Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > JUDDD
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-21-2010, 10:04 AM   #151
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Hey guys, if you never heard of a doc afraid of treating a patient, I can show you six of 'em!

I went to my BHR doc, and he got me settled in on Armour and prescribed Cortef and prescribed Spironolactone, a diuretic he prefers because of how it interacts with the rest of the hormones in the endocrine system. He is an ob/gyn who treats thyroid people because a lot of his female clients get into thyroid trouble. He is far away from me, and though I would still go there, even he is afraid of my hypoparathyroid issues. So he referred me to the head of internal medicine at the med school (shared this story), an endo, who first freaked out about the Cortef and then spent the rest of the time nattering about needing an idea bracelet and a chair with wheels. That guy determined that my muscle weakness was not a bad enough hypoparathyroid symptom that he needed to treat. In fact, part of the pain and weakness might have been the start of my bilateral frozen shoulders (which an endo maybe should have picked up on, as well, since it is common in diabetics and thyroid peeps...), so whatever.

My PCP is open-minded and will coordinate my care but she doesn't want to prescribe for all of my conditions. She will manage diabetes and that is about it. She said, "If you were driving a Porsche with a high performing but delicate engine, you should not take it to a Ford mechanic. Not that I am a Ford mechanic..." My counter is, if there is only one Porsche mechanic in the country, you may well run out of gas before you get there...

She suggested I see Dr. Brownstein who is in Michigan. I have no feedback on Pam from him. When I checked with her, before I went to see the BHR doc, she had NO prospects for Michigan at all. Everyone on Pam's list was a "don't call." So I am just in a lucky spot.

And I know and you know, it is so hard to get treated for "just" thyroid, but I have failures in at least three of the main organs in the endocrine system (possibly 4 with menopause moving in, and the BHR doc thought I might have a pituitary issue as well). On top of it, I am a lawyer (though I don't as a rule "like" lawyers, don't practice much, and am the least litigious person in the world, somehow that crept into a doc's file along the years and it haunts me with every doc I see).

Anyway, PCP took the puffiness as an indication that the thyroid situation is not leveled and is now hands-off on that front.

So I guess I have to look for some feedback on Brownstein now...

And Leo, that story of the psychiatrist is funny. When I got out of law school, I didn't want to do family law--custody battles and so on. I didn't want to do things that messed with people's actual LIVES. But, anything that impacts people's money impacts their lives, so...
__________________
Ing

Eat Well and Be Strong!

03/08-06/08: 248 - 224
Then life intervened

Cancer gone, diabetes under control, thyroid replacement on board...back at the drawing board! Here I go again!
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 04-21-2010, 10:12 AM   #152
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Quote:
Originally Posted by melehundele View Post
Hey guys, if you never heard of a doc afraid of treating a patient, I can show you six of 'em!

I went to my BHR doc, and he got me settled in on Armour and prescribed Cortef and prescribed Spironolactone, a diuretic he prefers because of how it interacts with the rest of the hormones in the endocrine system. He is an ob/gyn who treats thyroid people because a lot of his female clients get into thyroid trouble. He is far away from me, and though I would still go there, even he is afraid of my hypoparathyroid issues. So he referred me to the head of internal medicine at the med school (shared this story), an endo, who first freaked out about the Cortef and then spent the rest of the time nattering about needing an idea bracelet and a chair with wheels. That guy determined that my muscle weakness was not a bad enough hypoparathyroid symptom that he needed to treat. In fact, part of the pain and weakness might have been the start of my bilateral frozen shoulders (which an endo maybe should have picked up on, as well, since it is common in diabetics and thyroid peeps...), so whatever.

My PCP is open-minded and will coordinate my care but she doesn't want to prescribe for all of my conditions. She will manage diabetes and that is about it. She said, "If you were driving a Porsche with a high performing but delicate engine, you should not take it to a Ford mechanic. Not that I am a Ford mechanic..." My counter is, if there is only one Porsche mechanic in the country, you may well run out of gas before you get there...

She suggested I see Dr. Brownstein who is in Michigan. I have no feedback on Pam from him. When I checked with her, before I went to see the BHR doc, she had NO prospects for Michigan at all. Everyone on Pam's list was a "don't call." So I am just in a lucky spot.

And I know and you know, it is so hard to get treated for "just" thyroid, but I have failures in at least three of the main organs in the endocrine system (possibly 4 with menopause moving in, and the BHR doc thought I might have a pituitary issue as well). On top of it, I am a lawyer (though I don't as a rule "like" lawyers, don't practice much, and am the least litigious person in the world, somehow that crept into a doc's file along the years and it haunts me with every doc I see).

Anyway, PCP took the puffiness as an indication that the thyroid situation is not leveled and is now hands-off on that front.

So I guess I have to look for some feedback on Brownstein now...

