May JUDDD--We can do hard things!
May JUDDD--We can do hard things!
JUDDD/Alternate Day Diet Thread (We can do hard things....)
There are two phases: weight loss and maintainance. To lose weight, calorie intake on the “down” day is limited to 20% to 35% of daily calorie requirement, although it is strongly recommended that calories be below 25% when starting a weight loss diet. To maintain weight loss and for optimal health, down day intake is kept at 50% to 60% of calorie needs.
Use the following tool (go to Dr JOhnsons website for this) to calculate the down day calorie requirements. There is a strong tendency for overweight individuals to overestimate the "Activity" level, thereby allowing themselves high calorie allowance on the down day. To avoid this problem, for the first two weeks, you should consume no more than 500 calories on the down day regardless of your activity level.
Please google Dr. Johnson's site to find the Up Day Down Day Calorie Calculator
*This calculator provides an estimate of your calorie requirement so that you can determine your down day calories. The "Normal Calories" shown may be more or less than you actually feel like eating on the up day. The important principle is to adhere to the down day calorie limit as closely as possible. You do not have to eat all the calories shown as "Normal Calories".
The key to success on the down day is learning what works for you. Remember that you can eat tomorrow. The book will detail useful techniques for down day hunger management.
Other diets require daily reduction in calorie intake or limit the type of food eaten. This requires intricate meal plans and menus, cooking separate meals, and often more expensive foods. This wastes a lot of time and creates great stress. With the Johnson UpDayDownDay Diet™, you are allowed to eat whatever you want on the up day and your choices are greatly simplified on the down day, markedly reducing stress.
We have observed a consistent, measurable dramatic increase in energy level which is noticeable within 7-10 days which peaks around three weeks on the diet. This is consistent with animal studies in calorie restriction. This is a desirable and reinforcing sensation which encourages you to keep going.
The Up Day
On the up day, you can eat anything you want and as much as you want, but do not intentionally over eat.
When starting out, it is important to not concern yourself with up day calorie intake because of the phenomena of diet stress and diet fatigue. Focus on staying under 20-25% on the down day.
Based on animal research, the type of food eaten on the up day is unimportant compared to adhering to the down day calorie limit. This will activate genes (SIRT1) which set in motion the beneficial processes which produce optimal health.
The Down Day
It is important to commit in advance to a certain number of calories on the down day. We strongly suggest 20 – 25% for the first two weeks, but find that 30 - 35% is more tolerable for some people for a prolonged period of dieting. The lower the calories on the down day, the better, but the most important thing is to find a caloric intake you can comply with on ongoing basis.
We strongly suggest using only commercially prepared shakes in the first two weeks. Later, prepared foods with the calorie content marked on them can be eaten.. This is critically important to help guard against the universal tendency to underestimate how much we are eating.
How much you lose depends on several factors, the average in our study was 2.5 pounds per week, more the first week or two.
You should weigh yourself only on the morning after a down day and not more often than once a week or fluctuations will lead to frustration.
Down Day Recipes
It is important to choose a shake which is personally tolerable and satisfying. There are a number on the market including Atkins Advantage, Slim Fast Optima, MetRx. For weight loss diet, it is highly advisable that for the first two weeks, you consume only shakes on the down day.
Delicious, easy, very low calorie recipes are available in the soon to be published book, The Johnson UpDayDownDay Diet™.
What People On The Diet Have To Say
“I will never diet any other way. I lost 30 pounds three years ago which I have kept off without the awful feeling of being on the diet.” – Heidi P.
“There was never a time in my entire life when I wasn’t wheezing from asthma until after being on the diet for two weeks.” – Theresa G.
“I couldn’t walk 50 feet without resting. After three weeks on the diet, I spent all day walking around the shopping mall.” – Ellen M.
“My rheumatoid arthritis got better 31 days after starting the diet.” – Judy L.
For more information, visit Dr. Johnson's website, or read his book,
"The Alternate-Day Diet: Turn on Your 'Skinny Gene,' Shed the Pounds, and Live a Longer and Healthier Life."
Weekly Weigh In
What a nice suprise for the new month--down 4 lbs (to 177--a new decade for me!).
