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Old 09-01-2011, 10:53 AM   #1
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Anyone Doing JUDDD & Weight Watchers?

Hi all! I just ordered the JUDDD book and have been reading around on the various threads to find out more about what sounds like a very sustainable WOE. Brief history: I am a WW-er for life, it's in my brain and I don't want to reprogram because it's a lotta work! I was doing well, but my weight loss has stalled due to a variety of factors. As the program is currently written, I have way too much to eat. Plus, after a while, I want to have days where I am freer in my approach to food, and this seems like a way to occasionally have my cake, eat it, count Points and move on.

Has anyone here, or anyone that you know of, twinned the two programs? If so, how many Points did they eat on the Down Days? If I were to calculate based on a percentage of what I'd need to maintain, does this give me salad veggies as a freebie, or do they count in the total? In other words, do you have measure portions of lettuce and cukes? (This makes me wanna :blush: because I seriously love my salads)

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'd like to "do it right".
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Old 09-01-2011, 01:56 PM   #2
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Rachael, I think you could do it, if you know the calorie counts that corresponded to points. Does each point contain *so many* calories?

So you could know to put together X number of points to total 500 calories on a Down Day, and you could know to put together a bigger XXX number of points to total your Up Day calorie number.

Now, I need to preface this by saying... I don't know anything about WW. I've never done it. LOL

Maybe others can discuss this with you and give you more thoughts on the subject.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:18 PM   #3
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Okay, I got some very fuzzy figures Points-wise, using the old formula. To lose at 30%, which is midway in the losing range, my UD would be 44 Points and my DD would be 14 Points. Which would be do-able, assuming veggies such as lettuce, cabbage, celery, peppers, zucchini, etc. are free. (Are they????) At 25%, it'd be 44 & 11. Not as much fun, unless I learn to truly love egg white frittatas. (We could bond!) I am waiting for the book, but will read the threads here to see what my options could be.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:31 PM   #4
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Okay, I got some very fuzzy figures Points-wise, using the old formula. To lose at 30%, which is midway in the losing range, my UD would be 44 Points and my DD would be 14 Points. Which would be do-able, assuming veggies such as lettuce, cabbage, celery, peppers, zucchini, etc. are free. (Are they????) At 25%, it'd be 44 & 11. Not as much fun, unless I learn to truly love egg white frittatas. (We could bond!) I am waiting for the book, but will read the threads here to see what my options could be.
Eh! For you, we'll make them free.

Truthfully, if somebody can lose weight by counting every last calorie in those veggies, but they can't lose weight if they don't count them, and that makes them go so far over that it doesn't work..... then they are really using the wrong calorie (or point) figures to begin with!

Unless you really, really eat a whole bale of those veggies, I don't think it's going to make too much difference.

But the Proof is in the Pudding. If you follow JUDDD according to your points, and you are simply not losing anything, your points are too high. Then you'll know you have to scale them back. But my guess is that you'll do fine.

But, how much do you figure a point is valued at in calories? And have you made sure that your UD calorie/point numbers are high enough? Not to high, but high enough? Because, the reason I'm asking is, I have the idea that WW followers keep their calories fairly low every single day. That is, below their maintenance level of not losing. And for us, our UDs are supposed to be up at about that maintenance level. We aren't really expected to be using those UDs as weight loss days much. They're supposed to be up at our top range, without going over, to act as a pull to normalize our appetites and metabolisms. Well, supposedly. Like if you keep your calories too low all the time in order to lose weight, after awhile your body just sort of slows your metabolism down to that level to match. Don't want that happening.

Your idea of doing JUDDD while using WW points has me very intrigued!
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:58 PM   #5
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I had calculated my UD Points based on the calories given on the site's calculator. I had previously calculated how many Points I'd be eating each day at Maintenance according to the WW program, added in the extra weekly Points, and came up with roughly the same amount (I think there were 4 Points more according to the site calculator, but I left that sheet of paper on my desk at work). Normally, we eat at losing levels every day, but since we have 35 or 49 Weekly Points Allowance (depending upon which version you're using, and you can use a few, all or none of these), you could cycle lower and higher days strictly on WW. The problem is that I am seriously stuck, a.k.a. maintaining a weight that my body likes but my mind doesn't. I would like to be 25-35 pounds lower. I need to shake things up and really give my metabolism a chance to have something to burn, which seems to be one of the JUDDD underlying principles.

