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Old 06-18-2010, 07:36 AM   #151
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Ouis You could try going up 200 calories on your DD's and going down 200 calories for your UD's. You would come out with the same number of calories for the week. My alternations are 500/2100; and I was thinking of tyring 700/1900 as an experiment.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:29 AM   #152
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Ouis
I agree with Redeemed. If your DDs are too low for your workouts, just try raising the calories and deducting from UDs. In that interview that Redeemed posted with Dr. J, I think he mentioned that he does something like 1000 cal DDs in maintenance. You don't need to go that high, but it indicates that, depending on your goals, the DD number is flexible.

The basic idea of this WOE is that you can seriously restrict calories without feeling deprived (because of the UDs). How far you want to restrict is entirely up to you.

But now matter what you decide, please continue to hang out with us!
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:29 AM   #153
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--yeah that is what I am doing--I guess it doesn't feel like a DD, because when I was seriously Judd'ing, I didn't eat til dinner. Now I am eating all day long, but keeping calories and carbs very low and still finishing off the day at around 7-800 on my "dd's"

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Old 06-18-2010, 12:31 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
--yeah that is what I am doing--I guess it doesn't feel like a DD, because when I was seriously Judd'ing, I didn't eat til dinner. Now I am eating all day long, but keeping calories and carbs very low and still finishing off the day at around 7-800 on my "dd's"

I'm not leaving! HA!
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:44 PM   #155
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Just wanted to stop by and say hello to some of my very favorite people! I've expressed to some of you that I have great interest in JUDDD but my irrational fear of being without food has held me up. I know, knew, that less than 700 calories a day was not possible for me to do. Well, the last two days I have done NO food, just protein shakes and broth, trying to get over this crazy thought that I'll spin out of control without food. Of course I did spin a bit out of control, I was very unhappy and uncomfortable and a little emotional (read CRAZY!) but I got through it. I've done PSMF with no food before several times but it's been many years so it was a good exercise to be without food again I think. Anyway, I am going to try this out. I plan to start Monday. I'm posting this now as a way of declaring my intentions so I don't chicken out on Monday morning. I've collected some recipes and have a list of foods to buy. It seems like just doing my normal foods without added fat and lower fat choices should work. I am not going below 500 though. I just can't at least not now. I may work up to that but this is the best I can do for now. I'll do up days of 1400 or so. The calculator puts my low days lower and my up days higher but this is where I feel comfortable. I'll play with it if I survive the first week. My carbs are going to come up some so I don't feel comfortable upping my calories so much until I know how my body is going to react.

Anyway, I'm won't clog up your thread with my whining until I know I can do this so if the week goes well I'll start joining in. Since my numbers right now don't really constitute read JUDDD I'll keep it to myself until I can get to a place where I feel I might be able to follow the program as written. Just wanted to let you know you all inspire and motivate me to do better for myself and I thank you so much!
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:00 AM   #156
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:18 AM   #157
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Hi Minnas! I really think you can tailor JUDDD to your needs--I suggest experimenting and seeing how it works for you--I eased into my DD's (and then eased back a bit --I'm sure you read my posts about my workout schedule)--but I never ever did a DD that was less than 5-600 calories. Simply alternating a lowish DD with a higher UD has been extremely helpful for me--Plus we are a simply awesome group! Welcome! Post when you can!!

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Old 06-19-2010, 10:27 AM   #158
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Minnas,
I am new to JUDDD also. I just ended my second week. And I understand your fear. But once you figure out what you can and cannot eat, it's not bad. If you read my previous posts, I am a volume person and a grazer. My first DD I know that I was way over the 500 cal but my goal was to make myself aware of what and how much I was really eating because I was one of the few folks who gained weight doing LC and not paying attention to how much I was really consuming.
It gets easier after the first week. I found that LF foods are lower in cal. and therefore I can use them easier on the DD than trying to only use a fraction of a tsp. of LC but high fat salad dressing and things like that.
I am less concerned with carbs on the DD's as I am with the calories.
Hope this helps. Everyone comes up with whatever works for them. But just don't put too much stress on yourself if you don't exactly hit that 500cal. mark. Every little bit helps (in my humble opinion). Good luck!!
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:32 AM   #159
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I don't know how you guys keep track of what you want to say to everyone. I'll just quote and snip up your posts of ya'll don't mind.

