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Old 04-05-2010, 10:10 AM   #31
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They have some kind of discount labs deal worked out with Quest. Once you find out what tests he orders you could check prices with HealthCheck too. They seem to be pretty reasonable.

I didn't do the 4x per day test for adrenals. It was part of my blood tests.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:04 AM   #32
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They have some kind of discount labs deal worked out with Quest. Once you find out what tests he orders you could check prices with HealthCheck too. They seem to be pretty reasonable.

I didn't do the 4x per day test for adrenals. It was part of my blood tests.
I'm just suspecting the adrenals cuz I'm so exhausted... my eyes are real sensitive to light too.. don't know. I AM very optimisted that this DR. Will figure it out
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:01 PM   #33
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Kisha-

The exhaustion could also be low T3--which would also be why you're having difficulty with weight.

But you'll know soon enough. Good luck on Wednesday!
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:08 PM   #34
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Kisha-

The exhaustion could also be low T3--which would also be why you're having difficulty with weight.

But you'll know soon enough. Good luck on Wednesday!
Right now my FreeT3 is 3 (2.0-4.4)
Half of range is 3.6 so I'm well under half on that too.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:45 AM   #35
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Bad UD evening last night--I need to figure out how this happens--but here are the things I think are relevant--there were both acute and chronic factors--the acute factors were undereating before dinner--which was late--too late--and then there was a ravenous feeling that triggered one of my "fat binges"--I end up eating very compulsively--LC foods--but trying to achieve some level of satiation that feels just out of reach.

I think undereating and eating too late and the wrong foods triggered the hunger--but I think there is a more long-term factor as well--I think I started losing weight again once I got my UD's under control--people are commenting on it right and left--and I think every time I start losing, whether it is a "leptin reset" which is a biological attempt at homeostasis--or whether it is psychological resistance, I get primed for some kind of binge.

So--DD today, hoooray. And I need to plan some different foods for my UD's. Something more nourishing, and maybe higher calorie. I am going to try and play around with this and as always keep track of my patterns. I tend to operate in a 3-4 day cycle (if I undereat for 3-4 days, I lose weight, but I also develop a desire to binge 3-4 days later).

Just my musings about my process here--thanks for listening.

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Old 04-06-2010, 07:47 AM   #36
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Bad UD evening last night--I need to figure out how this happens--but here are the things I think are relevant--there were both acute and chronic factors--the acute factors were undereating before dinner--which was late--too late--and then there was a ravenous feeling that triggered one of my "fat binges"--I end up eating very compulsively--LC foods--but trying to achieve some level of satiation that feels just out of reach.
I think undereating and eating too late and the wrong foods triggered the hunger--but I think there is a more long-term factor as well--I think I started losing weight again once I got my UD's under control--people are commenting on it right and left--and I think every time I start losing, whether it is a "leptin reset" which is a biological attempt at homeostasis--or whether it is psychological resistance, I get primed for some kind of binge.

So--DD today, hoooray. And I need to plan some different foods for my UD's. Something more nourishing, and maybe higher calorie. I am going to try and play around with this and as always keep track of my patterns. I tend to operate in a 3-4 day cycle (if I undereat for 3-4 days, I lose weight, but I also develop a desire to binge 3-4 days later).

Just my musings about my process here--thanks for listening.

Ouis
Very interesting insights Ouis. I get that feeling too, trying to feel satisfied, but it just doesn't come, so I try something else, still doesn't come. It is funny because I don't see much of a pattern when it hits.

I have noticed if I get too hungry while I am out, it can be a disaster to come home. I feel like I have to inhale everything that isn't nailed down. I thought about it a long time one day and I think it stems from my childhood.

I was a "fat girl" at school (I was a chubby little kid and was 5'7" and wore a size 12 in high school). I felt like I couldn't eat much in front of other kids so I would pick at my school lunch and that was it. By the time I got off the bus and walked home, I can remember having that weak, shaky, low blood sugar feeling. Coming into the house I relaxed, felt safe and calm and could finally EAT..... I could finally feel good.

I still feel like that sometimes, mostly after a stressful day. I'm finally home, its over, I can relax.... and eat. I keep snacks in my desk at work and in the car so I can at least NOT be too hungry when I get home from that kind of a day.

