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Old 10-12-2011, 10:39 AM   #1
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Considering JUDDD for maintaining - have questions

Hi

I am so close to my goal weight now and have been thinking about how I'm going to maintain with a woe that I can keep up for life.

This is kinda long, sorry, but a little background - I've never had a problem with weight except for a few times in my 30s (Insulin resistance would rear up from either being too sedentary, being on a certain medication, too many refined carbs, etc.).

Last summer before the weight gain (which is the biggest one I'd ever had), I had been enjoying what you might call a Mediterranean or French inspired woe - lots of veggies, evoo, full fat, cream sauces, some pasta, homemade bread, etc. and my weight was fine, I enjoyed cooking and eating the meals, and I felt fine despite not exercising.

Starting last November, I got lazy with cooking and started eating too many refined carbs like cookies, and being too sedentary. From November until June I kept gaining and not doing anything about it. (It seems there's often a mental block in this weight gain experience until something gives us a wakeup call.)

During the time from Nov. 2010 to late June 2011, I gained from about my normal range of 143 - 147#, up to at least 170#. (I didn't weigh myself until I had already been dieting a couple days, so I'm sure I was actually above 170.)

I had my wakeup call in the form of seeing myself in pictures taken while on a vacation, and I started losing weight in June by reducing refined carbs. I was still having *some* real bread (like 1 thick slice of sourdough per day with butter), or a little rice or something, but cut out pretty much all sweets. Then I went full-on LC by the end of July.

Honestly, I lost weight both ways - by moderate carb and LC - but once I got used to it, the LC was pretty easy for me since it kept me full, satisfied for hours, and not worrying about "what to eat" (just ate simple foods - meat, eggs, etc.) I was also concerned about my hormones/insulin and wanted to get things under control and was afraid I couldn't do that as well if still eating breads, potatoes, etc.

I would say that my LC and often VLC eating was overkill as far as weight loss because I did not lose weight that fast, certainly no faster than just going Medium LC. But I was sort of experimenting with it and as I said, hoping to help my hormones.

Now I'm almost there and thinking about returning to something closer to how I was eating last summer, but incorporating it into JUDDD because I am intrigued by calorie restriction for its health and longevity benefits.

I want to be able to enjoy some carbs sometimes like mashed potatoes, good bread, a little pasta, of course some pizza, but I do not want these to set off a spiral of cravings and a fall back into problems with blood sugar, IR, pcos, weight gain.

I am hoping that JUDDD eating would help keep that under control.

I have been reading some things about it on this site and others, but I have questions about the timing of the up/down days.

If I read correctly, I see where some do down days on M-W-F, but doesn't that mess you up having 2 up days in a row on Sat and Sun?

And another question I really need to know. If I go every other day of the week up/down, what if there is some event coming up that I need an up day for? For example, if you're going about your normal pattern but a holiday (where you'd want to eat more) fall on one of your down days, how do you adjust for that?

Is it OK to do 2 up days in a row or should you plan for an event by having 2 down days in a row?

Is there some wiggle room that won't get your body out of whack if you need to make adjustment like that?

Anyone have comments on what they have done and how it affected them? I am sorry if these things have been asked a million times but I think they are the only big questions I have that I haven't seen the answers for.

Thank you!!!
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Started JUDDD 10/12/11 after LC.
MAINTENANCE since 11/12/11, & have lost more weight. I shake things up all the time with my version of Pirate Jenny's MUDDD, my "Fast 5" & other IF. ...low-moderate fat....and eating "healthy" foods 75+% of the time which lets me have real life and indulgences too I've reached my goals, improved my health & appearance, and enjoy my lifetime woe!

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-12-2011 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:06 AM   #2
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It sounds like JUDDD will be a wonderful fit for you with your background, allowing you to gradually add in whichever foods you have always done well on, while helping you minimize the addition of foods that are tasty.. but about worthless as far as our diets are concerned. I've found JUDDD works wonderfully for me that way, at least. It allows me to have the occasional Snickers Bar, while helping me keep complete control of my overall daily and weekly menu plans and remain in maintenance.

