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Old 06-21-2010, 02:20 PM   #181
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I hope you enjoy those shrimp (when you get to have them), Leo. Are you going to broil them to reduce calories?

I'm at work today and get to use my lap top. Will stop at the store on my way home and get some green beans and make that mock split pea soup for supper as I have 300 calories left to use. How do those of you who use psyllium husks get it into your diet? I have used it once (in the pancakes) and thought it was effective. Do you only use it once a week or daily - not to get too personal, but I don't want to over do it. Would it work to put it in soup do you t hink?
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:45 PM   #182
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I thought about putting off my JUDDD adventure for a bit but decided to go ahead so today is my first official down day.

B: Coffee with almond milk
L: Zucchini frittata with egg whites
S: 3 bean salad (Actually 2 bean - LC and low calorie of course)
D: Chicken with caulirice
S: More 3 bean salad

I'm coming in right under 500 calories with what I consider adequate protein. So far, so good.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #183
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I changed out my snack and instead had shirataki noodles with a laughing cow wedge melted in. Yum! What a nice little 55 calorie snack (less if you don't count the fiber calories). I think I got the idea from one of you guys but I can't remember who it was. Thank you whoever you are! This will be a regular in my rotation for sure.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #184
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Does anyone or has anyone done consecutive down days. I'd like to keep my weekend days both up days but would love to end up with 4 down days and 3 up days so was wondering if I could do consecutive down days during the week? I am pretty sure you're not supposed to but was wondering if anyone had tried it.

(I tried searching for this but couldn't get the search refined enough. Sorry if this has been discussed before which I am imagining is the case.)
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:45 PM   #185
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Consecutive DDs are a real "no, no" on this plan. The point is NOT to negatively affect your metabolism, and the limit is 24 hours or so. What I do is have a "medium day" which is my average of DD/UD. Since I only do 3 DDs a week (M, W, F) for convenience, I make one of my weekend days a "MD." You can do that on a weekday too, instead of consecutive DDs.

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The shrimp I had were already precooked and frozen. They were either boiled or steamed previously--and I was OK with the calorie count--90 cal for 3 oz with 20g of protein. I ate much more than 3 oz, but it was my major food today--a lot of good protein.

I use psyllium powder, and I generally add 2 T a day to my food (at 2 different times). You really have to experiment to see how much you need, and I'd suggest starting with 1T to see if that helps enough. You can also make shakes with it, but be sure to drink it quickly, as it thickens instantly.

I have put it in soup, and really like it that way because it makes the soup really thick and filling, but you have to decide for yourself if you like it.

In addition, make sure to drink plenty of fluids if you use this stuff.

Last edited by Leo41; 06-21-2010 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:47 PM   #186
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Ah, o.k. A medium day. Makes sense. Yeah, I'm not trying to get into the business of starvation dieting but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Thanks.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:48 PM   #187
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So it looks like I'm going to bail out on you guys for a bit. I have some other stuff going on and the thyroid board is advising me to hold off on the calorie cutting until I can get things figured out. I don't know. Maybe they are right. I am going to go get my thyroid and adrenals checked first before decided on a path. For now I'm going to try to up my exercise a bit and eat maintenance level and see how it goes. If I keep gaining I know my head will explode and things will get ugly but I am hoping it's not going to continue. I'm sure I'll be rejoining you in the near future but I want to try to get a bit more stabilized and see if there are other things I need to be addressing first.