Enough true confessions... I have very good news to share today. After 10 long months (June 21, 2009 to be exact) I have finally lost all my thyroid-tank weight and ventured one half pound into VFT this morning! 183.2

Like Ouis said, the key for me seems to be the controlled UD. I'm trying not to think of them as UDs at all really. I'm trying to think of the as regular days (RDs I guess, like we need another acronym ). I'm not too much of a calorie-tracker, but I eat healthy LC food until I'm satisfied. I'm on a MWF DD schedule and I have been thinking of ONE weekend day as an UD. So far, so good.

Have a great day everyone!
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:06 AM   #37
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Gina-
Good news on the loss I like your idea of RD instead of UD because I think that names affect us, and that may be the reason folks have difficulty keeping their "UP" days under control. Like you, I tend to think of mine as a 'normal' day--compared to my DDs.

Ouis-
Why is it that we can tolerate hunger on a DD but think of it as a reason to eat on an UD? Right now (an RD--new acronym I'm adopting), I am totally satiated from a high-fat breakfast and after workout snack, yet it's an effort not to do more snacking. Given the fact that I was hungry all day yesterday but didn't go over 400 cals, it seems to me that should I experience hunger today, when I know I've reached my calorie limit, I should disregard it as I would if it were a DD.

This is a complicated way of saying that personally if I go overboard on an RD, it's purely psychological. Yes, my body may be 'pushing' me to gain by creating a feeling of hunger when I know intellectually that I've had enough, but I should know that I don't have to give in to that 'feeling' because I don't give in to it on DDs.

It's tough because if we begin to feel "deprived" on our RDs, we're bound to go off the rails completely. My goal is to avoid that sense of deprivation with the variety of food rather than the quantity.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:56 AM   #38
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GINA!!! WOW!! I'm sooooo happy for you. Way to persevere.

I had bad day yesterday... well not DISASTER but I sort of lost it in the break room at work and ate a big slice of fruitcake of all the disgusting items. Normally this sets off a huge binge for me that ends with fast food and haagen daas. I know! awful. Somehow yesterday I got it back together though (SO HARD) and didn't go off the binge deep end just finishing up my day low carb (not low cal unfortunately). I actually tracked the damage including the cake...

Came in at 2000 calories and 72 carbs. Um can I just call that an UP DAY? CAN I?

Back on track today... more medium day and very low carb. I don't feel out of control which is good... doctor appointment TOMORROW MORNING AND I CANNOT FREAKING WAIT!!!
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:34 AM   #39
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Hey Kisha, the good news is that you didn't let it escalate into a full-fledged binge. I know that experience only too well, and it's really an accomplishment to stop. You should chalk that up as an achievement. Personally, I'd go with Ben &Jerry rather than Hagaan Daz, but that's just me

Good luck tomorrow!
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:35 AM   #40
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Hey Kisha, the good news is that you didn't let it escalate into a full-fledged binge. I know that experience only too well, and it's really an accomplishment to stop. You should chalk that up as an achievement. Personally, I'd go with Ben &Jerry rather than Hagaan Daz, but that's just me

Good luck tomorrow!
I apologize to ANYONE ON A DOWN DAY IN ADVANCE...













But Leo, you only prefer Ben and Jerry's because you don't know that Haagen Daas now has a flavor called CARAMEL CONE! *swoon*
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:34 PM   #41
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Hey guys!

I am here and JUDDDing away. I have been doing it by the book and feeling pretty good and in control. It really helped to lower my carbs as far as my appetite is concerned. Still hungry of course but not out of control.

Still hovering around the same weight, but I also added in exercise. I might be retaining water from that. I am going to not concentrate so hard on the scale and just do what I need to do. It will happen.

Kisha - Good luck at your appointment. PLEASE let us know how it goes!

I love ice cream, usually homemade. I can go crazy with it and it really upsets my stomach so it is pretty limited. Maybe, 4th of July.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:05 PM   #42
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Kisha-
You are correct; I did not know about the new flavor. I try to avoid even glancing at the ice cream when I'm in the supermarket because it's perhaps the one thing that can still tempt me.