And Leo, that story of the psychiatrist is funny. When I got out of law school, I didn't want to do family law--custody battles and so on. I didn't want to do things that messed with people's actual LIVES. But, anything that impacts people's money impacts their lives, so...

GOOD LORD WOMAN! Who you NEED to see is Doctor Ken Holtorf in Torrence CA.
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2010, 10:21 AM   #153
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Is that who you are seeing, Kisha?
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2010, 11:16 AM   #154
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Quote:
Originally Posted by melehundele View Post
Is that who you are seeing, Kisha?
No I see his colleague Dr. Chris Camilleri at Holorf Medical group up here in the bay area (the office is in Foster City). Dr Ken Holtorf is THE MAN though when it comes to thyroid and EVERYTHING ELSE metabolism/endocrine/ETCETCETC.

You should check out their website just google for Holtorf medical group there are tons of articles and studies and things on all the areas they work in. I'm glad they have a branch up here and I'm happy with my Dr. C but for a complicated case like yours Dr. Holtorf is who i'd want!
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2010, 01:55 PM   #155
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Ing-

Kisha has a great idea. Perhaps you can e-mail Dr. H, telling him about your issues, and maybe he knows someone good in your area. All the good ones usually know each other because there are so few of them.

But make sure you don't tell him that you're a lawyer. No wonder these doctors don't want to treat you
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 06:28 AM   #156
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Thanks for the lead, Kisha! I will check with that office.

I PM'd Pam and she says that she has heard good things about Brownstein, so maybe that will be OK.

And Leo, I DON'T tell anyone that....some doc put it in my file and now, whenever a doc gets my records, it comes in! It doesn't matter that I have worked as a business consultant for over 15 years (I do a little estate planning but mostly business start-ups, as far as legal work, and most of what I do is business plans and marketing). It makes it impossible to get decent health care in this country, I swear....

Scale has teedled down to 255 (gag me!) this morning. Time to get my game face on!

Last edited by melehundele; 04-22-2010 at 06:42 AM..
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 07:44 AM   #157
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Ing-
Oh, I didn't think you'd mention being a lawyer, but is there any way to get that fact removed from your records? It seems to me that the federal privacy rules should forbid that type of information being part of your medical records.

I'm glad you have tips from Pam and Kisha because it's SO important to get the right meds, as I'm sure you know.
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 08:07 AM   #158
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Leo, I have worked so hard, in a hypothyroid stupor, writing corrective letters to be added to me file, you just don't know. One endo totally misrepresented the history I gave him (he is the one who added in the lawyer bit, too...and not the "rolling chair" endo). My objections at that point were to untruths. The fact I have a law degree is not an untruth. It's not a relevant part of my history, really, but writing corrections gets me fired by docs. I never realized what a disaster the lawyer bit would be...
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 08:56 AM   #159
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Oh, I really feel for you. It's difficult enough for us non-lawyers to find a decent doctor, and I can only sympathize with your plight.

Be glad you don't live in NYC because I've heard that if landlords or co-op boards learn that the applicant is a lawyer, they tend to automatically reject that person. To me that's odd because some of the most litigious people I've known weren't lawyers themselves (they just liked to sue:-)
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 10:01 AM   #160
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Ing and Leo... you know how I got a copy of my medical records from my old Endo to take to my new DO? Well you would not believe the CRAP her NP had written in there. She wrote that I "screamed" at her that they weren't giving me enough meds (this when my endo arbitrarily decreased me from 180 to 120 Armour just because the 180 weren't in stock at my pharmacy) anyways I did NOT SCREAM at her. I may have gotten a bit "tone of voice" but seriously I don't scream at people over the phone. Anyways I was sure my new DR would just think I'm crazy screaming at people...
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 11:44 AM   #161
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Kisha-

How awful! Now you have me wondering what's written on my records!!

I didn't remember that bit about her reducing your meds because they weren't "available." What a dork. One wonders how anyone who thinks that way ever got an M.D.

By the way, Kisha, I seem to be going through my own struggles with thyroid--at least I think that's what it is. I have not been losing recently, so I decided to drop JUDDD for a week and do a series of low calorie days--about 650 daily (VLC) to try to jog my system. But I'm not losing at all, and I suspect this only further reduces my T3--i.e., low calorie eating is known to suppress T3, and mine is already only about half of range (when last tested--it may be even lower now).

I'd like to experiment by going UP in calories--e.g., 1400 daily (no JUDDD), but I really worry that I'll just gain because that's what brought me to JUDDD in the first place--anything above 1000 daily and I gained.

Perhaps next week I should just go back to the 'original' JUDDD that I was doing--350 DDs and 1400 UDs, control my UDs, and add veggie carbs.
But I weigh 70 lbs less than when I began JUDDD, so perhaps I should aim for 1200 cal UDs (I don't think I can go lower than that without burning out on this.)

