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Old 04-23-2010, 12:03 PM   #181
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you're right about Pam saying iodine supplementation can mess with Hashis

I DON'T have Hashi's. Again have not been back to DR for results interpretation BUT one thing the nurse said as I was leaving was he would address the severe iodine deficiency when he got the rest of the blood work. there might be something else that would show what was causing the deficiency.

Just thinking aloud too but its like once one thing in the system gets messed up everything else can get messed up too! all the hormones/vitamins etc. so interlinked.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:17 PM   #182
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Here's what I'm going to try on myself, but in reading about all this, I realize Kisha that since you don't have Hashi's, it's possible that your hypthyroidism will be 'cured' once they give you iodine! Won't that be great?

According to one source, so many doctors miss iodine deficiency because it was thought to have been eliminated in the US, but apparently our soils are so depleted that food in the 1950s contained about 85% more iodine than today's crops. And iodine deficiency symptoms are so similar to fibro, etc., and since it can be the cause of hypo, doctors just 'treat' the hypo rather than check for iodine.

This is fascinating to me.

How to Self-Test for an Iodine Deficiency

1. Dip a cotton ball into USP Tincture of Iodine. (You can get iodine at the drugstore for under $1.)

2. Paint a 2 inch circle of iodine on your soft skin, like the inner part of your thigh or upper arm.

3. Wait. -- If the yellowish stain disappears in less than an hour; it means your body is lacking crucial iodine and has soaked it up. If the stain remains for more than four hours, you iodine levels are fine.

Why check your iodine levels?

Low iodine levels can zap your energy and make you feel tired, edgy and worn out. Low iodine levels can even prevent you from getting a good night's sleep. Before you go to your doctor with complaints of tossing and turning all night, aches and pains, and just feeling "blah," you may want to perform this self-test.

Because the symptoms of an iodine deficiency are classically identical to so many other illnesses (like depression, stress, chronic fatigue, or fibromyalgia,) many doctors either misdiagnose it or miss it completely and tell you there is nothing wrong.

Why are iodine levels so important?

Low levels of iodine mean your thyroid isn't functioning properly. The thyroid helps balance hormones, regulate heartbeats, stabilize cholesterol, maintain weight control, encourage muscle growth, keep menstrual cycles regular, provide energy, and even helps you keep a positive mental attitude.

Women are naturally prone to iodine deficiencies. That's because the thyroid gland in women is twice as large as in men -- so under normal circumstances, women need more iodine. However, when women are under stress, the need for iodine can double or triple. Yet the foods we eat contain less and less dietary iodine. For example, back in 1940, the typical American diet contained about 800 micrograms of iodine. By 1995, that amount plunged to just 135 micrograms. That's an 83% decline.

Two thirds of the body's iodine is found in the thyroid gland. One of the best ways to boost your iodine levels is to add seaweed sea vegetables to your diet. Just one teaspoon of sea vegetables a day can help you regain normal iodine levels. Incorporating seafood and fish into your diet can also help. Other foods that contain iodine are eggs and dairy products, including milk, cheese and yogurt, onions, radishes, and watercress. Some foods, called goitrogens, should be omitted for awhile as they hinder iodine utilization. These included kale, cabbage, peanuts, soy flour, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, kohlrabi and turnips.

To reactivate the thyroid gland, tyrosine, iodine, zinc, copper and selenium are needed so make sure that foods containing these nutrients are included in your diet.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:37 PM   #183
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VERY interesting... are you going to try that self test Leo? I'd be interested to try it on myself also to "test" it since we know I'm deficient I'd like to see if my body really does suck it up that fast.

The low Vitamin D results I got are also interesting to me since those symptoms mimic hypo TOO! (as does the low female hormone I have) um... so theres like four possible things in addition to the hypo causing my fatigue, hair loss and weight problems.
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:55 PM   #184
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Kisha-
Yes, I just got back from the drugstore, and I've 'painted' a patch on the inside of my upper arm.

If your D3 is really low, you'll feel much better when you supplement. Mine was only "mild insufficiency" in Feb. 2008 (score 29.9 with 'sufficiency' range of 32-100. My endo didn't say a word about supplementing, but I did it on my own, taking 4000IU daily.