I will say my first down day was not bad at all. I think I can do this!
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:06 PM   #188
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Good luck, Minnas! Several of us here on this thread have thyroid stuff to deal with. Good idea about eating at maintenance level for now. I wonder what Pam would say about upping your exercise before the adrenals and thyroid issues are addressed? Hope you get the answers you are looking for. Look forward to JUDDDing with you in the future.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:33 PM   #189
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I have a question regarding JUDDD and thyroid and thought it best to ask here given at least a few of you have thyroid challenges and I didn't want to upset anyone over there as I think the world of all of them. So, I was on the thyroid board today with a request for help and was a little surprised at the viewpoint of most towards eating very low calorie on some days. I understand the inclination to see a diet with a few hundred calories and assume it's a dangerous fad diet but I don't see JUDDD as this and obviously you guys don't either. I think from an evolutionary/Paleo standpoint having days with more calories and fewer calories makes sense so this diet actually seems quite biologically sound. So I am wondering if there is something special about thyroid disease that would make having some days with very low calories somehow dangerous or deleterious? Again, I was just surprised at the negative reaction I got for my plan over on the thyroid board today and it left me quite curious if there were special concerns regarding the thyroid and using this plan.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:49 AM   #190
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They tend to be very dogmatic about calories/carbs on the thyroid board, but I've read so many posts from hypothyroids who thrive on different ways of eating that I don't think there's one approach that suits everyone.

All I can report on is my own situation. I must limit calories in order to lose--that's just a fact of life for me. I also have an excellent endo who not only approves of JUDDD, he thinks it's wonderful--based on the results I've experienced. I've been doing this for about 16 months now, and my blood values are consistently excellent with no apparent negative effect on my thyroid.

I agree that you're wise not to begin any new plan until you get checked, but if you have adrenal and/or thyroid issues, I also wouldn't increase exercise in any way. Both conditions call for moderation of exercise.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:10 AM   #191
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Thanks for explaining that Leo. I woke up feeling really bummed about not following through with JUDDD. I need to dig up my lab slip today and make an appointment to get the blood work done and over so I can move forward.

I am really excited though because I feel like I broke through some sort of something that was holding me back from JUDDD. Yesterday was not bad at all and I feel like I could really manage the down days. I really was not so sure before so I feel like I accomplished something important yesterday anyway.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:35 AM   #192
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Minnas--I have severe hypothyroid problems that have regularly defeated my attempts to lose weight. I think JUDDD is the perfect answer--because if I simply eat low calorie and increase exercise it totally sends me more hypo. Alternating UDs and DDs improves my metabolic functioning. it is that simple. I am sure the notion of 500 calories in a day freaks out the thyroid people--but really, our bodies "sum" up over time and I think we hypos are attracted to JUDDD because it elegantly solves a problem for us. My doc (when he was still in town Also thought JUDDD was terrific!
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:44 AM   #193
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Minnas--I have severe hypothyroid problems that have regularly defeated my attempts to lose weight. I think JUDDD is the perfect answer--because if I simply eat low calorie and increase exercise it totally sends me more hypo. Alternating UDs and DDs improves my metabolic functioning. it is that simple. I am sure the notion of 500 calories in a day freaks out the thyroid people--but really, our bodies "sum" up over time and I think we hypos are attracted to JUDDD because it elegantly solves a problem for us. My doc (when he was still in town Also thought JUDDD was terrific!
Thank you. Yeah, it totally makes sense to me too and I was surprised to find such resistance to the idea. Part of my attraction to the plan was my attraction also to Paleo principles and JUDDD seemed to be perfectly in line with that. No one used to get a regular infusion of just enough calories each day. Carb and calorie cycling principles seem to work so well for many I just can't find anything wrong with the idea (unless you are prone to ED-type thinking then it may not be wise I suppose)

I feel a little bummed now. Well, I'm going to keep mulling this over in my head. I'm a big believer in following ideas that are attractive to you and finding out what happens so I'm pretty sure I'm still on this train. I will hold out until I can get my blood drawn I guess but will work on some recipes for my down days and that sort of thing in the interim. I really have the highest regard for the people on the thyroid board and I completely understand where they are coming from with the calorie thing but it seems clear that JUDDD works for many with thyroid issues so I am definitely not ruling it out.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:20 AM   #194
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I think that those folks assume that all hypos are the same, and that's not true. We're all individuals. If I could lose weight on low carb, eating 1400 cal a day, I would never have come to JUDDD. But I stalled for almost a year, gaining and losing the same 10 lbs because I cannot lose unless I keep my calories <1000 a day. Trying to do that on a daily basis led to frustration and periodic overeating--and no loss. JUDDD enables me to keep my calories low enough to lose, and I have had no negative effects on my thyroid. I have noticed that people who criticize tend to think that what works for them should work for anyone, and that just isn't true. I don't promote JUDDD because I think that just because it works for me doesn't mean that others should adopt it.

