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Old 06-22-2010, 09:55 PM   #211
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Jumping in here.

My Dr. Chris Camelleri of the Holtorf Medical Group who I cannot say enough good things about and consider a leading expert on Hypothyroid has no problem with JUDD. When I ran it by him he said he thought it was a good idea because your body can't adjust to the low calories in the daily increments JUDD provides.
I saw our good doc today and I thought about saying something like, "My friend Kisha is so happy she found you and is feeling so much better." Then I thought about how the rest of that conversation might go... "Kisha who? Um, Kisha... Kisha... Kisha the Pirate." I kept my mouth shut.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:58 PM   #212
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Leo, just chiming in here to wish you well. Do what you have to do to heal. JUDDD will still be here when you are ready.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:52 PM   #213
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Gina, it's so funny that I never thought of JUDDD as extreme nor did I understand that others saw it that way until today. It's seems so reasonable to me, lol. It seems very natural to me too. Granted, the fluctuating calories is being forced but I know people who eat this way rather naturally. They forget to eat all day and it happens a couple of times a week. They just get busy or whatever and only eat a light dinner. Yeah, my skinny friends are like that, lol. Look at all the IFer's we have here. I guess I see it like I see those systems. Clearly not everyone thinks like me (us).
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:55 AM   #214
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You're right, Minnas! I think of JUDDD as extreme because I rarely missed a meal in my life

But in February, I traveled with a friend who has been a normal weight her entire life, and she just didn't eat unless she was hungry, and skipped dinner a couple of times a week because she just didn't "feel like" eating. I was able to do fairly accurate DDs while I was with her because she, too, ate very little some days.

She is not trying to lose weight (no need to); this is her 'normal' way of eating. Perhaps JUDDD works for me because it reflects a more 'normal' WOE than has been my habit all these years?
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:18 AM   #215
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593568p887g2dyd0.gif Good morning everyone!


I have had some just plain rude and stupid responses to JUDDD. There's no other way to put it. We have a saying at work: "Just say it!" Well, that about sums it up: rude and stupid! I agree with Gina about liking JUDDD for the freedom. That's why I choose to do JUDDD. When I did my 1400 calorie a day experiment, I was hungry all the time. At least with JUDDD I'm only hungry half of the time. And, actually, I don't mind my Down Days. It is not starvation to wait until an evening meal to have a nice 500 calorie entree'. While I am not doing low carb, my carbs have been cut drastically b ecause of the down days, and the fact that I don't binge on Up Days. My computer is painfully slow, so I hope this gets posted.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:01 AM   #216
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Were the responses at work or on this board? Or from family and friends?

What's odd is that when I finally told my sister what I was doing, I thought she'd tell me that I'm nuts, but she thought JUDDD was a great idea! In fact, she and my niece tried it for a while, and they even occasionally go back to it. And this was all before I'd lost significant weight, so it wasn't that she was impressed with my loss--it was the structure of JUDDD that she liked.

My sister works for a neurosurgeon, and when I met her at her office last Friday (just before my melt down), he was amazed at my weight loss (hasn't seen me in about 2 years) and asked what I was doing. My sister jumped in and explained JUDDD, and his immediate response-"What a brilliant idea. At least every other day you can eat fairly normally, and I can see how that would really help." This is a doctor who struggles with his own weight problems, and he immediately realized how JUDDD would be good.

So when I get responses like that from medical professionals, I don't worry about anyone else.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:21 AM   #217
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I'll play it safe and decline to say "where" the rude and stupid remarks came from. I will say that when I have spoken to people about JUDDD, a more favorable and almost immediate response has been: "I think I could do that!" I really don't think JUDDD is extreme or drastic. I wait until 5:00 pm on most down days for a very nice meal of 500 calories, the next day I have whatever I want for 2100 calories. Once in a while I go quite high on Up Days and still manage to lose. On down days when I have to work, I space out my calories. This is actually more difficult for me personally.