I asked him to test it again in June 2009, and it was at 39, with a sufficiency range of 30-100. I've heard that you should ideally be at 55-65, so I'm still supplementing.

But I really feel better with just that little increase. If you're way low, your doctor will probably give you Rx D3 to bring it up faster than I'm doing. And you'll probably feel better once you get into a 'sufficiency' range.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:07 PM   #185
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Kisha-
Yes, I just got back from the drugstore, and I've 'painted' a patch on the inside of my upper arm.

If your D3 is really low, you'll feel much better when you supplement. Mine was only "mild insufficiency" in Feb. 2008 (score 29.9 with 'sufficiency' range of 32-100. My endo didn't say a word about supplementing, but I did it on my own, taking 4000IU daily.

I asked him to test it again in June 2009, and it was at 39, with a sufficiency range of 30-100. I've heard that you should ideally be at 55-65, so I'm still supplementing.

But I really feel better with just that little increase. If you're way low, your doctor will probably give you Rx D3 to bring it up faster than I'm doing. And you'll probably feel better once you get into a 'sufficiency' range.
Yeah I'm really looking forward to all my supplemetns! LOL. I wish my appointment were sooner but I can wait.

Curious to hear how this paintpatchiodine test comes out!
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:47 PM   #186
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I have read that iodine deficiency is on the rise because of modern farming methods. It should be in the soil to be absorbed by the plants we eat (or the animals that eat the plants), but with modern fertilizers it isn't. The government found out about it sometime back... I can't remember when.. 1920s maybe.. and that is when they started iodizing salt (and another product too, but I can't remember which one). It is worse in some soils than others. It is particularly bad in the Great Lakes area and it got the nickname "The Goiter Belt." I'm at work now, but I'll look through my books this weekend and see if I can find better details.

I was listening to NPR very early on a Saturday a few weeks ago and heard a lecture by the author of a book called Dead Doctors Don't Lie who believes we need to be supplementing minerals heavily because we aren't getting them from our food because they have been depleted from the soil. He blames the lack of wood ash in the environment- we don't let wildfires burn and we don't use wood for energy anymore and fertilize our crops with the ash. Made sense to hear him tell it, but I haven't bought hs supplements.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:53 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Ilpirata View Post
The low Vitamin D results I got are also interesting to me since those symptoms mimic hypo TOO! (as does the low female hormone I have) um... so theres like four possible things in addition to the hypo causing my fatigue, hair loss and weight problems.
I'm not laughing at you, but it is weird how much we are alike. I have all that stuff low too. Most of mine are in the low end of normal though. Not much got flagged by the labs but the doc said it was low enough to feel bad, especially all put together. How about Epstein Barr virus?
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:04 PM   #188
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I'm not laughing at you, but it is weird how much we are alike. I have all that stuff low too. Most of mine are in the low end of normal though. Not much got flagged by the labs but the doc said it was low enough to feel bad, especially all put together. How about Epstein Barr virus?
I was postive for past EBV yes.

My LOW FLAGGED results are:

Vitamin D 12 LOW (Range 20-100)
Pregnenolone 5LOW (Range 7-188)
Iodine 18 LOW (Range 120)
Low Flagged from the Metabolic Panel:
Creatine .55 LOW (Range .58-1.06)
CO2 17 LOW (Range 21-33)

I think there are alot of others that are low in range and my RT3 is high in range but not as high as yours... and some others like the Leptin are high in range.

What did he say about your Low Pregnenolone? I'm reading thats replaced with bio-identical hormone... I'm also reading that it has alot to do with energy levels.. oh and that one cause of low pregnenolone is hypO which I geuss makes sense.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:37 PM   #189
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I was postive for past EBV yes.

My LOW FLAGGED results are:

Vitamin D 12 LOW (Range 20-100)
Pregnenolone 5LOW (Range 7-188)
Iodine 18 LOW (Range 120)
Low Flagged from the Metabolic Panel:
Creatine .55 LOW (Range .58-1.06)
CO2 17 LOW (Range 21-33)

I think there are alot of others that are low in range and my RT3 is high in range but not as high as yours... and some others like the Leptin are high in range.