As most of you know, I 'waffled' around 180 all through April, so I don't think this is a one-week loss but a gradual loss throughout the month that didn't register on the scale until this morning.
Or perhaps the fact that I ate "cleanly" and low calorie all week spurred the loss? I didn't overdo last weekend (as I'm prone to do). I was also 'starving' all day yesterday, and I wonder whether that really was my body warning me that it was tapping into my fat stores? For the first time in many months, I was so tempted to have a snack at bedtime (trouble falling asleep because I was so hungry), but I resisting, reminding myself that I could eat in the morning.
I'm just so relieved to see the scale go down because I didn't want to get stuck at 180. JUDDD really works!
WOW Leo!! Just shows to go ya how important it is not to lose hope!!!!! Congrats girl--I am so impressed--
That's great news Leo! Things really do even out in the big scheme of things, don't they?
I am happy to report 4 lbs down this week amd a new decade too! I went from 180 to 176. That's a total of 9 lbs for this month, but in little spurts. Down 1, down 4, down 0, down 4. I haven't been this weight since the mid 80s. I'm glad I didn't save any clothes.
I got mixed up in an egg fast over in the ML and it has been working for me. I can't call what I am doing an egg fast really, I've been eating beef, chicken, some dairy and a few veggies. I even had two pieces of sushi off my son's plate last night. I think what is really doing the trick is the strict mentality of it. Usually I eat "healthy" and "lower carb." That was leaving me too much wiggle room, especially on up days.
I also think I had some pent-up losses too and now that I am getting my thyroid meds and a bunch of deficiencies taken care of my body is finally letting go.
We are visiting family this weekend and have a couple of celebrations lined up (one includes a buffet) so I'll do salad, veggeis and meat and reevaluate the m&e thing next week.
Have a great day everyone!
I know it's not popular on the ML to say this, but my experience is that low-ER fat and watching calories is important to my loss.
Perhaps it's a question of age, but even when I did Atkins '72 IN '72, there wasn't this insistance on adding fat--just the fact that fat was OK, and I relied on mainly what was in my foods.
I'm not by any measure "low fat," but I do use Hellmann's "light" mayo (which I doctor with vinegar and lemon juice--sometimes hot sauce, to further reduce calories). I use olive oil for salads and veggies, and I eat fatty fish like salmon. And I eat meat, and never trim anything. So I know I'm getting enough fat, but I'm not wallowing in it with HWC and cream cheese, etc.
And if this week proved anything to me, it's that calories DO count--at least for me. If I go over 1600 on an UD, I will not lose--period. This week I kept my UDs at 1200, and I was satisfied at that level, but it made the DDs a little tougher. But I think that's only because I had let my UDs get out of control for a while, and I think that if I persist at this level, the hunger will diminish on DDs (although in my experience on JUDDD, DDs can be unpredictable, so I'm not overly concerned).
One reason I think I stopped losing before JUDDD was that I convinced myself that I was eating low carb and "heathily," when I gave myself, as you so well put it, too much "wiggle room."
One reason this 'egg fast' (incl meat) is working so well for you is that it's very low carb, and you're getting good quality protein. I find that in addition to eating low carb, I have to get sufficient protein. You should be in ketosis enough to withstand the weekend. Congratulations on the loss!
Hello Everyone, My name is Brittney and I'm very interesting in trying JUDDD , I really think this way of eating would work for me. Do you recommend that I go ahead and buy the book ? Or is the information on the internet sufficient enough?
Oh and I'm currently doing the eggfast too :)
brittany--I think you can find most of what you need on the internet, on this thread and from these folks--and JUDDD is great!
Gina--Hooray for you!!!!! I tried the eggfast too, but it triggered binging behavior for me. Just can't do the deprivation thing, even if I am full--isn't that weird??????
Leo. You and me babe. You and me. Low-er fat for sure. As you know, I have not been weighing, but into my skinniest size 8 jeans!! I am a very heavy person--I have heavy bones and a lot of muscles--and yet it is all pretty compact. Like you Leo, I carry a LOT of loose skin. I have been kind of maintenance/lowfat mode and think I have started losing again! I have been staying lowfat lowcarb on both ud's and dds--and it is helping me. I just have to keep telling myself that I am different from all those people who keep claiming that fat makes them lose better. Not me! I am not NO fat--I eat salmon, cheese, etc--but the overall trend has to be the lowfat choices. Oddly on my DDs no to low fat protein satiates me a lot better than higher fat protein--isnt that odd?