I think this could work! More reading is in order, along with a bit of pacing waiting for the book to arrive.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:06 PM   #6
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I had calculated my UD Points based on the calories given on the site's calculator. I had previously calculated how many Points I'd be eating each day at Maintenance according to the WW program, added in the extra weekly Points, and came up with roughly the same amount (I think there were 4 Points more according to the site calculator, but I left that sheet of paper on my desk at work). Normally, we eat at losing levels every day, but since we have 35 or 49 Weekly Points Allowance (depending upon which version you're using, and you can use a few, all or none of these), you could cycle lower and higher days strictly on WW. The problem is that I am seriously stuck, a.k.a. maintaining a weight that my body likes but my mind doesn't. I would like to be 25-35 pounds lower. I need to shake things up and really give my metabolism a chance to have something to burn, which seems to be one of the JUDDD underlying principles.

I think this could work! More reading is in order, along with a bit of pacing waiting for the book to arrive.
I continue to be intrigued. This just sounds like it should work.

How long does it take for the book to get there? Can you get one from the library? Did you go to the JUDDD site and read there? The site is truly about the same info as the book itself. Since it's such an incredibly easy plan with no food lists, etc. it really doesn't take more than two pages to tell all there is to know about it for the most part.

I'm getting impatient waiting too. LOL
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:27 PM   #7
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I had to order the book from Amazon, and it's shipping from the US to Canada. (10-14 days. Booo) I will check the university library and the hospital library. I work at a hospital and we can get inter-library loans. (Not in the public library catalogue. Boo.)

There are really no food lists? No Healthy Guidelines, #s of servings of dairy, fat, fruits & veggies? No mega-steep learning curve? Man, this is weird!

So, I think I'm starting sooner rather than later! Tomorrow, I'll finish off the WW week as usual, and I'll have my first DD on Saturday, so I can enjoy my brother's GF's birthday celebration on Sunday, then M/W/F will be DDs. and T/Th will be UDs. I've more or less retrained myself to be a healthy eater, so I'm not concerned about going hogwild on the UDs.

This is gonna be fun!!
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:54 PM   #8
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I had to order the book from Amazon, and it's shipping from the US to Canada. (10-14 days. Booo) I will check the university library and the hospital library. I work at a hospital and we can get inter-library loans. (Not in the public library catalogue. Boo.)

There are really no food lists? No Healthy Guidelines, #s of servings of dairy, fat, fruits & veggies? No mega-steep learning curve? Man, this is weird!

So, I think I'm starting sooner rather than later! Tomorrow, I'll finish off the WW week as usual, and I'll have my first DD on Saturday, so I can enjoy my brother's GF's birthday celebration on Sunday, then M/W/F will be DDs. and T/Th will be UDs. I've more or less retrained myself to be a healthy eater, so I'm not concerned about going hogwild on the UDs.

This is gonna be fun!!
Woo Hoo! Glad you're joining us!

Yeah, no food lists that I've ever seen or heard about. Period. As far as anything I've ever read about it anywhere, even at other sites, you could do the Twinkie food plan if you wanted to. LOL

Especially at LCF, we're really used to food lists and phases of diet plans and carb levels, etc., so being able to pretty much eat whatever you wish to include for your own needs and desires is sort of a new thought. Obviously, smart dietary choices are smart dietary choices, but if fruit doesn't cause you a problem, enjoy. And if bread or dairy or whatever doesn't cause you a problem, enjoy. Or for myself, if chocolate cake doesn't cause me a problem, well, you get the idea. LOL

Most of us start out eating about like we were on our last diet plan, and then either stick with that or add in a few things we had been missing, and then we see how it goes. If you are ruining it for yourself, you can sure back off quickly if necessary, but truly... this plan is pretty much just calorie based in a strong alternating cycle, so design your diet as you feel is healthful for you.

