JUDDDD / Alternate Day Diet April 2009

[homestretch]

mammapo*** I love your post about weighing. I went through a lot of the same things myself and I still struggle with whether or not I should weigh. I hate letting that little box determine my worth but unfortunately it is a tool that can be quite valuable.

rhlong***Welcome, I am new to this WOE and I hope you like it as much as I do!

[homestretch]

Originally Posted by jgw

Redeemed I remember when I was lowcarbing, (very low carb intake) and I would get so cold, I had to wrap up in blankets while my family was thinking that I was crazy. This was in the summer. I realize I had to eat a few carbs and after I did I felt better and warmed up. I usually ate a slice of bread or some crackers. She may have to start JUDDDing after the induction period is over, when she can increase her carb intake.
This is just my experience, someone else may help you more because I don't eat low-carb anymore!
Later!

This is me! I never connected it with eating low carb. I just thought it was because I did not have my big ol layer of fat keeping me warm. That would explain why I freeze every time I go back to induction. Thanks for the insight!

[Ilpirata]

This is me! I never connected it with eating low carb. I just thought it was because I did not have my big ol layer of fat keeping me warm. That would explain why I freeze every time I go back to induction. Thanks for the insight!

My mom has always insisted that it is normal to be colder when body is in fat burning mode. Our temps are lower while we are losing weight. Of course, my mom is a hippy not a doctor so...

(i've always taken it as the gospel lol)

[CrystalPistol]

Ok.. no big deal. Chewing on your arm is acceptable behavior on the first DD right?

I just got really hungry

[Redeemed]

It seems that if I have fewer calories on DD - say between 350 - 400, I am less hungry on UD. Have any of you experienced this? Also on another website discussion board people on JUDD are noticing their fingernails growing faster. Just thought I'd throw that one in for an FYI.

[mammapo]

Originally Posted by homestretch

AMEN!

I started to ignore the stall posts. Again and again I would share the fact that I stalled for 7 months, YES 7 MONTHS during my weight loss and it got ignored because people in that mindset do not want the cold hard truth. How many times have you seen, "I lost 9 pounds on induction and now it is week 3 and I am stalled or on a plateau"? This is a journey and I learned a lot about myself during those 7 months. The fact that I stuck it out still makes me feel amazing! I think that kind of thinking says diet and not lifestyle change.

You, my dear, are an inspiration to us all!

[Leo41]

Redeemed-

About your friend--I can't comment about feeling cold because I'm ALWAYS cold. In fact, that was the first test of my hypothyroidism, a lower than normal body temperature. But I'm not sure about the energy issue. During my first DDs I kind of pampered myself and didn't try to be especially active. NOW I probably have more energy on DDs, certainly more than before JUDDD. It may be as Kisha mentioned, that your friend should try whole food on DDs rather than shakes--or at least a big salad along with the shakes. That might help.

[mammapo]

Originally Posted by Ilpirata

My mom has always insisted that it is normal to be colder when body is in fat burning mode. Our temps are lower while we are losing weight. Of course, my mom is a hippy not a doctor so...

(i've always taken it as the gospel lol)

She's actually right. It is normal.

Dr. J addresses the coldness issue, too - we actually create heat while digesting food. Less heat= less warmth. Less food=less heat.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

do what i do - suit up, grab and extra layer, and cheer because it means you're working the system!

[mammapo]

Originally Posted by Kamicryze

Ok.. no big deal. Chewing on your arm is acceptable behavior on the first DD right?

I just got really hungry

search mammapo and 'my arm'

you'll see that was my mantra the first few weeks. LOL

[Maryposa]

Originally Posted by vanilla_latte

Hi all,

Up Day for me today. I went ahead and weighed today and am only up 1 lb. from my carbier weekend (had a DD yesterday). After reading Naomi's excellent post, I might try to follow her babysteps. My only problem is that even when I have managed to not weigh for a couple/few weeks, the scale doesn't change. I am that slow of a loser.

Maryposa - you said something about eating half of your BMR. I can't go back and refresh my memory, but are you eating at, above, or over your BMR?

Well I have concluded that the BMR calculator = BS in my case. I have pretty consistently eaten about half what it said my BMR is for over a year and maintained if not VLC and lost a little if VLC. Actually, I gained on that on high carb (tried it two weeks to see what would happen) and took 10 more weeks to recover from that gain.

