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Old 10-29-2011, 05:02 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
sophiecat

This looks like another way I could avoid binging as it looks like you never really have the opportunity to get overly hungry. Correct me if that assumption is wrong! Would you mind laying out what a sample of the up/dd progression would like as a rough estimate?
So far I'm just 165 calories into my DD eating this evening. I'm going to have something else soon, and probably eat again before bed, depending on when I go to bed.

If I have to eat 500 calories of my 600 allowed to feel full and satisfied before sleep, I think it would be worth it so that I can go to sleep comfortable and stay asleep. Now, I'm hoping I won't need to eat that many tonight, but I think it would be worth it if that's what I need to do to sleep well.

Then I can skip breakfast and just drink black coffee all morning like I usually do (and did on LC too) and then have something early afternoon.

I can start my UD eating at 3 p.m.

HTH.
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MAINTENANCE since 11/12/11, & have lost more weight. I shake things up all the time with my version of Pirate Jenny's MUDDD, my "Fast 5" & other IF. ...low-moderate fat....and eating "healthy" foods 75+% of the time which lets me have real life and indulgences too I've reached my goals, improved my health & appearance, and enjoy my lifetime woe!

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-29-2011 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
Sophie - I like the way you laid out the scheduling and I'm thinking it might work out better for me. Also thank you graciously to Pirate Jenny for even thinking this plan up and sharing. Since you and I are not breakfast eaters, how are you handing Breakfast times on this system? Are you eating your breakfast/lunch combo around 10-11 am?
I think I will try to go at least til noon and just drink black coffee all morning like I always did on LC too. I almost never got hungry before 12 noon or 1 p.m. Even after a normal whole DD before, I would often wake up without hunger on an UD and have to start deliberately eating to get the eating going If I do need a little something for breakfast, just see if I can get by on a slice of Nickell's 35 calorie bread toasted with a smidge of sugar free jam or something else low cal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
I ask because 1) I'm new and 2) this is my 2nd down day and I've held off eating anything until 6:00 p.m. tonight. Yeah, saving my calories for evening because of that being my hungry time. I would have like to have something for lunch but knew I would have to have something b-4 bed.

It worked out ok today but I was at home but when I go back to work, it's going to be harder to hold off eating till later in the day on my DD's . So, I'm thinking after I undertstand this and see how it may play out in real life, I might implement this.

My calories are UD: 2000/DD: 500.
I understand about your hungry time being at night. Me too! That's why I think this modified schedule for JUDDD will work so well for people like us. I'm pretty sure Dr. Johnson said somewhere in the book he just picked sleep as the divider of days because that's what most people would naturally use, but it could be anytime. If someone wanted to go midnight to midnight, for example, it was fine. If he didn't state this in the book, I know I read it somewhere on a JUDDD forum.

Anyway, this could work well for you around your work schedule, or you could change the time to something other than 3 p.m. to 3 p.m. that would suit you better.

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-29-2011 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:14 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Sophiecat
Did you end up using the rotation in post #32?
I intended to, but then got things screwed up and now I'm pretty much the opposite of that schedule I'm not doing the modification for weekends, just going to go a straight alternating schedule for a bit and see what I feel like doing next weekend.

Right now I'm on a DD evening and will still be DD tomorrow morning til 3 p.m. when I will start UD. Which will work out because I intend to make a nice meatloaf tomorrow night
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:20 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
I intended to, but then got things screwed up and now I'm pretty much the opposite of that schedule I'm not doing the modification for weekends, just going to go a straight alternating schedule for a bit and see what I feel like doing next weekend.

Right now I'm on a DD evening and will still be DD tomorrow morning til 3 p.m. when I will start UD. Which will work out because I intend to make a nice meatloaf tomorrow night
That's funny...I am planning on a meatloaf for supper tomorrow. I was planning on a mid day.

Did you get my post question a couple of post ago?
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:20 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
So far I'm just 165 calories into my DD eating this evening. I'm going to have something else soon, and probably eat again before bed, depending on when I go to bed.

If I have to eat 500 calories of my 600 allowed to feel full and satisfied before sleep, I think it would be worth it so that I can go to sleep comfortable and stay asleep. Now, I'm hoping I won't need to eat that many tonight, but I think it would be worth it if that's what I need to do to sleep well.

Then I can skip breakfast and just drink black coffee all morning like I usually do (and did on LC too) and then have something early afternoon.

I can start my UD eating at 3 p.m.

HTH.

