July JUDDDD / Alternate Day Diet 2009

[Dovelette]

Leo I've heard of the "food combining" rules mentioned above as well, and it's a specific sort of diet, not like LC where you WANT to have some fat or protein to slow insulin response. It's like Somersizing I think, sort of.

[dasiey]

Originally Posted by Dovelette

Are you tracking both your UDs and DDs? Just like with LC carb creep, I would imagine "calorie creep" can happen pretty easily with JUDDD, both on UDs and DDs.

I know it's slow, but you've only got 10lbs to goal, and they always say those last pounds are the hardest and slowest to lose, right? Might just be "normal" or "typical."

very true it could be. But I always count calories on dds. I even do wf most of them. Buttttttt on my uds I slide sometimes. Dr. J says on dds stay as Low as you can. so thats what I try to do.

[dasiey]

Originally Posted by weasel!

Hi dasiey, would need lots more detail about your situation to have any meaningful advice.

does the above help at all.

[spiralsky]

jem51 - I'm also interested in the healing aspects you've heard about with JUDDD... off the top of my head, I heard from the doctor himself it's very effective with asthma, even in the first few days. The other things I can think of that are briefly mentioned on the site are: it's an anti-inflammatory diet? Does it help with things like arthritis? He says that it's anti-oxidative, so it helps with disease prevention... And not sure where this is on his site or in the book, but there is something about its increasing insulin sensitivity, so in that way it could be very healing.

OnceNforall - hey, I had another high calorie day yesterday too. And DD for me today too. But I feel that something is beginning to click about the UDs, finally. Simple, I know, but I'm realizing mentally that I do need to stay within my calorie limits on UDs... if I reach it early in the day, then I'm done for the day. A cheat once a week is fine, but on a regular basis, I'm gearing up to stay within my calorie limit...

I checked my calories on the site again, with moderate exercise I'm recommended at 2200 calories, and with heavy exercise, 2400. I'm exercising a lot now that I have cardio equipment at home, so I'm going to try to keep it 2200-2400 calories on UDs. Last night was not bad at all, not eating after cutting myself off late afternoon, so I will just do whatever I have to do on UDs to keep it within my limits, in order to take some weight off Actually, I may like not eating after 6 or 7 pm as a habit, and that too would be a good way to keep my calories under control.

It has taken a while to sink in. DDs are getting a lot easier for me now too, so what everyone has said about DDs getting easier is becoming true for me. And with the habit of DDs gradually building up, I'm beginning to find it's easier to turn down food if I'm at my limit on UDs. At first it was hard because the fast/feast mentality, but the DDs are starting to make it easier (I think). Less fast/feast, easier to moderate, but it's just baby steps.

[spiralsky]

Originally Posted by Leo41

By the way, I"m also curious where you get these rules from. The reason I ask is that I've read the opposite--i.e., when eating fruit to always combine it with a protein to lessen the effect on blood sugar. That's why some people spread peanut butter on an apple, for example.

There are a few food combining philosophies... Hays, Fit For Life, the Kensington Diet. It's kind of an obscure little diet/nutrition niche. Somercizing is a type of food combining but she twists it around and combines dairy (protein) with carbs, as long as the dairy is low-fat, so this breaks the classic food combining rules.

Regarding the fruit - it's practically pre-digested, and passes through the stomach within 20-30 minutes or so. If you combine it with a bit of peanut butter or eat it after dinner, it will sit in your stomach and ferment somewhat, which isn't really what you want and is why some people have problems eating fruit. But fructose in fresh fruit is quite a bit different than sugar and starch, it doesn't cause peaks and valleys, crashes and cravings...