What do you think?
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 12:59 PM   #162
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
ouizoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,614
Gallery: ouizoid
Stats: 225/165/145
WOE: JUDDD
Just a note to say I have been doing the same thing. I am STUCK. I don't think it is my thyroid because that was very recently adjusted. I am not doing DD's right now but def less than 1000 calorie days. still stuck. wow--weird eh?
ouizoid is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 01:16 PM   #163
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Ouis-
Thanks for posting. I don't feel so weird now knowing someone else is going through this, too. I also don't think it's my thyroid because I just realized after I wrote that post to Kisha that when my T3 is low, I am totally exhausted-really and truly fatigued. And I don't have that issue at all. In fact, I have a lot of energy.

I've only been doing this low calorie thing since my uber high Sunday, so it's probably too early to tell (since I did all those carbs, I probably put on 7 0r 8 lbs of water weight, so I may actually have dropped weight this week). I may continue this for a while to see if I can get any movement down on the scale, and, if not, return to JUDDD at 350/1200 and see what happens.

I originally planned to maintain for a while when I got to about 180, so perhaps my body is just insisting on that. Jenny (BloodSugar 101) has written about 'natural' stalls that the body forces when we lost about 20% of our weight. I've lost over 25% since I've been on JUDDD, so this may be what's happening now. Could this also be true for you?

I just bought a bunch of new clothes, so perhaps I'm better off staying here for a few months!

Last edited by Leo41; 04-22-2010 at 01:19 PM..
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:35 PM   #164
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
WELL I won't have any more info really until my appointement with my DO on 6/15 (had to cancell my original 5/5 follow up due to work conflict) BUT... I think I mentioned that he did over $1800 worth of bloodwork on me (aside from my already discovered severe iodine deficincy). He is testing for everything under the sun but specifically RT3 (Reverse T3) have you had this tested Leo? Aparently the T4 in our body (or incoming) is supposed to be converted to T3 which many of us do not convert. Also our body can convert it to REVERSE T3 which actually blocks our thyroid receptors making the incoming T3 much less effective. He suspects that i have this though I haven't got the blood work back yet to confirm. The course of treatment is NO MORE incoming T4 (I no longer take in T4) and Slow Release T3 in relatively high doses which he has me started on.

I can't remember what all he tested but speficially know he is testing adrenals, insulin resistance and for LEPTIN resistance...

I can't wait to find out and I will definately keep you filled in but basically there is something wrong with me in conjunction with the HypO because it is not normal to not lose when low carb JUDDing and also my potentially humongous appetite is a symtom too...

I'll post some article from the Holtrof Medical Group website. This is all way new to me! (Now that I thought I had thyroid all figured out LOL)
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:46 PM   #165
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Fatigued, Depressed, Difficulty Losing Weight? (from Holtorf Medical)

Fatigued, Depressed, Difficulty Losing Weight?
It may be due to your hormones

Since the endocrine system is devised of glands that produce and send hormones to all areas of our body to regulate the essential functions of our body like temperature, reproduction, growth, immunity, and aging, it stands to reason that this should be the hub of vitality, longevity and well being. Many individuals are getting remarkable results from having their hormones optimized. Specialized hormonal testing can be utilized to bring the hormones into optimal ranges. Many people are finding that common problems of fatigue, depression and difficulty losing weight can be completely reversed by physicians that specialize in hormone optimization and age management medicine. Individuals often suffer for years being told that their thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone and adrenals are fine, but these doctors are finding that these levels are actually low and need to be supplemented, often with remarkable results. Standard blood tests only pick up the sickest 2.5% of the population.

Many of the common complaints that rarely get addressed by standard medicine can be remedied by hormone optimization. These include complaints such as, I can’t lose weight like I use to…I don’t get as much results from working out as I used to…What happened to that feeling of well-being…I feel depressed…My body aches… My skin is dry and rough…My joints hurt…I am aging faster than I would like…I sure get tired easily…I feel cold all the time…My libido is shot…My hair is thinning…I don’t feel right…My nails break so easily…I get sick easily…I get frequent headaches… My muscles are sore…I seem to retain water…I’m always constipated…I don’t feel like I used to…I have PMS…I have lost my motivation…I am being treated for depression but I’m still depressed… I’m not getting much relief from my treatment for chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia…I’m being treated for hypothyroidism, but I’m still tired.