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Originally Posted by jlp2009 View Post
Working the long shifts on my DD's have definitely helped. I don't have time to think about eating constantly. Only problem is that I have to stop myself from gorging when I get home.
I think the advice given to someone about control on the UD's is what I need as well. That's what got me into this predicament in the first place. I thought LC was a license to eat high fat foods the same way I used to eat LF but HC foods. I was way wrong and now I am paying the price.
JLP, I have that gorging when I get home problem too. There was a thread somewhere about where our bad eating habits come from and I am blaming that one on my childhood (but not my mom ). Anyway, what helps me is a snack right before I leave work or in the car on the way home. It takes the edge off before I get there.

I have to control UDs too. I could do zero cal DDs and wreck them with out of control UDs. I try to think of UDs as a time to eat things I think are good for me, but higher cal- like avocados, nuts and CO.

Quote:
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I know what you mean about high fat/ low carb. When I read some of the people's menus on the Main Lobby, I mentally estimate the calories and am astonished. Today a friend of mine wants to have lunch at Applebee's, and I just looked at their menu nutritional info! The average lunch there would be my entire day's calories for an UD--and today is a "medium" day for me (to keep tomorrow an UD), so I'm going to have to be very creative in ordering.
But I was thinking about low carbers who only focus on the carb count. In a place like that, they could stay low carb but would have thousands of calories for one meal!
Leo, I was one that could lose on high calorie LC, but only for the first 50 lbs or so. I am finding now that calories, and volume oddly enough, seem to make much more of a difference. I still eat fairly LC, since high carb stuff is mostly just junk anyway, but I don't shy away from fruit, extra veggies and things like yogurt anymore. I keep reading VLC isn't good for the thyroid either so I keep that in the back of my mind too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSugarShell View Post
Hey guys!!

I am still here JUDDDIng away. It's my busy season at work, so I haven't been posting as much. I still find time to read what's going on with you guys! I will post more later when I have time...I am still holding steady. No new losses since my 117.6, but TOM is right around the corner!

Michelle
Good to "see" you Michelle!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
Still not judding particularly--except in spirit! I may get back to it, but found myself in binge territory on my UD's as well as lightheaded on my DD's. I'm eating slightly higher carbs (cottage cheese, greek yogurt and berries post heavy lifting)--still lowcarb"ish", lower fat. Trying to be extremely mindful in my eating--really listening to hunger cues. JUDDD has taught me that a little hunger pang will go away! Now I wait for the biga$$ hunger pangs, and my portions are much smaller. I still feel like I would like to find some kind of JUDDD happy medium, so I hope it is ok that I am still hanging out here!
Of course it is OK to hang out here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnas View Post
Just wanted to stop by and say hello to some of my very favorite people! I've expressed to some of you that I have great interest in JUDDD but my irrational fear of being without food has held me up. I know, knew, that less than 700 calories a day was not possible for me to do. Well, the last two days I have done NO food, just protein shakes and broth, trying to get over this crazy thought that I'll spin out of control without food.
I can get to a place where I feel I might be able to follow the program as written. Just wanted to let you know you all inspire and motivate me to do better for myself and I thank you so much!
Minnas, That was quite a realization for me, to know I could go without food and not keel over by 5 PM. All the talk of 6 small meals and starvation mode fed into that feeling. Oddly enough, those stranded-in-Alaska reality shows helped me too. It seemed like there was a rash of them about the time I started JUDDDing. Those people were building cabins on nothing but 200 cals worth of grasshoppers, and they started out thin. I have considerable reserves. I can make it thorugh 24 hours on 500 cals.


No weigh in for me today. Since I am alternating yesterday was an UD so I'll see what the box says tomorrow. My hiking trip went well. Food was good and I felt fine even though it was a DD.

Have a great JUDDD day everyone!
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:44 AM   #160
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Thanks for the warm welcome everyone. I appreciate it.