Looks like we have the same calorie numbers 1800 and 600. So if I went with the sample week in post #32 would that mean that I would need to eat 1800 cals for breakfast and lunch, then pick a dinner time down day time that is a few hours later? The 24 hours would start with the time I start my first down day right? Hope I am making some sense! I just noticed I am spelling sopiethecat wrong. Sorry.
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:29 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
That's funny...I am planning on a meatloaf for supper tomorrow. I was planning on a mid day.

Did you get my post question a couple of post ago?

I think so, but if I left anything out, let me know.
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:40 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Looks like we have the same calorie numbers 1800 and 600. So if I went with the sample week in post #32 would that mean that I would need to eat 1800 cals for breakfast and lunch, then pick a dinner time down day time that is a few hours later? The 24 hours would start with the time I start my first down day right? Hope I am making some sense! I just noticed I am spelling sopiethecat wrong. Sorry.
Don't worry about getting my username right or wrong, it's np! I will answer to pretty much anything You can call me sophie or sophiecat or soapycat, lol No worries.

Let me study this over so I make sure I answer your questions correctly...

OK, if you were going by that schedule, you could subtract about 1/3 of your allotted 1800 calories from what you actually eat at bfast and lunch tomorrow because some of those calories were intended to be eaten tonight. So you could take off 600 calories or so and eat 1,200 tomorrow from the time you wake up until it's time to switch over.

Then go about 4 hours if you can to give your stomach time to empty for the DD eating. So if you stopped eating your UD calories at 3 p.m. tomorrow, you might eat at 7 p.m. to start your DD eating.

But yes, your DD hours would start at 3 p.m and you would have 24 hours of that and switch over at 3 p.m. Monday to UD eating. You could just start right in eating UD calories at 3 p.m. Monday if you wanted since you probably wouldn't have been eating a lot on Monday morning/early afternoon anyway.

Hope I explained that well. Just holler if you have any questions and I'll get to ya. Maybe PJenny will see it first, or even someone else who feels like jumping in (don't be shy, readers!)
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:47 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
I think so, but if I left anything out, let me know.
Sry, no, you didn't and I missed your reply post somehow. lolol - figures, I am brain dead this DD! Running on 500 calorie cylinders.

This all sounds great and right for me but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the calories. For example:

I want to start this coming Monday. We'll use 2 days as a basis. I am on a UD: 2000 calories and DD: 500 calories. So what calories for each of the meals below?

Monday:

Breakfast: UD

Lunch: UD

Dinner: DD


Tuesday:

Breakfast: DD

Lunch: DD

Dinner: UD

Last edited by BlueTopaz; 10-29-2011 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:00 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
Sry, no, you didn't and I missed your reply post somehow. lolol - figures, I am brain dead this DD! Running on 500 calories cylinders.

This all sounds great and right for me but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the calories. For example:

I want to start this coming Monday. We'll use 2 days as a basis. I am on a UD: 2000 calories and DD: 500 calories. So what calories for each of the meals below?

Monday:

Breakfast: UD

Lunch: UD
Since you were intended for some of those 2000 calories to be eaten Sunday night, you could take off about 1/3 of the total calories, let's just say 650 calories. So you could eat 1,350 on Monday from the time you woke up til 3 p.m. (if that's going to be your divider time.) Then, try to wait 4 hours for your stomach to empty and have your next meal, a DD meal around 7 p.m. if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
Dinner: DD
OK, once your DD calories can be consumed, it's up to you how you want to spend the 500. I would eat what I needed to to feel comfortable, especially before bedtime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
Tuesday:

Breakfast: DD

Lunch: DD
You are still taking from those 500 calories, whatever you didn't eat the night before. You don't have to eat them all if you don't want, but eat them if you need to. If you need some b'fast you can eat it or hold off and eat what you need to get you until 3 p.m. when you can start right into UD calories if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitedov1208 View Post
Dinner: UD
Back to UD eating Eat what you want out of your full 2000 calories. You will also be working on these calories when you wake up the next day - if you want to eat breakfast and lunch or to mid afternoon too. Remember to get all these calories in if you can.

HTH!
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:12 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
Don't worry about getting my username right or wrong, it's np! I will answer to pretty much anything You can call me sophie or sophiecat or soapycat, lol No worries.

Let me study this over so I make sure I answer your questions correctly...

OK, if you were going by that schedule, you could subtract about 1/3 of your allotted 1800 calories from what you actually eat at bfast and lunch tomorrow because some of those calories were intended to be eaten tonight. So you could take off 600 calories or so and eat 1,200 tomorrow from the time you wake up until it's time to switch over.