From your posts, I think that JUDDD may be ideal for you because the greatest benefit to me other than the weight loss has been the psychological benefits that I never got from just low carb. After a few DDs, I got a tremendous sense of control of my eating for perhaps the first time in my life. And that feeling of control has remained. I've also gotten periodic insights into my specific food issues while doing JUDDD. It's really quite amazing, this secondary effect, and others here have commented on it as well.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:38 AM   #195
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Leo, it seems the current party line is that if you need to eat low calorie you have some underlying problem that needs fixing. I guess you would disagree with that? I'm pretty sure I do. I mean, I think people forget that someone like me (and you) who were morbidly obese at one time have different bodies than people who were just 20 or 40lbs overweight. That's how I see it anyway. We surely have a whole lot of extra fat cells that will never go away even with weight loss and they want to be filled up again! I know for certain that my body doesn't want to be a "regular" size and it looks for every opportunity to lay some fat back down. That's how I interpret my apparent need to keep low cal. I don't see it as necessarily something wrong but as a remnant of my former fat self and one that I will need to manage for the rest of my life. My body is forever altered and though I may look relatively "normal" I am anything but. Perhaps I have an underlying thyroid and/or adrenal issues but you are medicated and still have to eat low calorie so I don't think fixing whatever metabolic issue may be there is a guarantee that calories will be able to come back up. I just see a low calorie and low carb way of life as a permanent fixture in my life and I've made peace with that (well, mostly.) It would be great to find that I could eat more calories one day but I don't expect that to happen so my goal is just to find the best way to manage my caloric needs so I can have the most enjoyment from my food as its an important source of joy in my life.

Sorry to babble on here. Just trying to roll all of this around in my head and make sure my thinking isn't flawed or just plain stupid, lol.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:57 AM   #196
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Leo, it seems the current party line is that if you need to eat low calorie you have some underlying problem that needs fixing. I guess you would disagree with that? I'm pretty sure I do. I mean, I think people forget that someone like me (and you) who were morbidly obese at one time have different bodies than people who were just 20 or 40lbs overweight. That's how I see it anyway. We surely have a whole lot of extra fat cells that will never go away even with weight loss and they want to be filled up again! I know for certain that my body doesn't want to be a "regular" size and it looks for every opportunity to lay some fat back down. That's how I interpret my apparent need to keep low cal. I don't see it as necessarily something wrong but as a remnant of my former fat self and one that I will need to manage for the rest of my life. My body is forever altered and though I may look relatively "normal" I am anything but. Perhaps I have an underlying thyroid and/or adrenal issues but you are medicated and still have to eat low calorie so I don't think fixing whatever metabolic issue may be there is a guarantee that calories will be able to come back up. I just see a low calorie and low carb way of life as a permanent fixture in my life and I've made peace with that (well, mostly.) It would be great to find that I could eat more calories one day but I don't expect that to happen so my goal is just to find the best way to manage my caloric needs so I can have the most enjoyment from my food as its an important source of joy in my life.