By the way, someone on the primal board wrote about 'primal ice cream.' It's freezing bananas and then whipping them up in the blender. They swear it gets a consistency similar to ice cream. Alas, I don't eat fruit either, but I'd try that before going to the dark side.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:13 PM   #43
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Kisha-
You are correct; I did not know about the new flavor. I try to avoid even glancing at the ice cream when I'm in the supermarket because it's perhaps the one thing that can still tempt me.

By the way, someone on the primal board wrote about 'primal ice cream.' It's freezing bananas and then whipping them up in the blender. They swear it gets a consistency similar to ice cream. Alas, I don't eat fruit either, but I'd try that before going to the dark side.

well honestly though... bananas are da debil too! At least on our WOE... I guess cuz they're natural they're better than store bought ice cream but they're just nature's little SUGAR BOMBS.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:24 PM   #44
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I used to make that banana ice cream for my kids when they were little! It was awesome. indistinguishable from ice cream

I make an awesome protein ice cream in my icecream maker--on a hot summer day, it is a wonderful, filling meal--Protein powder, light coconut milk, pureed fruit or flavourings of your choice--don't try and keep it in the freezer, cause it will freeze solid, but if you don't mind eating it all as soon as you make it, it is wonderful! I think Soobee has some recipes on LCF that are both LC and lowfat/lowcal!
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:28 PM   #45
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I used to make that banana ice cream for my kids when they were little! It was awesome. indistinguishable from ice cream

I make an awesome protein ice cream in my icecream maker--on a hot summer day, it is a wonderful, filling meal--Protein powder, light coconut milk, pureed fruit or flavourings of your choice--don't try and keep it in the freezer, cause it will freeze solid, but if you don't mind eating it all as soon as you make it, it is wonderful! I think Soobee has some recipes on LCF that are both LC and lowfat/lowcal!
yeah I know theres a high fat recipe on here somewhere that you make in a ziplock bag...

I'm afraid for me it isn't *really* about ice cream though. When it happens its just like YES I'm DOING THIS... a legal substitute wouldn't stop me. I seriously completely lose it.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:44 AM   #46
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I'm like you, Kisha. I don't do any "legal" substitutes because I think they just keep the craving alive, and it's too easy for me to go right to the 'illegal' ones.

Actually, I'm really comfortable eating primal because I've always loved meat, fish, eggs cooked simply. They way this WOE makes me feel is so incredible that I have no desire to eat off plan.

By the way, Dr. Michael Eades had an interesting blog that's on the Protein Power website about eating in restaurants. His point is that you're probably getting all kinds of 'bad things' (oils, additives, etc.) even in high-end places, and the only time you can be sure of your food is when you're cooking it.

I'm finding recently that although I love going out to eat with friends because of the social aspect, I really prefer eating what I prepare.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:18 AM   #47
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I read the Eades post Leo yesterday--pretty scary--all my restaurant meals! DH and I are part of a group that travels every other month or so--so of course I am eating out a LOT. LC to be sure, but all those naughty O6 oils

I guess I will start asking for my steaks to be cooked in butter. OY. Yet another dining request--DH will be oh so pleased with me.

All fer health tho--


UD today. Gonna do eggs and butter all day and tame my silly appetite. wish me luck. Going to my niece's wedding in Portland over the weekend, and would like to be in strong ketosis--cause there is going to be a LOT of restaurant eatin'!

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Old 04-07-2010, 07:46 AM   #48
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Boy, isn't that the truth about retaurant meals? Even good ones. We hardly go out anymore at all, maybe once a month we'll plan a meal out. That is saying a lot for us too- it used to be if we were out anywhere near a meal time it was "Let's grab ____ on the way home." Now if we are going to be out we eat before we go, and if it is going to be more than a couple hours I pack a cooler with cheese sticks, nuts, boiled eggs, fruit for the kids, etc.

We were traveling for Easter and ate at Logan's Roadhouse Saturday night. I had a really good dinner off their "value menu"- two pork chops, broccoli and green salad. I still got swelling in my hands. Salt or MSG in the spices or dressing probably.

