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Old 03-20-2010, 07:23 AM   #151
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I am up a pound or two as well Leo, and I have also come to the conclusion that i have been eating too much and need to really track and contain my UD's AND I went back and looked at my journals (I have been recording my food daily for the last six years) and guess what?--mid march--to april I always have this same epiphany! I suspect my eating "gears up" at the end of winter for some reason--boredom, frustration, tired of being cold, tired of the post-xmas abstinence, something, and then I get a grip again right around this time!!!!!!!! And my body fights me for every pound by getting uber hungry!

Sometimes I think these eating patterns are so deeply ingrained that they feel like I am eating due to the impulse of the day, the party I went to this week, the feeding response that compensates for yesterdays deprivation--and then I see that there are additional, deeper, long term patterns!!!! Not much really to be done about those! All I can respond to is what is on the surface. And so I am going to track and cut back.

I am actually going to do a carbup today to see if it gets something going--and then I am going to do a DD tomorrow, and a meticulously conservative UD on Monday. I expect that the next couple of UD's will be hard (because of the carbs today and because of my determination to keep them contained).

Leo--these pounds WILL come off!! We will make them!!!!!!! And you should be congratulated for how far you have come. I went back to my weight records and realized that I have really not lost anything for about 3.5 weeks. Because I have been EATING TOO MUCH!!!

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Old 03-20-2010, 07:35 AM   #152
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Ouis-

I think our motto has to be "eternal vigilance is the price of weight loss" because, as I commented to Kisha, it's amazing how quickly those calories add up. When I plan my UDs, I'm always startled by how little food it takes to get me to 1400 cal! So deciding to "eat to satisfaction" on UDs, is not something I should ever do. And I have to keep reminding myself of that.

I think it's great that you have that long-term food journal because it really helps to see 'patterns.' It's so easy to get 'comfortable' losing and then let the calories creep (or gallop) up until we gain
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:51 AM   #153
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Hi everyone. Interesting comments about eating fat, eating to satisfaction, etc.
I am the same as all of you. I never had the complete appetite suppression that many
speak of in the main lobby. I also think Dr. Johnson's notion of eating to satisfaction is not realistic and shows that he really does not have much experience with those who have struggled with losing a lot of weight. For many of us, it is like you said Leo, the
satiety mechanism just does not work.
I had a great down day thurs (400 cal and a spinning class!), ate a lot yesterday with a nice dinner out, etc, and am looking forward to having a good down day today.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:06 AM   #154
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Snaggle--thank you for saying that--I am definitely feeling like it would be a very different thing if any of these food an diet gurus were menopausal women!

I think Mary Eades gets it--and protein power is a great program--I stay far away from all these arguments on the Main Lobby--I know what works for me. I do get derailed sometimes by trying something new, and sometimes there is a wonderful tool to add to my toolbag (JUDDD for example or switching fats from O6 to O3 (thank you Primal Blueprint) or lowcarb (bless you Dr Atkins) EVEN (dare I say it) ******* for showing me the power of cutting fat and carbs at the same time (Tho I would NEVER do her program again, all me hair started to fall out)--but at the end of the day, I need to come back to what works for me--and that is JUDDD with low carbs, lower fat, moderate calories--I go a little higher on my DDs than some of you, but I work out hard 6 days a week--and I need to stay a bit lower on my UD's--in Leo Land--around 1500 cals. I have had a few carbups along the way, and I am thinking that helps too.

You guys are so patient with all the processing I have to do!!!!

love this group

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Old 03-20-2010, 03:47 PM   #155
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Great minds think alike--I, too, like Protein Power. The the extent that I follow any eating plan (and I don't), I ascribe to the principles of PP more than any other. I think it's important to get sufficient protein so as not to lose muscle, and I really like the idea of spreading out the carbs, only having 10-12 at any one meal so as not to invoke an insulin response. I really admire the diabetes doctor, Richard Bernstein, and he advocates the same thing in terms of carb limits. (I read his stuff because I'm trying to avoid type2 diabetes, since I have 2 sisters with it.)

Good UD today--stayed within my calorie limits. I was very hungry about 2 pm, so I had my main meal then, and was totally satisfied with a 100 cal egg-white omelet in the evening (made in olive oil, thus the calories). I have to keep reminding myself that I tend to be hungrier early in the day because if I try to delay eating, that's a trigger for overeating, I think.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:17 AM   #156
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well--I had a pretty decadent carb-up day--ate the things I had been craving (bran muffin, popcorn, and a grilled cheese sandwich)--and of course spent a horrible night (2:30am antiacid pill was the only thing that saved me). I remember why I do these carbups so infrequently--I think my last one was the end of january--

so DD today--and on to my well planned and conservative UD's. I expect the next few days will be a bit challenging due to carb detox, but you play, you pay.