What did he say about your Low Pregnenolone? I'm reading thats replaced with bio-identical hormone... I'm also reading that it has alot to do with energy levels.. oh and that one cause of low pregnenolone is hypO which I geuss makes sense.
I am on a pregnenolone supplement. He said it's a hormone, but not an Rx. He has it there in his office. I'm not sure it's doing anything. It is hard to tell since I'm taking so much stuff. He said my leptin was off too, but we haven't gotten to that yet. I am on Cortisol for my adrenals.

He said there is treatment for Epstein-Barr but it can be worse than the symptoms. He asked if I sometimes feel like I have a fever, but I don't or if I feel like I'm coming down with the flu, but then am OK the next day. It happens about once a month, more often if I get run down.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:39 PM   #190
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I am on a pregnenolone supplement. He said it's a hormone, but not an Rx. He has it there in his office. I'm not sure it's doing anything. It is hard to tell since I'm taking so much stuff. He said my leptin was off too, but we haven't gotten to that yet. I am on Cortisol for my adrenals.

He said there is treatment for Epstein-Barr but it can be worse than the symptoms. He asked if I sometimes feel like I have a fever, but I don't or if I feel like I'm coming down with the flu, but then am OK the next day. It happens about once a month, more often if I get run down.
It says right on my lab range that my result indicates past epstein barr not current... I sure don't remember ever being told I had mono!

ETA: Yes it looks like there are alot of OTC pregnenolone supplements
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:17 PM   #191
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...
I want to try that test I heard about only because I have used iodized salt almost all of my life--and I like a lot of salt--so if I'm deficient, then how does one get iodine? Surely except for people with medical issues, we shouldn't have to supplement for every substance the body needs?...
Well, it seems we have to supplement for a lot of things...Vitamin D being really common, for example.

As Brownstein explains it, iodized salt is 1) refined and harmful as opposed to unrefined, natural salt, which apparently actually has a different pH than iodized salt and 2) not heavily fortified enough to take care of total biological needs and 3) does not provide even the expected level of iodine due to bioavailability issues.

According to the book, iodization of salt started up after studies done in my geographic region, known as the "goiter belt." The amount people were supposed to get from the salt, at an expected intake of 5 grams of salt per day, would be enough to avoid most goiters and cretinism. And Brownstein acquiesces that it has done that much. However, the amount is not enough to allow for optimal function of the thyroid or other cells in the body that require iodine.

He provides a table with some foodstuffs and iodine content, although they are book values and subject to inaccuracy. He points out they may be out of date.

Depletion of minerals in soil prevents crops raised on them from containing those minerals. I have a bit of an ag background and I have to say, I haven't heard of anyone adding iodine into their soil. Iodine doesn't really help crop yields (like lime, phosphorous, etc.) so farmers would not invest. Having bred horses for the last 12 years, I know that in feeding them and what Alton Brown calls "meat critters," there is reliance on recommendations of the NRC which develops something like RDA's for livestock. The goal in iodine supplementation of those animals deals concisely with the prevention of goiter (golly, sort of like our iodized salt...), and no one is that concerned about their optimal thyroid function. It follows that if they aren't being fed much iodine, they certainly can't deliver much iodine to the people who eat them.

So I think that argument has some merit.

My eyes are starting to glaze over at stories of people who had breast cancer and, instead of taking "conventional treatments," continued eating their organic nuts and berries (a little irreverent, but you know what I mean) or whatever and added iodine which worked a cure. I am still reading

But where are the docs who can sensibly combine wisdom from conventional med with knowledge of alternative therapies? My PCP said, "You either have to see an endo or continue with your functional medicine guy." And it sure does seem it is an either/or proposition.





ETA: Teach me for replying without reading all the way to the end of the thread! Leo, how did your patch go?
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:06 AM   #192
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OK--If this patch test for iodine is a true measure, then I don't have iodine deficiency. The stain was still there 4 hours later when I took a shower. I probably should have left it overnight, but supposedly if it lasted 4 hours, it indicated no deficiency.

Kisha-
I don't ever recall having mono, but, I, too, tested positive for EBV a long time ago. I had felt very tired and run down, and one of my friends who was an MD ran a blood panel to check for stuff.