Carbup day today--I am putting on a huge charity event--and couldn't resist the donuts at 6am as I was schlepping auction items, lol. My carbup days have been 1-2x month and they really also seem to be helping--the next day is always without fail a DD.
Nitenurse, Kisha, Pam etc--check in soon! Miss you!!
:welcome:I, too, don't think you need to buy the book. I bought it because JUDDD was working so well for me that I wanted to 'reward' Dr. Johnson, but there's nothing in the book that you can't get online.
The information in the first post on this thread is copied directly from the official JUDDD site, and you can find the calculator there that tells you how many DD calories you should have. (If you Google "JUDDD,' you should find that site with no trouble.) If you have any questions, don't hestitate to post for us--some of us are JUDDD 'old timers.'
I don't think you're weird at all. In fact on the ML, Pauline (TaDa) always advises people who try restrictive diets and fail that deprivation has caused binge behavior for her in the past, and it seems to be a fairly common reaction. It's interesting that JUDDD doesn't do that to you--or is that why you've struggled with UDs in the past? Now that I think of it, a lot of folks on here (many who left) had trouble with out-of-control UDs, and it may have been that deprivation thing kicking in because DDs certainly are restrictive!
I also don't think you're odd by being filled more by protein than fat--so am I! In fact, I have been observing a lot of herd mentality since I joined these boards, and I really believe that some people have brainwashed themselves into believing that high fat is the key to their loss when it is actually slowing them.
For example, I lurk sometimes on the threads of people with 100+lbs to lose (because I've been there and think sometimes that I can offer advice). What I've noticed is that a lot of them are eating low carb, but they make fancy 'recipes' that are low protein, high fat (and very high calorie), including desserts. Many of them lose 2 lbs and gain 4 over and over. Then they get frustrated, cheat for a few days, and return to low carb. They really think that their cheating is the problem, but I think it's the fat and calories.
I sometimes get amused by the 'fads' here. When I joined, everyone was singing the praises of GLA--obsessively. Do you ever see anything about that now? Unfortunately, I got sucked into the coconut oil thing and had a bad experience (my LDL went up 50 points!), but no one here credits my experience because we all know that coconut oil is a perfect food and the key to weight loss.
So Ouis, Nitenurse, Michelle, Snaggle, Kisha, et al., I need you to post here because this thread is my support, and I know I could not do JUDDD without you.
Ouis & Leo- Thank you so much for your kindness, I look forward to starting my journey with JUDDD, I see that they mention that the first 2 weeks you should drink the shakes on Down days... do you recommend any? if so how many a day ? Thanks !
Thank you Leo for starting our May thread!!!
YEAH to Leo and Gina for new weight ranges!! Super great way to start the month!
Thank you for all the responses to my protein shake question. I did notice that it made me a bit more hungry on the DDs. Normally, I don't eat breakfast and do great until lunch. I added the low calorie homemade shake in the morning and had to eat lunch earlier and I wanted to keep eating. I think I will try to have the shake at lunch or dinner and see how it goes.
Hi Brittany!! Glad to have you here!
Hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend! :D
During the first two weeks, the Down Days (and only the Down Days) are 500 calories or below (depending on the number you get from the calculator.
Dr. J recommends shakes because it's essential not to go over those 500 cal, and he thinks (and research shows) that most people overestimate their calories when they're eating real food--thus the shakes (which should have a calorie count on the can) are advised to insure that you keep your calories within the limit.
My problem with that was that I needed real food--and since I've been calorie counting most of my life, I figured I could handle it. I tried doing shakes, but I didn't last too long. HOWEVER, I never eat anything on a DD unless I am absolutely sure of the # of calories--I never estimate or guess.
There's a thread here somewhere of DD 'recipies' where folks have listed some of the things they eat on DDs.
If you don't have a problem having just shakes (it's every other day, remember), then that might be the easiest solution for you. But keep in mind that it's not the shakes themselves that are key to this plan--it's the number of calories.