I certainly come to this with some big issues that will need to be handled if I am able to do this successfully. My first big one is that I walk a strange line of trying to be happy right where I am with my weight and my food as my journey has been long and hard and I have oh so much to be grateful for. I must never forget that. I have lost a lot of weight and my weight has been stable for years. My overwhelming concern is that, in trying to see if I can coax my body a bit lower, I don't challenge myself too much or feel too much deprivation which is the kiss of death for me. I don't worry too much about falling off the LC wagon as I've done this for SO LONG it is pretty much all I know. So, "protecting my quit" (in addiction language) is the overriding principle I must cling to above all else.

Still, I would like to lose some more weight but what I know for certain is that my body is not only extremely sensitive to carbs but that my caloric intake must be kept low. I also struggle with hunger issues which I have mostly come to accept although some days are harder than others. Given my situation JUDDD seems particularly well-suited for me but only time will tell I suppose.

I seem to hold a somewhat irrational fear of lack of food and this will be the mental issue I need most to overcome. I will have to raise my carbs on my down days for certain in order to have an acceptable volume of food but I feel that my body will be able to handle it just fine given the caloric intake. Beyond weight loss though I would like to come to a better place of acceptance with my hunger and I think a journey on the JUDDD train will help me with that. I guess I seek a certain sense of freedom from food if that makes sense? I might even try again for some "shake days" but again will have to be very careful with that sort of thing given where my head is.

My plan is to up carbs in the way of low calorie veggies and then add lean meats to the menu on down days. I will do a bit of IF with three very small meals from afternoon to early evening. All I can say is that I thank God for shiritaki! Up days will be lower carb and higher fat adding in some higher fat proteins and CO. I'd like to do VLC on these days but need to watch for issues of deprivation, or feelings of deprivation to be more exact. I'm pretty good at policing my thoughts and feelings so I'm not too concerned but know I am prone to those "bad" thoughts so have to watch it.

Anyway, I am excited to finally feel in a place to give this a go. Thanks again for the welcome and I look forward to be part of your group.
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:47 AM   #161
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I made a very filling DD recipe today--about 100 calories--2 Tbs coconut flour (60) 1/3 cup eggbeaters (30), 1 tsp baking powder, 1 Tbs psyllium powder (I don't count cals/carbs for psyllium) and some davinci's--

I made pancakes. They are very delicate and require some real finesse to flip over, but oh my gosh! They are FILLING! I like 100 calories worth of filling! I have made psyllium pancakes plenty of times before--but I think the addition of the coconut flour is what made the difference--
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Old 06-19-2010, 11:01 AM   #162
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I'm having pancakes for supper also. Perhaps I should try the coconut flour recipe. So, Ouis, you didn't add any whey protein? Which tasted better, in you opinion? Which had fewer calories? I went to the store yesterday on my way to work just to get the whey protein and psyllium husks.

My DD night shift went well. I had my ground beef and cabbage and onions (added beef aju (sp) and soy sauce) right before I went to work. This carried me through the entire shift without getting hungry. The Dr. Zevia on ice was a filling treat also. Tomorrow I want to celebrate Father's Day and eat with everyone else at the restaurant, so I'm making this another DD. I know we're not supposed to do two DD's in a row, but I'm tweaking this just for the occasion. For some really strange reason I'm not hungry after yesterday's DD and night shift without eating. My pancakes will be at 5 PM. So I am really doing a stint of IF also. I strongly prefer waiting until 5:00 PM to have all my 500 calories.

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Old 06-19-2010, 11:08 AM   #163
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Redeemed--I would absolutely add some PP if I was having these for dinner--since I am spacing out my calories today, I kept them as low a possible! It is all an experiment--
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:50 AM   #164
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Weekly Weigh In

356769nueryyu68g.gif Good morning JUDDDers!


Down one pound. Total of 17 pounds in six weeks. This week I'll get on track with my DD/UD alternations and have better calorie control. The weekly losses are very motivating. Today's challenge will be to not overeat at the restaurant we're going to.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:52 AM   #165
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Weigh-in for me today was pretty good. My weight has been all over the place since mid-May. I was down to 175, then in two weeks, for no apparent reason I was up to 183-184 (consistantly, I would bounce up and around as much as 186). I started JUDDDing with a fever and the next week was 180. Then I started running again and went back to 183. Third week now- running, hiking & JUDDDing, and back to 179.