I'll look forward to hearing what your food choices are, and any new recipes you have for us. Welcome!
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:25 PM   #9
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It's on! I did some math, survived my first DD and am almost thru my second. As soon as I Google some Russian bride pics, I'll post my before and afters. No, that ain't right....

Starting weight: 169.9 (urghhhhh)
Goal weight: 139.9 (Hot-cha-cha!)

I played with the WW Points allowances and came up with the following facts and theories:
The average person on WW gets 29 PointsPlus daily, as well as 49 Weekly Points Plus Allowance Points, or a total of 203 + 49, making 252 weekly potential Points. Maintenance for most people would be 35 + 7 (1/7th of the weeklies) = 42. So I chose that for my UD amount. The DD is 14, which is 1/3 of the UD, and the MD is 28, splitting the difference. 42 for 3 days plus 14 for 3 days plus 28 = 196, which divided by 7 gives us.... wait for it!... 28. Now, if you haven't been rendered comatose by my numerical frolics, you'll recall that the level for weight loss in WW's official party line is 29. Close enough! Add the science of cycling, and you have what should be a winning recipe.

I plan to keep the basic tenets of the WW program as written (water, exercise, whole grains, lean proteins, and most fruits and veggies are 0 Points.) But I am tweaking it to accommodate my need for more of a structure and it sounds foolproof! I will be more than properly nourished on the DDs because of the F&V, and I will also be comfortably full because these are known as Power Foods, which are more filling because of the fiber. I can't wait to WI next Saturday!
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:34 PM   #10
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I think you plan is going to work great for you and I'm SO interested to see how it goes!

Please keep us posted!!

BTW............waiting for the Russian bride before and after!! HMMMM...did I hear you say your name was "Heidi"?

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Old 09-18-2011, 08:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rachelocity View Post
It's on! I did some math, survived my first DD and am almost thru my second. As soon as I Google some Russian bride pics, I'll post my before and afters. No, that ain't right....

OMG you owe me a new keyboard!!!!

I am a graduate or a flunkie, depending on how you want to view it, of both LC and more recently, WW. I lost on both but failed at maintenance. JUDDD is looking very logical to me for a lot of reasons, and yesterday was my first DD.

I just wanted to say that it sure looks to me like you did a logical job of trying to translate the points. (So Happy and anyone else curious, there is not a direct correlation between calories and points, so it's really not straight up math) I just wanted to wish you well and add myself to your list of fans! How is it going so far?

There was a lot I loved about WW.

DG
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:55 AM   #12
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I wish Rachelocity would stop by and tell us how she's doing! It seems like the concept should be workable.

Rachel, are you still doing JUDDD? And with the WW points concept guiding your days?
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #13
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Hi! Sorry for disappearing - I'm still JUDDDing, and, believe it or not, it's working! I lost 1 pound in the past 2 weeks, which, as a post-menopausal turtle, is pretty darned impressive. (Okay, I impress easily...)

DDs are hard, despite the free fruits and veggies. At night, I'm physically hungry, especially if I've walked a lot. So I find myself eating 16-18 PPs instead of the planned 14, which may incorporate the APs I earn that day. Or I end up "borrowing" the PPs for the late-night snack from the next day's UD quota. In some ways, UDs are even harder than DDs, because I am so used to living on so-called "WW-type" food that I have to actually think what to eat to make up the quota.

Still, there's the freedom to know that on Wednesday when I go out to Cheeburger Cheeburger with my DS, I can have blue cheese on my veggie burger (I'm semi-kosher), and have a few onion rings without the Earth spinning off its axis. After dinner, it's traditional for us to walk over to Ben and Jerry's. This is working really well for me in terms of lifestyle, because I can plan to be spontaneous.