Anyway, Leo, I hope everything goes well for your appointment. I'm glad you have good insurance. You're a good sport to keep posting and cheering everyone else on even though you are not doing JUDDD at the moment.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #218
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I saw our good doc today and I thought about saying something like, "My friend Kisha is so happy she found you and is feeling so much better." Then I thought about how the rest of that conversation might go... "Kisha who? Um, Kisha... Kisha... Kisha the Pirate." I kept my mouth shut.
OMG I know right! LOL. I'm PMing you my last name now! LOL.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:23 AM   #219
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I'm guilty of calling JUDD extreme. What I mean by that though is that its more extreme than just low carb. I mean I CANNOT LOSE weight on regular induction. If I could/did belive me I'd just do induction!
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:09 AM   #220
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One thing about JUDDD, the most appealing thing probably, is that it seems to fit well with my general life theme of mastery of self. I have at many points in my life been dependent on things, behaviors, foods, etc and that is unappealing to me now. Looking back I see that most of these dependencies did not serve me well. While I generally live and have no problem with living a hedonistic life - life is meant to be enjoyed!-I loathe dependence. Surely you don't get to be 300 lbs without some level of dependence on food. Now, I know for certain that most of my dependence sprung from my biochemistry but some of it was and is in my head. I actually fear being without food. I fear hunger. I will eat prophylactically at times to avoid the unpleasantness of hunger. I see JUDDD as a way to challenge myself and my dependence on food (and all that goes with it) in a controlled manner. To make the conscious choice to sit with my hunger and accept it while unappealing on many levels is also quite an appealing thought when being done for my own greater good . To allow, even embrace, some sort of ebb and flow of food in my life, contrived though it may be, strikes me as a good thing. To continue to understand and master my biological and psychological urges because to act on them does not serve me or my long term goals well seems to me to be a very positive thing and a natural continuation of my personal journey. It feels to me like a worthwhile exercise to strengthen my spirit and my mind as well as my body.

Of course, having said all of that, I have yet to actually do it so I'm basically just talking out of my you know what right now, lol. Oh, and yeah, I want to lose 20 lbs. Can't forget that part!!
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:10 PM   #221
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Hey, where did my post go?

Anyway, I wrote earlier that I completely understand where you are coming from Minnas. It took me some time to figure out that I can BE hungry and be OK. We used to talk here about how normal hunger is just our body's way of warning us it is going to tap into our fat stores. I say Tap Away!

Maybe I don't think of JUDDD as too extreme because I grew up with a mom who dieted by staying under 500 calories every day. She swore that was the only way she could lose. She is on thyroid meds now. Cause or effect? We have no way of knowing.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #222
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Hey, where did my post go?

Anyway, I wrote earlier that I completely understand where you are coming from Minnas. It took me some time to figure out that I can BE hungry and be OK. We used to talk here about how normal hunger is just our body's way of warning us it is going to tap into our fat stores. I say Tap Away!

Maybe I don't think of JUDDD as too extreme because I grew up with a mom who dieted by staying under 500 calories every day. She swore that was the only way she could lose. She is on thyroid meds now. Cause or effect? We have no way of knowing.
I have a friend who actually loves feeling hunger because she has somehow managed to see it as a sign that her body is using its reserves and so she's burning fat. Oh how I wish to get to that place. Feels like Oz to me right now, lol.

Wow, your mom regularly was at 500 calories? Ugh. I swear I am so conflicted on this issue. While I think self-denial can be a powerfully empowering thing I can bring myself to tears thinking of how much time and energy and spirit has been wasted by women over the years trying to deny their bodies, their minds, their desires simply to conform to some arbitrary standard that is unloving and unforgiving. I wonder what our world would be like if women truly had the freedom to use their energy and focus for other things besides keeping their weight within society's dictate of what is acceptable.
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Old 06-23-2010, 03:28 PM   #223
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Gina-
It could be that your mother was already hypo but undiagnosed, and she had to reduce calories so drastically to keep from gaining--i.e., she might lose at 500, but would gain at 1000. I know that when my T3 tanked, I was only eating about 1000 cal a day (pre-JUDDD), and I gained 10 lbs in 2 weeks.

That's probably how the idea that low calorie diets ruin your thyroid came to be such a strong principle. It may actually be the other way around--undiagnosed hypothyroidism results in either a starvation diet or massive weight gain.