I told him that I'd never had mono, but he said that there are often such mild cases that we don't even realize we have it--we just feel 'under the weather' for a while. That wasn't the cause of my tiredness at the time because he said that the EBV was inactive (like yours). The blood test just showed that I'd had mono at some time in the past. He said that at my age (at that time 40s) about 80% of adults will test positive because the virus is so prevalent.

Ing-
I think you're right about the either/or situation. You can have a doctor who practices conventional medicine or alternative, but few (if any) combine therapies. I think that if I had cancer, I'd opt for conventional medicine and research alternative remedies on my own. For example, I'm a real believer in the importance of diet (i.e., the foods we eat), and I can do that on my own.

For example, my sister developed severe psoriasis, and it has not been responsive to even the most extreme conventional medical treatment--she's been through them all. I heard an alternative medicine MD on the radio talking about how psoriasis (although auto immune) is often triggered by food sensitivities, mainly dairy, but he's found others. I told my sister about this, advising her to try eliminating dairy first to see if it helped. She just can't be bothered and continues to suffer. Personally, I'd test every food if it could possible clear up my skin!
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:01 AM   #193
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Formally signing off!

Hi ladies,

I will still lurk and cheer you on, but I don't think I will be posting much anymore. I don't really fit in with the group and when I post I usually don't get a response (I am not sensitive, so no feelings were hurt ). I did get excited when I saw the name Pam (that is my real name)! lol But she is the thyroid guru, not moi. I left a parenting forum once, I just stopped posting and someone blasted me for it and said it was immature of me to not say goodbye, so that's what I am doing here. (trying to follow cyber ettiquette)!

Leo - your journey has been inspirational to so many. I am so proud of your success and your insights have been very helpful to me in my journey.

Kisha - your perseverance is greatly admired! Most people would give up, but you keep fighting (just keep swimming, just keep swimming). Ever watch Finding Nemo? Dorrie (Ellen DeGeneres' character) uses that as a motto when life gives her lemons!

Gina and Michelle - glad JUDDD is working for you. Congrats on the new low, Michelle!

To the newbies - KUTGW. May the JUDDD force be with you!

Cheers and all the best,

EmandM/Pam
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:32 AM   #194
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oh em and M--really? I hope you don't leave--it is no good at all to not get a response--I PROMISE to be there for you! Reconsider gf!
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:55 AM   #195
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Morning Ladies!

EmandM, sorry to see you go as I come back in! Yes! The Ellen Degeneres fish: Swim, swim, swim, swim....

Leo, did the stain stay as dark? Even with Lugol's, it fades but does not disappear entirely.

And I meant to say, you are a petite miss! If you have 20-odd pounds of skin contributing to your weight, aren't you just about there? No wonder your body is putting the brakes on you losing more! You are my JUDDD hero

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Old 04-24-2010, 10:31 AM   #196
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EmandM and others--something just to consider--as much as I love all the info about thyroid and iodine deficiency etc--I am wondering if we can bring this forum back more specifically to JUDDD. Absolutely no criticism of the great info that has been recently presented--but I am wondering if the JUDDDness of the forum is getting a little lost. Even though I am taking a wee break from active alternation of UDs and DDs right now, JUDDD is too important a tool to me to get lost--and I hate seeing one of our regulars leave.

What do you guys think? Just for discussions sake?

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Old 04-24-2010, 01:06 PM   #197
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Ouis-

I agree with you, but let me answer Ing first (her last question), and then I'll get back to you and EmandM.

Ing-
After the stain 'dried,' it seemed not to fade at all (or not much) after that. After 4 hours, it was still very apparent, so I assume that my iodine is OK--IF there is any validity to this test.

EmandM-
I'm really concerned that you feel that you don't fit in here OR that we haven't been responding to you. What I've noticed in the past is that sometimes I happen to be posting when a whole bunch of other people seem to have posted, and my post can get 'lost.' I see that when I come back to read and my post is 'buried' in a bunch of related posts that weren't there at the time. I get annoyed because it looks like I'm the one who threw in an irrelevant post in the middle of a discussion. Could this be what happened to you?
I really hope you'll re-consider and at least stop in and chat occasionally. Not everyone here is doing JUDDD at the moment, but we're still supporting each other.