I think my "no apparent reason" was probably my thyroid, but I was busy and stressed and not paying enough attention to what I ate. I don't want to blame my thyroid if it is really me slacking off. I had a blood draw scheduled about that time anyway and I'm off to the doc tomorrow so we shall see.

I had a pretty easy DD yesterday. I went for a run and then came home and boiled some eggs. Once done, I didn't even feel like eating them. We had some kid activities and errands to run so I packed them in a little cooler. I finally felt like one about 1:00.

DH and I found ourselves alone for the evening so we went out for dinner. I picked Chilis because I thought they had a "diet" section on the menu with calorie counts. I must have been thinking of someplace else. They did have a little symbol if an item is less then 750 cals and some other criteria. I picked a Mexican chicken dish and as soon as they brought it I scraped off more than half the beans and rice so I hope it came down to 430 or less. It was good and I was full.

Up day today. I think for Father's Day we are taking DH to ride some roller coasters. Have a great JUDDD day everyone!
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:18 AM   #166
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Minnas,
You are thinking along the same lines as what I have been doing. Focusing on lots of low cal vegetables with a FF dressing for a salads. I use lots of hard boiled egg whites
and a few thin slices of chicken or turkey lunch meat. I also fill up on cole slaw veggies with a dressing that I make up using FF mayo, some vinegar and spices to taste. I figure that I can eat all of that I want for not a lot of calories.
Someone on one of the recipe threads posted a jello salad recipe that I adaped and use all the time, which satisfies my need for sweet, cold, crunchy, and volume. I vary the flavor of SF jello to avoid boredom, use a few chopped nuts (but you could leave those out), lots of broccoli slaw and cabbage slaw,a lot of chopped celery, and chopped jicama because I love the crunch of it. When I crave sweet, I reach for a bowl of that. It takes a while to eat too, which helps take my mind off other foods.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:19 AM   #167
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Minnas,
You are thinking along the same lines as what I have been doing. Focusing on lots of low cal vegetables with a FF dressing for a salads. I use lots of hard boiled egg whites
and a few thin slices of chicken or turkey lunch meat. I also fill up on cole slaw veggies with a dressing that I make up using FF mayo, some vinegar and spices to taste. I figure that I can eat all of that I want for not a lot of calories.
Someone on one of the recipe threads posted a jello salad recipe that I adaped and use all the time, which satisfies my need for sweet, cold, crunchy, and volume. I vary the flavor of SF jello to avoid boredom, use a few chopped nuts (but you could leave those out), lots of broccoli slaw and cabbage slaw,a lot of chopped celery, and chopped jicama because I love the crunch of it. When I crave sweet, I reach for a bowl of that. It takes a while to eat too, which helps take my mind off other foods.
Thanks for letting me know I am on the right track. I'm glad to hear this is working for you.

I actually don't mind the Walden Farms dressings so I have several bottles of those in the fridge. I bought their mayo but proceeded to drop it and it shattered everywhere so I am going to have to get another jar and try that. I really sort of hate processed stuff but it seems to mostly be thickeners in it and it's not exactly a chemical cesspool so I'm going to utilize this brand as much as possible at least to start.

I've been spending the morning cooking my new low fat foods for my down days and I'm really excited. I'm loaded up on jicama, celery, peppers, broccoli slaw, and cauliflower! I'm so glad I finally replaced my broken food processor as that's turning out to be a handy tool for shredding and chopping all these veggies. I had to laugh at myself as I wiped out the fat from the pan after sauteing some beef. I'd be chewed up and spit out if I said I did that over on the Main Lobby, lol. I'll probably save the beef for my up days but wasn't sure so I decided to rinse it and wipe out the pan just in case. I can add some CO to it if I use it on up days.

I'm truly excited about my new plan. I've never been anti-low fat so I have no problem adopting this as a way of dealing with my down days. I don't think fat is bad as part of a low carb way but man, the calories add up! I find fat doesn't do much for my hunger so it's just not as beneficial to me as it seems to be for others. I enjoy low fat foods a lot so I think this shouldn't be too much of a challenge for me. I just need to deal with my issues of equating very low calories with very high hunger. Surely there will be hunger but I have to believe I will be able to deal with it. I've got some glucomanan supplements to take on my down days and am hoping those help a bit as well.