Sorry to babble on here. Just trying to roll all of this around in my head and make sure my thinking isn't flawed or just plain stupid, lol.
Gosh Minnas--you are so right about this! Here is another benefit to JUDDD that I think the thyroid folks have not clued into yet--I also eat primal blueprint (with a few lowcal/lowcarb frankenfoods like oatfiber and shirataki noodles thrown in, lol)--but the ONLY way I have been able to move up the carb ladder at all--and I am only talking about cottage cheese, greek yogurt, and low glycemic fruit like berries--has been with JUDDD. Otherwise, I simply balloon up the second I introduce any higher than induction carbs. My DD's take care of carbish weight gain--even if it simply burning glycogen and dumping water, it allows me to have more variety in my diet than I would just following induction or vlc style eating. This, for me, has helped with the propensity JUDDD has to occasionally trigger binge eating. more carbs for whatever reason equals less hunger and more satisfaction. However, more carbs without a DD has resulted in weight gain--the devil's dilemma. More carbs is better for thyroid--the only way for me to move up is to use JUDDD. Make sense? Of course, I am not talking about CARBS. I am talking about probably still less than 100 carbs of dairy and fruit, but still--I want them--and JUDDD seems to be (so far) the answer.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:13 AM   #197
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Jumping in here.

My Dr. Chris Camelleri of the Holtorf Medical Group who I cannot say enough good things about and consider a leading expert on Hypothyroid has no problem with JUDD. When I ran it by him he said he thought it was a good idea because your body can't adjust to the low calories in the daily increments JUDD provides.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:27 AM   #198
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ouizoid, makes sense!

Kisha, that is so good to know. How's the BFL going for you? I did that program years ago and liked it a lot. I still struggle so with the whole exercise thing. I have no idea why I am so resistant to do anything but yoga. Lazy probably. Anyway, I wish you well on the new plan.

I'm kinda hating that I posted on the thyroid board. I know I must seem ungrateful and argumentative over there. I understand where they are coming from. Yeah, I would love to lose more weight and that is at least one of my reasons for looking to JUDDD but honestly, any system that helps me stay where I am with my weight but feel that my food/hunger is more managed or manageable I am all over. What I have been doing for years seems to work but what if JUDDD works better? I feel like I at least need to find out.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:43 AM   #199
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Minnas... I posted to you in the thyroid board. I do need to tell you that my doctor approves JUDD for ME. ME. I am properly diagnosed and properly treated. Not flying by the seat of my pants guessing about whats wrong with me. I know whats wrong with me and have the right doctor to fix it.

I hope this doesn't sound snarky! Its REALLY important to find out if you have hypothyroid or adrenal issues rather than just guessing or buying meds of the internet or taking OTC "supplementals"

I hope you follow through on getting properly tested

BTW BFL is going great for me I love it. I eat about 100g of carbs a day and hit the gym hard. I am SO GRATEFUL to be healthy again and ABLE to do more than lay on the couch. My hypothyroidism was so debilitating that it was all I could do to go to work. Working out is a celebration of my healing.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:01 AM   #200
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Minnas... I posted to you in the thyroid board. I do need to tell you that my doctor approves JUDD for ME. ME. I am properly diagnosed and properly treated. Not flying by the seat of my pants guessing about whats wrong with me. I know whats wrong with me and have the right doctor to fix it.

I hope this doesn't sound snarky! Its REALLY important to find out if you have hypothyroid or adrenal issues rather than just guessing or buying meds of the internet or taking OTC "supplementals"

I hope you follow through on getting properly tested

BTW BFL is going great for me I love it. I eat about 100g of carbs a day and hit the gym hard. I am SO GRATEFUL to be healthy again and ABLE to do more than lay on the couch. My hypothyroidism was so debilitating that it was all I could do to go to work. Working out is a celebration of my healing.
I read your post and I totally understand. Yes, I am flying by the seat of my pants right now. I really just started the conversation to see how thyroid disease started. I wanted to see if it was indeed possible that one hour of high stress could have pushed my body over the edge. I think I am not so stupid as to assume I can draw any conclusions about what is going on with me the last two weeks without testing. Well, I like to think I am not so stupid anyway, lol. I think that thread sort of spun out of control a bit. I didn't intend to start a discussion about my JUDDD plans or the wisdom (or stupidity) of eating low calorie days when I started. I do understand where everyone is coming from and I honestly appreciate everyone taking the time to weigh in. I do hope I'm not quite the complete idiot I seem to be coming across as right now. I hope anyway.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:08 AM   #201
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O sweetie I do NOT think you are an idiot! I absolute relate one hundred percent to everything you are going through. I did not mean to imply that I think you are foolish. Trust me I would NEVER do that. I had my fill of people thinking I was crazy/lazy during the worst of my HypO and would never want to visit that on you.