Minnas-
What you wrote about your relationship to hunger and desire for control is exactly how I felt when I first heard about JUDDD. I honestly didn't think I could do it because I would be anxious at the thought of not being able to eat. JUDDD gave me exactly the control you describe wanting to have. It was the most amazing thing. Just a couple of successful DDs, and I felt that I was controlling my food intake whereas all my life I had felt controlled by food. As I told you previously, the psychological benefits of JUDDD have been amazing for me.
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Old 06-23-2010, 03:34 PM   #224
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How did your appointment go today, Leo?
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:42 AM   #225
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19_trein.gif Good morning everyone! Yesterday's DD went well. I was a little hungry until my meal at 5:00 PM, but just told myself it's good discipline not to eat upon every impulse to do so. My ground beef, cabbage and onions carried me through the night and I slept quite well. My body has been releasing a lot of water the past couple of days, so I anticipate a weight loss on weigh-in day. Tomorrow's DD will be a 14 hour shift at work. So, I'm going to bring some homemade green bean soup and hard boiled eggs. I got my July work schedule, and I'm a little disappointed. There are a couple of weeks where I have two days that I work only four hours in the evening. This stretches my work week to four days instead of three. I knew my three days a week schedule was too good to to be true, and wouldn't last.

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Old 06-24-2010, 07:26 AM   #226
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Hi Redeemed-

I got back from my gastro too late to post anything here. He won't know anything for sure before he sees the hospital tests (which I have to send for), but he's already ordered MORE tests. I went for the bloodwork this morning.

I now have to get an MRI that focuses on the bile ducts because he thinks that I passed a small stone that aggravated the pancreas. No stones showed on any of the other tests I had (gall bladder looked fine), but he says that if it was only one stone, it would have disappeared and not shown anything on the tests. He suggested that the MRI will prove that I need to get my gall bladder out, which would not be a problem for me. I had serious gall bladder attacks for a while about ten years ago and wanted to get it out, but all tests showed that it was 'normal.'

I resolved that problem by eating very low fat for a few months, and then I was able to increase my fat a little. I never eat high fat anyway. The current recommendation is similar--very low fat for a while and no alcohol at all. Neither is a problem for me, since I drink a glass of wine perhaps every month or two, and I can easily limit fat.

You're right about the water--you should show a loss. I had an 8 lb gain when I went to one of my doctor's last week, and I lost it by the next morning. Water retention can be so annoying
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:02 AM   #227
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Leo I don't mean to minimize your distress; however, I'm glad that's all the doctor suspects. Two times when I had the flu, my body would not digest fat. I'll spare you the graphics on how I know. I've had MRI testing and it was quick and painless - just a huge camera. However, if you are at all clostrophobic, you might want to tell the doctor. Eight pounds of water overnight? OMG! Hope you're feeling better.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:24 AM   #228
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Leo, I hope all goes well with your new tests. I don't have a gallbladder anymore and I don't miss it. Do you think your Diet Coke debacle had anything to do with your pancreas?

I think you are right about my mom being hypo all along. As long as I can remember (or was old enough to know about such things) she has gone to the doctor complaining of all the classic hypo symptoms. She has been on more "mild antidepressants" than I can count. Right no she is on a small dose of T4 and still feeling bad. Her doctor says, "You are on thyroid meds, so if they aren't helping that isn't the problem." I can't believe how many doctors practice medicine through Rx trial and error. "Try this, if it doesn't work it must be something else so come back and see me." It is a 3 hour drive for her, but she is going to see my thyroid doc soon.

Redeemed, what do you do? That is an interesting work schedule.

UD for me today and I am going to spend the night at my folk's house to drop of DS17. DS14 has already been there with all the other cousins for a couple of weeks. The older one was hoping to get a summer job, but no one is biting so he decided he wants to go to grandma's like everybody else. I'll get home Friday and then DH and I are going hiking & camping Saturday morning to Sunday afternoon. I'll try to post a weigh-in before we go. I had a look at the scale this morning and it is looking good to finally ditch the weight I gained and be back to my siggy #.

I had a good visit with my thyroid doc Tuesday. My RT3 is down, but my T3 is still pretty low so he upped my T3 meds a bit more. I started the new dose yesterday and didn't feel like a nap and went to bed nice & warm.