Two of the biggest problems are low thyroid for women and low testosterone for men. So many women who are told over and over that their thyroid levels are fine, actually have severely low thyroids levels that are not picked up by the standard TSH and T4 testing, which is the only testing done about 90% of the time. TSH is secreted by the pituitary in the brain, telling the thyroid to secrete T4, which is not the active thyroid hormone. T4 must then be converted in the body to the active thyroid hormone T3. When T4 and T3 levels drop, the TSH should increase indicating hypothyroidism. This is the standard way to diagnose hypothyroidism. There are, however, many things that result in hypothyroidism but are not diagnosed using the standard TSH and T4 testing. This method only reveals a few of the very sickest patients, leaving the majority of patients undiagnosed. Many people, especially women, do not adequately convert T4 to the active T3, resulting in low levels of active thyroid hormone and symptoms of low thyroid with a normal TSH. Also, there is another problem in that T4 cannot only be converted to T3, but it can also be converted to reverse T3, which is inactive and blocks the thyroid receptor. Very few practicing physicians, including endocrinologist, are aware this because it was not taught in medical school, but it contributes to low tissue levels of thyroid in a significant percentage of patients with symptoms. Again, this is missed by standard testing. This is an evolutionary enzyme that increases the T4 to reverse T3 in times of stress. This worked well for our ancestors because it improved survival in times of famine and stress by decreasing the metabolic rate (metabolism).

But in our modern society, reverse T3 works against us causing fatigue, difficulty losing weight and all the other symptoms of hypothyroidism. Reverse T3 can also be increased with dieting (often responsible for the quick weight gain after losing weight) as well as with physical and emotional stress. Low thyroid not only results in undesirable symptoms, but it also increases the risk of heart disease and cancer. Consequently, bringing the thyroid to optimal levels not only makes a person feel better, but is also results in significant health benefits, as well. So many people have been going from doctor to doctor thinking their thyroid is low, only to be told it is fine over and over. When more extensive testing is done so many individuals are relieved to be shown that their thyroid is truly low or sub-optimal and that they can expect to be feeling better soon.

A recent study in the medical journal Archives of Internal Medicine found that women with low normal thyroid (sub-clinical hypothyroidism) are 70% more likely to have arthrosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) and over twice as likely (200% increase) to suffer a heart attack. This low normal thyroid that is going untreated is not only resulting in millions of women unnecessarily feeling fatigued, depressed and being unable to loss weight, along with all the other symptoms of low thyroid, but it is also resulting in heart attacks and deaths that could easily be prevented.

Fatigue Treatment Center | Holtorf Medical Group
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #166
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Well...having never lost enough weight to get all THAT anxious about a stall (without the next crisis popping up, anyway...), my understanding for dealing with such a thing would be to "LIVE" at the stopping point. Up calories, up carbs, or up both, carry on with exercise etc., and see what level of diet your body can deal with and still maintain that "stuck" weight. Then after a period of probably months, start a reducing plan. Maybe that is all wet, but that was the culmination of my reading over the years.

Is that not good? The theory being, I guess, to give your body a chance to say "yep, this is my set point, this is the weight I will maintain," and then ambush it again.

Maybe the thyroid/endo/metab business throws a wrench into even that logic? Or what I would call "logic."
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #167
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Reverse T3 is the Best Measurement of Tissue Thyroid Levels (Holtorf Medical)

Reverse T3 is the Best Measurement of Tissue Thyroid Levels
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2005; 90(12):6403–6409

Thyroid Hormone Concentrations, Disease, Physical Function and Mortality in Elderly Men

Annewieke W. van den Beld, Theo J. Visser, Richard A. Feelders, Diederick E. Grobbee, and Steven W. J. Lamberts Department of Internal Medicine (A.W.v.d.B., T.J.V., R.A.F., S.W.J.L.), Erasmus Medical Center, 3000 CA Rotterdam, The Netherlands; and Julius Center for Patient Oriented Research (D.E.G.), University Medical Center Utrecht, 3508 GA Utrecht, The Netherlands

This study of 403 men investigated the association between TSH, T4, free T4, T3, TBG and reverse T3 (rT3) and parameters of physical functioning. This study demonstrates that TSH and/or T4 levels are poor indicators of tissue thyroid levels and thus, in a large percentage of patients, cannot be used to determine whether a person is euthyroid (normal thyroid levels) at the tissue level. In fact, T4 levels had a negative correlation with tissue thyroid levels (higher T4 levels were associated with decreased peripheral conversion of T4, low T3 levels and high rT3). This study demonstrates that rT3 inversely correlates with physical performance scores and that the T3/rT3 ratio is currently the best indicator of tissue levels of thyroid.

This study showed that increased T4 and RT3 levels and decreased T3 levels are associated with hypothyroidism at the tissue level with diminished physicial functioning and the presence of a catabolic state (breakdown of the body). This study adds to the mounting evidence that giving T4 preparations such as Synthroid and Levoxyl are inadequate for restoring tissue euthyroidism and that a normal TSH cannot be relied upon as as an indication of euthyroidism, as it has a very low sensitivity and specificity for hypothyroidism. This poor sensitivity and specificity is further decreased with the presence of one or more systemic illnesses, including diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, systemic inflammation, asthma, CFS, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, insulin resistance, obesity, chronic stress and almost any other systemic illness.

