OCT. JUDDD/Alternate Day Diet

[snaggle]

Kisha-
I love that you used the "hard things" quote. That is my favorite!
Would it bug you if I put it in my siggy too?
I gotta dump the reference to the 6wkcure since I am not doing it anymore.
The hard things line is my mantra.

[BillB]

Originally Posted by snaggle

Kisha-
I love that you used the "hard things" quote. That is my favorite!
Would it bug you if I put it in my siggy too?
I gotta dump the reference to the 6wkcure since I am not doing it anymore.
The hard things line is my mantra.

I think we should rename our thread to include "We can do hard things" in the title.



--bill

[onceNforall]

Wow...hope all of you who aren't feeling up to par feel real better soon! No fun being sick without the benefit of comfort foods.

Well, I made it through another DD and my mood improved as the day went on. Amazingly enough I'm not hungry tonight, but already fantasizing about what I'll eat tomorrow on my UD. I need to keep it clean and will try to remember the Hard Things mantra. I have it hanging above my computer, but don't use it often enough.

Bill...I think it's wonderful that you are helping your mom out at this point with your dad. He sounds like a handful. My mother is quite demanding (84)and while she still lives alone, I let her get to me more than I should. I think sometimes we need to be blunt with them to get their attention. You need to take care of yourself first (I don't think any of us are good at that). Your getting healthy is the best thing you can do to be able to be a help to them. Guess we all have our struggles in life, but need to count our blessings every once in a while to keep our sanity.

[nitenurse]

Made it through another DD, fairly tough, hope that means I'm losing.This is still lots, lots better than feeling deprived for a week at a time. Now if my upday tomorrow is not a train wreck, or even if it is, I will be fine.
I can do anything for one day-RIGHT!

[Beezle]

Bill recommended JUDDD to me when I made a thread about trying a 820 cal/day plan to lose fast. I've been reading up on it the past 2 days. I'm familiar with Sert1 from resveratrol and calorie restriction, but didn't know intermittent dieting could also trigger it. That's amazing, but I have some questions for you guys.

Induction Atkins carbs is less than 20? What would you say is an average maintenance carb level for Atkins?

What's the highest DD percent of your normal calories that still keeps Sert1 active after the first 2 weeks and gives you all the health benifits of calorie restriction?

How many calories do you guys eat on an UD on average?

Why do you have to eat less than 500 for the first 2 weeks for Sert1 to turn on? Why doesn't it turn off if you up your percent later. What science is this based on?

After the first 2 weeks of 500cal DD, I'm wanting to do 820cal/20carb DDs ; 2000cal/50carb UD, with no junk food. 820 is 40% (wt. loss / maintenance) mode for me at my goal weight. I know I could do this easily. Think a 5'4" girl could go from 138 to 120 by the end of the year doing this?

Lots of questions! Sorry, I'll eventually read the book and finish reading this giant thread

[Leo41]

Tough DD, but I got through it. I couldn't sleep and was really, truly hungry, so I had 3 cucumber slices (that I keep in my diluted pickle juice), and it was amazingly satisfying.

This morning, I hadn't taken my thyroid med in the middle of the night when I usually do (when I get up to use the bathroom). That meant that I couldn't eat for an hour--I usually eat immediately in the morning. Yet I wasn't starving, and was completely satisfied once I ate. This will be a reminder for the next DD when I'm so hungry--it can be done!

Beezle-
To try to respond to some of your questions:

I've been doing low carb for years, and the number of maintenance calories depends on the individual. The advice is always to add carbs until you stop losing, and that's supposed to be your level. For me, calories are also important.

I have no idea "how" to activate the SIRTI--or even whether it's actually activate. I just followed the directions on the JUDDD website.

I use the calculator on the JUDDD website to determine my DD calorie limit. But I keep my UDs fairly low because I do JUDDD mainly for calorie restriction. Since I'm post-menopausal and hypothyroid, I have to average
<1000 cal a day to lose. Most people on this board eat much more freely on UDs.

As to "why" the 500 cal. for the first 2 weeks, I'd suggest you read the book, although I don't recall whether there was a scientific explanation of the "why"--just the admonition to keep to to that number.