Doing the rotation of Up Days and Down Days is very simple. The foods you decide to include are your choices, completely up to you, and that applies to the carbs as well as the overall calories.

Some people choose to make every M-W-F be Down Days. So, of course, there are Up Days between each of the DDs, and then that leaves the two weekend days..... and we usually make one of them a Medium Day. So every week has the same UDs, and the same DDs, and that one MD.

So a representative week might look like this:

M - DD
T - UD
W - DD
T - UD
F - DD
S - UD
S - MD
and then you start in the next week with your DD on Monday and continue your rotation.

But what if you are going to have a big party to go to Friday night? You don't want it to be a DD, 'cause you plan on eating the party food and drink and having a great relaxed and uninhibited time.

So you want to alter the rotation of your days this week, so that Friday isn't the usual DD. Instead, you want to make it turn into an UD. So you alter your rotation something like this:

M - DD
T - UD
W - MD
T - DD
F - UD
S - DD
S - UD

This extends your normal rotation by one day, and makes your Friday this week, be an UD. And then, when Monday comes, it's the normal DD, and your week continues as usual from there. Next Friday will be a normal DD, since you won't be having a party that evening.

It is recommended not to have two DDs in a row, and not to have two UDs in a row. But the truth of it is, it usually doesn't matter if you do.

It's just that if you get in the habit right from the beginning of doing JUDDD about right, it just makes it easier for JUDDD to do it's magic for you. It keeps you a little safer from getting too far off plan, too often, and bit by bit.. forgetting to quite do it right, and you find yourself actually not doing it much anymore, and the weight is building again. Horrors! So we try to get into a good JUDDD habit, and then rely on it to keep everything going well for our weight control and our health forevermore.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:09 AM   #3
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to the JUDDD forum and hope you find this WOE something you can do. I just actually switched up my DDs/UDs so that I could have Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve as an UD!!

I would like to suggest you read these forums: JUDDD for SEPTEMBER: Discussions of Daily Life, Eating, Foods and Supplements

Please Explain a Medium Day To Me

I am also hoping Pat (SoHappy) will chime in here and help (OOPS, see she DID chime in before I could post this! WTG Pat)! She is our "Guru" for JUDDD and has all the answers to many of our JUDDD questions. These threads should help, too! ^^
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Last edited by Beeb; 10-12-2011 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:13 AM   #4
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Yes, you can stick that MD into your rotation pretty much anyday you want to make into a MD.. it doesn't really matter whether you replace an UD or a DD with it. It will just serve to push your normal rotation one day advanced. You get to decide how to work it in.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:14 AM   #5
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YAYYYY!!! Thank you, SoHappy! You made it so simple to understand. Thanks for taking the time to post all that. I'm going to save it to re-read until this becomes more natural for me.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #6
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Thanks, Beeb, I thought you might come to my rescue too, and I'm going to read those links you posted later. Once I get my mind around it all and switch gears back to "count calories" again, this will fall into place.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
Thanks, Beeb, I thought you might come to my rescue too, and I'm going to read those links you posted later. Once I get my mind around it all and switch gears back to "count calories" again, this will fall into place.
Even the *count calories* part of it all ends up being almost as effortless as the previous counting of carbs on a LC plan. After awhile, you don't have to keep looking everything up.. you just know it.

I've started making myself the occasional bowl of oatmeal. I love it! And when I nuke only 1/4 C of oats in 1/2 C of water, I can make it all creamy and luscious. I stir in some 0 calorie Walden Farms pancake syrup, and YUM. I know that's 74/75 calories.

So it's not long before you know the calorie counts of much that you eat on your DDs, and even on the UDs too, which often have to contain estimated meals anyway, 'cause sometimes you don't get calorie counts when you eat out or at your friends home, etc. Some people don't even count their UD calories at all. Those are *eat whatever and don't pay attention to any of it* days, but I could KILL an Up Day so fast if I did that it would make my head spin!