Low T3 syndrome, with low T3 and high reverse T3, is almost always missed when using standard thyroid function tests, as the T3 level is often in the low normal range and reverse T3 is the high normal range, again making the T3/rT3 ratio the most useful marker for tissue hypothyroidism and as a marker of diminished cellular functioning. The authors of this study conclude, “Subjects with low T3 and high reverse T3 had the lowest PPS [PPS is a scoring system that takes into account normal activities of daily living and is a measure of physical and mental functioning]…Furthermore, subjects with high reverse T3 concentrations had worse physical performance scores and lower grip strength. These high rT3 levels were accompanied by high FT4 levels (within the normal range)…These changes in thyroid hormone concentrations may be explained by a decrease in peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism… Increasing rT3 levels could then represent a catabolic state, eventually proceeding an overt low T3 syndrome.”

This study demonstrates that TSH and T4 levels are poor measures of tissue thyroid levels, TSH and T4 levels should not be relied upon to determine the tissue thyroid levels and that the best estimate of the tissue thyroid effect is rT3 and the T3/rT3 ratio.

Reverse T3 is the Best Measurement of Tissue Thyroid Levels | Holtorf Medical Group
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:53 PM   #168
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Long Term Weight Loss - More Than Will Power? (Ken Holtor Article in the Huffington)

Long Term Weight Loss - More Than Will Power? (Ken Holtor Article in the Huffington Post linked to from About.com Mary Shalom's thyroid section):

Long Term Weight Loss - More Than Will Power?

Obesity has become a major health epidemic and has dramatically increased over the last decades. Studies show that approximately one-third of the U.S. population is classified as obese and over two-thirds are significantly overweight. While the cause is multifactorial, studies are clear that almost all overweight individuals have metabolic and endocrinological dysfunction that is causing or contributing to their inability to lose weight.

It is not simply a problem that individuals are taking in more calories than they are consuming or lack of exercise or willpower, but rather it is a complex vicious-cycle of endocrinological and metabolic dysfunction. Contemporary medicine has failed to address these dysfunctions in overweight individuals and doctors and patients continue to believe that all cases are a matter of willpower and lifestyle. Thus, it is no surprise that obesity is reaching epidemic proportions.

Research is demonstrating that dysregulation of two key hormones may be a cause or major contributor of weight gain or inability to lose weight in the majority of overweight people. The first is leptin and the second is reverse T3. The exciting part is that doctors can now test for the presence of these physiologic barriers to weight loss and prescribe appropriate treatments with potentially dramatic results.

Leptin

The hormone leptin has been found to be a major regulator of body weight and metabolism. The body secretes leptin as weight is gained to signal the brain (specifically the hypo¬thalamus) that there are adequate energy (fat) stores. The hypothalamus should then stimulate metabolic processes that result in weight loss, including a reduction in hunger, an increased satiety with eating, an increase in resting metabolism and an increase in lipolysis (fat breakdown). New research has found that this leptin signaling is dysfunctional in the majority of people who have difficultly losing weight or are unable to lose weight.

The problem is not in the production of leptin, but rather, studies show that the ma¬jority of overweight individuals who are having difficulty losing weight have a leptin resistance, where the leptin is unable to produce its normal effects to stimulate weight loss. This leptin resistance is sensed as starvation, so multiple mechanisms are activated to increase fat stores, rather than burn excess fat stores. Leptin resistance also stimulates the formation of reverse T3, which blocks the effects of thyroid hormone on metabolism (discussed below).

Testing: A leptin level can be ordered by your physician. If greater than 10, it demonstrates there is a degree of leptin resistance contributing to an inability to lose weight. The higher the number the more significant the leptin resistance.

Treatment: There are currently two medications are shown to be able to treat leptin resistance and can result in significant weight loss. One is Symlin and the other is Byetta. These are currently approved for the treatment of diabetes but can be prescribed "off-label" for the treatment of leptin resistance. They are showing significant promise in the non-diabetic population with the ability to produce dramatic weight loss in a large percentage of overweight patients. The amount of weight loss varies according to the study design, but a significant percent of patients are experiencing weight loss, despite little or no change in diet.

The leptin resistance is not permanent and is shown to improve with weight loss so diet and exercise can be beneficial. The "catch-22" is, however, that it is difficult to lose weight with leptin resistance. High carbohydrate diets and in particular high-fructose corn syrup is shown to significantly increase leptin resistance and is a likely mechanism that high fructose corn syrup is associated with obesity, especially in children. Avoidance of high fructose corn syrup and carbohydrates would be recommended for those with high leptin levels.

Reverse T3

It is well known that thyroid hormones regulate metabolism and that low thyroid hormone production (hypothyroidism) causes low metabolism, but it has only recently been understood that thyroid production can be fine but there can a problem of activation of the hormones inside the cells that can be a major cause of low metabolism.