Then go about 4 hours if you can to give your stomach time to empty for the DD eating. So if you stopped eating your UD calories at 3 p.m. tomorrow, you might eat at 7 p.m. to start your DD eating.

But yes, your DD hours would start at 3 p.m and you would have 24 hours of that and switch over at 3 p.m. Monday to UD eating. You could just start right in eating UD calories at 3 p.m. Monday if you wanted since you probably wouldn't have been eating a lot on Monday morning/early afternoon anyway.

Hope I explained that well. Just holler if you have any questions and I'll get to ya. Maybe PJenny will see it first, or even someone else who feels like jumping in (don't be shy, readers!)
Thanks you explained it beautifully. So tomorrow I will eat 1200 cals by noonish and then have a very small down day dinner around 4pm if hungry. I will use the remainder of the down days calories by noon on Monday and then start my new up day Monday at 4pm. I will try this and see if it keeps me from feeling bingey after a down day. I can always go back to the zig zag if needed. My concern with the zig zag is that there is not enough of a calorie variance to get the fasting effect.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:16 PM   #101
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THANK YOU, Sophie! I'm going to write this all down.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:24 PM   #102
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Jeanie & Linda, I'm SO GLAD to be able to help you guys and I'm I got it all right.

Someone correct me if I did not.

Also, I like what PirateJenny said here and thought you would want to see this if you missed it before: If an UD ran late (7 or 8 pm when I meant to stop at 3), due to a social event or emergency, I would try to avoid eating anything the rest of the night, or keep it to 50-100 calories if I really needed a snack before bed. Then I would start my UD the next day at 7pm as planned.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:30 PM   #103
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we need a graphics person! I get it, but I would love to SEE it!
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:50 PM   #104
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Jeanie & Linda, I'm SO GLAD to be able to help you guys and I'm I got it all right.

Someone correct me if I did not.

Also, I like what PirateJenny said here and thought you would want to see this if you missed it before: If an UD ran late (7 or 8 pm when I meant to stop at 3), due to a social event or emergency, I would try to avoid eating anything the rest of the night, or keep it to 50-100 calories if I really needed a snack before bed. Then I would start my UD the next day at 7pm as planned.
Thanks so much for your help!
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:09 PM   #105
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Thanks you explained it beautifully. So tomorrow I will eat 1200 cals by noonish and then have a very small down day dinner around 4pm if hungry. I will use the remainder of the down days calories by noon on Monday and then start my new up day Monday at 4pm. I will try this and see if it keeps me from feeling bingey after a down day. I can always go back to the zig zag if needed. My concern with the zig zag is that there is not enough of a calorie variance to get the fasting effect.
You got it! I hope this works for you! If not, like you said, you can always go back to zig-zag or whatever works best for you.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:11 PM   #106
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we need a graphics person! I get it, but I would love to SEE it!
Yes, like see it blocked out in color on calendar days of the week, for example.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:37 PM   #107
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I finished the Lite Progresso soup about an hour or so ago, so I'm up to 225 calories and I feel great! I am going to have a mug of diet Swiss Miss (25 calories) but I think I'm done eating for the night and I can go to bed later happy! And yet if I do think I need to eat again tonight, I have calories galore to spare!
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:53 PM   #108
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I am brain dead this DD! Running on 500 calorie cylinders.
I understand this feeling!
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Old 10-29-2011, 08:58 PM   #109
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I understand this feeling!
LOL -at the time of questioning, I was running on 350 calories now that I think about it.

I just mapped it all out for a week. Thank you for helping me to with the calories.

The only day I will have a problem is Wednesday at Dinner because it should be a Down Dinner but I have dinner plans with a friend. So, I'll make that a mid-day and start up the next day w/Breakfast and Lunch - DD's.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:00 PM   #110
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The only day I will have a problem is Wednesday at Dinner because it should be a Down Dinner but I have dinner plans with a friend. So, I'll make that a mid-day and start up the next day w/Breakfast and Lunch - DD's.
Pirate Jenny keeps it all very flexible according to your needs so you should be able to adjust the schedule so that you can enjoy the dinner Wednesday as an UD dinner (using about 1/3 of your total UD calories - so 650 or 700 calories)

See how she did Fri and Sat in that example schedule? You could repeat Wed as though it were Tues... so make it a DD b'fast and lunch and go ahead with an UD dinner. Then just go back to the normal rotation. You could make Thurs. b'fast and lunch UD (using the rest of your 2000 calories) and Thurs. night DD, and so on....