I am giving a LOT of thought today to what tomorrow needs to look like. I am really moving out of so much focus on DDs (easy peasy) into truly managing my UDs--cause I want this extra fat OFF!! No more messin' around!

Ouis Out--
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:46 AM   #157
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my DD yesterday following my carbup went very well--now on to my UD--my new improved UD, lol! I am going to post my food here on UDs for some personal accountability for the time being.

B: psyllium protein powder pancakes (yum!)


L: tuna salad on cheese 'bread'


midaft snack: protein powder pudding


dinner: veggie chicken stirfry

and dessert: 99% cacao chocolate


As you can see, I am going protein heavy on my UDs now--I think it manages my desire to binge waaayyyy better than focusing on fat does. It is all a work in progress!

feeling a little lonely on the JUDDD thread these days--no guilt trips, I promise, but maybe others are less interested in this woe? I mean besides the regulars? I have to say, I am a lifer at this point!

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Old 03-22-2010, 09:00 AM   #158
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RE Lonely Board... yes we're certainly down on the activity level. As we know this plan really ISN'T for everyone. I think alot of people check it out looking for fast losses but can't stick with it over the long term. I'm the first to say I wouldn't eat this way unless I had to! If I could lose on Atkins Induction or Atkins OWL trust and believe thats how I'd be eating! Those of us that stick with this long term or even keep coming back to this WOE I suspect are those few that MUST.


***********************
DD for me today. I'm exhausted! Totallly sleepless night all night last night. So frustrating! I did little better than intermittent dozing and thats AFTER taking two Tylenol Simply Sleep. Bizarre.

I'm feeling sorry for myself cuz I'm tired and already pre-planning slipping up on my DD! Trying to justify doing MD instead. I guess we'll see how I feel after work. The truth is I may be TOO TIRED to eat much and may be in bed super early. I'm off to ****** to see how much food I can fit in my 500 cals. Sometimes that makes me feel better/more comitted to DD.

Happy JUDDing.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:16 AM   #159
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Just sayin' hi!
I am still here, still Juddding, still plugging along. I really like this plan, and know I
can lose with it, if I were stricter with ups. I have had two very good down days and
am hoping to pull off a good one today.
At least I am not gaining, which is more than I can say for how I have done in the past when I allow myself some of the indulgences I have been allowing on the up days.
Been reading about primal eating, etc. and would love to try it, but I just know I could not/would not eliminate dairy or grains for the long haul, so although I think it is healthy, I need to be realistic with myself. I am so impressed that you have been able to do it Leo and clearly, your results are well deserved.

Hubby and I want to have a strict week with our Judding......................Here goes!
Now I need to go take my total body conditioning class. eek.
Have a great week all my juddders!
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:25 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by snaggle View Post
Just sayin' hi!
I am still here, still Juddding, still plugging along. I really like this plan, and know I
can lose with it, if I were stricter with ups. I have had two very good down days and
am hoping to pull off a good one today.
At least I am not gaining, which is more than I can say for how I have done in the past when I allow myself some of the indulgences I have been allowing on the up days.
Been reading about primal eating, etc. and would love to try it, but I just know I could not/would not eliminate dairy or grains for the long haul, so although I think it is healthy, I need to be realistic with myself. I am so impressed that you have been able to do it Leo and clearly, your results are well deserved.

Hubby and I want to have a strict week with our Judding......................Here goes!
Now I need to go take my total body conditioning class. eek.
Have a great week all my juddders!
I'm so impressed how you're keeping up the exercise! WTG
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:49 AM   #161
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Ouis-

I have always emphasized protein on JUDDD (because of my fondness of ProteinPower), and I really believe that helps with satiety. At one point, I responded to one of Dr. Eades' blogs asking about JUDDD, and he responded that it sounded fine (I guess because close to IF, which he likes), but to be sure I got enough "high quality protein." That solidified my focus on protein.

Kisha-

You can do a DD--but beware because tiredness often presents as hunger. I read that somewhere and have found that it's true for me. I often don't sleep well, and if I'm on a DD, I have to keep reminding myself that I'm really tired and not as hungry as I feel (I think the science behind it is that the body wants more energy and thus pushes for food.)

