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Old 10-25-2011, 08:28 PM   #1
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24hrUD/24hrDD experiment

A few days ago, I did OK on my DD until about 7-8pm. I was feeling very strong and got a bit cocky--I decided to make a quiche and some garlic knots for my vegetarian son.
My plan was to cook the next day, but he was supposed to go to a party and it got canceled. He seemed a bit bummed out and bored so I went ahead and made everything...

...and just couldn't resist my awesome cooking!
Oh dear, I must have eaten half a stick of butter...plus cheese and olive oil and pie crust and pizza dough...

So I decided to switch the next day to an UD, but in the meantime I came across a couple of other JUDDD sites that said it is possible to divide your days by a cut-off time, instead of using sleep as your divider. And I told someone else about it (RileyWorm) and made up a schedule for her to try to work her DDs around classes, exercise, and going on out on the weekends. And I thought...maybe I'll salvage this "accident" and try it out for myself.

So here's my pattern (bold are UD meals):
Breakfast Lunch Dinner Breakfast Lunch Dinner Breakfast Lunch Dinner etc
(I hope that makes sense?)
I start my UD at 7pm and end it at 3pm the next day, so my tummy is relatively empty by 7pm when I start my DD.
(Or whenever I feel like eating; right now it's 10pm and I haven't eaten since 3...not too hungry)
And on my DDs I'm not freaking out because I have a nice dinner to look forward to!

This is working for me so far (I've lost 1.2lbs in the last 3 days)
and I think the advantages could be:
--Works better if you're struggling with hunger on DDs
--Could also work better if you're having trouble getting in your UD calories
(I...don't...understand...this problem!!! )
--Easier to exercise every day
--Easier to plan social events
--Easier to switch a day (do back-to-back days) without messing with MDs, for special events or to keep every week on the same schedule
--I feel better taking my meds & vitamins with bigger meals & some fat; that's been difficult on DDs

Now, I'm always reorganizing and improvising and tweaking and messing with stuff, and I've only been doing it for 4 days,
SO I CAN'T PROMISE THIS IS A GOOD IDEA!!!
I do have diabetes, so maybe this is working better for me for that reason.
But if you're very intimidated by the DDs, maybe this could be a good option or transition plan.

(I've also been feeling an urge to "confess", since I haven't been following the REAL plan )
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:39 PM   #2
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It makes sense on paper, and it sounds like it is working for you. But I am thinking about what your daily calorie count looks like and it seems like you would be averaging out the same amount of calories each day, so it is not any different then a diet where you eat relatively the same amount of calories a day? maybe if i see a daily calorie amount over a few day span it would make more sense?
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #3
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I totally see your point, and I thought about that, but I'm not spreading those calories evenly throughout the day, as one might with "normal" dieting or Weight Watchers or whatever. I'm still observing a 24-hour period with restricted calories.

If you think about it, regularly scheduled DDs are around 30-36 hours, not 24.
For example: UD dinner at 8pm, sleep, DD, sleep again before UD breakfast at 8am=36 hours.
That could just be too long for some people to go on 500 calories!!!

And it's still a calorie spread, because one day I'm eating 2 larger meals and the next day only one.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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I will be interested in how this works for you, and your results as the days and weeks progress. As a way to cut calories for general weight loss, I sure don't see why it wouldn't be effective. We seem to always have various ones of us serving as guinea pigs here for one thing or another. I tested whether there was any advantage in two back-to-backs DDs to make up for an overly large UD, and followed that schedule for awhile. Rachelosity is doing WW using points, but cycling them into roughly Up and Down days.

You will be our sacrificial guinea pig for this.

I think, and I'm not positive.. just think, that part of the benefit of JUDDD from the standpoint of healing, comes strongly from the extended periods of calorie restriction, not just from the novel way of cutting overall calories for weight loss.. and that it may be from these extended periods of fasting with very little calorie intake that we are most benefited.

If that is true, the altering of a feeding schedule in a way as to allow a more even distribution of *daily* calories may also alter the strengths of what this type of calorie restriction plan can provide for us as we remain on it.

I would be interested in how you see the calorie numbers being distributed. I do understand how a feeding schedule like this can mean there is never a very long wait before the next large meal is forthcoming on some days, and that you have started off your actual day with a two big feedings before a small final feeding for the alternate days.