[Maryposa]

naomi, I don't have much time to post, but I wanted to say I appreciate you sharing your journey. I want to share a couple of things that may not have made it clear what I am dealing with...1. It is not a week-to-week "not seeing the big picture but slowly losing" case with me, I have been fluctuating between high 280 and lower 290s for 10 months or more. There was a "roadblock" thrown in there that probably took my already messed up metabolism and threw in hormonal imbalance on top of that (I unexpectedly got pregnant, then lost the pregnancy). I haven;t been able to get back down to the weight I was the day I found out I was pregnant, which was 279. I gained up to almost 300 while pregnant and just after surgery (D&C). I was pregnant with twins and gained all that weight in a fairly short amount of time trying to keep up with the calorie and protein recommendation. After I learned of the loss, as you might imagine, it took me a little while to get back to a very strict way of eating (Which is what it takes for me to lose) due to emotional healing which needed to happen first. I lost 9 pounds within a couple of weeks post-surgery, and haven't been able to get the scale to budge since. I also went back on the BCP. 2. I DO have a timeline which causes stress, and it has nothing to do with how I will look for a certain event. It has to do with taking a trip to Africa the end of this year (my husband is from Kenya) and wanting to fit in the plane seat fairly comfortably (its a VERY long flight), deal with the heat ok (december is summertime there) and travel the mountainside (Where he grew up) by foot when needed and not pass out. Also, more importantly, sometime after we return (some time next year) we are going to try to get pregnant again. I want to lose as much weight as possible before then to try to decrease my chances of gestational diabetes and hypertension. I am 31, so I don't have time on my side and don't feel comfortable saying "the weight will come off eventually if I give it time".

[Leo41]

Maryposa-

I can certainly sympathize with your problems losing, and I fully understand your goals. A long plane ride when you can barely fit in the seat is torture--which I know from painful experience.

Since you're so young (I'm post-menopausal) have you had any tests to determine whether your body is resistant to weight loss for hormonal reasons? I'm hypothyroid, and with my age, I have to severely restrict calories. I've seen how when my hormone levels are out of whack, I not only can't lose, I gain on the same foods. Since you're young and having difficulty, I am concerned that there might be some underlying reason that you're having difficulty--e.g., your BCPs.

I also agree with you about the BMR. According to the "charts" I can lose weight on 1200-1400 calories a day, which seems reasonable. But I need to eat <1000 cal a day to lose about a pound a week. My endo confirms this; my metabolism is that slow. This can be frustrating, but I was encouraged by something I read on these boards from someone familiar with AA. Apparently, there's a comment in their materials that reads something like "The most common misconception of alcoholics is that they can eventually drink like other men."

All my life, I've suffered from the delusion that I SHOULD be able to eat like other people. But in life, you have to deal with the cards you're dealt--and mine has been a life-long struggle with obesity. Because of my "delusion," I often ignored the struggle and wallowed in my obesity. Now I'm dealing with it by eating in a way that works for ME.

Can you find out what works for you? But first I think it's important to be sure that there's not something going on in your body that is thwarting your efforts. The problem is finding a doctor who is willing and able to test because from my life experience, most doctors see fat and decide (unconsciously or not) that the person is lazy and undisciplined and just needs to eat less. My current endo is the first doctor I've ever met who is actually encouraging and helpful in my effort to lose weight.

Sorry if this is too long, but I just wanted to wish you well in achieving your goal and offer some encouragement.

[Clannad]

Good morning everyone! And welcome to all the new JUDDDers!

It is a DD for me and I'm feeling really good about it. I'm drinking lemon water with stevia and it is oh so good.


Boy, this thread is really hoppin'! I'll be back to catch up on the latest.

[jgw]

Hello everyone, Today is a DD for me too.
Later!

[homestretch]

Originally Posted by Ilpirata

My mom has always insisted that it is normal to be colder when body is in fat burning mode. Our temps are lower while we are losing weight. Of course, my mom is a hippy not a doctor so...

(i've always taken it as the gospel lol)

Often I prefer a mother's wisdom to a MD's education.

[homestretch]

Originally Posted by mammapo

You, my dear, are an inspiration to us all!

Thank YOU!

[homestretch]

Today is DD and my daughter's birthday. Tell me I can do this. I will not eat much until her birthday dinner which I am cooking (she wanted roast beef so that is cool). It is that ice cream cake that I really fear.

[snaggle]

Mammapo, I really think what you said in your post is very insightful and I totally agree with the concept that we need to embrace delayed gratification if we are to be successful. I do have one issue with the concept of infrequent weighing and that is because I associate it with when I am "off the wagon". I know for myself that when I start to cheat and fall away from my plan, I stop weighing. It is a stupid denial thing, like if I don't know the number, it might not be real. So my issue with only weighing once a month is that I don't have the accountability factor. I guess what I am saying is that it scares me a little to NOT weigh.