Your plan for 820 cal DDs seems more like maintenance than losing, but I don't know for sure. Is that the number you get from the calculator? If so, then it should work. Keep in mind that the UD number you get from the calculator is irrelevant (e.g., I could never lose with the number for me). I don't really know why it's included because in his book, Dr. J says it can be ignored, that the key number is the DD calories. What you want to do is create an "average" between DD and UD calories that allows you to lose at a safe rate.

[Whitlin']

Beezie, to add to Leo's info, the 500 Down Day calories are a simplification of the calculation for 20 percent of the average for overweight women's normal daily calorie intakes. You can always choose to do the math, but Dr. Johnson's studies showed him that 500 calories would be a good average for everyone overall, and would simplify the plan while definitely activating the gene.

Like you, I had already lost some weight, to 162 (I'm taller than you, btw), before I came to JUDDD (mine was not lost through low carb). I just took the 500 number and lost a dozen more pounds in 2 months - my most successful loss. (I'm whittlin' down a tiny increase right now and changed my stats to reflect that) I don't think it is a big deal for everyone to calculate exact down day calories - the 500 number seems to work.

Dr Johnson said that he chose the percentage because it would be an average of 60 percent reduction over every two days, which various studies showed to be "maximally effective in prolonging the lifespan of a number of species". And also because he had discovered through his studies that eating 20 percent of what they normally would every other day was tolerable for must people.

You would benefit so much from the book, and it's inexpensive - I recommend it to everyone.

As far as an opinion on whether you can lose what you are hoping - look at my experience in the previous paragraph. I guess it depends upon how close you feel you are (knowing your own body) to a goal you and your body agree on. I was certainly a dozen pounds from goal when I started JUDDD and my body agreed. It is always harder closer to goal - sometimes your body decides to slow down and appreciate a scale number along the way!

The short answer is, JUDDD is going to get you there more efficiently than any other plan, IMO.

[snaggle]

Beezle- welcome to our little group.
I am thinking that bumping up to 800 cal gradually for your down days may work for maintenance, but I am not sure that it will be enough of a restriction to lose 18 lbs in
2.5 months. I only averaged 1.5 lbs or less per week with 400-500 cal down days. Now, I am older and menopausal, so my metabolism is probably slower, but I do work out regularly too.
To answer your other questions, I averaged around 1900 or so on my up days, but did have a few that were up around 2300.
I came at this from low carbing and still TRY and keep below 50 carbs a day, but even that was not a hard and fast rule.
I would follow the plan to the letter for two weeks, keeping the dd's below 500, and then gradually add back in a few more calories and see if you keep losing.
You are pretty close to goal and it may go slow. Be patient.
Good luck.

[BillB]

Originally Posted by Beezle

Bill recommended JUDDD to me when I made a thread about trying a 820 cal/day plan to lose fast. I've been reading up on it the past 2 days. I'm familiar with Sert1 from resveratrol and calorie restriction, but didn't know intermittent dieting could also trigger it. That's amazing, but I have some questions for you guys.



Induction Atkins carbs is less than 20? What would you say is an average maintenance carb level for Atkins?

---I think this varies widely. Not all carbs affect us the same. I can eat way more (net) carbs of good veggies than net carbs of LC bread, for example, without having problems.

What's the highest DD percent of your normal calories that still keeps Sert1 active after the first 2 weeks and gives you all the health benifits of calorie restriction?

--I think this varies from person to person as well. I still haven't read Dr. J's book, although I am about to do that. I can't find much info about SERT1 in general. I do take resveratrol (700mg or 1400mg a day, depending).

How many calories do you guys eat on an UD on average?

--When I started alternate day, I was eating over 3500 cals every day. Since starting JUDD, my average daily cals are about 1750, with less than 500 cals every other day and no more than 2500 on UDs. I also still eat LC / VLC, but I am also diabetic.

Why do you have to eat less than 500 for the first 2 weeks for Sert1 to turn on? Why doesn't it turn off if you up your percent later. What science is this based on?

--I wish I knew.

After the first 2 weeks of 500cal DD, I'm wanting to do 820cal/20carb DDs ; 2000cal/50carb UD, with no junk food. 820 is 40% (wt. loss / maintenance) mode for me at my goal weight. I know I could do this easily. Think a 5'4" girl could go from 138 to 120 by the end of the year doing this?