You're doing the best you can with the information you have and you surely did come to the right place to ask questions! JUDD is certainly not out of the question for you it is very effective for alot of us with compromised metabolisms. Its just good that you're going to get tested.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:12 AM   #202
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I SO agree with Kisha--and with you.

If you are actually hypo and not medicated, you surely need to get checked before tinkering with food/exercise, etc. Nothing you eat or buy OTC will 'fix' thyroid or adrenals.

I also agree that those of us who have been morbidly obese most of our lives have a very different endocrine system than folks who need to lose 30-40 lbs. Jenny (BloodSugar 101) posted once that those of us who got to 300+ lbs have an underlying metabolic disorder, and that disorder is not 'cured' by losing weight. Like you, I know my body wants to be much bigger than I want to let it, and I'll always have to fight that war.

I admit that I have a disorder--actually two of them--age and hypo--and they cannot be 'fixed.' Even optimally medicated, my metabolism is much slower than 'normal.' It's just a fact of my life that I have to learn to live with.

I am resigned to low calorie/low carb--I actually eat "primal" for the most part--and I feel better eating this way. That is, the low calories don't bother me because I feel fine eating at this level. However, it requires continual attention because those calories really add up quickly.

Like Ouis, I do JUDDD because it fits my needs. It provides me with just a little 'wiggle room' so that I don't burn out constantly watching every morsel. For example, when I had been doing JUDDD for just 3 months, I went on a 4-day trip to New Orleans. I ate conservatively, but nowhere near the low calories I had been doing, and I ate carbs. How can you not have Bananas Foster when you're in the restaurant where it was invented?

I came home up only 2.5 lbs. In standard low carb, those indulgences would have resulted in at least 5 lbs. But the great thing is that I went right back to JUDDD, and by the end of ONE week, I had lost 3.5 lbs--my vacation 'gain' and the single lb that I usually lost each week. I have had similar experiences each time I've traveled. That's why JUDDD will be my choice for maintenance, too, because it seems to work well for me.

Again, I don't eat anywhere near the calorie/carb level that is 'party line' on the thyroid thread, but it works for me. And there are several others, including some who thrive on VLC, which I can't tolerate, so that's why I think the 'plan' for hypothyroid is very individual.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:24 AM   #203
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Thanks Leo and Kisha.

Kisha, your post to me was quite fair and I understand what you are saying. I'm just feeling frustrated with not being able to express myself adequately mostly on the thyroid board and I find myself feeling defensive. I apologize if I seemed to be lashing out at you. I didn't mean to come across that way as that's not how I feel.

I'm finding these past two days that I am feeling a great deal of sadness over what some of you have gone through. Your passionate opinions show clearly that you have struggled to find your way and while it's heartening to see so many have ultimately found their answers and have been able to dig their way out it still makes me feel so sad that so many women have to fight so hard to get answers, deal with their bodies, etc.

Leo, as always I appreciate hearing your story and validating my thoughts and feelings. While I haven't quite earned the years you have I am well on my way and I know for certain that my age is playing a part in all of this. My eggs are finally starting to shut down so peri-menopause wackiness is a strong force in my life to be sure. Ah, if only all of this could be easy.

O.k. well I'll stop all my chatter and let you guys get back to your JUDDDy ways. I'll be keeping an eye out and I'm pretty sure I'll be back.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:10 PM   #204
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Minnas-
Even if you're not doing JUDDD, you're always welcome to stop in and chat with us.

It's possible that the hormonal shifts that begin with perimenopause have affected your thyroid. I always think I became hypo with menopause, but I think it may have been even longer.