[Maryposa]

Originally Posted by Leo41

The problem is finding a doctor who is willing and able to test because from my life experience, most doctors see fat and decide (unconsciously or not) that the person is lazy and undisciplined and just needs to eat less. My current endo is the first doctor I've ever met who is actually encouraging and helpful in my effort to lose weight.

ITA and yes that has been my experience too. I have to wait until May 1st to make an apt because I switched Gen Practitioners and any changes to my insurance are not affective until the 1st of the following month.

[Leo41]

Good luck with the new doctor, Maryposa. Aren't health insurance companies wonderful:-)

[Leo41]

On frequent weighing--

I fully understand the association of not weighing with being off plan, but I think having a specific timeframe for weighing would be different.

My experience--when I was 14, I went on a diet on my own and lost 80 lbs in 7 months (from 205-125). In those days (1955), no one had heard of "low carb," and what I knew about dieting I got from my mother's women's magazines. The advice was to cut calories (of course) AND weigh no more frequently than once a month. The former I did by just eating less and counting calories carefully. The latter was easy because we didn't own a scale, so I went to the neighborhood drugstore to weigh myself on the first day of each month. Since I was losing about 8-9 lbs a month, those weigh-ins were really inspirational and kept me on track. After the first month, I always wanted a similar result, and I knew that I'd need to stay on my program to get it. That was enough to keep me honest.

Fast forward to today, and my situation is very different. I'm post-menopausal and hypothyroid with the resulting very, very slow metabolism. I spent 2008 losing and gaining the same ten pounds--until the end of the year when I was "saved" by JUDDD. Now I'm losing slowly, but I need to weigh weekly to make sure that I continue to lose. It's so easy to get off track (overconfidence!), AND one of the first hints that my meds are not optimized is a gain (I once gained 10 lbs in two weeks when my T3 tanked). My point is that now in my life I have to be more vigilent, and I think it's better to weigh weekly.

However, I also think that some of the young things that post about "stalls" because after losing 12-15 lbs on induction, they only lost a pound in a week would do far better to weigh monthly. They would obsess less over every ounce.

My point is that Naomi is exactly right about the connection between weight loss, weighing, and delayed gratification. However often you weigh, you should have a reason for that choice.

[Ilpirata]

HA! I finally came in under 2000 cals - even after eating TWO TABLESPOONS of peanut butter. Yesterday Totals:

Calories 1,938
Fat 155.6 1,372 71 %
Carbohydrate 36.4 145 7 %
Dietary Fiber 7.9
Protein 103.0 414 21 %

Scale held steady at stat low this morning which is surprising since I usually bounce up after UD.

[CrystalPistol]

Good morning people! Thanks for the warm welcome. I managed to eat 500 calories ONLY yesterday. The morning and midday was easy. Afternoon was hell. Evening was just okay. But I feel really empowered!

I agree with all the posts about not weighing every day. HOWEVER, since it was the morning after my first DD, I was too curious. Plus, I had ALOT of Chinese food the day before my DD, and I knew my weight the morning of my DD was so high from the sodium. Anyway, I'm -4 lbs from yesterday morning. I'm taking it, but also standing FIRM on not weighing again for 8 days. Even if my loss in 8 days is the same as today, that's a great start!

So, I'm enjoying the UD, but not ravenous like I thought I would be. I know many of you say you're just not that hungry on the UD. Me too! I didn't believe you guys. LOL. The thing I struggle with is I keep thinking, "Should I have this, or this?" Like it's a "last meal" or something. I keep reminding myself that whatever I DON'T choose, I can have in 2 days. SHEESH!

So let me ask you guys a question. What are your fave things to eat on a DD?

[CrystalPistol]

Originally Posted by Ilpirata

HA! I finally came in under 2000 cals - even after eating TWO TABLESPOONS of peanut butter. Yesterday Totals:

Calories 1,938
Fat 155.6 1,372 71 %
Carbohydrate 36.4 145 7 %
Dietary Fiber 7.9
Protein 103.0 414 21 %

Scale held steady at stat low this morning which is surprising since I usually bounce up after UD.

Sweet! Not only did you get your PB fix, but this morning wasn't a gain. I would be looking forward to a loss tomorrow. Good for you!

[NoSugarShell]

Can I join?? I am on the Tweakers thread, but I have been following this thread as well.

Kisha - Awesome, I bet you will see a loss tommorrow!!