Ouis-
Now back to JUDDD. This week I was eating VLC and low calorie M-Thurs, and my appetite had almost completely disappeared. Then on Friday, my appetitet returned with a vengeance--I was starving all day (proving once again that my body defies the laws of ketosis). So Friday became an UD, which really disoriented me because Fridays have been DDs for the past 18 months--except for Christmas. So today is a DD, and I think I'll go back to JUDDD just for a while to see what my body wants to do. If I don't lose at 400/1200 over the next few weeks, then I'll just try to maintain for a few months.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:06 AM   #198
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Weekly Weigh In
Weighed this morning (Sunday) instead of Saturday because Friday had become an UD. Down (one lb) to 181, which means I've just waffled all month because I was 181 on 3 April. I think my high calorie days and my 'carb up' just screw everything up.

So I'm going to try to stick to "pure" JUDDD for the next few weeks to see if I can get into the 170s--400/1200 is my goal in terms of calories. Getting my UDs under control seems to be twhat I need to do, so I want to see how this works--it has in the past.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:42 AM   #199
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Back to JUDD!

Pam... (OUR Pam EmandM) girl... sorry we missed some of your posts! So lame. Hope you at least lurk and membe give us another chance?

BACK TO JUDD... Well Its been two weeks on my new meds and while I've managed to maintain I do not seem to have lost any LBS. Hey, maintaining is great but its not what I'm after right now esp. 25 LBS up from my low. So, I'll be doing a few DD next week just to break back in. Prolly won't be true induction but I'll do two or three under 1000 cals.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:16 AM   #200
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I had no loss this week either. Too up of UDs I guess, or maybe just evening out from last week's 3 lb loss.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:46 AM   #201
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Gina-
I think you may be right that your body is resisting after the 3 lb loss last week. As you probably know, I lose only a lb a week, but the couple of times that I lost 2 or 3 lbs, there was no loss the following week, even though I ate exactly the same food. My body always reminds me that it's in control of this process
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:47 AM   #202
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I am experiencing" stuckness" again, too, but I dropped 4# a couple weeks ago, so I am telling myself it could be 4 weeks from that point before it moves again. ( I have to do lots of self talk to keep myself going. The dark angel on my other shoulder wants potato chips).
Then there's that old water balance thing,etc.etc. But I do know JUDDD works for me, just don't know when or where. I sure hope I can get back to that steadier pound a week thing again, I felt really good when that was happening. And I don't feel good when there's the more extreme gains and losses.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:19 AM   #203
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I agree with you. Even when I tell myself that my failure to lose will all balance out in the end, it's really unsatisfying. I always want to see a lower number each week, no matter how small the loss [sigh].


Here's a DD discovery. I buy my grass-fed beef online from Wellness Beef, and they have a new product--snack sticks. It's basically a stick of beef--no additives at all, except for a little salt. They need to be refrigerated, so they're not for traveling, but each stick is just 97 cal., and I find them satisfying for a DD 'meal.' I've been dipping mine in mustard because I like mustard.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:58 AM   #204
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Back to JUDD...

erm... did I post that I am going to do some DD? Yep I think I did. Well I had the day off yesterday so I didn't do one.. but I am definately doing one tomorrow! I'm going to plan out my day right now and see if I can get in under 500 calories.

My dr. had a cancellation so I can now get in to see him on 5/6 (YAY) I'd LOVE to have dropped some LBS by then! (and since I'm maintianing on regular low carb I'm pretty sure I can lose with some DD)
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:16 AM   #205
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ooo Leo--those beef stix sound great! I just ordered some ostrim pepper stix from netrition again--I like those a lot--

I've been playing mad scientist with my DD foods--they are filled with AS so not for you Leo, but I like em and they keep my DDs low. Lots of new creations that I dig!

still stalled but not willing to do without AS so i guess it is my own fault if that is the culprit.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:29 PM   #206
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Ouis-

I'm not sure that I believe that specific foods will 'stall' a person--unless the person has a real sensitivity to that food. I lost a lot of weight drinking Diet Coke and having AS for 'treats.' I only stopped them because I realized that my body was processing them like sugar--and they made me hungry on DDs! So enjoy your AS if you enjoy them and keep you satisfied.