The thyroid gland secretes an inactive thyroid hormone called thyroxine, also known as T4. This is regulated by thyroid stimulation hormone (TSH) produced by the brain (specifically the pituitary). Normally, the inactive T4 is converted inside the cell to the active thyroid hormone called triiodothyronine (also known as T3). Most doctors will check TSH and T4 levels to see if thyroid levels are normal.

The studies are showing that it is not the production of thyroid that is the problem, but rather it is problem inside the cell that the inactive T4 is not converted to T3 but rather to a mirror image of T3 called reverse T3. The reverse T3 has the opposite effect of T3, blocking the effects of T3 and lowering rather than increasing metabolism.

It is an evolutionary fall-back that was useful in times of famine or in hibernating animals to lower metabolism. Studies are showing that stress and dieting (especially yo-yo dieting) can set this hormone into action as well as chronic illness such as diabetes, chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia.

The production of reverse T3 is found to be a major method by which the body 'tries" to regain any lost weight with dieting. As soon as the body senses a reduction in calories, the production of reverse T3 is stimulated to lower metabolism. With chronic dieting or stress, the body often stays in this "starvation mode" with elevated levels of reverse T3 and decreased levels of T3, which is a major reason for the regaining of lost weight with dieting as well being the mechanism behind stress induced weight gain (it is not due to increased cortisol).

Testing: There has been a long held belief by endocrinologists and other physicians that adequate thyroid levels can be determined by testing the TSH and T4 levels. Studies are showing that such standard testing will miss 80% of thyroid dysfunction so most endocrinologists and other doctors will tell their patients that their thyroid is fine based on this usual testing. The doctors must run a free T3/reverse T3 ratio. Generally, a healthy person will have a ratio greater than 2 so a person with a ratio less than 2 should also be considered a candidate for thyroid supplementation. Many endocrinologist and physicians are not yet aware of the significance or ability to run this ratio so it may take some searching.

Treatment: The standard treatment of hypothyroidism involves the supplementation with T4, including Synthroid and Levoxyl. These are not effective to remedy such a situation because the problem is not the amount of T4 but rather the excess conversion of T4 to reverse T3, blocking effects of the active T3. One must bypass the abnormality by supplementing with physiologic doses of T3, not T4 (preferably timed released T3). It is not appropriate to give thyroid hormone for weight loss, but rather to correct an abnormality diagnosed by appropriate blood tests.

In summary, emerging evidence demonstrates that a significant number of overweight patients have a metabolic problem rather than a problem of willpower or lifestyle. Identification and correction of these metabolic abnormalities, including leptin resistance and cellular thyroid dysfunction, can result in dramatic long term successful weight loss.
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 02:55 PM   #169
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Well...having never lost enough weight to get all THAT anxious about a stall (without the next crisis popping up, anyway...), my understanding for dealing with such a thing would be to "LIVE" at the stopping point. Up calories, up carbs, or up both, carry on with exercise etc., and see what level of diet your body can deal with and still maintain that "stuck" weight. Then after a period of probably months, start a reducing plan. Maybe that is all wet, but that was the culmination of my reading over the years.

Is that not good? The theory being, I guess, to give your body a chance to say "yep, this is my set point, this is the weight I will maintain," and then ambush it again.

Maybe the thyroid/endo/metab business throws a wrench into even that logic? Or what I would call "logic."
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 04:33 PM   #170
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Kisha-
Thanks for those articles! I've downloaded them, and I'm going to send them to my endocrinologist before my next blood tests. Neither of the two endos I saw (both of whom tested T4 and T3 regularly) ever tested reverse
T3. My endo DID say that if I needed more Cytomel, he could reduce my T4 (Levoxyl) to balance it. But I want to ask him about testing for rT3 because that could be a problem. The "solution" might be to lower my T4 and increase my Cytomel--which would make me happy.

However, I don't think this is the problem because, as I told Ouis, if the problem was low T3, I'd be much more fatigued than I am, since I've been through that before when I first needed Cytomel, and I know what it feels like.

Ing-
You're not all wet at all! What you suggest is exactly what Jenny wrote in her report on the "20% stall." She reported that what's best in that situation is to just maintain for a few months and then lower calories again. If I can't lose in the next few weeks, that's what I plan to do. I'll stay on JUDDD but raise my DD calories to about 600-800. (That will seem so strange:-)
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 04:40 PM   #171
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
Kisha-
Thanks for those articles! I've downloaded them, and I'm going to send them to my endocrinologist before my next blood tests. Neither of the two endos I saw (both of whom tested T4 and T3 regularly) ever tested reverse
T3. My endo DID say that if I needed more Cytomel, he could reduce my T4 (Levoxyl) to balance it. But I want to ask him about testing for rT3 because that could be a problem. The "solution" might be to lower my T4 and increase my Cytomel--which would make me happy.

However, I don't think this is the problem because, as I told Ouis, if the problem was low T3, I'd be much more fatigued than I am, since I've been through that before when I first needed Cytomel, and I know what it feels like.