This plan does let the follower eat more calories in every *day*.. there are no lean days backed with days of abundance when the abundance is divided up and spread across the wakeful hours of two days this way.

I'll think more about this.
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Last edited by SoHappy; 10-25-2011 at 09:48 PM..
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:55 AM   #5
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I am interested in your results too. My schedule is just so jam packed that I have trouble adhering to eating schedules. I agree with Pat, though, in that I think the extended calorie restriction is of benefit (at least to me). Kind of like an intermittent fasting thing.(WHich is what I am actually doing when I fast on DD until dinner).
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:02 AM   #6
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I understand everybody's point about calorie restriction, but if one is messing up on DDs because of hunger (as I have been) then one isn't getting that benefit anyway.

The original mouse study plan was 24hr eating/24hr fasting--
Dr Johnson's plan is sort of a "riff" on that. So is IF.
So I guess I'm riffing on JUDDD.

You know how when you're on a new WOE and you're losing weight but not desperately gnawing on napkins, and people say "that's awesome" but secretly they're hoping you'll fail because you're not "suffering" as much as they think you should be? I hope I'm not being overly sensitive, but that's kinda the feeling I'm getting here...
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:25 AM   #7
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Good luck! It sounds interesting and you're a trooper for being the lab rat for it (and hey, someone had to be the first to try new things, right? else we wouldn't have new things!).
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:29 AM   #8
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sounds a lot like Brad Pilon's plan: Eat Stop Eat--a lot of people have a lot of success with it--basically you eat every 24 hours or so a couple of times a week. Eat at 3pm--don't eat again til 3pm the next day.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I understand everybody's point about calorie restriction, but if one is messing up on DDs because of hunger (as I have been) then one isn't getting that benefit anyway.

The original mouse study plan was 24hr eating/24hr fasting--
Dr Johnson's plan is sort of a "riff" on that. So is IF.
So I guess I'm riffing on JUDDD.

You know how when you're on a new WOE and you're losing weight but not desperately gnawing on napkins, and people say "that's awesome" but secretly they're hoping you'll fail because you're not "suffering" as much as they think you should be? I hope I'm not being overly sensitive, but that's kinda the feeling I'm getting here...
No, no! Please don't feel like that at all. I didn't intend to rain on your parade sort of thing at all. I am thrilled for all of us who can lose weight, especially since so many of us have tried so many plans and not found success on them. Anything that can make weight loss work is a true, true, TRUE blessing for us!

I am confident that your plan has calories more than low enough overall, and certainly low enough daily to see some good results in weight loss, and I do most certainly agree with you that it effectively does away with the Down Day, which is certainly the only hard part with JUDDD. The Up Days are a cinch!

And this design absolutely has calories vary between the two days. If I eat 1/3 of my DD calories at each of three meals and 1/3 of my UD calories at each of three meals, this design will have my days alternate by a difference of 400 calories, so it is truly following the alternating calorie pattern being advocated these days.

I will be excited to follow your experiment and applaud your resulting weight loss, because I would expect that result. Please don't think I would wish you failure. That would never, never happen. I'm sorry if anything I said gave you that impression. I wish you nothing but the absolute best.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:48 AM   #10
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Oct
11--288.8 DD
12--287.8 UD
13--288.4 DD
14--290.6 UD (too much fiber yesterday, I think!!!)
15--288.8 DD
16--287.4 UD (not hungry)
17--286.2 UD (VERY hungry)

18--287.8 DD (Week 1: -1lb)
19--286.4 UD
20--288.2 DD (strictest DD so far)
21--284.2 UD (what?!!! FOUR pounds?!!!)
22--285.0 DD + UD dinner (The Garlic Knots Incident!)
23--284.6 UD + DD dinner*
24--286.0 DD + UD dinner

25--284.8 UD + DD dinner (Week 2: -3lb, -4 total) (weighed 283.8 later in day)
26--283.6 **

*Note how I was down .4lbs the morning after The Incident?!
**And down 1.2lbs after an Up Day?!
--which, in all fairness, I think I'm going to start calling "Mixed Up Days" or "MUDs"

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 07:55 AM.. Reason: punctuation, add info
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:57 AM   #11
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If we ever need to have it impressed upon us that weight loss is not a straight linear thing, charting our ups & downs after our up/down days should show us the truth. Looks like you're making great progress. Way to go!
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:02 AM   #12
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Thank you, Pat!

ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
If we ever need to have it impressed upon us that weight loss is not a straight linear thing, charting our ups & downs after our up/down days should show us the truth.
OTOH, although it's only been a few days, on my Mixed Up Plan it seems like my weight fluctuations between UD/DDs are not as wild...
because on one day I only have one Up meal; and the next day, I have two but they're followed by a Down dinner.

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 08:10 AM.. Reason: ETA
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I totally see your point, and I thought about that, but I'm not spreading those calories evenly throughout the day, as one might with "normal" dieting or Weight Watchers or whatever. I'm still observing a 24-hour period with restricted calories.
If you think about it, regularly scheduled DDs are around 30-36 hours, not 24.
For example: UD dinner at 8pm, sleep, DD, sleep again before UD breakfast at 8am=36 hours.
That could just be too long for some people to go on 500 calories!!!

And it's still a calorie spread, because one day I'm eating 2 larger meals and the next day only one.
Ah..I think I understand it a bit better now...I was going cross eyed trying to figure your plan out..(was poorly yesterday...have a fuzzy head today!)

On my regular DD...my restricted calories are from say 9am Monday - 9am tuesday...24 hours of 500 cals

On your adjusted DD...your restriced calories are from say 7pm monday to 7pm tuesday...when you start your UD? Again 24 hours of 500 cals.

I am certainly no expert...but if you are having alternate 24 hours of restricted calories...and 24 hours of maintainance calories you should be seeing the benefits of juddd that any juddder sees!

Your own verion of juddd..Pirate Judding!

Fingers crossed it works well for you hun...please keep us posted!

Hugs
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Oct
11--288.8 DD
12--287.8 UD
13--288.4 DD
14--290.6 UD (too much fiber yesterday, I think!!!)
15--288.8 DD
16--287.4 UD (not hungry)
17--286.2 UD (VERY hungry)

18--287.8 DD (Week 1: -1lb)
19--286.4 UD
20--288.2 DD (strictest DD so far)
21--284.2 UD (what?!!! FOUR pounds?!!!)
22--285.0 DD + UD dinner (The Garlic Knots Incident!)
23--284.6 UD + DD dinner*
24--286.0 DD + UD dinner

25--284.8 UD + DD dinner (Week 2: -3lb, -4 total) (weighed 283.8 later in day)
26--283.6 **

*Note how I was down .4lbs the morning after The Incident?!
**And down 1.2lbs after an Up Day?!
--which, in all fairness, I think I'm going to start calling "Mixed Up Days" or "MUDs"
MUDS..I love it!

Friend "so how did you get so slim??"
You.." Oh, I have been Muddding for months!"
Friend (puzzled).."Eating it...??Rolling in it....???"

WTG on that great loss...and many more to come!

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Old 10-26-2011, 08:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Thank you, Pat!

ETA:


OTOH, although it's only been a few days, on my Mixed Up Plan it seems like my weight fluctuations after UDs are not as wild...
I would definitely expect that to be true, less of the great fluctuations, as the overall food intake is more closely spread out and evened up between the days.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
If we ever need to have it impressed upon us that weight loss is not a straight linear thing, charting our ups & downs after our up/down days should show us the truth. Looks like you're making great progress. Way to go!
You arnt kidding! After a horrible day yesterday spent mostly on the loo...I wake up feeling like a hollow stick.

Climb on the scales...exactly the same weight 135.25!

Yet I have lost weight after an UD that had me waking with a tummy like bhudda!

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Old 10-26-2011, 08:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedi View Post
On my regular DD...my restricted calories are from say 9am Monday - 9am tuesday...24 hours of 500 cals

On your adjusted DD...your restriced calories are from say 7pm monday to 7pm tuesday...when you start your UD? Again 24 hours of 500 cals.

Your own verion of juddd..Pirate Judding!
Wonderful explanation, Jo! Thank you for clarifying.
And Pirate Juddding--I love it!
I hope you are feeling better today.