Oh yeah - MDs are what I would normally be on, sticking to the WW Program As Written. So on weeks when I have a lot of eating out or family dinners planned, I'll have 3 MDs, 2 UDs and 2 DDs, and still come out ahead.
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:47 PM   #14
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..........I find myself eating 16-18 PPs instead of the planned 14, which may incorporate the APs I earn that day. Or I end up "borrowing" the PPs for the late-night snack from the next day's UD quota. In some ways, UDs are even harder than DDs, because I am so used to living on so-called "WW-type" food that I have to actually think what to eat to make up the quota..........
Yay! Glad you've lost the pound, and even though that's slow, it's better than going in the other direction, isn't it! And since you don't count the calories in fruits and vegetables on WW, and consider them *free*.. you are probably eating at a higher DD calorie level because of that, so considering that, you are probably doing pretty good. Especially since you are only getting in a couple of Down Days per week anyway as opposed to the normal three or four.

The only thing I noticed was you saying you end up "borrowing" points (calories) from the next UD to increase the amount of food you eat on your current DD, and that would really interfere with weight loss for me if I did that. That sort of defeats the purpose of the DD. LOL That really is supposed to be a day of fasting (well, semi-fasting, I guess you'd call it), so the low calories or points in your case are part of making the weight loss happen. 'Cause the following Up Day isn't supposed to be at diet level calories at all.

JUDDD doesn't have any free foods, but the UD is almost like a free day.

Glad you checked in, and continued good luck doing your combined plan. Sounds like it makes going out to eat easy to work into your lifestyle with your son too! We don't have a Ben & Jerry's around here, and our local Baskin Robbins closed down too, but occasionally DH and I go up to a little French cafe near here, and they make their own fabulous ice cream, so it's one of my delights!
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:29 PM   #15
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The only thing I noticed was you saying you end up "borrowing" points (calories) from the next UD to increase the amount of food you eat on your current DD, and that would really interfere with weight loss for me if I did that. That sort of defeats the purpose of the DD. LOL
Yes and no, said the Queen of Rationalization! If I wake up after midnight and need a glass of milk and piece of cheese to help me get back to sleep, I would ordinarily count it as the last food of the day. But I am counting it as the first food of the next day instead, because it's after midnight. As Sheldon Cooper's less-flexible sister when ti comes to WW, this is a Big Deal in counting! Plus, after alomost 3 years on WW, habits, even healthy ones, are hard to break.

And not to make you toooooooo jealous, but B&J has an ice cream with the ingredients for 7-Layer Coconut Bars mixed in. To. Die. For. And so rich that I can't even finish the kiddie-sized portion!
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:57 PM   #16
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Yes and no, said the Queen of Rationalization! If I wake up after midnight and need a glass of milk and piece of cheese to help me get back to sleep, I would ordinarily count it as the last food of the day. But I am counting it as the first food of the next day instead, because it's after midnight. As Sheldon Cooper's less-flexible sister when ti comes to WW, this is a Big Deal in counting! Plus, after alomost 3 years on WW, habits, even healthy ones, are hard to break.

And not to make you toooooooo jealous, but B&J has an ice cream with the ingredients for 7-Layer Coconut Bars mixed in. To. Die. For. And so rich that I can't even finish the kiddie-sized portion!
Ah...... I see. OK. I guess it works out that way too. LOL

And if you keep mentioning 7-Layer Coconut Bars in ice cream, I might have to make a trip to the grocery store to see if that one is packaged and available. I know they carry a few of the flavors, but don't think I've seen that one. SOUNDS FABULOUS. OMG!

Hope you're having a great day up there. It's warm here, but in a couple more weeks the leaves will start turning color and it'll cool down. That's the time of year I love the most. Have a great evening.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:22 PM   #17
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Bad news, it's only in the ice cream shops. But we already have the changing of the leaves starting, so we'll be cold waaaay before you. I am not a winter fan, but I guess after 55 years here I'm acclimatized. LOL!
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:28 PM   #18
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. But we already have the changing of the leaves starting, so we'll be cold waaaay before you. I am not a winter fan, but I guess after 55 years here I'm acclimatized. LOL!
Oh..
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:11 AM   #19
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I'll take some pics of Mount Royal when the leaves are in full colour, Pat. This is practically in my back yard since I live in the downtown core!