Snaggle-

It's not discipline that keeps me primal--it's health. I find that I feel so great eating this way that I'm not the least bit tempted by grains or dairy--much as I love that stuff. I think of it like smoking (which I've never done)--i.e., those who quit often never lose the desire for a cigarette, but they balance the benefits/negatives and opt not to light up. And I really don't have any cravings at all, so it's fairly easy to avoid the 'forbidden fruit.'
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:14 AM   #162
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Kisha- I know that the many experts are now saying that exercise is really minor in terms of actually losing weight, and even my spinning teacher says that 80% of what determines body composition is what you eat, but for me, the last few years, it
is the one thing I have stuck with. I am pretty sure that had I not continued with regular exercise, I would have gained back a lot of what I have lost. The way I exercise now is much more effective than when I started. Before, I would try and put in longer workouts and more slow, steady cardio. Now I am doing high intensity interval cardio, combined with weights/strength training. I get way better results in less time.

Leo- Getting to the point where you aren't even tempted is still quite an accomplishment. So many times when I have fallen off the diet wagon, and then gotten on, I think to myself, "wow, I feel so much better, why did I ever do that?"
Maybe it isn't discipline, but it definitely is diligence.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:48 PM   #163
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Hi everyone its been mts. sense I did a dd. But I am doing one today.

Leo I have a question for you. i also do primal can you tell me what
you eat on a dd? Thank you
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:09 PM   #164
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Dr. Eades' IF

Hi all,
Someone posted a link to Dr. Eades' blog where he discusses IF. He talked about how much he and his wife liked it because it was easy to stick too. I'm still not finished reading all the comments (he actually responds to everyone! what a great guy!). Anyway I started yesterday with the IF...to me, it's another way of doing JUDDD that I think will make it easier for me on those UD's. So yesterday, I stopped eating at 6pm...no food all day today until 6pm. I focused on protein and whole foods and had 4 leftover shrimps and a smoothie with a banana, an orange, 2 cups spinach, 1.5 cups strawberries, 2 egg whites and 4 tbls HC. Tomorrow, breakfast, lunch and some protein snack BEFORE 6pm. Haven't planned out the food yet for tomorrow, but it will be lots of protein. Then no food the next day until 6pm again. He recommends you stay low carb and incorporate lots of protein. So far, I'm liking this because it's still like JUDDD in that every other day is a FAST day, or DD but I can still eat a meal! I'll let you know if I lose any weight after a week of doing this.

Night Nurse, are you OK? haven't seen you in awhile and I know you've been sick. Hope all is well with you!
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:10 AM   #165
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dasiey-

Good to see you back! What I eat on DDs varies--but not very much. My staple is egg white "omelets." I use a little Pam in a big cup, 1/4 cup egg whites, and a dollop of chopped spinach for a 40 cal breakfast--since I like to eat throughout the day. Yesterday I only had one in the morning, but I've had as many as 3 of these during the day.

Yesterday I also mixed a pouch of wild salmon (120 cal) with a little chopped celery and light mayo (35 cal--I add apple cider vinegar and brown mustard to my light mayo to lessen the calories). This made a lot, and I had 1 or 2 T at a time during the day with my tea. I also do this with tuna for variety.

In the evening, I had two cups of homemade chicken broth into which I dribbled another 1/4 cup egg whites to make an egg-drop soup (about 80 cal total). As you may know, I add vinegar and hot sauce to my broth, and it is really satisfying.

I try to get as much protein as I can, but that's not much when I try to stay at 350 cal or below.

I hope this helps.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:15 AM   #166
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Hey JUDDDers!

I am still here although this weekend was a struggle. I have basically had 4 UD's in a row. Today is a MUCH NEEDED DD.

Kisha and Leo - I am the same way when it comes to fat. It does not make me any fuller or make me stop eating any sooner. As a matter of fact, when I got on the coconut oil bandwagon I swear it made me hungrier. I couldn't understand why I didn't feel the fullness that people were reporting. Maybe it's a hypo thing.

I know that some of the reason why I have been struggling with this is stress. I have had quite a few changes since August, including 2 deaths in the family. I just haven't been on track since the changes and I have been struggling with HOW to get back on track. I was in such a groove and then my thyroid wacked out and all the changes took place.

I AM NOT giving up though! This is definetly the plan for me when I am doing it!
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:35 AM   #167
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shell--I am so sorry about your family losses--that makes it so hard. On the coconut oil note, I follow a board where people track their blood sugar as a diet tool (shangri-la) and people have repeatedly noted that for some folks, CO causes them to become temporarily hypoglycemic. I think that for those folks (like you) CO would cause hunger, shakiness, etc. I have gotten myself a blood sugar test kit, even tho I have very normal BG thanks to LC, and have found it fascinating to see what sets me off and what gives me an insulogenic response. You know how some people get very sated on heavy cream? I am one of those people who have an insulogenic response to dairy and nuts.