The rule on fruit and its digestibility when eaten alone is actually referred to in Sugarbusters, which isn't a food combining book. HTH

[jem51]

i've done so much reading so not sure where it comes from but on the down days which are severely restricted calories, you can get the same bump in growth type hormone as you will w fasting or IF. i'm sure the 'skinny gene' is in the same category but since weight loss sells, it makes sense to use that term.
i am unsure whether you can maintain the benefit if your UD's are carby, sugary food....
anyway, eating those extremes would be such a roller coaster ride that it would not be worth it in my opinion.

i am, happily, a lc' er but would still like to see more of a healing from the damage i did to my body as a vegetarian (the gamut). i seem to maintain a certain level of health but still feel that i could be feeling better.
so i've been looking around.....did a few days of paleo but when you give up dairy what's left? more nuts, fruits, vegies which made me very gassy and kicked my IBS symptoms into gear.....not good.

[Dovelette]

Originally Posted by dasiey

very true it could be. But I always count calories on dds. I even do wf most of them. Buttttttt on my uds I slide sometimes. Dr. J says on dds stay as Low as you can. so thats what I try to do.

Maybe try following the 20% rule and upping your calories a bit on your DDs so that it's actually 20%, and lower your calories on UDs so that you don't go over your limit?

[weasel!]

Originally Posted by jem51

....
so i tried a DD and it was somewhat difficult since i was hungry most of the day (went w the mini meals), then the next day it seemed that i could not erase that hunger.
it took a full day to feel that i had eaten enough.
this still sounds good to me and i wonder how you've all gotten past the pitfalls....i see some have gone w IF on the DD. so what else?
will i adjust over a short while?
i would love to see a few menus posted just to see what foods and schedules different peop have found doable.
...

hey vesna, this sounds like the perfect plan for you.

Hi, jem! Once again we find ourselves on the same thread, eh?

I have also noticed the phenomenon where it the DD hunger seems to linger into the following UD. I've learned not to overcompensate by trying to eat it away, because then I find I've skipped all the way past satisfied and straight into uncomfortably stuffed. Now it's just something I observe and don't try to change, like a butterfly flitting by.

Here's my public ****** where I'm recording all my DD food. It's not necessarily listed in the order in which it was consumed.

****** Free Calorie Counter and Diet Journal:*Public Journal

On DDs I'm keeping macro ratios around 65%-70% fat, with carbs coming only from low-starch veggies. And the occasional chip or fry that I find floating around me. I've posted more details elsewhere on this thread.

Most commonly I have 2 HB eggs and a big garden salad with homemade dressing. The dressing is about 2/3 OO, 1/3 vinegar (red wine or ACV or whatever), salt and seasonings. Usually I have one of the eggs around 11 and the second sliced into the salad around 1 or 2 pm.

Originally Posted by Dovelette

I think that (like I think Leo said, and I know peanutte said in other threads) the reason we stall can definitely be from the calories we're eating from fat, as in too many...
... I know there are multiple reasons that JUDDD works but I do think the calorie restriction is a big part of it. I think that's what allows us to eat more carbs, or at least me.

Just for the record, I disagree with both these statements. But that's OK!

[jem51]

thanks vesna. that really helps.
and i was wondering about fat. we are in agreement about that. i was thinking the only way to do a DD is to be pretty much fat free....that may be part of the hunger.

as i read what the CR peop eat and realize how low fat vegetarian they seem to be, it just scares me since that is exactly what put me in ill health.
fat and protein are so essential for cell formation and repair, nerve/brain function, hormonal health.....
again, just my opinion.

[onceNforall]

Regarding the eating fruit by itself vs with protein....when I saw a diabetic nutritionist (insulin resistant), the one thing she emphasized was not eating fruit alone...always combine with protein (due to blood glucose spikes).

Well, DD #5 is completed and successful at 506 calories. Had a large Egg Beater omelet with spinach, mushrooms and LF cheddar and very satisfying. Now I drink herbal tea the rest of the night and probably go to bed early again...only thing that works for me!

[weasel!]

Originally Posted by jem51

thanks vesna. that really helps.
and i was wondering about fat. we are in agreement about that. i was thinking the only way to do a DD is to be pretty much fat free....that may be part of the hunger.

as i read what the CR peop eat and realize how low fat vegetarian they seem to be, it just scares me since that is exactly what put me in ill health.
fat and protein are so essential for cell formation and repair, nerve/brain function, hormonal health.....
again, just my opinion.