Leo- thank you so much !! :)
excellent DD yesterday. I have been making glucomannan shakes with various flavourings, ice, water and a few tbs of glucomannan gel. blend and you have a thick and delicious shake for next to no calories. my fave has been mocha with decaf coffee, a tbs cocoa powder and a couple of ounces of unsweetened almond milk, gel and vanilla davincis. wow!
Going to do the same shakes with a little more substance today as well as some decent lower fat protein.
Good Morning JUDDDers!!
:welcome: Brittney! This thread should have all the info you need!
Leo - Congrats on your continued losses! I love to see JUDDD working long term.
Well, I did the meat and egg fast for 3 days last week and it really helped me drop a few pounds and get my appetite under control. I did have a big UD weekend, but it had been planned! I am up a few lbs, but of course I retain water like there is no tommorrow. It's a DD for me today and I expect to lose the water fairly quickly.
Hi folks. I am back from my weekend of UDs. I am up a bit, but no more than usual. I was afraid after doing M&E last week all my lost lbs would come screeching back with a vengeance, but no. My appetite sure did last night though after loosening up Saturday and Sunday.
Yay @ Gina & Leo! You guys are kicking ass.
I'm just checking in and subbing to the thread for this month.
My weight still holding stead at just under where it was at my doc appointment last month on 4/7
I'm back to "not dieting" which for me just means not restricting calories. I'm focusing on vegetables and protein. I'm NOT GAINING anymore which is really all I can hope for until the rest of my deficiencies and imballances get addressed. My appointment is Thursday hoepfully I'll have answers then. I'll also be asking my doc for guidance regarding dieting/calorie restriction since I've been told by several "experts" on the boards not to be doing that right now. And I'm not. I'm eating healthy and not gaining.
I'll check back in after my dr. appointment.
Hi all! I have been reading on and off lately. I just wanted to clarify that my reason for leaving had more to do with wanting to formally sign off instead of just disappearing without saying bye! I've been on here a couple of years and it would have felt weird. I just don't have as much time to post as I would like these days. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. I certainly wasn't offended and hope I didn't offend! I think I've always felt a tad out of place as I only had a bit to lose and I wasn't low carb. But everyone here has been very helpful! :hugs:
Leo - great results! Congrats on a new decade!
Ouis - you are like me, even though I am not hungry I can still feel deprived! Must be a psychological thing!
Kisha - I hope you get some great advice from your doc at your app.
Michelle - hopefully you get a big water woosh!
Janetaz - how are you finding the shakes?
Gina - you are doing really well too! Congrats on the loss!
Brittany - welcome. This is a great woe and you will find all the info. you need online. I bought the book and didn't find a lot I didn't already know.
Hi to anyone I missed! I read this the other day re: fasting and it led me to a question some of you may be able to answer: do the DD's of 500 cals or less give us these same benefits (listed below) as if we weren't eating anything at all?
Mitochondria inside your body’s cells use carbohydrates to make cell fuel. The molecular by-product: free radicals that damage DNA, impair cellular function, and promote cancer. Here’s how fasting may help.
1. Fewer free radicals: during a fast, the mitochondria, sensing a lack of food, become more efficient. Like a cleaner-burning fire, they start producing fewer free radicals per calorie burned, says Eric Ravussin, Ph.D., a clinical investigator at Pennington Biomedical Research Center.
2. More antioxidants: The diminishing number of free radicals is met by an increase in antioxidant production within your cells. These enzymes “search and destroy free radicals,” says Mark Mattson, Ph.D., a neuroscientist at the National Institutes of Health.
3. Stronger cells: This cleaner calorie-burning also produces a surge in beneficial stress hormones, such as cortisol and growth hormone. “Exercise during a fast and the increase is even greater,” says Ravussin, adding that the hormones prepare cells for worse stresses. “They’ll better resist tumors and rebound faster from a heart attack.”
4.Break Food Addiction. Hunger & cravings are often more mental than physical. Fasting teaches you to control both.
What do you think?
I don't have my book on JUDDD (loaned it to someone), but my memory is that this is Dr. Johnson's belief--i.e., he initially became interested in the scientific studies where people (or mice?) fasted on alternate days, but he thought that most people would not be able to adhere to such restriction long term. So he experimented and concluded that the same benefits were possible with <500 calories rather than total fast.