--I would think keeping your DDs lower would be smart. I think the calorie restriction is key. There is a wonderful tool on live strong dot com that will allow you to enter your activity / exercise levels, your calorie intake, and it will compute what your calorie consumption would need to be to reach your goal by X date. I am tracking both on Live strong and fit day, because they both have features that I like and dislike. Both are great tools.

Lots of questions! Sorry, I'll eventually read the book and finish reading this giant thread

--Glad to see you here.

Originally Posted by Leo41

Tough DD, but I got through it. I couldn't sleep and was really, truly hungry, so I had 3 cucumber slices (that I keep in my diluted pickle juice), and it was amazingly satisfying.

--Cucumbers & pickles......

This morning, I hadn't taken my thyroid med in the middle of the night when I usually do (when I get up to use the bathroom). That meant that I couldn't eat for an hour--I usually eat immediately in the morning. Yet I wasn't starving, and was completely satisfied once I ate. This will be a reminder for the next DD when I'm so hungry--it can be done!

--We can do hard things.

Beezle-
To try to respond to some of your questions:

I've been doing low carb for years, and the number of maintenance calories depends on the individual. The advice is always to add carbs until you stop losing, and that's supposed to be your level. For me, calories are also important.

--Yep.

I have no idea "how" to activate the SIRTI--or even whether it's actually activate. I just followed the directions on the JUDDD website.

--Same here....and I read the JUDDD threads.

I use the calculator on the JUDDD website to determine my DD calorie limit. But I keep my UDs fairly low because I do JUDDD mainly for calorie restriction. Since I'm post-menopausal and hypothyroid, I have to average
<1000 cal a day to lose. Most people on this board eat much more freely on UDs.

--I toyed with upping my cals on DD, but ultimately decided to stick with the 500 because I believe it is working for me.

As to "why" the 500 cal. for the first 2 weeks, I'd suggest you read the book, although I don't recall whether there was a scientific explanation of the "why"--just the admonition to keep to to that number.

Your plan for 820 cal DDs seems more like maintenance than losing, but I don't know for sure.

--I think I have to agree, even though I am sure it isn't what you want to hear.

Is that the number you get from the calculator? If so, then it should work. Keep in mind that the UD number you get from the calculator is irrelevant (e.g., I could never lose with the number for me). I don't really know why it's included because in his book, Dr. J says it can be ignored, that the key number is the DD calories. What you want to do is create an "average" between DD and UD calories that allows you to lose at a safe rate.

Originally Posted by onceNforall

Wow...hope all of you who aren't feeling up to par feel real better soon! No fun being sick without the benefit of comfort foods.

--I am full-fledged sick today, and I am totally not hungry. I will try to eat some broth and some lean meat later.

Well, I made it through another DD and my mood improved as the day went on. Amazingly enough I'm not hungry tonight, but already fantasizing about what I'll eat tomorrow on my UD. I need to keep it clean and will try to remember the Hard Things mantra. I have it hanging above my computer, but don't use it often enough.

--The Hard Things mantra helps me, coming on here to read posts helps me. I find my successful DDs to be very empowering. Weird, eh?

Bill...I think it's wonderful that you are helping your mom out at this point with your dad. He sounds like a handful. My mother is quite demanding (84)and while she still lives alone, I let her get to me more than I should. I think sometimes we need to be blunt with them to get their attention. You need to take care of yourself first (I don't think any of us are good at that). Your getting healthy is the best thing you can do to be able to be a help to them. Guess we all have our struggles in life, but need to count our blessings every once in a while to keep our sanity.

--Good for your mom to be so independent. I know the demanding part can be hard. They sure do know how to push our buttons, right?

Originally Posted by nitenurse

Made it through another DD, fairly tough, hope that means I'm losing.This is still lots, lots better than feeling deprived for a week at a time.

--I am sure this is one of the reasons this works for me. One day at a time.

Now if my upday tomorrow is not a train wreck, or even if it is, I will be fine.
I can do anything for one day-RIGHT!

--Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Whitlin'

Beezie, to add to Leo's info, the 500 Down Day calories are a simplification of the calculation for 20 percent of the average for overweight women's normal daily calorie intakes. You can always choose to do the math, but Dr. Johnson's studies showed him that 500 calories would be a good average for everyone overall, and would simplify the plan while definitely activating the gene.

Like you, I had already lost some weight, to 162 (I'm taller than you, btw), before I came to JUDDD (mine was not lost through low carb). I just took the 500 number and lost a dozen more pounds in 2 months - my most successful loss. (I'm whittlin' down a tiny increase right now and changed my stats to reflect that) I don't think it is a big deal for everyone to calculate exact down day calories - the 500 number seems to work.

Dr Johnson said that he chose the percentage because it would be an average of 60 percent reduction over every two days, which various studies showed to be "maximally effective in prolonging the lifespan of a number of species". And also because he had discovered through his studies that eating 20 percent of what they normally would every other day was tolerable for must people.

You would benefit so much from the book, and it's inexpensive - I recommend it to everyone.

--This is good advice for any plan!

As far as an opinion on whether you can lose what you are hoping - look at my experience in the previous paragraph. I guess it depends upon how close you feel you are (knowing your own body) to a goal you and your body agree on. I was certainly a dozen pounds from goal when I started JUDDD and my body agreed. It is always harder closer to goal - sometimes your body decides to slow down and appreciate a scale number along the way!

The short answer is, JUDDD is going to get you there more efficiently than any other plan, IMO.

--I have to agree here as well.

Originally Posted by snaggle

Beezle- welcome to our little group.
I am thinking that bumping up to 800 cal gradually for your down days may work for maintenance, but I am not sure that it will be enough of a restriction to lose 18 lbs in
2.5 months. I only averaged 1.5 lbs or less per week with 400-500 cal down days. Now, I am older and menopausal, so my metabolism is probably slower, but I do work out regularly too.
To answer your other questions, I averaged around 1900 or so on my up days, but did have a few that were up around 2300.
I came at this from low carbing and still TRY and keep below 50 carbs a day, but even that was not a hard and fast rule.
I would follow the plan to the letter for two weeks, keeping the dd's below 500, and then gradually add back in a few more calories and see if you keep losing.
You are pretty close to goal and it may go slow. Be patient.
Good luck.

Beezle, I saw that you had posted your picture on your first thread. You look great. I hope you will keep monitoring how you feel (and look to yourself, since that is important to all of us) and not become enchanted by some magical number that may or not be the right one for your best health. A goal is great, but you can change it if you want to.

--bill

--bill

[Beezle]

Thanks for the replies. For some reason I was thinking you got to eat a LOT more calories on UDs and still lose. Somewhere I read that the rats who fasted every other day just ate double the next, but still got all the health benefits of CR. But that must just be for longevity, not weight loss.

I can't do 500 cal per day. NOPE! But I never follow anyone's plan straight out of the box so that's ok. I think I can modify this to me and still benefit from it's ideas.

So, for the first 2 weeks I'm going to stick with my current plan of 820 cals every day. The first one and a half days were torture, but like a switch yesterday afternoon all cravings for food stopped. Today I feel amazing. That's a 50% reduction everyday according to the calculator, so it should definitely start up Sert1 for me.

Then after that I'll keep 820 cals for DDs and slowly add calories for UDs and see what I can handle. I'll still be low carbing. And I don't mind if I lose slower on this plan, because I think I can lose and be completely satisfied the entire time. Before I saw my choices as being satisfied and only maintaining my weight, or struggling to lose the last 20. I really felt that no matter how fast or slow I lost the last 20, I'd be struggling the whole way.

I ordered the book this morning and will be picking up some Resveratrol supplements too. Do you all take it?

Had to change my WOE in my profile to "My own version of Pericone/JUDDD/SouthBeach/Atkins"

This is going to be so easy! I'm going to be so thin and healthy and live forever.

[Beezle]

Bill, I will gladly stop losing the second my boyfriend says I should. He likes a little meat so it shouldn't be TOO thin. I wouldn't be losing at all except that he wants me too. When we met I was still losing and he thought I looked great, but would look even better a little slimmer. So he's always imagined me that way and knew that it was my intention to do it. As my weight settled at where it is now for the past year and a half I decided it was good enough and not worth the effort to go lower. He secretly didn't agree, but didn't let me know he was disappointed until recently.