I'm super excited to be going to meet an LCF'er next Sunday. We're going to the farmers market together and I'm sure I'll be loading up on lots of good stuff for my down days. It should be fun!
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #168
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Quick question. Do you guys focus on your protein intake on down days? Just wondering if I need to hit a certain number or not? I was trying to get it up as high as possible but wondering if it was o.k. to keep it low as long as I upped it on my high days?
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:51 AM   #169
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I found some Maple Grove Farms of Vermont SF, FF Raspberry vinaigrette and a balsamic vinaigrette dressing that are really tasty and the bottle says 2 tablespoons only has 5 cal.!

I don't know what everyone else does for protein, but I have been adding hard boiled egg whites to my salad and take a couple in my lunch for snacks. I usually have just a couple of thin slices of LF lunch meat. But then on my UP's I eat quite a bit more meat.
Meat calories can add up fast so I have to really watch that.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:41 AM   #170
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_2096035a0fsxt0umn.gif Good morning JUDDDers!


DD here. I made those pancakes with the Whey Protein, Psyllium Husks and eggs the other DD day. They were delicious. I added cinnimon, truvia and salt. I baked mine in a muffin top tin. They made 5 pancakes and I could only eat three and a half. I used Brummel and Brown for butter.The only problem was I used Joseph's SF Maple Syrup. Never again will I use a syrup with the "M" word in it. I went to church afterward for a three hour service and I felt terrible the whole time (tummy troubles... ). I ordered some DaVinci SF Maple Syrup from Netrition for the next time. Today I'm going to have soup during the day.

Hope everyone has a great day. Where's Leo?
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:18 AM   #171
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I think Leo said she was going on a trip--

Minnas--I too like WF products--and if you combine them with other things they can be awesome. I do focus on protein for dinner on DD's. During the day, I drink bone broth mixed with sauteed greens and shirataki noodles--I eat green salads with WF dressings--I make glucomannan shakes--I make OMM's with eggbeaters and oatfiber--so mostly less than 40 calories until dinner and then dinner is a big salad with protein or an omelette or the like. I know that Leo has an eggwhite omelette for breakfast and then snacks on salmon with lowfat mayo during the day--so she is more heavily into protein on her DD's-other people???
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:22 AM   #172
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No Weigh In This Week because. . .

Friday I wound up in the hospital with acute pancreatitis! Sorry I wasn't here to welcome you to our group Minnas because I really enjoy your posts on the ML. By the way, I'm someone who focuses totally on protein on DDs because I think it's critical in any low calorie plan, but I can't even get close to my daily requirements (that's for UDs).

About my hospital stay--Friday afternoon I drove to my sister's office (2 hours away) because we were going out to celebrate her birthday. I had made it an UD and was looking forward to a nice meal and glass of wine.

While I was sitting in her office waiting for her to finish up (she's the office manager for a neurosurgeon), I suddenly got intense abdominal pain, along with burping. It seemed like 'gas,' but 1) I rarely get gas pains; 2) this was a pain as intense as when my appendix ruptured when I was 18--not at all pain to ignore.

Had it lasted more than the 30 min. or so, I would have said that we needed to go to the ER [I delayed because I just didn't want to ruin her birthday], but just as she was ready to leave, the pain was dissipating, and I thought the 'episode' was over.

However, as we were in the elevator, my blood pressure dropped like a stone, and I dropped along with it! Fortunately, her boss was still around, and he watched over me until the paramedics arrived. They were wonderful, and although I didn't want to go to the ER, they warned me that it was really necessary because my BP was so dangerously low.

Everyone thought this was just a minor case of dehydration, so in the ER, I kept insisting that my BP would go up with fluids, but it wasn't moving up much. Because of my pain, the doctor checked and discovered that my pancreatic enzymes were sky high, and so they admitted me.

