! NOW I can kinda "wing it" if I have to (and I mean "have to" not "want to" BECAUSE I KNOW how much I need and should be eating FROM EXPERIENCE of eating this way for over 3 months now. BUT I never went over, at least not intentionally and I was always mindful of the calories I was eating. I NEVER ate in a "free for all" fashion and never will. <<<< This, to me, is a recipe for disaster just waiting to happen!

5. I still do pretty LC and always will. The benefits of LC are too great to just throw them away. I know it's SUGGESTED (again, not written in stone) not to, but MANY JUDDD BUDDDs are doing LC and some VLC and doing great!

And last but not least and SHOULDN'T be forgotten: We ALL need to do what works for us! I did, others have and you know what? There are LOTS and LOTS of amazing stories about weight loss on this JUDDD forum and MANY didn't do what was SUGGESTED! There are guidelines, like in anything in life, but nothing is EVER written in stone and when we think we need to do something in a cookie cutter fashion in order for it to work, then we are heading down the road to failure because..........WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT, OUR BODIES DO DIFFERENT THINGS WITH THE SAME FOODS, AND WE NEED TO DO WHAT WORKS FOR US, within the guidelines but not TOTALLY BY THE BOOK!

Life doesn't work "by the book" and I dare anyone to tell me different. And if you can prove that it works better "by the book" I'll be the first in line to sign up to be a cookie cut out of that cookie cutter.
I forgot if I mentioned it or not, but do you know that he NEVER was at 500 calories! He said he kept his at about 50% of his normal daily limit...I don't remember what that was, but I know it wasn't 500 for that same reason you indicate...he couldn't stick with it long term...it's recommended...but it must be realistic.

It has to be what works for you, what you can maintain in the long term so that we don't have to try to "diet' anymore...we'll get where we need to be and be able to maintain effortlessly over time...or somewhat effortlessly...being healthy takes work, no way around it...we must eat right, we must exercise...we must make healthy choices for ourselves....anything else is just a fad diet that won't last....the change is as much mental as it is physical I truly believe.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:02 PM   #24
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I've been following JUDDD for a little over 2 weeks and LOVE it! I do keep track of calories on my UD and DD's. I'm down about 7 lbs. and feel great!

A lifesaver for me has been the app on my phone called ************. It's super easy and contains thousands of foods and calorie contents. It seriously takes me a minute to put my foods in each day. And it is making me aware of what I'm putting in my mouth and how many calories it is. For example, I had an order of french fries from Wendy's on an UD -I hadn't had french fries in ages! The small order of fries was 380 calories -I was shocked! When I think of all the other food I could have that would equal 380 calories I realized I need to make better choices every single day. Oh, and the french fries didn't hurt me any

For the record my DD's are always 500-700 calories and my UD's are between 1700-2000.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:08 PM   #25
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hey Gracie I just started JUDDD yesterday. You and I discuss little baby Lisa a lot on the other thread. I'm glad to see we are following the same WOE
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:12 PM   #26
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Such a great thread.

I love the DDs and find it easy to stay under 500, but I weigh and measure and read labels fanatically.

UDs have generally been at or under my 1669 with only one seriously higher cal and carb day.

I have learned the hard way that people who have been obese are not the people to tell "Eat as much as you'd like."
So true! This made me laugh!

I could so very easily undo my DDs by eating at will on the following UD, it would make heads spin! If I don't keep track of my UD calories, I can pretty much erase the calorie deficit advantage of my DD every time. For myself, if I don't keep track of my UD calories, I can pretty much expect failure.

As it happens, I am in maintenance now, in my second year of JUDDD, and still loving it, respecting my calorie numbers for both DDs and UDs, and eating anything I want, loving every bite, and that is including some pretty high carb choices too.

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Old 11-08-2011, 01:19 PM   #27
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hey Gracie I just started JUDDD yesterday. You and I discuss little baby Lisa a lot on the other thread. I'm glad to see we are following the same WOE
JUDDD rocks! I used hhcg to get a lot of my pounds off and now I'm following JUDDD. So sad the baby Lisa thread is dying..... not much information anymore
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:29 PM   #28
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JUDDD rocks! I used hhcg to get a lot of my pounds off and now I'm following JUDDD. So sad the baby Lisa thread is dying..... not much information anymore


It IS sad.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:19 PM   #29
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Thank you for such an informative post!

And thank you to all the JUDD BUDDS who shared their input.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:26 PM   #30
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Gallery: kris4chloe
Stats: 229/181/140 HW:265
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: Sept 2011 Restart / Sept 2010 Original Start
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post

As to the not counting the UD calories..... here is where I'm a total and firm believer that most folks will destroy their hopes of success on this plan if they follow that advice. I know Dr. Johnson says followers can eat as they desire on their UDs, free of having to watch quantities, relieved of the need to weigh and measure and do any calorie counting. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that always worked for all of us? But most of the fat people I've known could very easily overeat on calories in one day to the extent that it could easily wipe out and totally negate the value of a good previous Down Day of low calories. Some of us just can't eat that many calories, period. So a nice uncounted Up Day can do us in, sink us, ruin us, make JUDDD fail for us.


i completely agree, i have had a few UD's where my "fat girl" mindset went into effect and I wasn't counting. After I decided to see what damage I did and actually counted I realized I did double my typical UD calories. I didn't get fat by counting calories, I got fat by eating what I wanted, when I wanted without abandonment. If I don't plan out my day or keep mindful of the calorie intake I can easily undo all the hard work of the previous DD.
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