Now we can debate on if it's ok to lose weight for someone else, but I'm not doing it entirely for him. I want be a little smaller too, but finding out how disappointed he is put my motivation to lose over the top. And the number isn't set in stone. I just want him to look at me and say "WOW, you've done great, don't change a thing."

[mistydisa]

Whitlin' ~ My family is trying the Vitamin D supplements instead of getting flu shots. Neither my husband or I have ever had a flu shot and I hate to start if I don't have to. I've been doing a lot of research on this subject and think the Vitamin D thing may just be a good thing to try. I also learned that on any sunny day, regardless of the temperature, you should try to get outside for 20 minutes so that your body can manufacture Vitamin D. Evidently, the scientific community is starting to think a Vitamin D deficiency in the winter is the main cause of compromised immune systems and thus more sicknesses.

Bill ~ I'm sending all sorts of positive energy and thoughts your way! It sounds like you are under a tremendous amount of stress. Good for you for taking care of yourself in this trying time!

Beezle ~ I hate to make such a negative first impression on you with you being new here and all, but I just gotta speak my mind.... From what you have described, I don't think I would like this boyfriend of yours very much. I hope you make your health choices based on what you want rather than what someone else tells you to do. 138 at 5'4", in my opinion, is really great.


Extremely tough DD for me today. I'm down in the dumps (for a number of reasons) and want to comfort myself with food. It's cold and rainy and my baby is grumpy. And for some reason, all I can think about is a chili-cheese hot dog. I know, I know...tomorrow. Grrr.

[smiles47]

<a href="http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/wcy6WcM/">
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[BillB]

[QUOTE=mistydisa;12616592]

Bill ~ I'm sending all sorts of positive energy and thoughts your way! It sounds like you are under a tremendous amount of stress. Good for you for taking care of yourself in this trying time!

THANK YOU! I'll send some good energy right back atcha!

Beezle ~ I hate to make such a negative first impression on you with you being new here and all, but I just gotta speak my mind.... From what you have described, I don't think I would like this boyfriend of yours very much. I hope you make your health choices based on what you want rather than what someone else tells you to do. 138 at 5'4", in my opinion, is really great.

She does look great....

I hope people will always tell me the truth even if I don't like it (and my first thoughts when I read about Beezle's bf were the same as yours). But I thought about it for a while... This is such a complicated issue. On the one hand, everyone wants their partner to love and support them no matter what. And we all want to be desirable to our partner. Some guys, rather than admit to their wife / gf that they want her to be smaller or more fit, or whatever...just keep quiet and cheat with someone else. I think Beezle is pretty brave to come on here and tell her story. So...I think it's great that you said what you did--and congratulations on the tactful way you worded your thoughts. I've known some women, too, who were unhappy with the size/fitness of their husbands...but who didn't say anything directly, only harbored resentment and remained unaroused and angry. It's a complicated issue. I might like to think that I wouldn't "change" to please someone else, but I can easily imagine a situation where I would do it--especially if I already wanted to change, and just needed extra motivation.

We can all do hard things.



--bill

[Beezle]

Bill I like you. You're a cool guy.

mistydisa, I love direct people so I love that you speak your mind.

Being with such a direct guy, I never hear any white lies. But I get to have great conversations like this.

Me: Do you like this shirt?
Him: It's a shirt.
Me: But do you like it?
Him: It's blue.
Me: Do you like blue?
Him: I don't care <eyes go back to his computer screen>
Me: Should I take it back?
Him: Do what you want. You're being needy and annoying.
Me: <stand there for a second, feelings hurt, then shake it off and decide if I like the shirt or not, then go away to return it>

Being around men who are direct with their thoughts generally helps me be more direct in my actions.

I've also learned to be more precise with my language. Part of why he was disappointed wasn't that I didn't lose weight, but that I'd often say I was going to, and then not. He saw this as a weakness, not because I didn't lose weight, but because I didn't do what I said I was going to do.