Today's DD plan is: Coffee, steel-cut oats and an apple for breakfast, leftover roasted veggies, salad, and cheese with toast for lunch, a grapefruit some time in the afternoon to hold me over to dinner, and the Main Event will include shirataki macaroni shaped noodles, veggie ground round, tomato sauce, lots of veggies and a smiling me at the end of it! So far, this'll be 11 PPs, of the 14, which allows me a modest evening snack to accompany the Glee premiere episode! Probably the grapefruit which I didn't get around to eating earlier, and Coconut Chai Tea with soymilk. (I'm a bit of a leftover hippie-dippie type and proud of it!!)

Tomorrow's an Up Day, and I'm looking forward to having some food fun. Tonight's other projects, however, include buying glucomannan because it just sounds like something I "need" - the group in the study lost an average of 5.5 pounds in 2 months without changing their diet or exercise levels! With the metabolic repair of JUDDD, I would be at least that much ahead of the game.

Now, for some interesting facts: I was following WW as written and actually gaining weight. I think my body was accustomed to eating the same level of Points and the same foods basically, after 2.5 years on the program. So, what sounds like a very modest 0.5 lb/week weight loss is in fact doubled based on how the scales were going upwards. Reversing the gaining trend plus adding more in the losing column is a Very Big Deal! And my formula of eating 1/2 losing calorie-levels on a DD, Maintenance plus splurges on the UD, and MDs at regular Points target levels is relatively easy to follow.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:00 AM   #20
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I'll be looking forward to photos of your area. I do expect you'll get beautiful fall color before it gets started down here. I was visiting with my DD, who is in Colorado, and she wants some pics of our fall color here in Iowa. She misses the reds and oranges. She said mostly they just get the yellow shades.


I was just thinking about your weight results that you posted about. It's such an interesting topic. I do think there is value in this practice of alternating calorie intake between very high and very low amounts. At least, there seems to be.

Any time I've had slower weight loss than I was hoping for, my first impulse has always been to lower calories on all days, and yet I think that is precisely what stimulates more slowdown of my metabolism. Like it's a circle.. it slows down, so I withhold more, which makes it slow even lower, which makes me desperately cut down even further.....

That seemed to happen exactly that way with my carbohydrate intake too. After awhile of holding my carbs so low, I pretty much found myself with some bad carb sensitivity, even to just such simple things as too many low carb veggies, for God's Sake! I managed to promote quite a carb sensitivity in myself, but I gradually have overcome that and brought myself back into a bit more normal response. I'm pretty happy where I sit right now on that carb ladder.

I see that you like the steel-cut oats. My sister loves those too. She lost a huge amount of weight on OA and has kept it off for years. She usually has a big bowl of oatmeal most mornings. And yogurt. And apples.

I enjoy a bowl of oatmeal pretty often too, but only get the plain old fashioned oatmeal because it's so much cheaper, and I have a small grocery budget. LOL

Speaking of apples, I bought a bag of Gala and another bag of Braeburn apples. I'm going to fix one of each and then do a blind taste test of them. I never can remember whether I like these kinds or not! LOL Mostly, I like any apple that isn't a Delicious.

Good luck on your DD today.

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Old 09-20-2011, 03:03 PM   #21
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Several years ago there was an article in Woman's World called the Wendie Plan for Weight Watchers. Google it. It was using low points and then high points to get the weight loss going again. There seem to be several articles on-line. I think it is a great idea for you.
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:47 PM   #22
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Since JUDDD is simply cycling calories, the Wendie Plan for WW, which cycles points, should provide the same effect. For someone doing WW, it would be easier to follow, since it uses the 'points' system.