I think what happens to a lot of people on low carb is that they don't like the 'monotony' of clean foods (which I actually prefer), and they start making casseroles (lots of cheese and cream) or faux desserts (with a lot of cream cheese and cream besides AS). That piles on calories and thus the 'stall.' There's really no 'magic' to low carb. It might allow a person a few more calories but ultimately there has to be a deficit for any loss to occur. But they will claim that "dairy" stalled them or AS or something else that is just an innocent ingredient in a high-calorie dish.

As I suggested a few posts back, you might be experiencing one of those natural stalls when the body seriously resists losing, either because you're at a personal set point or you've lost a lot of weight.

Kisha-
I'm so glad you have a new appointment with the doctor. Given all the issues that seemed to surface with your blood tests, it seemed to me that you need to see him ASAP to get on the right track with Rx or supplements.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:45 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
Ouis-

I'm not sure that I believe that specific foods will 'stall' a person--unless the person has a real sensitivity to that food. I lost a lot of weight drinking Diet Coke and having AS for 'treats.' I only stopped them because I realized that my body was processing them like sugar--and they made me hungry on DDs! So enjoy your AS if you enjoy them and keep you satisfied.

I think what happens to a lot of people on low carb is that they don't like the 'monotony' of clean foods (which I actually prefer), and they start making casseroles (lots of cheese and cream) or faux desserts (with a lot of cream cheese and cream besides AS). That piles on calories and thus the 'stall.' There's really no 'magic' to low carb. It might allow a person a few more calories but ultimately there has to be a deficit for any loss to occur. But they will claim that "dairy" stalled them or AS or something else that is just an innocent ingredient in a high-calorie dish.

As I suggested a few posts back, you might be experiencing one of those natural stalls when the body seriously resists losing, either because you're at a personal set point or you've lost a lot of weight.

Kisha-
I'm so glad you have a new appointment with the doctor. Given all the issues that seemed to surface with your blood tests, it seemed to me that you need to see him ASAP to get on the right track with Rx or supplements.

YES I'm excited!
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:10 AM   #208
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Hey JUDDDers!

I am still JUDDDing along, and losing. Super slow of course. Anyway, I know I shouldn't get sucked in to whats going on in the ML, but I am going to try the meat and egg fast, but JUDDD style. Basically, still do UD and DD, but only with meat and eggs. I have never done it before and I think it will help tremendously with my appetite. That is my main reason for doing it.

I went almost 2 weeks without dairy and I really did feel better, but it didn't help with weight loss at all. I added some back in over the weekend and boy oh boy did it upset my stomach. That was not pretty. So I think I will stay away from it for now. It really doesn't seem to agree with me. I sure wish staying away from it would speed up the weight loss.

Kisha - So glad to hear you are getting in to see your doctor earlier.

Happy JUDDDing everyone!
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:32 AM   #209
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Hey Michelle!

I did this--JUDDD with M/E on my uds. I think Leo posted about having the weight return when you stopped the m/e and that is what happened to me. I also suffered a little "minirebellion" --which I am prone to do--I think too much deprivation of any kind makes my eating disorder/binge feelings surface--

So--It has been 10 days or so off of JUDDD and I am ready to go back to my DDs today. What worries me is that during those 10 days I ate lowcarb and moderately and I clearly gained back a fair amount of weight--

So--just a cautionary tail--I think some people don't have the same reactivity to deprivation that I have--it is so easy on LCF to get swept up into the latest craze--I feel sometimes like taking a break from the boards so that my brain isn't so easily infected!

moral of the story--I am back to JUDDD and still trying to figure out my UDs--

Ouis
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:56 AM   #210
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Hi Michelle-

Yes, as Ouis mentioned, when I was stalled (before JUDDD), I tried both a meat and egg fast and just eggs alone (2 different times). In both cases, I didn't last more than a week (felt ill), and I think it was my thyroid reaction to lack of carbs. In any case, I lost a few pounds, but as soon as I went back to about 20g with veggies, I gained those back. So I didn't think it was worth it at all. But it may be a case of YMMV, and thus it might work for you.

Ouis-

That's depressing--your gain---because I'd always hoped that I could eventually eat low carb 'moderately' and maintain.

However, I really think that I have to stay with JUDDD and to maintain raise my DD calories to 700 or so. There's no way I could ever return to "normal" eating, whatever that is. The good news is that calorie restriction is supposed to be healthy for old people like me
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