It doesn't take very long to get into JUDDD and looking at food choices from the calorie standpoint rather than just from the carb standpoint.

And here's the best thing about JUDDD for me: You know all those luscious and fabulous and delicious foods you get to eat on Low Carb that just about make your eyes roll back into your head? You still get to eat them on JUDDD! And you know all those luscious and fabulous and delicious forbidden foods that you couldn't eat on Low Carb? You can eat those on the JUDDD plan too! Totally up to you. I eat pretty much some of everything, and JUDDD keeps me eating it all in the portion sizes that make it work for me.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophiethecat View Post
Thanks, Beeb, I thought you might come to my rescue too, and I'm going to read those links you posted later. Once I get my mind around it all and switch gears back to "count calories" again, this will fall into place.
So glad I could help in someway! And just like you KNOW how many carbs are in something you want to eat, you will get to KNOW how many calories are in things. It takes time, just like anything worthwhile does sometimes, but all the counting really pays off in the end!!

One of the things I the mos about JUDDD is how forgiving it is and how easy it is to adjust to our needs. It makes life very simple, I think even with the calorie counting until we get the hang of it!
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:38 AM   #9
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You can count *anything* on JUDDD: I'm still counting Points, with amazing shrinkage. I find I have two "foodstyles" - it's like dressing up for work vs. dressing down to clean the cat box. Not that DDs are as awful as cleaning the cat box, but they require a different set of tools than UDs do. In fact, this morning, I was thinking of how good a OMM would be (it's my UD and I eat more Points) and actually reminded myself, "Rachel, you can have that tomorrow!"
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachelocity View Post
You can count *anything* on JUDDD: I'm still counting Points, with amazing shrinkage. I find I have two "foodstyles" - it's like dressing up for work vs. dressing down to clean the cat box. Not that DDs are as awful as cleaning the cat box, but they require a different set of tools than UDs do. In fact, this morning, I was thinking of how good a OMM would be (it's my UD and I eat more Points) and actually reminded myself, "Rachel, you can have that tomorrow!"
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachelocity View Post
You can count *anything* on JUDDD: I'm still counting Points, with amazing shrinkage. I find I have two "foodstyles" - it's like dressing up for work vs. dressing down to clean the cat box. Not that DDs are as awful as cleaning the cat box, but they require a different set of tools than UDs do. In fact, this morning, I was thinking of how good a OMM would be (it's my UD and I eat more Points) and actually reminded myself, "Rachel, you can have that tomorrow!"
That's funny!

Sounds like cycling your WW Points a little differently than outlined on WW, by using the JUDDD Up/Down principle, is working out splendidly for you. Awfully glad to hear you are having success doing it this way. I have to admit, I do so love being able to be *kinda' lavish* with my food choices on my UDs, knowing that the DDs are the anchor that holds it all in place.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:30 AM   #12
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I see what you mean, Rachel, about it requiring two mind sets. I am still mulling over how I'm going to do low calorie on DD because I'm not used to thinking low fat or low calorie, but I know I will get there and like Beeb said, will come as natural as low carb.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I see what you mean, Rachel, about it requiring two mind sets. I am still mulling over how I'm going to do low calorie on DD because I'm not used to thinking low fat or low calorie, but I know I will get there and like Beeb said, will come as natural as low carb.
I think you may find that after about 2 weeks on the calorie cycling your body will intuitively be ready for the down days. That has been my experience.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:45 AM   #14
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Not feeling so well today, since yesterday late afternoon, and I think it's partly because I got off to a bad start with the way I was trying to do a DD yesterday. When your body is used to being LC and fed fat and then going about its business, it's hard to suddenly switch gears. But that's my own fault for the way I started the DD with a LC/high fat b'fast.