Maybe that is what you meant when you said you could make it a "mid-day", I just wasn't sure. Or maybe you'd rather keep closer to the schedule you'd already worked out, and that's fine too. It's all quite flexible

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-29-2011 at 10:03 PM..
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:07 PM   #111
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I felt like I needed just a little more somethin' in my tummy before calling it a night, so I had a 60 calorie SF vanilla pudding. My total is 310 calories for the DD so far. To be continued when I wake up...
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:11 PM   #112
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ok because i am a math geek and need to work out numbers to figure this out. i realized that if you take your UD and your DD amounts and divide it evenly by three and then add it up, you are still doing UD/DD but with just different variations of calories and a smaller difference.

So hear me out....

Using my numbers of a DD of 500 and an UD of 2000

it would make 500 calories divided by 3 be roughly 167 calories per meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner) just for math purposes and so i could wrap my brain around it this was the easiest way to figure it and not worry about snacks

then that makes UD calories of 2000 when divided by 3 be roughly 667 calories

so this is what it would look like

Day One: DD (167) + DD (167) + UD (667) = 1001 calories
Day Two: UD (667) + UD (667) + DD (167) = 1501 calories (which is still 2500 calories every 2 days same as an UD/DD of 500/2000
Day Three: same as day one
Day Four: same as day two

and so on and so on

so really now you are just doing DD/UD of 1000/1500

i wonder if grouping the meals with your meals could be doing it, or if it is just the variation in calories even though not as drastic as your typical DD/UD

and just want to say that I disagree with anyone trying this approach. I just wanted to talk out loud to see how the numbers work.

It is an interesting concept and part of me wonders if it is the calories, or if it is the grouping of DD/DD/UD and UD/DD/DD where you are bunching your large calorie and low calorie meals together at either the beginning of the day or end of the day??
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:15 PM   #113
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Sophie - Gotcha. I was figuring 1250 calories for the Wed. mid-day: 2500 cal divided by 2 = 1250 and having the before 3:00 p.m. calories 500, the dinner calories 500, leaving 250 calories for my late night snackeroo.

The pattern would fall for Sat night for UP Dinner that way so DH can take me out to eat
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:26 PM   #114
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Kris: Believe it or not, my brain's transmitters running on 502 calories today understands your math. That is a good question which I'll leave the veterans to answer. I just started 4 days ago on the WOE and can't compare MUDDD to JUDDD as far as weight loss cuz I didn't lose any yet.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:10 AM   #115
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ok because i am a math geek and need to work out numbers to figure this out. i realized that if you take your UD and your DD amounts and divide it evenly by three and then add it up, you are still doing UD/DD but with just different variations of calories and a smaller difference.

So hear me out....

Using my numbers of a DD of 500 and an UD of 2000

it would make 500 calories divided by 3 be roughly 167 calories per meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner) just for math purposes and so i could wrap my brain around it this was the easiest way to figure it and not worry about snacks

then that makes UD calories of 2000 when divided by 3 be roughly 667 calories

so this is what it would look like

Day One: DD (167) + DD (167) + UD (667) = 1001 calories
Day Two: UD (667) + UD (667) + DD (167) = 1501 calories (which is still 2500 calories every 2 days same as an UD/DD of 500/2000
Day Three: same as day one
Day Four: same as day two

and so on and so on

so really now you are just doing DD/UD of 1000/1500

i wonder if grouping the meals with your meals could be doing it, or if it is just the variation in calories even though not as drastic as your typical DD/UD

and just want to say that I disagree with anyone trying this approach. I just wanted to talk out loud to see how the numbers work.

It is an interesting concept and part of me wonders if it is the calories, or if it is the grouping of DD/DD/UD and UD/DD/DD where you are bunching your large calorie and low calorie meals together at either the beginning of the day or end of the day??

Since the average calories the dieter is consuming as the weeks go by is lowered on this plan as well as on the JUDDD plan, regardless of how folks divide up their meals, I would expect dieters to experience weight loss, as this is how most people *diet*. They wake up in the morning and eat a certain number of calories before they go to sleep again that night, and if the overall calories that week are kept low enough, they should expect to see weight loss happen for them. Weight loss diets have traditionally relied simply on cutting calories to work, although there are various ways that have been devised to get the calories cut down and held down every day to see weight loss result. Weight Watchers is one of the big ones. This is a way to cut the calories too, with weight loss as the goal.