I'm not sure that this matters to me personally because one can't be certain of the physiological benefits, and I was primarily interested in JUDDD solely for weight loss. However, that final point about getting control of one's food issues has been certainly true for me in this program, so perhaps the other benefits are there as well.
I'm curious about maintaining with JUDDD and thus raising DD calories above 500. This is what Dr. J claims he does, and I wonder whether that means this process still works--i.e., so long as alternate day calories are much lower than the UDs? Again, I don't know, but I see JUDDD as a way to maintain that can work for me.
Right now I'm concentrating on just taking this all a day at a time. I'm struggling to get through this DD. It's a rainy, gloomy day here, and something about this weather seems to stimulate my appetite. But I'm reminding myself that this is entirely psychological and does not mean that I need to eat;)
Pam --good to hear from you and thanks so much for the update on you!
Leo--your comment about cold and rainy reminded me--If anyone can find Pacific Mushroom Broth--it is 5 cals/cup and it is just wonderful! I like it so much better than chicken broth--I mix it with a packet of snipped shirataki mushrooms and some sauteed mushrooms and maybe a dash of hot sauce--so so satisfying.
Pacific Mushroom Broth? This is something you can buy in the store, and that's its name? I usually don't buy canned soup because of the sodium (and I worry about other additives, too).
Last week, I made a concoction by 'accident' that was delicious. I had some of my chicken broth with vinegar and hot sauce, and I had a package of sliced mushrooms in the fridge that I needed to use up before they went bad. I simmered them in the broth, and then I pulverized the soup in my blender so that I still had some chunks of mushroom. It was a great DD meal!
I an an UD 'dessert' yesterday that I will have to limit to weekends--or I'll get carried away. As you know I don't use any sweeteners, but every once in a while, I want some chocolate (it's so healthy:-)
The only Lindt chocolate I can get locally is only 85% cocoa, and that's too much sugar for me. So I bought unsweetened baking chocolate that's 100% cocoa. I had half a square (70 cal) topped with a T of almond butter. (Next time, I plan to melt the chocolate in the microwave and mix it with the almond butter.) It was delicious and for some reason very, very filling because I had it as a snack and wasn't hungry for hours.
With my DD struggles recently, I've returned to the mantra we used at the beginning of JUDDD--"I can eat that tomorrow." It still works!
Hi to all the Juddders and welcome Brittney!
I just got back from 10 days in Mexico, and I was so crazy before I left town, I didn't
get a chance to post and say goodbye. So glad to see everybody back here.
I did not weigh this morning, but will do so tomorrow, if I am brave. I was pretty unrestricted on vacation and did not exercise as much as I had planned due to it being really hot and muggy.
Can't wait to read back through all the posts I missed. I did see your post Leo and am
motivated by your success, as usual. Great job to you too Gina!
I am going to get back to JUDDD, but want to try a few days of low carb first to get rid of all the carbiness (is that a word?) and hopefully squelch my cravings.
hey Snaggle! Welcome back! sounds like a fun vaca!
Leo--yes--it is Pacific Organic Mushroom broth and it is just delish--of course the sodium is probably awful, but it sure is tasty--
your chocolate almond treat sounds to die for. I couldn't do it because I can't have almond butter (even the little Justin's packets) in my house. sigh.
VERY good UD today. Yay for me! Yay for lean protein!
Welcome back, Snaggle! What I find is that if I've been away, a couple of DDs usually takes care of any "dietary indiscretions." Of course, I still try to stay low carb on vacation, so you're probably wise to just low carb for a while.
I'll look for that soup next time I'm in the supermarket, but I'll bet it's not here on the East coast.
Got through another DD, even though I had eaten all my calories by noon! I'm beginning to think the key to DDs is mental because I had little difficulty not eating for the rest of the day by reminding myself that I've done this before. Just those thoughts seemed to banish any ideas about eating any more. A lot of hot tea sufficed for the rest of the day.