Anyway, my off-feeling may also be that I haven't had much caffeine if any the last 2 days when before I was drinking tons (It wasn't a real effort to cut it out, we just happened to run out of regular coffee and I haven't got anymore yet! LOL)

Though yesterday ended up being a "medium" day instead of down or up, although when I looked on the calculator on the official website for JUDDD, it said the calorie count I ended up with was still "weight loss/maintenance mode" of 45%.

According to the calculator, I can eat 1992 calories on UP and about 700 at the 35% weight loss mode which is what I will try to do on my DD tomorrow.

Today I felt like I was forcing myself to eat since I didn't feel all that good, but I made myself a sandwich for the first time in at least 3 months. I used low carb bread and to increase the calories I ate a whole can of tuna, 2 slices of cheese, a tablespoon of mayo. I even had about 5 potato chips, though I had more on my plate, I put them back in the bag when I was done cause I was already full enough.

If I felt better, I could have enjoyed my first real sandwich and a few chips for the first time since July, but oh well, I feel very full and not like I'll want any food for hours. I hope I can get in the whole calorie amount, because I have a feeling I'll wish I did on my DD tomorrow.

My calorie count is about 500 from that meal, but it was 18 - 20 carbs in one sitting, which kind of bothered me because I don't want to have a big insulin release at each meal. (On strict LC, I kept it under 15 net g.) It's been over 2 hours since I ate, and I haven't felt any sleepiness or anything, so my body must have handled it fine.

I'm still in LC mindset too, and I will probably continue to watch the fat, protein and carb % at least for a while and see what happens. I still want to get plenty of good fats and proteins on the UDs.

I haven't decided how to do my DD, but I'm leaning toward egg white omelets in the a.m. and a can of tuna eaten somehow for lunch and then veggies and a little meat at dinner. I guess I'll figure it out as I go the same way I did LC.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzcrzy View Post
I think you may find that after about 2 weeks on the calorie cycling your body will intuitively be ready for the down days. That has been my experience.
I have read that's the case for most people, and I look forward to getting there. I think it's similar to starting LC - it requires a big shift in the body, and I remember not always feeling well when I started (the LC flu) and wondering how I was going to manage on the food you're allowed. After about two weeks, I think it all came natural and food was pretty much a distant thought and I was fine.

Thanks for the encouragment
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:52 AM   #16
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You don't have to intentionally increase your carb numbers when you start out on JUDDD, so if you want to just be doing pretty strict low carb - protein & fat - on your UDs, that is certainly OK too. Don't feel that you have to incorporate bread and potato chips, etc. Some of us do, because we've really missed these things, and we also have to pay the price of some water weight regain because of it too! But others just continue on their low carb foods only, but just cycle their calories for the added weight loss JUDDD can give them.

I hope you're feeling better and better today as the day goes on, and that tomorrow is a good DD for you.

(I couldn't do without my coffee though. UDs with half & half, and DDs black or sometimes with FF coffee creamer. But I usually have my coffee.)
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:26 AM   #17
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I always have coffee too! On my DD's, I allow myself 2 tablespoons of h/h, and then drink the rest of my coffee black. There is no way I could give up coffee, nor do I desire to, lol.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHappy View Post
You don't have to intentionally increase your carb numbers when you start out on JUDDD, so if you want to just be doing pretty strict low carb - protein & fat - on your UDs, that is certainly OK too. Don't feel that you have to incorporate bread and potato chips, etc. Some of us do, because we've really missed these things, and we also have to pay the price of some water weight regain because of it too! But others just continue on their low carb foods only, but just cycle their calories for the added weight loss JUDDD can give them.

I hope you're feeling better and better today as the day goes on, and that tomorrow is a good DD for you.

(I couldn't do without my coffee though. UDs with half & half, and DDs black or sometimes with FF coffee creamer. But I usually have my coffee.)
Thanks so much, Pat, I am feeling better now.