Leo, I talked to him about vigerous exercise & hypo and he said as long as you are are diagnosed and being treated there is no reason not to exercise as much as you feel like. He said not to overdo, but that would be the same advice he would give anyone, thyroid patient or not. He is an exercisor though and I have noticed over the years of seeing different doctors their advice seems to change based on what the particular doctor does. The ones that don't exercise themselves, don't put too much emphasis on it. I thought I got lucky with my GP becuase even though she doesn't run, her husband is a marathoner. Turns out she thinks we are both crazy and should quit & take up walking.

I think the "no vigerous exercise" advice might be something like the conventional wisdom that low cal diets ruin your thyroid. If your thyroid is bad & untreated, it is so miserable to try to exercise and you are so wiped out afterward if you do manage to do it, it feels like you are making yourself worse. Just a theory.

Have a great JUDDD day everyone!

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Old 06-24-2010, 08:52 AM   #229
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Gina I'm a pediatric home health care nurse. I work mostly with kids who have respiratory problems. Schedules can change according to the needs of family, other nurses and agency needs. So, I have to be very flexible where my hours are concerned. Hope you have fun hiking. UD for me also. I am liking JUDDD more and more the longer I stay on plan.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:35 AM   #230
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Redeemed-
Thanks for your advice, but I'm an old pro with MRIs. When I had to have my first one several years ago, I was terrified, but a good friend (cancer survivor and thus experienced with the MRI) gave me the best advice--never open your eyes!

I've been tempted at times, but I've always followed her advice and haven't had problems. I think that if I actually saw my situation, I'd freak out.

Gina-
I agree with you that the exercise/thyroid issue is probably the same as with diet; i.e., people with untreated hypo are exhausted from even mild exercise.

My own lack of endurance is probably more age than hypo, although it's really relative because I've noticed that I swim longer than many of the younger men in the pool

I doubt that my Diet Coke experience affected this event. Apparently, the only substance that directly affects the pancreas is alcohol, which is why pancreatitis is the disease of alcoholics--and I don't drink.

I was worried about the psyllium I've be using recently for regularity, but my gastro said that wasn't an issue at all. The only food that could have been causative is if I ate a very high fat meal that triggered the gall bladder to react because many cases of pancreatitis are related to the gall bladder. But I don't eat high fat at all, and for the week preceding this, I didn't have anything at all unusual.

I see the doctor again on 4 August (because I'll be away from 3-18 July), so I hope I'll know more then.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:42 PM   #231
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I think I'm destined to be a life-long JUDD-er.

As you know, I haven't been keeping DDs this week to 'recover' from my hospital episode, but I find that I miss them!

So even though there's only a week left before I leave on my cruise, I'm going to try for 3 DDs next week. My body seems to want them--I think I'm missing the clean, empty feeling I get on DDs.

Could JUDD be addictive? If so, that's the addiction I'd like to have.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:02 AM   #232
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DD here today--I made a big pot of bone broth and I bought a package of greens at TJ's so I am going to sip on that all day today--then dinner out tonight, but I have already looked at the menu and decided what I am going to have--

Have a great day everyone--

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Old 06-25-2010, 04:35 PM   #233
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Have a nice dinner out Ouis!. I'm glad you're staying with us, and ready to think about JUDDDing. I agree with Leo, I can see myself staying with JUDDD for the long haul - as long as I keep losing. I'm eating the foods I enjoy; and my DD's are actually healthier than my regular days before re-starting JUDDD. Even though my doc said my lab values for glucose were normal, I would like to see my levels lower. I have cut out certain foods. For example, strawberries instead of O.J. on UD's because strawberries are higher in Vit. C and lower in sugar. Once a week I'll treat myself to a treat - and a small serving. This is a big improvement for me. This DD is turning out a little difficult. Somehow green bean soup and hard boiled eggs just didn't "cut it" today. Oh well, it's almost bedtime.
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:24 AM   #234
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Weugh In

428270sh42acnblr.gif Good morning Juddders!