Kamicryze - Today, is my 3rd DD. So far, my favorite things to eat have been a 2% fage yogurt w/PB2 = 155 calories and very filling. I don't like the 0%, but it has alot less calories. Then for dinner I have been having an egg cream shake which is around 300 calories. I use 2 eggs, 1/2 & 1/2, cocoa, cream cheese, and whipped cream on top. VERY filling! Usually, my day ends around 490 calories or so. I also like to have 1 fried egg and 4 pieces of bacon for dinner.

I am open to new DD suggestions, but this has worked for me so far.

Michelle

[Ilpirata]

So let me ask you guys a question. What are your fave things to eat on a DD?

I try to do a liquid fast on my three down days but if I do eat it is usually:

two scrambled eggs with one cup of broccoli OR
a big leafy salad with 1 cup Trader Joe's BBQ Chicken Terryaki & 1 cup green beans with a dressing I make out of TJs light parmesan dressing mixed with balsamic vinegar.
Other things I have eaten are 4 TJs turkey meatballs (200 cals for 4) over leafy green salad with above dressing.
I also have eaten fresh raw veg with TJ's spicy hummus (50cals for 2 TBS)

On liquid fast days I have coffee with 1/2 & 1/2 or whole milk and sometimes the "Pure Protein" canned shakes from TJs (100 Cals 4g carbs)

[Leo41]

Kisha-Great work on your UD. I know you've struggled to get under 2000 for the UD, and I know it will show on the scale!

It's odd but I've posted before that I'm beginning to find DDs easier than UDs--in terms of controlling calories. Perhaps because there are so few to deal with on DDs! I've been finding my UD totals creeping upward, but I don't know whether that's because I've been swimming on UDs, and that's been stoking my appetite. I DO know that I have to watch it.

Kamicryze
I began DDs with shakes and still tried to use them to insure that I get enough protein, BUT I'm trying to avoid artificial sweeteners, and I think I do best on real food. I buy those bran crisp crackers from Netrition, and they're 12 cal each, 2 carbs. I like my morning coffee (black), so on a DD (like today), I'll usually spray my pan with PAM and fry two eggbeaters (60 cal) and eat them on two crackers for a breakfast under 100 cal., 16g protein. Today at lunch I had an Ostrim stick (80 cal; 14g protein). I was hungry, and later I had about a 1/2 of saurkraut and some boiled radishes (leftovers) with mustard--perhaps 50 cal. total. I try to get under 400 for the day, and I have to allow 50 cal for my supplements (fish oil and GLA that I take for inflammation--arthritis). I drink hot green tea throughout the day, and I find that helps with hunger. I plan to buy more lettuce because one day I chomped on a small head of Romaine that tasted delicious with no dressing; just a little salt for about 70 cal. I also often have fish on DDs. I found a delicious can of sardines packed in olive oil that's just 150 cal. I mash them and have them on my bran crackers. I can get three "meals" from one can for a total of about 200 cal. I've also made some frozen fillet that gives me the calorie count on the bag. If I get hungry, I know that I can make an entire bag of frozen broccoli (I love broccoli) 5 servings for just 100 cal., and that's very filling. But so far, I haven't had to do that. If you play around with things you like, I think you'll be surprised how much you can have on a DD.

[Ilpirata]

Kisha-Great work on your UD. I know you've struggled to get under 2000 for the UD, and I know it will show on the scale!

It's odd but I've posted before that I'm beginning to find DDs easier than UDs--in terms of controlling calories. Perhaps because there are so few to deal with on DDs! I've been finding my UD totals creeping upward, but I don't know whether that's because I've been swimming on UDs, and that's been stoking my appetite. I DO know that I have to watch it.

Thanks Leo, despite my best intentions i don't think I've had a UD under 2000 cals in a coupla months!

I also find DD easier than UD almost... with the caveat being that I find my M, W, Fr DD pretty straight forward. I am only in the house for about two hours on those days and it is so simple to keep the cals where I need them.

[mammapo]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Maryposa-

I can certainly sympathize with your problems losing, and I fully understand your goals. A long plane ride when you can barely fit in the seat is torture--which I know from painful experience.

Since you're so young (I'm post-menopausal) have you had any tests to determine whether your body is resistant to weight loss for hormonal reasons? I'm hypothyroid, and with my age, I have to severely restrict calories. I've seen how when my hormone levels are out of whack, I not only can't lose, I gain on the same foods. Since you're young and having difficulty, I am concerned that there might be some underlying reason that you're having difficulty--e.g., your BCPs.

I also agree with you about the BMR. According to the "charts" I can lose weight on 1200-1400 calories a day, which seems reasonable. But I need to eat <1000 cal a day to lose about a pound a week. My endo confirms this; my metabolism is that slow. This can be frustrating, but I was encouraged by something I read on these boards from someone familiar with AA. Apparently, there's a comment in their materials that reads something like "The most common misconception of alcoholics is that they can eventually drink like other men."