Now with him I say "I'm thinking of trying _____." This is great because it leaves open a space for him to give his opinion about what I've said since I'm still in the contemplation phase. When I say "I'm going to do ____" all he can respond with is "OK," because he assumes I mean exactly what I said. I'm going to do it, end of story. He is honestly one of those people who always mean exactly what they say, and I love that about him. Of course, that means if I ask if he's going to do something I usually get a "we'll see."

And when he tells me how much he loves me, I know how true it is.

[Whitlin']

Now we can debate on if it's ok to lose weight for someone else, - Beezle

It is always okay to lose weight because a person whose opinion you respect, who truly cares about your well-being, advises it for you. But even when you do, you're still really doing it because you considered their advice and made your own decision.

Always accept help graciously, but kick manipulation to the curb.

About choosing "enchanted" goal numbers - when I tell people I'm at goal and it's 149, lots will say, "Why not just say 150?" But that's not the point - I want to be "in the 140s". In my mind, I'm successful if I stay UNDER a weight, not AT one. (So it must be all about the decimal system, right? Actually, I want to be "in the 140s" and working out at a greater level than I am right now, to be trimmer, more toned. I have some role models - women who weigh more than me at same height or less, yet are very fit, healthy and in smaller clothes sizes than me!

As far as what my dh says about it - he always gives different goals. He wants me to be content, cheerful. He complains if I show stress or worry about my weight. I think he sees that as threatening to his future well-being!!! (Smart guy!)

nitenurse - VERY cool about the waistline.

[Whitlin']

Oops, mistydisa, I almost missed your post about feeling down in the dumps today.

"Don' worry, be happy"

Hi to smiles.

[Leo41]

Beezle-

My concern is your 820 cal a day. You say that you don't plan to alternate right away. For how long are you planning to eat that little each day? I ask because one of the reasons that JUDDD is 'alternate day' is to 'trick' the metabolism into not slowing down because of so little food. According to Dr. J, the body doesn't react for at least 48 hours, and by that time, we're eating more, and the body is satisfied and doesn't slow down.

If you plan to eat only 820 cal. for an extended period of time, you may defeat your purpose if your metabolism slows to accommodate such little fuel.

By the way, I don't think ANY of us believed we could eat 500 cal every other day. Part of the reason JUDDD works for us is that we get a real insight into our food issues with the accomplishment of those DDs.

I don't quite understand why you're even considering this plan if you don't think it works for you.

[Leo41]

My YouBars!

I posted a while ago that I had ordered 'custom' bars to use when I travel, and I promised to report on the result. They arrived today.

They are so incredibly delicious--better than any of the 'protein bars' I've ever had.

I got to choose all the ingredients, and since I'm now eating 'primal,' my goal was to choose only natural things, no additives or questionable ingredients.

I included whey powder because it was the only way to get the amount of protein that I wanted for these bars that will be meal replacements for me, but everything else is completely natural--dates, almond butter, almonds, walnuts, unsweetened cocoa, and cinnamon.

They came to 167 cal, 9g net carbs (dates are used as sweetener; no sugar or any artifical sweetener), 10g fat, and 10g protein.

Once I chose my ingredients, I had the choice of a small, average, or large bar. To keep the calories down, I chose the average, and it's a decent size.
The one I had this afternoon with my tea (to taste them) was satisfying and didn't seem to spike my insulin (my point in staying under 10g carbs).

It's really good to know I can have something when I'm traveling so that I don't have to rely on junk. I used to bring plain nuts, but in order to get satisfied, the calorie count was too high.

[giJ]

Leo ~~ Thanks for the update on the bars. Seems like you got them pretty quickly, too. I am seriously considering an order.

[onceNforall]

Beezle....

I have to agree with Leo, though. I never thought I could do 500 calorie DD's either and today will be DD#6 and the completion of my two weeks of induction. Believe me....820 calories EVERY day sounds like pure torture to me (and it would surely screw with my metabolism and MY body would hold on to every fat cell for dear life fearing impending starvation).

JUDD is all about ALTERNATIVE eating. I think you'll understand more when you read the book...it explains it quite well. I know for me, my body after all these years of yo yo dieting, adapts and adjusts to any WOE very quickly. I truly believe (from the people on this forum who have been doing it now approaching a year, like LEO) that however this plan works, it does seem to confuse the body's chemistry and doesn't shut down your metabolism like a continual low calorie diet.