Absolutely! With everything you and I have learned about the importance of dietary fat, I will never have it any other way. I don't know what Dr. J. himself has to say about it -- I haven't read the book yet -- but no lowfat WOE for me.

[Leo41]

Sherrie & Spiralsky-

I guess we're in two different places with the fruit issue. I don't believe that fruit is a 'different' kind of sugar that won't cause insulin/glucose issues because I revere Dr. Richard Bernstein, and he is very, very strict about fruit for diabetics for exactly that reason. That's why the conventional wisdom that Sherrie got is to always eat fruit with protein. I've even heard that for consuming carbs in general--i.e., eat with protein.

Perhaps for someone with no insulin issues, fruit alone is best? I know that if I have fruit (which I love, by the way) for breakfast--alone, just fruit, I'm starving within an hour, so it certainly causes a spike for me. Since anything more than 10 carbs at one time causes problems for me, that eliminates most fruit, except in miniscule portions.

But perhaps for a normal, healthy person it's best to eat fruit alone, as in the food combining system.

[Trishagrrl]

Good Evening JUDDD'ers...

Just a quick check in for me. I've been gone all weekend. I ended up with Friday UD, Saturday MD, Sunday BIG UD. I've lately been on a Sun, T, Th rotation for my DD. I'm going to alter that this week and do MWF so I don't end up with another MD or UD tomorrow. I'm also going to attempt to resist the draw of the scale tomorrow morning so I don't have to see the full damage of the last 3 days.

Hope everyone has a great start to their week! :-)

[Dovelette]

Today is my first DD on a weight lifting day. Not sure how I didn't manage this before, I think I must have alternated my lifting days. So DD #8 is an experiment for me I must eat post workout, a protein shake at least, so I'm doing that now. We'll see how the day progresses...if it turns out I can't do it then today will be an UD and tmw will be a DD and I'll just always need to make my MWF UDs and my TR DDs and then another DD on the weekend, and one MD. Or F an MD, Sat an UD and Sun a DD. The MWSa UD/TRSu DD/F MD rotation sounds the best as far as my lifestyle, but just have to play it by ear...gonna try and keep a true rotation if I can!

[dreamer girl]

Down another lb.this morningof course that's after a DD but it's nice to see on the scale I REALLY wanted to go over my calories(500)yesterday,but I kept telling myself "you can have anything you want tomorrow" It really helps to keep me strongI know once I start trying to justify extra food,I'll be DOOMEDRight back to square one I WILL NOT FAIL this time

[onceNforall]

Originally Posted by dreamer girl

Down another lb.this morningof course that's after a DD but it's nice to see on the scale I REALLY wanted to go over my calories(500)yesterday,but I kept telling myself "you can have anything you want tomorrow" It really helps to keep me strongI know once I start trying to justify extra food,I'll be DOOMEDRight back to square one I WILL NOT FAIL this time

Good for you!

I wanted to cave yesterday too, but managed to stay at 506 for a DD. Seems funny to have an UD on a Monday, but I'll enjoy it all the same.

[Dovelette]

*channeling your good DD vibes to get me through today**

[nitenurse]

For what it's worth, since I have to simplify this, I have 2 protein shakes and a large hamburger patty, probably about 6 oz, on my DD. Since I have the hamburger frozen and pop it in a pan I don't have to think about food all day, Hurray!
On the up days, I just eat what I want and watch the carbs, not counting the calories, because again, I need to not think about food all day.
I actually enjoy the DDs because it frees me from obscessing, and I don't seem to get hungry without that.
Gosh I hope this works, I lost about 10 pounds, and seem stuck for a few days. Thanks for the info on MDays, Leo, that might save the few weekends I see coming up that could be difficult.

[Leo41]

Dovelette-

You should be OK with lifting on a DD. I've done my aerobic workout on a DD without any problems, although I usually do it on UDs only.