Moral of the story? We are all very different in how our bodies react. People can argue all they want about how you have to do this or you have to do that (eat high fat, count calories, drink heavy cream, yada yada yada). The truth is, if you figure out how YOUR body works by being a good self-observing lab rat, you are then in the driver's seat.

Have a good day JUDDD folks. DD for me, and my third day since my carbup which is often the hard day--however, so far, so good!

Ouis
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:37 AM   #168
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Hang in there Michelle! You're right you've been through alot. Just they thryoid problems alone have had me derailed for pretty much an entire year. The key is to not give up no matter what.

********************
I did NOT do DD yesterday. i just wasn't feeling it. I'll do one Wednesday then again Friday and see where I'm at. Honestly as long as I maintain or just lose a few until my new Endo appointment 4/26 I'll be satisfied. Right now I'm just focusing on NOT GAINING!
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:11 AM   #169
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Kisha-

Keep in mind that for us (who gain faster than the speed of light), NOT gaining is a victory!

Michelle-

I, too, had no success with CO. In fact, it elevated my LDL dramatically, which is why I cut it out. I suspect that all the wonderful reports are partially what I call the "bandwagon syndrome" on these boards. Have you ever noticed how these fats just take on a life of their own.

I totally agree with Ouis that we're all different and have to determine what works for us--although I haven't gone so far as to check my blood glucose--mainly because I hate finger pricks more than actual shots!

GrammyPat-
I admire you for trying IF and JUDDD. I can barely manage JUDDD itself, which I consider a form of IF, since Dr. J says that the low calories of DDs are very similar to total fasting in terms of the effect on the body (I'm hoping he's right). You may remember that I read about a study done with people eating only between 10 am and 2 pm on DDs. I tried that for a week and didn't notice any improvement--and I found it too annoying to focus on eating between those times, since I'm really an early morning eater.

Let us know how this works for you.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:22 AM   #170
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Stopping in the say hello! I am still JUDDDing but I have decided to go about it with low carb and more protein. For the last few months, there has been a small loss and sometimes just maintaining with eating whatever on the DD and UD.

I need to lose weight for health (and a little vanity! :blush but I think going about it with better foods for me will help a lot (especially with hunger!).

Have to leave for work, hope everyone has a great Tuesday!
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:35 AM   #171
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LOL Leo--if you ever decide to try glucose testing again, Jenny's bloodsugar 101 site gave great advice. never prick the pad of your finger--it hurts! set the pricker thingy on the lowest setting (1-2) and poke the side of your pinky finger--I swear I do not feel a thing! But I am a crazy labrat and I am interested in all sorts of random information that is probably unnecessary:blush:
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:13 PM   #172
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Ouis-

Since you're interested in these things, you might find my situation interesting. My endo checks my blood values every 4 months, and I'm always amazed that my fasting glucose is in the mid-90s (with a normal range up to 120). I would expect it to be lower, given the way I eat because Jenny says that a 'normal' adult will have a fasting BG in the mid-80s. However, he periodically does my A1C, and it's usually 5.1 or 5.2, so he's not concerned.

A week after my last A1C at 5.2, my primary did a BG, and it came out 107 (with his range limit being 99). I freaked out, convinced that I had finally developed diabetes. But my endo said he wasn't worried because of the A1C, but he'd do one again at our next test in late July.

Shortly after that, I came across a reference to the Hyperlipid site, where they were discussing the fact that low carb eaters will run high BG--but with low A1C. It's something to do with how the body is burning the fat--i.e., the high BG isn't the same as for diabetics (and is in the normal range); it seems to be just a phenomenon of how low carb eaters burn fat.

That's why we have to carb up before a glucose tolerance test--i.e., because our glucose readings wouldn't be reliable otherwise. I remember when my last endo did one about 4 years ago. She told me to eat 'high carb' for at least 3 days prior to the blood draw. I spent a weekend eating muffins, pancakes, rice, pie, etc., etc. I was convinced that my BG would be sky high with all those carbs--but it came out perfectly normal.

I find this fascinating.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:55 PM   #173
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Yes Leo--this exactly--my fasting BG this morning was 104--though I usually run in the 90's--but my A1c on my last draw was 4.8--on UD's when I actually have some carbs in my system for insulin to act on, my BG tends to run low 90's, but unlike the carbeaters, I don't drop into the 80's! We vlc peeps do run differently. I so appreciate Jenny's site--what a wealth of info!
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #174
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dasiey-

Good to see you back! What I eat on DDs varies--but not very much. My staple is egg white "omelets." I use a little Pam in a big cup, 1/4 cup egg whites, and a dollop of chopped spinach for a 40 cal breakfast--since I like to eat throughout the day. Yesterday I only had one in the morning, but I've had as many as 3 of these during the day.