All my life, I've suffered from the delusion that I SHOULD be able to eat like other people. But in life, you have to deal with the cards you're dealt--and mine has been a life-long struggle with obesity. Because of my "delusion," I often ignored the struggle and wallowed in my obesity. Now I'm dealing with it by eating in a way that works for ME.

Can you find out what works for you? But first I think it's important to be sure that there's not something going on in your body that is thwarting your efforts. The problem is finding a doctor who is willing and able to test because from my life experience, most doctors see fat and decide (unconsciously or not) that the person is lazy and undisciplined and just needs to eat less. My current endo is the first doctor I've ever met who is actually encouraging and helpful in my effort to lose weight.

Sorry if this is too long, but I just wanted to wish you well in achieving your goal and offer some encouragement.

AMEN!! i want to ditto this -

Have you ever considered Wilson's Syndrome?

There are so many sub-classic hypotyroid people out there - I'm one of them, and perhaps you are, too.

In my experience (and I come from a veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyy large family in all ways and meanings) the physical hypothyroidism and the emotional food issues often go side by side. Sometimes the emotional food issues were caused by the physical ones - like having been tortured your whole life for being big and not able to lose weight, a person might think 'screw it, if I'm going to suffer as if I overate, I might as well do it!!!

I have found that without treating both sides of the equation there's no real solution to the problem:

healing emotionally doesn't take down the physical barriers to health and weight loss

healing physically doesn't take away the emotional triggers that cause us to overeat.


From what you wrote, I suspect, like me, there's two sides to your equation too, and that the tiny bit of natural defensiveness I see in you is from being unfairly judged over and over and over again that it's all 'emotional and noone ever addressing the physical problems with you or being willing to fully explore.


Don't worry! We're prolly the most understanding support group around - we pretty much ALL on this board have a true underlying physical reason for not being able to lose weight even AFTER trying every single possible weight loss method alive... and plenty of us even after healing through the emotional side of eating!!!!

THis is a very safe place to explore that side. It's also a safe place to explore the emotional connections - because we've mostly dealt with it, or are learning to deal with it, we are supportive and not judgemental. In the 'real world' it's not safe to admit this side, because we're all so busy defending the other side of the equation. But here, we can explore if this is an issue and find support...


okay I'm rambling!!!!

Anywhoodles. All that to say - get checked out, and not by a GP either. Insist on an endo. specialist.

Originally Posted by snaggle

Mammapo, I really think what you said in your post is very insightful and I totally agree with the concept that we need to embrace delayed gratification if we are to be successful. I do have one issue with the concept of infrequent weighing and that is because I associate it with when I am "off the wagon". I know for myself that when I start to cheat and fall away from my plan, I stop weighing. It is a stupid denial thing, like if I don't know the number, it might not be real. So my issue with only weighing once a month is that I don't have the accountability factor. I guess what I am saying is that it scares me a little to NOT weigh.

What's infrequent to one would be frequent to another. Weighing in once a week is fine IMO, if you're not a scale addict and if it really is the way you keep accountable.

It's the scale addicts I'm talking to - the ones who weigh daily or twiec daily or... I'm a reformed 3 weigh-a-day-er. So I'm really preaching to them and not addressing the population at large.

Te real question is "Does this contribute to my mental health?" if no, then something needs to be adjusted. It seems you're fine, so no adjustment necessary!!!

Originally Posted by Leo41

On frequent weighing--

I fully understand the association of not weighing with being off plan, but I think having a specific timeframe for weighing would be different...
My point is that Naomi is exactly right about the connection between weight loss, weighing, and delayed gratification. However often you weigh, you should have a reason for that choice.

Yes, Yes, amen, and YES!!!! You nailed it.

[vanilla_latte]

Originally Posted by Maryposa

Well I have concluded that the BMR calculator = BS in my case. I have pretty consistently eaten about half what it said my BMR is for over a year and maintained if not VLC and lost a little if VLC. Actually, I gained on that on high carb (tried it two weeks to see what would happen) and took 10 more weeks to recover from that gain.

Thanks, Maryposa. I have mixed feelings about the BMR thing!

I can certainly relate to your weight loss struggles. It seems my body "likes" this weight I'm at and I always seem to float just above or below it. Now, if I were at maintenance that would be awesome. It is truly a struggle.

I'm on a DD today. Egg cream for breakfast, Flax-n-Snax for lunch, not sure what's for dinner just yet.

Now .... did someone say something about eating an arm off on a DD? I'm there.