Weasel-

You may be really disappointed when you read Dr. J's nutritional perspective in the book--I know I was. He seems to just regurgitate the usual stuff about avoiding saturated fat, and he's specifically (and annoyingly) anti-low carb. I just ignored all that stuff because I realize that most of these guys are just trying to stake out their individual dietary "territory" for their plans. Since JUDDD is so "extreme" in some ways, I figured he just wanted to be perfectly 'safe' in his food recommendations and stay with the flow.

[NoSugarShell]

Good Morning Juddders!

I am back from Austin and up 6 lbs. Wow!! I ended up with 3 UD's in a row and big UD's.

Water fast today to get back on track.

[cagmom]

HI Ladies

I'm a portion control & calorie counting gal,who posts over on the PC/CC forum. I gained 8lbs on the cruise.Now I really have to get serious with the Calorie counting WOE. So I'm thinking Seriously of going on the JUDDD.

Now can anyone answer my question about the DD according to the calculator on Dr Johnson's website my UD has 2085c and my DD has 417c. Now I would like to twix the calories count to 570[for 2 shakes B/S & 250c for D] on the DD and than minus 153 to my UD to read 1932. Will that work,or should I follow the exact calories that was on the calculator??????

Thanks in advance as I don't have Dr Johnson's book and what information on the web site isn't exactly clear to me.

[oobladee]

Leo...as I quickly scanned this thread, I can answer a bit on the Food Combining. It is also called the Hollywood diet. If I am right, Suzanne Somers did write a book aboout it, so that's why dovelette (?) thought it was Somersizing!

It has ZERO basis in science of why it would work - the book yadas yadas on about how stomach enzymes cannot diegest this or that with that or this, but it is not true scientifically at all. It worked for me, though! read on:

BTW, I liked it a lot and have recently considered trying it out again! Back in the day, I did lose 20# over 6 months.

So, I was younger - hard telling how much my accelerated years would work against me, b/c on the other hand, I was also 25# less heavy (closer to goal weight which is always harder to drop even a few pounds) when I started that plan so long ago.

Here's what I recall:

*eat fruit only until noon

*dairy must be eaten alone - eaten no closer than 3 hours to other foods.

*meat/eggs & high water veggies together High water: tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, cukes, etc; NO potatoes, corn, avocados)

*grains and all veggies (even corn/potatoes)together

This WOE did work for me...very well. I remember having ice cream for supper - a large bowl...and STILL losing weight, albeit slowly. What else worked for me is another aspect of how my body would be left to non-convention: I really only WANT to eat pasta, bread, potatoes & fruit (read very starchy here), so a lunch of fried potatoes and tomatoes and mayo would suit me just fine on the Hollywood diet.

It also worked for me as I am a social animal - always out to people's houses or lunch or???, so it seemed like I could always adapt very easily depending on my host's meal - the rest of my day could be what I chose. Let's face it, most people serve high starchy stuff!

What I did not like that much was no cheese on most stuff, but I got by. In my mind, cheese is not true dairy as much as it is fat group foods. So, maybe I could get away with eating cheese on meat/eggs with high waters.

What I suspect is that if I try it, at this age, I would not be able to eat a lot of grains and would need to lean toward eating more meat/eggs with high water veggies.

Hmmmm, maybe I will try that again if this Fast 5 and JUDDD stuff does not work for me.

[aim in Fla*working]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Trish-
So glad you got to see your doctor! But please tell me you made a typo because you wrote that he would test FT4, but you didn't mention FT3. That's what's critical, in my opinion, in your fatigue. I've even heard that sometimes endos will add Cytomel onto Armour to get enough T3 for the patient. I hope it's just a typo on your part because if he isn't testing T3, I'd want to know why, if I were you.

Leo...i just went on cytomel with my armour and what a difference...my hands are warm again instead of feeling like ice...I was actually HYPER on armour in every area BUT T3...so I decreased armour to 1 grain (was 3 grains at one point) and added cytomel and WHAT a difference...it I was on T$ meds alone, I think I would be dead. NOT kidding.