Ack! Mindless eating. Yesterday was a DD and all was going well until about 7:00. DH is working out of town, so we were chatting on the phone. As we are talking, I start thinking I'm hungry. So without thinking it through I get a spoon and have at least 2 tbls of almond butter. :doh: I guess it wasn't Dorritos, but it sure isn't low cal.
I'm going to focus on meat & eggs again this week and break for the weekend. It was pretty easy and it sure did take care of my hunger and cravings. I am up a tiny bit from last weekend but I think that will take care of itself and I hope to see a little VFT in the next few days.
Have a great JUDDD day everyone!
Yes, mindless eating will do us in every time! Been there often myself:annoyed:
A lot of people do well by watching during the week and eating free-er on weekends, so this might work for you Gina.
Alas, I know from experience that it doesn't work for me:down:
But I think the major benefit of JUDDD (for me at least) is learning what works and doesn't work for me personally.
Day one of low carb- done, by the skin of my teeth. Wow, I had forgotten just how bad the cravings can be when you go cold turkey. I had the munchies all day/night. I let myself eat whatever I wanted as long as there were no carbs. If I recall, this part should only take a couple of days and hopefully, then, I will have more control and can get back to good down days. I am letting go of a lot of fluids and feel better already.
Looking forward to getting back on Juddd.
Leo, I am glad you think my idea of low carbing first is sound. When I first started Juddd one year ago, I did a week of strict induction first and then switched to JUDDD and did better than I have been doing lately. I need to reread my journals, but I think the main difference between my orignal foray into judding (which was successful) and my attempts this year (which were not) is the level of carbs.
You keep saying how you don't even crave carbs anymore and clearly, that has been a key part of your success. I just hope that I can get to goal by adopting some of your good habits. Although I don't plan to give them up entirely, I need to get back to a more low-carb eating style. I know my husband will greatly benefit from this because he has had more success with low carbing than with JUDDD.
I know that I could not do JUDDD if I didn't low carb. I never totally lose my appetite, but I could not do DDs if it weren't somewhat controlled by my low carb WOE.
Your experience with 'cold turkey' reminded me that in the distant past when I wasn't low carbing (it really has been quite some time), I could easily eat 3500 calories of carb-free food and not be satisfied. I think that's one of the things that keeps me low carb--i.e., knowing how quickly I can gain if I eat carbs.
It helps that I now believe that low carb is actually the healthiest WOE for me, and I really enjoy eating this way. I actually make myself include veggies because I don't think that VLC is healthy for me.
I did a high carb day recently to try to stimulate some loss, and I really didn't enjoy it at all. However, I don't suffer all the 'problems' that people report from their 'cheats'--I felt fine, and I had no difficulty at all getting back to low carb (and a DD) immediately. You might think about this as you're struggling to get back to low carb--i.e., since I low carb almost all the time, I don't ever have to say 'never.' If I eat some 'bad carbs' for some planned occasion, I know that I can get right back on track. Knowing that I can eat carbs if I want to really makes my choice not to eat them much easier.
(I hope this makes sense.)
So you don't have to think, "We'll never eat (or drink) X again." "Tomorrow is another day," as Scarlett O'Hara would say.
boy Leo--i just have to pipe in and say, ain't that the truth. I go all high carb every few weeks for 8 hours or so--and have NO worries because I have no problem at all getting immediately back on the LC horse. It never (so far) derails me. As a matter of fact, I do think I am one of those people who should have a high carb day every couple of weeks in order to keep losing (wish I had known that the other 3 years I was lowcarbing so very perfectly without results). Must be because of the hypothyroidism. JUDDD allows that to work for me and to work well--but I could never do JUDDD without the blood sugar control I get from LC. Raging hunger and fasting don't go well together.
Snaggle --I am interested to hear how it goes for you.
Where are all the rest of our JUDDD family these days?
Yeah--you guys need to jump in here because we need the support we get from this thread!
Kisha--even if you're not in weight loss mode right now, you can still provide tips from your vast experience of both low carb and JUDDD.
And Snaggle, now that you're back, I hope you post often, too.
C'mon Gina, don't abandon us for meat and eggs. You can eat whatever you like and still post with us.
aww I love you guys I'm not abandoning you i just feel silly since I'm not even remotely JUDDing right now. I'll have more to contribute after my appointment thursday I hope!
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