From the time my thyroid swelled (goiter) until I was finally diagnosed and medicated, it was five years, with my primary attributing every symptom to aging. Don't let them do that to you. When you get your test results, you know enough from the thyroid board to understand whether or not they indicate hypo, and if you're not sure, the rest of us can give you our two cents.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:17 PM   #205
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Now back to JUDDD-

I'm not really doing JUDDD this week because I'm eating so little (c. 800 cal) that I'm afraid to do DDs. Unfortunately, 800 cal of low carb/low fat isn't producing any loss, but that could be because my body is still in shock from the weekend's events and is holding onto every ounce.

I think by next week, I'll be able to return to DDs, but the following week I leave on my 2-week cruise of the Baltic, and as I did on my last cruise, my goal is just to maintain. That means I try to be aware of M, W, Fri, and I try to hold calories on those days to 700-800, which is what I think I'd do in maintenance. This isn't always possible, but I found that the effort to control calories was beneficial even if I went slightly over.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:40 PM   #206
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Oh Leo I am so sorry I neglected to ask how you are doing. So wrapped up in my own problems to think about anyone but myself. I'm sorry.

So things are going o.k.? I think you are wise to avoid the DD and be more moderate in your approach considering recent events.

A cruise to the Baltic sounds like heaven! You did so well on the last one I'm sure you'll sail right through this one too.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:50 PM   #207
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Leo--I think bodies have wisdom when it comes to recovering from a shock--I suggest that the next few weeks focus (as you are doing already) on rest and repair. God knows you could be in maintenance just as you are this moment--so a few weeks won't make to much difference--Sending warm and healing vibes your way dear Leo--
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Old 06-22-2010, 04:54 PM   #208
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Thanks for asking Minnas-

I see my own gastroenterologist tomorrow for a follow up, and I'm eager to hear what he has to say about this episode--although he'll probably not say much until he can see the hospital charts.

I'm feeling OK, although I seem to have twisted my already bad knee when I went down, and I'm also seeing an orthopedist tomorrow, hoping that he might have some advice to speed healing.

Ouis-
Thanks for your kind thoughts. I agree that a few weeks won't make any difference at all. If I maintain for a while, I might actually be better able to lose my final pounds when I go back to strict JUDDD.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:14 PM   #209
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Yes please Leo do just focus on healing! Big Hugs to you my friend!
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:46 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnas View Post
Leo, it seems the current party line is that if you need to eat low calorie you have some underlying problem that needs fixing. I guess you would disagree with that? I'm pretty sure I do. I mean, I think people forget that someone like me (and you) who were morbidly obese at one time have different bodies than people who were just 20 or 40lbs overweight. .
I think this is very, very true. There are many great folks on the thyroid and other threads and I am greatful that they share their experiences. BUT, someone turning 40 and gaining 30 lbs is a in very different body than someone who has never been a normal weight since 2nd grade.

We have different metabolisms, tolerances & intolerances. I can get stung by a bee while eating a peanut butter sandwich and be just fine. My cousin would be in the hospital on death's door.

I have seen the posts that talk about JUDDD as being "extreme" and many other less-than-flattering adjectives on the ML and thyroid board. But, to me, it offers more freedom. We only "diet" half of the time. JUDDD is "extreme" but it is "normal" to pack every morsel you eat on a week-long vacation to Disneyland? How often have we seen posts like "I want to attend my grandma's birthday party, but I'm on induction..." and someone will respond to just stay home. Really? JUDDD is extreme?

I also think many "naturally" thin people calorie cycle naturally. I have a skinny coworker that frequently eats a can of lite soup or a Lean Cuisine for lunch, skips breakfast and has a salad for dinner. Some days she eats a big, giant burger & fries. No one thinks twice about what she eats because she is thin.

Anyway, it's late and I am probably babbling. I completely understand how you feel about the weight gain. It is hard to go through after all of your heard work. I do agree with everyone though about getting your levels checked before doing anything drastic. Even if you don't find a doc right away, you will have some clue about what is happening.
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