[aim in Fla*working]

Originally Posted by NoSugarShell

Good Morning Juddders!

I am back from Austin and up 6 lbs. Wow!! I ended up with 3 UD's in a row and big UD's.

Water fast today to get back on track.

Shell, how much water do you drink on AWFs? I drink 3 liters now...I wondered if it was more ...

[GME]

Hi folks, I am back from vacation and happy to report I held steady (still up from my siggy though ). I didn't try to do any DDs, just ate "regularly." I stayed mostly LC, but had probably one or two "extras" a day (ice cream, baked potato, etc.)

I got a lot of good exercise- hiking, walking and horseback riding- and felt great, even at elevation. Some of our hikes took us to almost 10,000'

I read all the posts last night when we got home (chatty bunch ) but I was pretty rummy and don't remember much now. I'll just go forward from today.

I'm doing a DD today and plan to get back into rotation. I'd like to see the 170s before the end of July (we need a finger crossing smiley).

[Dovelette]

Do you guys that do AWFs ensure that you get some electrolytes on those days? I know the "A" is for "Almost" so I'm hoping there's at least a little electrolyte action. Not meaning to be preachy! Just worried about someone getting very sick. There have been reports of dieters dying from too much PURE water coupled with not eating (the one case I can think of off the top of my head was 4 liters of water in 3 or 4 hours time).

So go on now, lick some salt

[Dovelette]

Hey, anyone seen Remykins? I haven't seen her post in a couple of days...did I miss her saying she was going somewhere? Wondering how her furbaby is...

[Leo41]

Oobladee-

Thanks for all that info. I remember when Suzanne Somers was promoting this, and I almost decided to try it. But I have known for so long that I need to low carb that I didn't want to mess with change. Of course, you lost weight. I think that any plan that involves a healthy change in eating habits would probably result in weight loss. It's like the Hawthorne effect in psychology--a person who is trying to lose weight will inevitably lower calories and eat less even if the plan doesn't call for less food because he/she is suddenly so focused on food choices--and will credit the plan rather than the reduced food intake with the loss.

If people don't have other medical issues, this food combining might work for them, but I need to eat as though I'm diabetic to avoid becoming diabetic, so I'm permanently committed to low carb as my WOE.

One reason that I know JUDDD is helping me is because I went from eating strictly low carb, but not being able to restrict calories sufficiently, to JUDDD. And while I was stalled on standard low carb, I've been able to lose with JUDDD--so far [keeping fingers crossed].

Aim--

I know exactly what you mean about Cytomel! My T3 was off the charts (low) when my endo finally prescribed it (I must have quit converting T4 very suddenly), and the change was amazing. I had been taking 3-hour naps and still unable to function, and I gained weight almost instantly. It's just amazing what that little hormone does for us. In fact, I suspect that my T3 is dropping, and I have a blood draw scheduled for tomorrow because I can't take any chances with that little hormone.

[GME]

Originally Posted by Dovelette

Do you guys that do AWFs ensure that you get some electrolytes on those days? I know the "A" is for "Almost" so I'm hoping there's at least a little electrolyte action. Not meaning to be preachy! Just worried about someone getting very sick. There have been reports of dieters dying from too much PURE water coupled with not eating (the one case I can think of off the top of my head was 4 liters of water in 3 or 4 hours time).

So go on now, lick some salt

If it's hot or I run I usually drink a Powerade Zero. Other than that I drink tea and coffee. I don't know if there is any electrolyte action (that's funny ) there though.

The Powerade Zero is quite tasty BTW and probably is a good idea for fasting. I'll be sure to drink one on DDs.

Thanks for the reminder Dove!

[NoSugarShell]

Originally Posted by aim in Fla*working

Shell, how much water do you drink on AWFs? I drink 3 liters now...I wondered if it was more ...

I don't really keep track, I just drink water all day long. I have 1 cup of coffee in the morning with stevia and then water the rest of the day.