Ing-
You're not all wet at all! What you suggest is exactly what Jenny wrote in her report on the "20% stall." She reported that what's best in that situation is to just maintain for a few months and then lower calories again. If I can't lose in the next few weeks, that's what I plan to do. I'll stay on JUDDD but raise my DD calories to about 600-800. (That will seem so strange:-)

I get what you're saying Leo about being tired... BUT perhaps that is just when your T3 is REALLY low. I'd bet the lack of weight loss comes before you hit the fatigue point... just a though.

Also you're getting pretty tiny there woman! I don't remember how tall you are but aren't you closing in on the 170's?
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 04:41 PM   #172
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Interesting on the RT3 info. Some docs (real ones, not stuck in the mud endo types ) dispute the existence/significance of RT3. My BHR doc tested for it and my levels were not significant. I am interested to see what you guys find out.

And oh, hey, I have been reading the Brownstein book about iodine that my PCP lent to me yesterday. Fascinating. My BHR doc said to do the Lugol's solution transdermal trick, but I kind of blew it off because I didn't think I needed it (since I don't need iodine to make any thyroid hormone, since I don't have a thyroid hormone-maker anymore. But apparently, I DO need it because your body uses raw iodine all over. And levels are terribly low nationally, particularly in my part of the midwest. AND, in the book, he points to the fact that people on Armour who are doing ok but not great find a synergistic effect between Armour and supplemental iodine, and feel SO much better once they up the iodine. So I am now just a paintin' my leg....

Last edited by melehundele; 04-22-2010 at 04:45 PM..
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 04:44 PM   #173
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
REGARDING RT3... from what I can figure out you don't just read the test result level of the RT3. Instead a computation must be done comparing the level of T3 (cannot find if this is TOTAL or FREE) to the level of RT3. If the ratio is greater than 10 to 1 Wilson's Syndrom Reverse T3 syndrome is indicated.

Last edited by Ilpirata; 04-22-2010 at 05:12 PM..
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 04:55 PM   #174
GME
Way too much time on my hands!
 
GME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA Coast
Posts: 10,105
Gallery: GME
Stats: 250/166/175 Trying again...223/199/146 5'7
WOE: JUDDD/LC/Gluten & Dairy Free
Start Date: April 2000 (the first time)
The reverse T3 issue is a big chunk of what I have. When I went back after my second set of labs I already felt about 1000% better, but my T3 hadn't gone up at all. My RT3 was way down though.

Not losing for me definately came before the other symptoms. For probably two years I would follow a pattern of losing 10-15 lbs and then stalling. I would change things up and lose another 10-15 and stall. I think it was the RT3 cranking up to keep me from losing. It wasn't until this past winter that I got all the other symptoms.
__________________
Gina

7/27/14- Wharf to Wharf (6 miles)- I won! 9/14/14- Title 9K- I won! 11/9/14- Surfer's Path 10K- I won! 12/7/14- Jinglebell Rock 5K- I won!
2/7/15 - Together Love Run 5K, 3/22/15- She is Beautiful 10K, 4/12/15- Santa Cruz Half Marathon

*My definition of win: I didn't quit, didn't throw up, and they didn't close the course on me.
GME is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 05:14 PM   #175
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Quote:
Originally Posted by GME View Post
The reverse T3 issue is a big chunk of what I have. When I went back after my second set of labs I already felt about 1000% better, but my T3 hadn't gone up at all. My RT3 was way down though.

Not losing for me definately came before the other symptoms. For probably two years I would follow a pattern of losing 10-15 lbs and then stalling. I would change things up and lose another 10-15 and stall. I think it was the RT3 cranking up to keep me from losing. It wasn't until this past winter that I got all the other symptoms.
Gina do you mind me asking where your RT3 came in? Mine is in range midway of range (just got results today)

21 (11-32)

I do see from these results that I am severely Vitamin D Defficient which I know has bad weight/fatigue symptoms and also severely iodine defficient but I don't really know what the rest of the results mean.
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2010, 07:53 PM   #176
GME
Way too much time on my hands!
 
GME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA Coast
Posts: 10,105
Gallery: GME
Stats: 250/166/175 Trying again...223/199/146 5'7
WOE: JUDDD/LC/Gluten & Dairy Free
Start Date: April 2000 (the first time)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilpirata View Post
Gina do you mind me asking where your RT3 came in? Mine is in range midway of range (just got results today)

21 (11-32)

I do see from these results that I am severely Vitamin D Defficient which I know has bad weight/fatigue symptoms and also severely iodine defficient but I don't really know what the rest of the results mean.
My T3 went from 25 to 5 (11-32). He said that was high. A lot of stuff was at the outer edges of range and he thought they were causing problems.