I have to have my coffee every morning too, but the last two days it's been decaf since we ran out. I'm going shopping tonight. Today I put hwc in to up my calories, but 99% of the time, I drink coffee black. I'm having some decaf with hwc right now too.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:14 AM   #19
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Today is my first real DD and so far so good! (It's just after 10 a.m. though, lol) I think getting those extra calories in yesterday for my UD helped prepare me for this. I didn't wake up panicked or depressed that today is a DD. I'm actually calm yet excited if that makes sense.

Last night I was up late plugging in everything I'm going to eat today (DD) into ******. Now I know what to fix and how much, and what the totals will be. And the cool thing is, it's pretty low carb. Only the fat is a little lower than I would like, but hey, at least I fit some quality fats in there at all!

My calorie total should be just under 600.

Oh, another cool thing is, despite the fact that yesterday I had twice the carbs that I normally do and at least 400 calories more than I normally do, I lost a pound this morning!!

Yes, I am officially 149!!!

So to recap my JUDDD journey so far, on Wed. I had a Medium day of about 900 calories, yesterday was an Up day of about 1700 calories, and today will be a DD of about 600.

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Old 10-14-2011, 07:17 AM   #20
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Woo-Hoo Sophie, how exciting!!! I am so happy for you!!!!!
Isn't JUDDD the BEST?!!!!! Congrats on being in the 140's!!
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:00 AM   #21
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Woo-Hoo Sophie, how exciting!!! I am so happy for you!!!!!
Isn't JUDDD the BEST?!!!!! Congrats on being in the 140's!!
Yes, thank you for the congrats!
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:47 AM   #22
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It's amazing too that I got most of the day's calories in between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. and it didn't affect me negatively overnight with a gain in the a.m.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:49 AM   #23
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It's amazing too that I got most of the day's calories in between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. and it didn't affect me negatively overnight with a gain in the a.m.
Wow, that is amazing. I find anything after 6pm has the potential to cause me a gain. Yeah for you!!
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:41 AM   #24
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(wish we had a congrats smiley)! WTG and you are doing amazing!! I admire you keeping to your LC. I seem to not be able to do that most days, but it's nice to see it CAN be done!

Do you post what you are eating over on the What are you eating today thread? I would love to see how you are keeping your carbs down and fats in.

Again, WTG on the loss!
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:52 AM   #25
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Hey Sophie,
I'm New to JUDDDing also. I decided to keep my Up Day Ratios like those from EFGT=aroung 60% or more fat, around 15-2% protein and around 15-20% Carb.

My Down Days are whatever I want really so long as i find it satisfying and filling and low enough in calories to not go much over 500. My Carb Ratio tends to be higher on Down Days , but the total number is still around 50g or less and even less if I count net carbs then it's much lower.

That way I get the benefit of Low Carb on the Up Days, and the benefit of Low Calorie on the Down Days.

You don't have to be low fat for Down Days but it helps if you are a volume centric eater, meaning you feel better with a full belly. Otherwise you could have fats but your food volume will be much lower. If you choose high protein meats you could have an nice steak for dinner or a big bowl of shrimp. You could eat nothing but meat on a down day if you wanted!

It's all up to you what you do that works for you!

I post my foods daily in my journal at the bottom of my siggy . You'd be surprised at what you can enjoy on Low Days if you let your mind wander and be creative. Also check out some of the low Fat food ideas in the Simeons Recipes Only Thread for some starter Ideas.

It's great you are already losing. I weigh everyday and I have been netting losses each DDUD set.( Down Day = ounces Down, Up Day= ounces up but not as much) Today actually was the first day my weight didn't change, but since yesterday was an UD that's great!

Welcome and Have Fun with it!
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"You have to understand zat ven a vampire forgoes . . .the b-vord, zere is a process zat ve call transference? Zey force Zemselves to desire somesing else? . . .But your friend chose . . . coffee. And now he has none." "You can find him some coffee, or . . .you can keep a vooden stake and a big knife ready. You vould be doink him a favor, believe me." Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeb View Post
(wish we had a congrats smiley)! WTG and you are doing amazing!! I admire you keeping to your LC. I seem to not be able to do that most days, but it's nice to see it CAN be done!