Yesterday I also mixed a pouch of wild salmon (120 cal) with a little chopped celery and light mayo (35 cal--I add apple cider vinegar and brown mustard to my light mayo to lessen the calories). This made a lot, and I had 1 or 2 T at a time during the day with my tea. I also do this with tuna for variety.

In the evening, I had two cups of homemade chicken broth into which I dribbled another 1/4 cup egg whites to make an egg-drop soup (about 80 cal total). As you may know, I add vinegar and hot sauce to my broth, and it is really satisfying.

I try to get as much protein as I can, but that's not much when I try to stay at 350 cal or below.

I hope this helps.
It sure does thank you.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:36 AM   #175
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Today's a DD, and I woke up starving. I told myself that I'd never make it through this DD, especially since I ate close to 300 cal for breakfast!

It's odd because with JUDDD I rarely wake up hungry. Then I realized that I'm always hungry before a loss, so this might be a good sign after all (one can hope The best thing for me to do is ignore the hunger and just move on.

I have a lot to do today, as it's my volunteer day at Literacy Volunteers where I staff the office on Wednesdays, and I'm seeing a new ESL 'student' this morning as well. So I won't be around food nor focusing on it.

So I hope to hold on and not go above 400 cal today. This is all SO worth it, so I don't want to mess up.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:13 AM   #176
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Yeah Leo!! Hunger good! You won't blow it--and if you get super hungry, a packet of shirataki noodles rinsed and cut up in a cup of 5 calorie broth will chase those hungries far away!!

UD today, so I am posting my menu for accountability:

Bfst: eggwhite and truffle cheese omelette

Lunch: tuna salad on cheese "bread"

snack: protein muffin


dinner: I chair a monthly consultation group on foster care treatment and it is always a potluck--I stick to LC, and it is at my house, so I will make some kind of LC salad to have, probably along with some cheese and coldcuts.


I have been walking quite a bit lately as well as weight training at the gym--especially on my UD's--
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:27 AM   #177
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WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Ouis-

Isn't it sad how our UD menus look a lot like the daily menus of some folks on the Main Lobby

However, I'm resigned to the fact that I need to eat in a way that works for me, and controlling UDs is essential.

By the way, I don't do shirataki noodles 1) because I tried a version of these things a couple of years ago, and they were too awful even for me (I pride myself on eating almost anything); 2) these days, I'm trying to avoid most processed foods. But my plain broth works for me almost as well, and I find that if I need a little 'extra,' a T of psyllium makes it very filling.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on this DD. I'll let you know how it turns out. Sadly, I'm no longer hungry: I hope that doesn't mean that my body is happy and not burning fat
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:30 AM   #178
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DD? Um not LOL

I ate TWO FLAX MUFFINS this morning before I remembered its supposed to be DD. lOL um yeah thats like 600 calories.

oops.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:05 PM   #179
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Hey guys!

Well, yesterdays DD went over a little. I ended up around 600, which compared to the previous 4 days was awesome! I am doing a little less than an UD today and so far, so good. I have realized that I am eating way too many carbs and I think that is contributing to not only my hunger, but feeling sleepy alot. I am going to cut down on the carbs. I am always scared to go too low with the Hypo, but right now I am not watching them at all! I am a pro at low carb and can do it when I set my mind to it. So I have planned out some low carb dinners for the weekend and I think it will make a difference in how I feel. I am not even thinking about the weight...just how I feel.

Leo and Oius - I used to test my blood sugar all the time..just for fun. I was curious to see how I reacted to different things. The one thing I did learn about myself was that after I ate certain things my BS would spike and then get REALLY low. When I was later diagnosed HYPO I just chalked it up to a symptom of that. I should test myself again. It was interesting seeing how I reacted to different things. Yes, I have YEARS of food journals and useless information that I have kept.

The last 2 times I went to the doc they did my fasting BS and it was always a little over 100. My doctor just told me to be careful because that was considered pre-diabetic. I chalked it up to the fact that I had drank coffee both times. I know that affects my BS, as well as artificial sweetners.

Sorry bout your DD Kisha. I have actually done that before. Just eat and then realize OOPS...lol.

Daisy - Welcome back!
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:50 PM   #180
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Thank you Michelle. Today is dd. So far I am in control
but I keep thinking about food. So far 2 boiled eggs around
11:30 am holding out as long as I can. For something
else.
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