My Vit D was 34 (20-100) after two weeks of 5000 mgs (mcgs?) a day for 2 weeks.
GME is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 03:21 AM   #177
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Kisha-
I suspect you may be right about stalling before the fatigue with low T3. The time that I was totally wiped out, my T3 was below the lab range--and that's when I suddenly gained 10 lbs in 2 weeks. It makes sense that with a stall from low T3 I might not have the fatigue.

I plan to ask my endo about rT3 because that may be an issue, although, as Ing mentioned, it may be controversial. Both my former endo and this one are quite competent (NOT TSH worshippers) and neither tested for rT3.

I also looked over my lab results for the past 4 years, and except for that time when my T3 tanked, it's always been only about half of the lab range--not higher as Pam recommends. Yet I was losing steadily (if slowly), so that may be an acceptable level for me. Who knows?

I'm not yet "small," but I look OK because I carry most of my weight in my thighs (a genetic thing). I'm only 5'5", but I look and feel great at 160 or so (which I'm guessing because it's so long since I've been that low). The thing is that at 183 right now, I have at least 20 lbs of loose skin (not a problem unless I'm naked:-) ,so I'm probably not far from an "ideal" weight range for me.
Ing-
I've been meaning to get some Tincture of Iodine to test myself, and I plan to do that today. What I read is that if the spot disappears within one hour, your iodine level is fine, but if it takes up to 4 hours, then you're deficient. Is that what you know or am I off?

Gina-
When my D3 was in the 'low sufficient range,' my endo didn't suggest anything, but I started supplementing on my own with 4000 mg a day, and on the last test I asked my endo to do it was up into "sufficient." I still supplement daily. As I told Ing (above), I plan to test my iodine level now.
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 08:17 AM   #178
Senior LCF Member
 
melehundele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 559
Gallery: melehundele
Stats: 250/?/150
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: 8/25/2009
Morning, Ladies!

Remind me again why we don't weigh every day

My BHR doc had given me Lugol's solution, which is a strong solution of iodine and iodide in water. He said to paint a 2 inch square on my leg once a day as a transdermal supplement. My BHR doc was big on transdermal and injected supplements, particularly for diabetics where digestive absorption may be impaired. In the book I am reading, Brownstein talks about supplementing with Lugol's tablets (brand Iodoral). Apparently, appropriate supplementation requires the correct mix of iodine and iodide. You won't get that if you use tincture, so don't try to supplement with it; I don't know about just testing with it.

Brownstein said you can have 10,000 times the RDA of iodine and not have it be harmful, and that iodine deficiency is a worldwide problem. Blood tests and simple urine tests are not accurate he says. He does an iodine loading test (with 50 mg of iodine in Lugol's tablets) to find out how deficient people are. In a first study of his patients, all of whom were already following holistic practices and eating organic and so on, of 24 patients only 2 had normal iodine levels.

The theory for why women have more thyroid issues is that women have more profound iodine deficiency. Iodine is stored in the thyroid (as iodine) and almost as much is stored in the breast tissue (as iodide). The ovaries also have a concentration. In men, there is some accumulation in breast tissue, the prostate, and the testes, but by and large women have more iodine-hungry glandular volume.

I almost think, given the safety margin of iodine supplementation and the high rate of deficiency, one could pretty well assume supplementation was necessary. If it's not necessary, at least it probably won't cause a problem.

Last edited by melehundele; 04-23-2010 at 08:21 AM..
melehundele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 10:10 AM   #179
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
Well I'm severely Iodine Deficient. My score was 18 with good range 120
I'm also what looks like VERY Vitamin D Defiicient: 12(LOW) range: 20-100

My RT3 is 21 which is lower than Gina's but I suspect doc will say is high.

I also came baci LOW on a hormone I've never heard of (appears to be a precursor of progestorine and DHEA) called Pregenolone: 5(LOW) range: 7-188

The cortisol results and leptin results I don't know how to read... those are the ones that jumped out/were flagged by the lab as off. Oh, also some things in the matabolic panel came flagged low.

Anyways I'm waiting til my appt. with him to get this all interpreted I suspect I'll be doing D Supplements and Iodine supplemention (probably the iodoral Ing mentioned) and who knows what else!
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 11:49 AM   #180
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,758
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
I always get nervous when some doctor 'discovers' a universal deficiency and writes a book about it. Is it serious--or is it something that's 'normal' for people.

Brownstein seems to be making a career of alerting everyone to iodine deficiency, but Pam reports that those with Hashimoto's (me) should never take supplemental iodine.

I want to try that test I heard about only because I have used iodized salt almost all of my life--and I like a lot of salt--so if I'm deficient, then how does one get iodine? Surely except for people with medical issues, we shouldn't have to supplement for every substance the body needs?

I'm just thinking aloud, folks. I'm not a big fan of conventional medicine, but I also tend to be skeptical of alternative healers as well--for different reasons.
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:16 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.