I do plan, now that my two week induction period is almost over, to allow myself to up my DD calories if needed to 600-800 to get me through a particularly hard DD, but have more faith in myself to do the 500 now than I did two weeks ago. I HAVE DONE IT AND I CAN DO IT. This is my third attempt at JUDD, but never made it through the whole first two weeks before. I am feeling very positive and optimistic that this is the WOE for me for life. Believe me....even with 500 calories every other day (and I do the MWF rotation), I know I can ALWAYS eat tomorrow...it's always just one day away.

My recommendation? Give it a try before telling yourself you can't do it. But either way, welcome and good luck in whatever you decide. The support and encouragement on this board is stupendous!!!

[PMoon]

I don't like the way the 6-6 experiment is going at all. This is just my third day (I quit eating at 6 last night) and I have gained 3 pounds and my inflammation is much worse. I could barely move my hands when I woke up this morning.

I have been weighing myself each morning as one of the ways I measure my inflammation. My weight fluctuates some from day to day as, over a period of time, I have lost quite a lot of weight. But it is very obvious on days that I am up a pound or two, I have much more joint pain. So, I believe the two are related. I don't know if fluid retention is a part of inflammation or what. In any case, I'm sure it's not fat I'm gaining. I've been eating very low carb.

Of course, it could be a coincidence. A few more days back on JUDDD should give me some more information. Either the pain will improve or it won't. I'm just going to go right back into a DD today. I think I will shoot for maybe 750 calories since I'm done with the induction phase.

I am REALLY not looking forward to the calorie counting that is going to be required, though. I mean... counting 750 or 1000 calories is going to be even more of a pain than counting 500. LOL

If I'm going to make this work while I'm working, I guess I will invest in some pre-packaged stuff (which we rarely buy any more.) I was thinking low carb yogurts and stuff like that. Things that have the calorie count on the package.

[Beezle]

PMoon, I hate counting calories too. I'd try coming up with a few 200-300 calorie meals. If you picked any 3 of them you'd be right around the calories you wanted. Of course that's only useful if you decide to keep your DDs at 750.

[Leo41]

Sherrie-

Congratulations on getting through 2 weeks at 500 cal DDs!! I think you'll experience "clear sailing" on JUDDD from now on--i.e., even though some of my DDs can be tough, the knowledge that I've done it before always gets me through. As you stick with this, I hope you have a similar experience to mine insofar as the insight I've been getting into my food issues from this WOE has been almost as important as the weight loss (although nothing really trumps the loss

Cassandra-

If that gain was rapid, then it's most likely water--and water retention always increases my arthritic pain. Do you also eat low carb? The advantage of low carb is that it's generally diuretic, although if you 'slip' and have carbs, then the water retention is quick.

Because I'm hypothyroid, I have a tendency to retain water even though I eat low carb, and my doctor has Rx a mild diuretic that I can take 'as needed.' I usually take it only about once a week when I feel especially bloated (I can usually tell by my fingers when I'ver retained water and know that's what my pain is from). If you notice that you retain water and have subsequent pain, you might as your doctor about having a diuretic available.

[giJ]

Cassandra ~~ The JUDDDD effects should last for 2 weeks, so I wonder if there's something else going on that the inflammation is SO BAD, SO QUICKLY. Either way, I'm sorry you're in pain. That sucks.

Sherrie ~~ Congrats on making it through induction. It really does get easier with time. Even days where I want to jump up and down and have a temper tantrum because I don't WANT to have a DD (umm... like today) the fact is: I'm not hungry. My temper tantrum isn't because I need to eat, it's because of something else that I have to deal with (I'm sick, and whiny, and forgot that I have to spend tomorrow out on a professional training "thing", which I should enjoy, but I'm SICK. And WHINY. And don't WANT to be up at 0600 on a Saturday.)

[PMoon]

Originally Posted by giJ

Cassandra ~~ The JUDDDD effects should last for 2 weeks, so I wonder if there's something else going on that the inflammation is SO BAD, SO QUICKLY. Either way, I'm sorry you're in pain. That sucks.