Do you post what you are eating over on the What are you eating today thread? I would love to see how you are keeping your carbs down and fats in.

Again, WTG on the loss!
Thank you!!!

I went and posted in the Main Lobby what I was eating today. It's been a few hours since I ate and I am kinda hungry, but I'm having decaf to hold things at bay. I would like to wait 3 more hours if possible before I have dinner.

I think I was on the verge of going down another pound, but shaking things up with JUDDD seemed to give it the push it needed. And I was surprised to lose after doubling carbs, increasing calories by the hundreds, and eating most of it so late.

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Old 10-14-2011, 01:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metqa View Post
Hey Sophie,
I'm New to JUDDDing also. I decided to keep my Up Day Ratios like those from EFGT=aroung 60% or more fat, around 15-2% protein and around 15-20% Carb.

My Down Days are whatever I want really so long as i find it satisfying and filling and low enough in calories to not go much over 500. My Carb Ratio tends to be higher on Down Days , but the total number is still around 50g or less and even less if I count net carbs then it's much lower.

That way I get the benefit of Low Carb on the Up Days, and the benefit of Low Calorie on the Down Days.

You don't have to be low fat for Down Days but it helps if you are a volume centric eater, meaning you feel better with a full belly. Otherwise you could have fats but your food volume will be much lower. If you choose high protein meats you could have an nice steak for dinner or a big bowl of shrimp. You could eat nothing but meat on a down day if you wanted!

It's all up to you what you do that works for you!

I post my foods daily in my journal at the bottom of my siggy . You'd be surprised at what you can enjoy on Low Days if you let your mind wander and be creative. Also check out some of the low Fat food ideas in the Simeons Recipes Only Thread for some starter Ideas.

It's great you are already losing. I weigh everyday and I have been netting losses each DDUD set.( Down Day = ounces Down, Up Day= ounces up but not as much) Today actually was the first day my weight didn't change, but since yesterday was an UD that's great!

Welcome and Have Fun with it!
Thanks for the welcome and info, Metqa I will no doubt be checking out the threads you listed for DD foods and recipes.

My old scales just round to pounds, but that's cool that you can check your ounces too Congrats on your weight losses!
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:32 PM   #28
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Start Date: joined LCF 2003: HCG/PSMF 07/2014
Actually my scale is in KILOs. So I have to do math to figure out what the loss is in pounds for everyone on the boards to know what I'm taking about.

1Kilo = 2.2lb or 35oz
.2Kilo = 0.44lb or 7oz. This is what I would typically average per day for losses.

I was losing an average of about a dinner steak, or almost 1 stick of butter or most of a block of cream cheese!
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #29
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Hi Sophie!
You are doing so well!
We are the same height, and both so near goal!... Do you plan to use juddd for maintainence, now you are getting into the swing of it?

Hugs
Jo
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:51 PM   #30
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Start Date: LC 6/11; JUDDD 10/11; Maintenance 11/11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedi View Post
Hi Sophie!
You are doing so well!
We are the same height, and both so near goal!... Do you plan to use juddd for maintainence, now you are getting into the swing of it?

Hugs
Jo
x
Hi Joedi,

Thank you!!

It looks like we were nearly the same starting weight (I believe I was over 170# I just couldn't bear to weigh myself until I'd already started dieting, and at that point I saw 170 on the scale). And as you said, same height, nearly same age. I'm also doing moderate carb on the UD.

Yes, I hope to stick with this. I'm on my first real DD and have been hungry for the last two + hours and finally am eating my dinner now.

How long have you been on JUDDD & how is the wt. loss going on it?

Last edited by sophiethecat; 10-14-2011 at 03:52 PM..
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