DD for me today. I have a lot to do, but most of it is at home. It is a nice day, I'll get outside if need be. Since time changed, I love a walk after dinner. It keeps me from eating too much and really seems to curb the evening munchies.

Have a great day everyone!
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:51 AM   #49
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Today's a DD, but yesterday was just too 'up.' All primal, but a lot of food--I was about 1800-1900 cal, but I try to stay at 1400.

Today I'm having sardines mashed up with chopped celery and a little mayo for 200 cal. My fish oil supplements add another 70 cal, and I plan to make two psyllium 'shakes' (with cold coffee and a little cocoa powder) for an additional 80 cal.

I have no appetite after all that food yesterday, so I think this will work.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:38 PM   #50
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THE DOCTOR WAS AMAZING.
i am "very sick" and "very undertreated"

I will post long post tomorrow a.m. but I am elated.
Going for 800$ worth of blood tests in the morning I'll post after 10am pacific.

I AM SO HAPPY!
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:44 PM   #51
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THE DOCTOR WAS AMAZING.
i am "very sick" and "very undertreated"

I will post long post tomorrow a.m. but I am elated.
Going for 800$ worth of blood tests in the morning I'll post after 10am pacific.

I AM SO HAPPY!
I can't believe how happy I am that you are "very sick" but well, you get it.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:45 AM   #52
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I'm so happy that you've found this doctor, Kisha, and that you'll finally be treated well

You've worked too hard to lose weight to be sabotaged by your hormones as you've been for months now.

It's so great that you got in a little earlier than scheduled so that you can start getting well sooner.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:35 AM   #53
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Woot Woot Kisha! You are in good hands, finally! I am so happy for you!

Did a bit of an "eggfest" yesterday--a la Jimmy Moore. Eggs and pasteured butter all day and nothing else. Wow--Eggs and butter make ya not wanta eat! I liked that! I can't see doing it for a month like Jimmy Moore, but I can definitely see doing some egg/meat days, with more of an emphasis on the eggs.

DD today, and I will do the eggy-thang for dinner, and then do another eggfest tomorrow. We are flying up to Portland tomorrow night for the wedding, so this weekend will likely be Atkinsy, but that is fine.

Leo--I am amazed that you can do the psyllium shakes in the evening and not get hungry--evening is when I crave protein. Just shows to go ya how very different everyone's appetites are--

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Old 04-08-2010, 07:27 AM   #54
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Ouis-
I usually pack all my protein into the morning, so I am fairly satisfied for the rest of the day. On UDs if I eat dinner, I might spread out my protein more, but breakfast is usually major protein, and I have another protein snack after I work out [at 6 am] on UDs, so I usually have all my protein by 10 am.

But yesterday, I didn't have the shakes. I wanted food (i.e., chewing action), so I made a psyllium 'pancake' instead with just egg whites and psyllium and a dash of unsweetened cocoa. It goes nicely with my hot tea and is low calorie enough (100) for a DD.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:28 AM   #55
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DOCTOR - FULL REPORT

Not sure where to start here... I am just over the moon happy.

My thyroid is not treated properly and I am very sick. He is switching me to T3 only protocol and is DOUBLING the amount of T3 that i was getting. I am getting it through a compounding pharmacy that makes it slow release. I was on about 35mcg of T3 he ordered me 75mcg and then in one week that will up to 87mcg. he says that the only purpose of T4 is to convert to T3 but that sometimes it is converted to ReverseT3 which blocks the receptors and that is why he is not giving me the T4 (he is open to adding later he will treat on symptoms not just bloodtests)

He says Thyroid tests are unreliable and how I have been feeling and gaining weight is not normal.

There is definately something else wrong with me also besides just the Hypo. He is testing for SO MANY THINGS. I went this morning for $1800 worth of bloodwork though with his special discount negotiated with the lab I paid $750. Looking for insulin resistance, leptin resistance, reverse T3 (he suspects RT3 syndrome) Seratonin levels cortisol (adrenal function) and a ton of other stuff that I can't recall. they took fifteen vials of blood!