Down one pound. I thought it would be more, but I'll take it. It's better than having the scale go up or stalling. I didn't check the scale during the week, so I don't know if there were fluctuations that might have indicated more weight loss. I look thinner and my close are getting looser. Have a great day everyone!
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:43 AM   #235
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Congratulations Redeemed!! Every pound gone is a pound closer to the goal!

Thank goodness for weekends!
I have been so busy this past week that the DD's weren't bad at all. Next week will be busy as well. That helps a lot. I am actually starting to get a bit of energy for a change.

Its a mind game I think. Last night as I laid in bed around 11pm, the thought hit me that if I was really hungry, technically, in 1 hr. it would be the weekend and an UD!
I wasn't hungry and wasn't getting out of bed but ... LOL

Happy weekend everyone!
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:58 AM   #236
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oh jlp--I have played those juddd games before, lol! The mind is devious and must not be taken too seriously!

Had a good day yesterday and beautiful fish and sauteed broccolini for dinner with an appetizer of french radishes with salt and anchovy butter (which was simply delicious)--everyone enjoyed dessert, and I came home and had my 2 squares of 99% chocolate (from cost plus--highly recommended!).

I have really upped the intensity of my exercise lately, adding in HITT in addition to my weighlifting and circuit traiining classes. I have also upped my UD carbs a bit (berries, yogurt, sweet potatoes) which makes me anxious--but seems to be necessary with the workout stuff. I have actually decreased cardio as I have increased HITT. So it is all a new world for me--and my body is changing, and I suspect adding in the carbs is good for my thyroid given my activity--but I am such a LoCarber that it all makes me quite neurotic--still not weighing, but going by the fit of my clothes--which seems to change on any given day--quite schizophrenic!

Redeemed--good work on the 1 lb! You are like Leo--steadily makiing progress--

Leo--hope you are feeling better--and looking forward to your vacation--

I am heading off to dinner in Napa tonight--

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Old 06-26-2010, 08:05 AM   #237
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Congratulations on the loss! I'm not weighing this week, although I was weighed at the doctor's on Thursday and seem to be just holding steady. I've had a few more carbs than usual with this low fat, and this morning, I actually had half a bagel (I should not have grains at all) because I bought some for company and just couldn't resist.

Even though I'm trying to stay at no more than 1000 cal a day (which was my JUDDD 'average') I really think I need the alternation of DDs to actually lose. There's something about the IF effect that just seems to work better.

Ouis-
Your exercise program sounds terrific, and, as you probably know, that's the kind of thing that's recommended these days. Despite my half bagel this morning, I'm as carb-phobic as you are, and that might not be a good thing for either of us.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:18 PM   #238
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JLP Definitely a mind game!

Wow, Ouis! You sure eat some fancy food! I have never done a DD at a restaurant - don't know if I could. I wish you and Leo could pass some of your carb phobia my direction.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:24 PM   #239
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Another report on my experiment--UD today and a fabulous dinner out in Napa--other than a few bites of Frito Misto, vlc--have been very very very gradually increasing some carbs at breakfast and lunch (mostly berries, dairy, and a little quinoa)--then lowcarb for afternoon snack and dinner--seems to be working in that I am not gaining anything more than a little bit of temporary bloat that then goes right away. I'll keep y'all posted!
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:41 AM   #240
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WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: December 2008
Hey guys! I'm still here....

Glad to see you all are still here (well minus a few). I'm coming back; I stopped JUDDDing about 6 weeks ago and managed to "find" all of the 16 lbs. I "lost" when I was alternating days. I just woke up one day and could not bear the thought of yet another DD! Even after I bought some cute new clothes; and I ate way too much and have come to really dislike the full, bloated feeling in my belly all the time. But I'm back mostly for the improved breathing! isn't that strange? I've really been struggling lately; the least amount of exertion, like going up the stairs, leaves me gasping even after I've used my inhalers etc. So, I need to come back to JUDDD so I can breathe again and feel really good. Tomorrow will be my first DD. Congratulations Leo! Great job, but sorry to hear about the pancreatitis (sp?). Ouis, thanks for the great DD ideas; keep them coming. Way to go Redeemed! I'm so happy for you - KUTGW!!! Have a great week guys!!!
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