I had a similar experience to yours a few years ago--I was feverish and ill for 3 days;
not only was I unable to eat or drink anything, but I was losing fluids every which way, if you know what I mean!!!
And after all that, I had only lost one pound. Which I promptly regained the second I was able to hold down a cup of tea!

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:02 AM   #18
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Ah..I think I understand it a bit better now...I was going cross eyed trying to figure your plan out..(was poorly yesterday...have a fuzzy head today!)

On my regular DD...my restricted calories are from say 9am Monday - 9am tuesday...24 hours of 500 cals

On your adjusted DD...your restriced calories are from say 7pm monday to 7pm tuesday...when you start your UD? Again 24 hours of 500 cals.

I am certainly no expert...but if you are having alternate 24 hours of restricted calories...and 24 hours of maintainance calories you should be seeing the benefits of juddd that any juddder sees!

Your own verion of juddd..Pirate Judding!

Fingers crossed it works well for you hun...please keep us posted!

Hugs
Jo
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Yes, a way of hold the fasting period to 24 hours rather than the longer approx. 36 hours of fasting when JUDDDing. But the calories would still be the calories.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:04 AM   #19
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I read through the whole thread a few times to make sure I fully understood, and I didn't get the impression anyone hoped you'd fail, just asking questions and pointing out concerns.

PirateJenny, I am interested in this - it sounds like it could make JUDDD even more manageable and flexible. No one day would be full-on UD or DD. Hmmm, I will think about it for a while because it requires a mental switch and like anything new, takes some time to wrap one's mind around fully. Just like when I started LC and just like when I started JUDDD, it felt so "different" at first, but it soon became almost second nature.

Couple questions - how do you change up the days/meals if you need to?

And what about when you are changing over your day, say from a DD at 3:00 p.m., do you need to make sure you have all your calories in by a certain time so there is a span of hours between the change to UD? Or else all your calories will sort of blur together everyday?

I think I've confused myself

Anyway I will be watching this with interest And considering it for myself, who knows.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
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25--284.8 UD + DD dinner (Week 2: -3lb, -4 total) (weighed 283.8 later in day)
26--283.6 ** (weighed 282.2 at 11am)


...down 1.2lbs after an Up Day...
How is this even possible?!!
*I've had some coffee, water, and a bowl of soup.
I'm laughing my head off! I'm not sure if it's confusion, or joy!!!

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 09:19 AM.. Reason: ETA: *
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:16 AM   #21
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Let me see if I fully understand the scheduling part. I've managed to confuse myself and now it's all in a tangle.

I had a regular JUDDD UD yesterday. Today should be a DD.

But if I were going to start 24 hr. JUDDD, I would have a DD only until 3 this afternoon? Or would it be until lunchtime - 12 or 1 p.m.?

And then I would need to wait and not eat anything until dinnertime (maybe 6 p.m-ish)? Or am I wrong and there is no real need to wait - you could eat your last DD food at 3 p.m. and then go right into UD food?

I think that's the part that has me confused, if you need to wait a certain number of hours to do the switchover.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:20 AM   #22
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How is this even possible?!!
*I've had some coffee, water, and a bowl of soup.
I'm laughing my head off! I'm not sure if it's confusion, or joy!!!
Magic.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:26 AM   #23
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How is this even possible?!!
*I've had some coffee, water, and a bowl of soup.
I'm laughing my head off! I'm not sure if it's confusion, or joy!!!
Way to go, PJenny!
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:28 AM   #24
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WOW, Jenny that is kick-***!!
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:32 AM   #25
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in the meantime I came across a couple of other JUDDD sites that said it is possible to divide your days by a cut-off time, instead of using sleep as your divider.
I know I have read this same thing before, and at first I thought it was in the book, but I flipped through and couldn't find it. Maybe I saw it on other websites too. It seems like Dr. J said he just picked sleep since most people would naturally use that as the divider of their days, but they could certainly divide it by other ways, say midnight to midnight if they wanted.

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Old 10-26-2011, 09:34 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Now, I'm always reorganizing and improvising and tweaking and messing with stuff, and I've only been doing it for 4 days,
Me too!!!