Some time ago, someone posted that when she was stalled on WW, she found the Wendie Plan online and found it worked perfectly to get her losing again.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #23
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Rachel, congrats on your loss! Heck, I'll take a pound in the right direction! Please pass me one!

Thanks for updating your experience. I'm still reading everything I can get my hands on about IF and ADF and hopefully will come up with what is workable for me. There are so many things I love about WW. So I love reading about your experiment!

DG
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #24
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I remember the Wendie Plan, actually - thanks for refreshing my memory. But it may not be okay for me because one of the problems on WW is that I was gaining on the program as written. Not just stalling, but gaining. My thyroid's okay, so are all my other blood values but the WW program as written is too much food for me.

More geekery in 5-4-3-2-1: Daily Points on the Wendie Plan (1st column) vs. my JUDDD Math (2nd column):
Sunday: 29/14 (DD)
Monday: 37/42 (UD)
Tuesday: 31/14 (DD)
Wednesday: 49-51/42 (UD)
Thursday: 29/28 (MD)
Friday:39/14 (DD)
Saturday:36/28 (MD)

Total on Wendie Plan: 251 vs. 203 on JUDDD. That is enough to make the difference between losing and gaining for me, not to mention that there are no really low days on the WP. So I am sticking with JUDDD, which is oddly easier for me. Oh yeah - the MDs are to accommodate social situations, since the total Points of two MDs is that of one UD + 1 DD.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:27 PM   #25
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Originally Posted by Rachelocity View Post
I remember the Wendie Plan, actually - thanks for refreshing my memory. But it may not be okay for me because one of the problems on WW is that I was gaining on the program as written. Not just stalling, but gaining. My thyroid's okay, so are all my other blood values but the WW program as written is too much food for me.

More geekery in 5-4-3-2-1: Daily Points on the Wendie Plan (1st column) vs. my JUDDD Math (2nd column):
Sunday: 29/14 (DD)
Monday: 37/42 (UD)
Tuesday: 31/14 (DD)
Wednesday: 49-51/42 (UD)
Thursday: 29/28 (MD)
Friday:39/14 (DD)
Saturday:36/28 (MD)

Total on Wendie Plan: 251 vs. 203 on JUDDD. That is enough to make the difference between losing and gaining for me, not to mention that there are no really low days on the WP. So I am sticking with JUDDD, which is oddly easier for me. Oh yeah - the MDs are to accommodate social situations, since the total Points of two MDs is that of one UD + 1 DD.
I LOVE Geekery! Yay!

I'm following your use of the JUDDD cycling combined with your WW points with a lot of interest. We visited once earlier about you being the Guinea Pig for this concept and experiment, so if this works as well as you'd think it should, you will be the author of the Rachelocity Plan!
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:09 PM   #26
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Start Date: This time: 7/23/14
Rachelocity Plan(tm)!! I love it!!

DG
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:32 PM   #27
Why wait, just do it NOW!
 
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Rachelocity Plan(tm)!! I love it!!

DG
GREAT LABEL!!!
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:59 AM   #28
Big Yapper!!!!
 
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I don't think Rachelocity Multinational Inc. could ever afford to even buy lunch for the team of copyright lawyers that I'd need, but I'm happy to be a rogue JUDDD BUDDD, or rogue Point-er Sister, both actually! Whatever I'm doing is working, because my tighty-whities aren't tight any more! Nothing as h0tt as droopy granny panties, right?????
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:06 AM   #29
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Originally Posted by Rachelocity View Post
I don't think Rachelocity Multinational Inc. could ever afford to even buy lunch for the team of copyright lawyers that I'd need, but I'm happy to be a rogue JUDDD BUDDD, or rogue Point-er Sister, both actually! Whatever I'm doing is working, because my tighty-whities aren't tight any more! Nothing as h0tt as droopy granny panties, right?????


It won't be long before it'll be time to buy some of those little Victoria's Secret panties worn by the runway angels.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:19 AM   #30
Big Yapper!!!!
 
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Can't wait to see that day, Pat! I may have to strut!
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