Right. I'm not sure if the JUDDD effects ever got started tho. I've read a few different accounts saying that it may take a month or so to see significant results. I'd only done it two weeks. But yeah it totally could be anything... Like the rain and the fact that the temperature dropped about fifteen degrees from yesterday.

Lordy I'm gonna be like the old lady who forecasts the weather by how bad her bunions hurt.

[onceNforall]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Sherrie-

Congratulations on getting through 2 weeks at 500 cal DDs!! I think you'll experience "clear sailing" on JUDDD from now on--i.e., even though some of my DDs can be tough, the knowledge that I've done it before always gets me through. As you stick with this, I hope you have a similar experience to mine insofar as the insight I've been getting into my food issues from this WOE has been almost as important as the weight loss (although nothing really trumps the loss

Thanks, Leo! I keep remembering that you say to yourself that you've done a DD and made it through, so therefore you know you can do it again. That philosophy seems to work for me too. I am gaining insight into some of my food issues...especially experiencing true hunger from head hunger so far. I've actually gotten to the point that when my stomach is growling I feel like maybe I'm digging into some fat stores and it really helps get me through it. It's way too early for me to get way overconfident, but I am feeling more and more like this is a WOE I could stick with. Believe me....it's been years since I've tried something and felt like that.

Originally Posted by giJ

Sherrie ~~ Congrats on making it through induction. It really does get easier with time. Even days where I want to jump up and down and have a temper tantrum because I don't WANT to have a DD (umm... like today) the fact is: I'm not hungry. My temper tantrum isn't because I need to eat, it's because of something else that I have to deal with (I'm sick, and whiny, and forgot that I have to spend tomorrow out on a professional training "thing", which I should enjoy, but I'm SICK. And WHINY. And don't WANT to be up at 0600 on a Saturday.)

I so know what you mean!!! Wednesday I was in such a vile mood and wanted to comfort myself with food so badly...very difficult DD, but I completed it successfully and really felt like that was a step in the right direction for me. Usually I don't stop long enough to realize I'm eating from my emotions, not cause I'm hungry. Lots of introspection going on with this WOE. I'm excited!!

[Leo41]

Our Bill

I'm sure many of your have benefited from Bill's postings recently, so I was very disturbed when I received a PM from him last evening to tell me that he was leaving the boards. He asked me to share this with all of you.

He copied to me a "warning" he had received from the board's administrators about an 'inappropriate' post of his because it was 'rude' to the original poster. I don't know the thread, but included was a copy of his post.

I was appalled because there was NOTHING offensive at all in the post. He seemed to be responding to someone who was complaining about lack of weight loss on Atkins inducation, but who was eating pasta and peanut butter. Bill's comment was that perhaps the problem was that those were not induction foods and the poster might benefit from sticking to the plan as written (not his exact words). As usual, Bill's post was generous and accurate. Nothing could possibly be construed as 'rude' (to me at least).

I told him that I wondered whether the original poster had complained because I could find nothing at all offensive in what he said. It seemed to me that whoever is administering the board was totally out of line in sending Bill that 'warning.'

I also encouraged him to stay with us, not only because he contributes so much, but also because I'm concerned about him. It's so important to have support on the journey, and I find these boards invaluable for support.

He did not respond to my suggestion that he at least stay with us on JUDDD.

Since he asked me to share his situation with all of you, if any of you want to PM him about this, please feel free.

[PMoon]

Thank you for the heads up, Leo. This is very upsetting to say the least.

[Whitlin']

So, just a warning about rudeness?

No, he absolutely shouldn't leave (exclamation point, exclamation point).

That is a matter of opinion ONLY and anyone/everyone has differences of opinion. It is a ponderable question : "What is rude?"

It's tough that it is an administrator who thinks so, but Leo's consideration of the post in question (as an experienced poster here) makes one wonder if the wrong poster within the lineup of responses was warned (I can't imagine where the thread is and haven't read it, btw). It takes lots of time and thankless work to administrate a board, and the pace here is fast, so mistakes could be made.

The bottom line for me is that a warning about rudeness in the opinion of one person does not change the FACT that Bill's input is greatly appreciated on this site and everyone assumes he will come back. So... ...

You are , Bill