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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
(I've also been feeling an urge to "confess", since I haven't been following the REAL plan )
Glad you did!
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:47 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
How do you change up the days/meals if you need to?
Let's say it's for the weekend; you do a DD on Friday so you can go out to eat that night. Then you get invited to something else on Saturday night, so instead of having an UD breakfast on Saturday you'd do two DDs in a row:
Friday
Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner
Saturday
Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner
....now you get to have brunch on Sunday!
You could do this every weekend so that your UDs/DDs fall on the same days every week. In my experience/social circle, people don't go out or have a big late dinner on Sundays as often as Friday/Saturday and Sunday dinners/birthdays/BBQs etc tend to be around 2-3pm most of the time.

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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
And what about when you are changing over your day, say from a DD at 3:00 p.m., do you need to make sure you have all your calories in by a certain time so there is a span of hours between the change to UD? Or else all your calories will sort of blur together everyday?
Okay, by the time I write a bestselling book on this the rules may change a bit but what I'm doing so far is---

1) When I'm transitioning from DDs (breakfast & lunch) to UDs (at 7pm), I don't worry too much if the DD calories "blur" into my UD because they will be rather scanty all day anyway; I would have used a portion of them the night before. Nor would I worry if I started at 5 or 6pm due to hunger or some change in plans.

2) When I'm transitioning from UDs (B & L) to DDs (at 7pm), I eat my last UD calories at 3pm to allow time for digestion and to start my DD on an empty stomach. If I ate from 7pm to 7pm, I would probably overeat calories and my DD would realistically be less than 24 hours.

3) If an UD ran late (7 or 8 pm when I meant to stop at 3), due to a social event or emergency, I would try to avoid eating anything the rest of the night, or keep it to 50-100 calories if I really needed a snack before bed. Then I would start my UD the next day at 7pm as planned.

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
Let me see if I fully understand the scheduling part...
I had a regular JUDDD UD yesterday. Today should be a DD.

But if I were going to start 24 hr. JUDDD, I would have a DD only until 3 this afternoon? Or would it be until lunchtime - 12 or 1 p.m.?

And then I would need to wait and not eat anything until dinnertime (maybe 6 p.m-ish)? Or am I wrong and there is no real need to wait - you could eat your last DD food at 3 p.m. and then go right into UD food?
I was typing my last post when you posted this.
Let me know if I answered this already

Basically, I would just eat my DD calories as I wished today, and then have dinner at your regular time. You could stop eating DD a couple hours earlier, if you wanted. And/or reduce your DD calories by 1/3, since you're going to have UD dinner later. *Then, you'll be in the pattern. No other adjustments needed.

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: ETA: *
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:06 AM   #29
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Thanks for the explanation, PJ! That was fast This is making sense, I just need to let it fully "digest"

I can see how this would be very helpful for a lot of folks. Some might stay on the regular JUDDD, some might go to this fully, others might do a sort of rotation of the two methods if it suits their needs better that way. For example, do 24/JUDDD on weekends, or throw it in here and there if something comes up, or actually do certain days or weeks rotating the methods. I guess it's very flexible!

My only problem with regular DD is evening/before bed. I save some calories to the end so I can nibble a couple pieces of sugar free candy. Otherwise I can't sleep if I feel hungry.

On 24/JUDDD as you've described, I can see eating half my allotted DD calories in the evening so I can sleep welll, and then skipping b'fast since I usually don't need it anyway. Having the rest of my DD calories for lunch the next day, then starting a nice UD dinner, and so on.

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-26-2011 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:19 AM   #30
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Sophie...

I think it could also make a good "MD" or "switch day" since so many people get frustrated by them. Instead of trying to figure out MD meals for the whole day, do 2 DD ones and an UD dinner. Or vice versa.

Or, if you mess up your DD at night, like I did, salvage it by considering that you've just started your UD early!

And, again, perhaps a good way to ease into "real" JUDDD for newbies or returnees.

It may seem like it's not as effective for weight loss, or may not work at all for some people (I don't know about maintenance, for example),
but I was messing up my DDs so badly anyway, I wasn't sure JUDDD was going to work for me.

Last edited by piratejenny; 10-26-2011 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: spelling
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