O and get this. I know in the thyroid forum pam is always saying that iodine deficient hypothyroidism no longer exists. However, Iodine IS NEEDED for the thryod to function. My thyroid is swollen (generous/inlarged is the term my old endo used) this is a well known reaction to lack of iodine. Iodine deficient goiter basically though my neck looks "almost" normal.

So his tech did a urinalysis on me to test my iodine levels as I was leaving the office. We will discuss EVERYTHING on my follow up appointment 5/5 he will need the bloodwork to get a comprehensive picture. BUT, with a normal range of 120 my Iodine level is EIGHTEEN. I googled and anything under 20 is "severe deficiency" so there's one thing that he's already found that my old doctor didn't even test for!

So thats it so far waiting for my newe greatly increased meds to arrive and hope to be feeling better soon!

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Old 04-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #56
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Hi Kisha-

This sounds great, and you must be thrilled to be in such good hands. With your T3 raised, you should be feeling better soon, even if you need other meds eventually.

But now I'm concerned! My primary does periodic blood tests AND urine, too. But I checked my file, and the 'standard' testing of urine doesn't test for level of iodine. Why not? They test for all kinds of other things, and if iodine is important, why aren't they testing for it?

I think I need to raise this issue at my next appointment. I have a significant goiter, and I've always assumed it was from my Hashimoto's (the nodules are too small to be so visible), but perhaps it's iodine deficiency.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #57
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Hi Kisha-

This sounds great, and you must be thrilled to be in such good hands. With your T3 raised, you should be feeling better soon, even if you need other meds eventually.

But now I'm concerned! My primary does periodic blood tests AND urine, too. But I checked my file, and the 'standard' testing of urine doesn't test for level of iodine. Why not? They test for all kinds of other things, and if iodine is important, why aren't they testing for it?

I think I need to raise this issue at my next appointment. I have a significant goiter, and I've always assumed it was from my Hashimoto's (the nodules are too small to be so visible), but perhaps it's iodine deficiency.
We used to have these encyclopedia's at my house. They were country encyclopedias with information about different countries. In the one one india there was a picture of a woman with an enormous goiter and I read about iodine deficient goiter in there. I think its sort of common knowlege even among the non thyroid sufferers that iodine is linked to goiter isn't it? i mean I knew that years ago...

I'd definately want to get my iodine level tested and i'm sure your endo will be happy to do it for you.

I'll have information after 5/5 as to how we will be treating my deficiency. its all so linked together something else wrong may be CAUSING it because I certainly do intake plenty of salt!
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:22 PM   #58
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DUDE! Look at my avatar see you can even see my swollen thyroid in that picture!
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:30 PM   #59
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Hey Kisha-

I just found out (online) how to test myself for lack of iodine. It won't produce numbers, but it will tell me whether or not I have adequate iodine. I plan to do it soon. If I'm deficient, I plan to contact my endo right away.

Like you, I use plenty (too much!) of salt, and I've always used iodized salt. And I also eat a lot of fish that's rich in iodine. I wonder whether sometimes the body doesn't absorb it properly.

In any case, wouldn't it be interesting if our hypo was simply iodine deficiency?

According to what I read online, iodine deficiency can actually cause Hashimoto's.

Also interesting (and sad) is that when my thyroid swelled about 10 years ago, my primary never considered testing iodine level. I guess they all learned in medical school that it's no longer a problem in this country.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:50 PM   #60
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Posts: 9,911
Gallery: GME
Stats: 250/166/175 Trying again...223/206/146 5'7
WOE: JUDDD/Gluten & Dairy Free
Start Date: April 2000 (the first time)
I have low iodine too. If I remember right mine was about 20. I read up on it when I got home and read that salt began to be iodized to treat nation-wide deficiencies but very few brands are iodized anymore. The reason they say we have so many deficiencies is that minerals have been depleted from the soil (so they aren't being picked up by crops) and aren't being replaced with modern fertilizers. Levels can vary from region to region and there is an area of the Midwest called "The Goiter Belt" because they are so prevelent.

A while later I was listening to NPR early one morning and heard a talk by the author of Dead Doctors Don't Lie and he believes it is because we don't use wood ash to fertilize our gardens. He blames mineral deficiencies for most of the diseases of modern man.
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