You are correct that the calorie numbers are kept much closer together each feeding period this way, with much less variance between the feeding days as the weeks pass. The spread between the highs and lows of each eating period is much less because the daylight eating periods are mixed this way, with calories from a heavy feeding period being borrowed to pad out an alternate semi-fasting eating period. Each daylight period of feeding contains more calories than it would if you were eating at your standard DD number but fewer calories than it would if you were eating at your standard UD feeding number.

So this plan has some variance in calorie numbers for alternating feeding periods, but not the strong variance JUDDD features between the alternating feeding periods. But, because of that, this plan doesn't have that extended nearly-fasting DD period that is so often so hard to get through on JUDDD, and as PirateJenny pointed out, because the standard JUDDD Down Day was so difficult for some to adhere to and do successfully, if they just threw in the towel and gave up completely.. what good did that do them? LOL

Before JUDDD, I dieted very similarly to this, holding my calories down during all my daylight hours, although better some days than others, so actually have some variance with some days a bit higher than other days, and some days a little better and lower than the previous one... and I did lose weight. It was dieting, and it worked for me. And it was workable from the standpoint that if we were going out for the evening, I could save up most of the day's calories for that evening out and have plenty of calories to *spend*.

The really hard part about JUDDD is those DDs when you wake up in the morning, just emerging from your nighttime sleeping fast since the day before, and now you face a semi-fasting daylight feeding period of low Down Day calories, and then are going to continue fasting through your nighttime sleeping period before finally waking up to the next huge daylight feeding period.

The health benefits of fasting extend beyond weight loss. That is apparently one of the most beneficial aspects of JUDDD that this plan erases, but as PirateJenny points out, folks won't be experiencing this benefit anyway if they quit JUDDD because it is hard.

The other thing this plan does away with is the very high calorie daylight feeding period that alternates with that period of *starvation*/hunger, which has the benefit of stimulating metabolic function with the huge flood of incoming calories every other feeding period.

Once again, as PirateJenny pointed out, if somebody is unable to follow JUDDD because of not being able to make it through those DDs, they aren't going to be reaping the benefits of the JUDDD plan anyway. So at least this way, they can perhaps benefit from the overall lowered calories of their feeding periods and see weight loss. And that's what most of us are here for in the first place anyway. Regardless of what plan we follow, most of us just want to lose some weight!
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:42 AM   #116
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Although I am not mudding, I am really enjoying this thread!
It is a fascinating plan, and I am looking forward to you all posting your results!

Happy eating everyone!

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Old 10-30-2011, 07:48 AM   #117
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Kris - I was actually doing your same math lying in bed pondering my WOE. You explained it thoroughly thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post

Regardless of what plan we follow, most of us just want to lose some weight!
Thank you SoHappy. I only quoted the above statement, as that is the honest truth, tho you whole article was great. That was a wonderful read.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:05 AM   #118
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Kris - Thank you for taking the time to post this. It means a lot to me to understand this system as I've never counted calories on a diet before. This gave my brain some exercise to think of besides food itself on my DD. I'm sure you've save a lot of us pondering how this MUDDD impacts our calorie count day in and day out.

Pat (SoHappy) - And many thanks to you for helping us to see the broad scope of the differences between MUDDD and JUDDD. There are pros and cons to both methods which you explained beautifully. What I like is that there is a Plan B to JUDDD in case any of us are in our DD and ready to throw in the towel

I'm trying this method today after coming from yesterday's DD and going to continue the DD until dinnertime where I'm having my 1st UD meal. It should be interesting to see how much I weigh tomorrow morning having 5 DD meals and 1 UD meal. I hope to see a loss. This morning I weighed and down 2 lbs from yesterday morning.

It's all good and I find this to be a lot of fun. How many diets can you say that about?
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:12 AM   #119
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WTG Linda on the loss! I know how good that has got to feel
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:09 AM   #120
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i am starting MUDDDING today(DD starting tonight). this is the easiest way for me because on long nights when i have school i get so STARVED if it's a DD. plus, my weekends are so unpredictable (and the only time i get to spend with BF, who loves to eat, bbq, dine out, etc) that this will help me cope with the weekends.
SO, if i'm following this correctly:

Sunday - start dinner with a DD
Monday - Breakfast - DD; Lunch - DD; Dinner - UD
Tuesday - Breakfast - UD; Lunch - UD; Dinner - DD
etc, etc, etc...

finally decided to follow piratejenny's suggestions! thank you!
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