You'd think that the 2 days without food would result in weight loss, but not so because they were hydrating me with a GLUCOSE solution, and I'm sure it was more calories than I normally eat! But the bright side is that I now HAVE to be low fat--probably close to Stillman level, so that might help me lose a little. At the point, however, weight loss is the furthest thing from my mind.

I have an appointment with my own gastro to try to identify the cause of this because I certainly don't want any recurrence!
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:28 AM   #173
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My goodness Leo! Here we all thought you were having a good time with your sister. I'm glad to here you are feeling better. I guess if you have to collapse, a doctor's elevator is the place to do it.

Is LF the treatment for pancreatitis? Do you have to do anything else?
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:38 AM   #174
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The "treatment" is no food at all, so that's why I was on intravenous fluids for 2 days. Then the follow up is low fat, mainly because that's easier for the body to digest, and you want as little stress on the digestive system as possible.

Since they don't know the cause of this (in my case), I just need to be careful. I have a follow up with my own gastro on Wednesday, but the doctor in the hospital was rather puzzled by my situation, so it may be that we'll never find a true cause.

I was checking on the internet, and one of the 'triggers' is listed as "other autoimmune disorders," so I'm really wondering if this might be related to my Hashimoto's at all.

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Old 06-21-2010, 07:48 AM   #175
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Wow. My MIL had a bout of pancreatitis, but she had it simulaneously with a heart attack- in her OWN doctors waiting room and they blew her off until my SIL called 911. That is a strange story. They never really found a cause for her. They were focused on the heart attack at the time and her gastro did tests for the pancreatitis later but didn't find anything conclusive. She is fine now, but yikes that was a mess for awhile.

That is interesting about the autoimmune relationship. I know you don't eat wheat, but does it upset your stomach or give you other symptoms? When I was investigating my thyroid mess I was SURE I had Hashimoto's because of my wheat allergy/intolerance, but no antibodies.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:51 AM   #176
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OMG Leo! Thank god help was nearby--I know you have been having BP drops at other times--how scary--pancreatitis is one of the most painful conditions there is--I hope they get to the bottom of this PRONTO!! Please keep us posted on how things are going for you, and screw the weightloss at the moment! glucose is what you needed--your pancreas needed it! love to you--Ouis
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:52 AM   #177
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Oh my goodness, Leo! I thought something was wrong because you never posted that you would be gone overnight and that it was only a two hour drive to your sister. I agree with Gina; if you had to have "an episode," you were at the right place. I know you'll take good care of yourself. I will hold you in my prayers that nothing is serious and you have a complete recovery.

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Old 06-21-2010, 07:55 AM   #178
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Oh Leo!! That sounds scary. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Good timing though with having your episode in the doctor's office. Yeah, if it's gotta happen I guess that's the place to be.

I hope you find some answers as to what happened and that it's relatively easy to manage for you. Low fat all the time? Fun times!

Hang in there sister! I'll be thinking of you.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:44 AM   #179
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I had split pea soup for lunch (200 calories). Now, I wish I would have made Linda Sue's moch split pea soup - using fresh green beans. I could have had twice the volume if I make it with chicken broth. Live and learn - next time!
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:51 PM   #180
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Thanks for all your good wishes!

I have an appointment with my own gastro on Wednesday afternoon, and I'll see what he thinks of all this. He knows that we never found any source for my 'gall bladder troubles' ten years ago. A few months eating low fat really helped, and those episodes ended.

It would be nice to know what precipitated this attack, however, because I don't like mysteries where my health is concerned, but we never found a cause for my gall bladder disturbances.

Gina-
Don't be too sure you don't have Hashimoto's. I was diagnosed by the pathologist who did the FNA on my nodule. At the time, my endo commented that it was interesting because although the biopsy is conclusive, he would not have been able to make a diagnosis based on the low level of antibodies.

I've read that if the thyroid isn't being attacked at the time the blood is drawn, the antibodies won't be high. I don't know if that's true, but I know that my antibodies were low and yet I have Hashimoto's.

Redeemed-
One of the benefits of JUDDD is that we're getting to be experts at lowering calories. I had some jumbo frozen shrimp in my freezer, and I decided that if I was going to eat low fat, it should be luxuriously. And so few calories, too!
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