JohnsonAlternateDayDiet/JUDDD Jan 2009 - Page 21

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:03 PM

[COLOR=black]OK, [/COLOR]
Here's her after picture!!!
Doesn't she look terrific!!!!!

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:05 PM

70 pounds lighter!!

wallaby · 01-23-2009, 12:09 PM

Kisha, your slow and steady progress is really something. You're doing great.

My day started out badly, in a wicked PMS mood, which - I convinced myself - only chocolate could cure. So I went to the fancy chocolate place in town, carefully picked out 4 lovely dark chocolates, bought them, and walked out of the shop. But before stuffing them into my gullet, I decided to stop in a nearby clothing boutique . (I hate shopping btw, but I like nice clothes - especially when they are on clearance and in my price range)

Good thing I stopped! I tried on a few things and VOILA. Turns out I have dropped 2 sizes in the last month! So I sure as heck wasn't going to let a little chocolate craving derail me after figuring that out.

In the end I let myself eat one small piece (a dark chocolate salt caramel, yum) and gave the rest to my DH. He thinks I'm sweet. Little does he know....
I think I can still swing a MD or even a DD today! YAY. (In addition to the shrinkage, think just getting out and talking to people - people I don't work with or live with - helped my mood tremendously.)

wallaby · 01-23-2009, 12:12 PM

WOW Whirlybird, your friend looks amazing! Really just 3 mos on this plan (water fast and 1 meal) ? I'm doubly inspired and will keep on keeping on!

maizenbluebabe · 01-23-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHIRLYBIRD

70 pounds lighter!!

SHE NEEDS TO WRITE A BOOK! hOW AMAZING, AND HOW INSPIRING.

And thanks so much, WhirleyBird for persevering and getting the "after" pic posted for us all to see--it is more convincing than anything I have seen so far that it CAN be done with the right combination of person and plan.

She certainly glows with good health and energy in this photo

Yes, I know it wouldnt work for everyone, but it worked for her and that is something we can all appreciate knowing no matter what our own individual needs are.

maizenbluebabe · 01-23-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallaby

Kisha, your slow and steady progress is really something. You're doing great.

My day started out badly, in a wicked PMS mood, which - I convinced myself - only chocolate could cure. So I went to the fancy chocolate place in town, carefully picked out 4 lovely dark chocolates, bought them, and walked out of the shop. But before stuffing them into my gullet, I decided to stop in a nearby clothing boutique . (I hate shopping btw, but I like nice clothes - especially when they are on clearance and in my price range)

Good thing I stopped! I tried on a few things and VOILA. Turns out I have dropped 2 sizes in the last month! So I sure as heck wasn't going to let a little chocolate craving derail me after figuring that out.

In the end I let myself eat one small piece (a dark chocolate salt caramel, yum) and gave the rest to my DH. He thinks I'm sweet. Little does he know....
I think I can still swing a MD or even a DD today! YAY. (In addition to the shrinkage, think just getting out and talking to people - people I don't work with or live with - helped my mood tremendously.)

OH YES!

Great work, wallaby!

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallaby

WOW Whirlybird, your friend looks amazing! Really just 3 mos on this plan (water fast and 1 meal) ? I'm doubly inspired and will keep on keeping on!

Yep, it's the God's honest truth!
She is such an inspiration for me, you have no idea!!!

She's a paramedic and works pretty much 12 hour days so there's not much extra time for the gym so this was all about the diet and working her normal job, not spending hours pumping iron or running.

Not saying we shouldn't work out. I think we should all do a little extra to help burn these calories off but the diet did the majority of the work for her.

Dark Chocolate Salt Caramels? Sounds DIVINE!!!
Congratulations with the clothing sizes!!! 2 Sizes in a month! You are Rockin right along!!! Keep doing what your doing cause it's working!

Leo41 · 01-23-2009, 12:33 PM

I'm a little conflicted because I sense a movement in this thread to "modifications" of JUDDD to extreme dieting, and I don't think that's healthy.

Perhaps this is just sour grapes because I know that I can't do anything extreme at my age and with my medical conditions, but as I read, the water fast is becoming the gold standard, and I know that will push many people into binging if they try to follow it.

It's the same with the one meal a day, both UD and DD. In his book Dr. J always recommends spreading calories throughout the day. He even talks about sipping shakes a couple of ounces at a time rather than drinking an entire one as a meal replacement.

I know that IF and fasting works for many people, but it is not the basis of this WOE, and I think that a thread labeled JUDDD should try to focus on the principles outlined by Dr. J rather than individual modifications.

As Kisha has pointed out, newbies can be confused, but I think that even experienced JUDDDers might feel pressured into water fasting, etc.

We all know that the tendency to want to lose weight FAST is to be resisted rather than indulged because fast weight loss is not especially healthy, but I'm reading a trend toward focusing on that. (Again, this is from someone who CAN'T lose weight fast, so I am biased in this area.)

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maizenbluebabe

SHE NEEDS TO WRITE A BOOK! hOW AMAZING, AND HOW INSPIRING.

And thanks so much, WhirleyBird for persevering and getting the "after" pic posted for us all to see--it is more convincing than anything I have seen so far that it CAN be done with the right combination of person and plan.

She certainly glows with good health and energy in this photo

Yes, I know it wouldnt work for everyone, but it worked for her and that is something we can all appreciate knowing no matter what our own individual needs are.

She has talked about writing a memoir about her life. She has been through so much with her job. She was in a terrible accident that broke her back and neck at the same time and she has come through fine with only some digestive issues to deal with. It's a long story but she almost died and then her diet success is so inspirational.
I'll let her know you said that. Maybe she'll be encouraged enough to finally sit down and put it on paper.

OceanDreaming · 01-23-2009, 12:34 PM

WTG Kisha! Woo hoo!! One-derland here you come! I hope to be right behind you!

Today was a weigh day for me...211! Yippee! I've been hovering around 214-218 for MONTHS and finally I'm moving downward. And honestly, I haven't been all that good on my up days at all. Imagine if I would be? That's a total of 7 pounds in 3 weeks, which for me is amazing. Kisha, my stats are almost identical to yours and have been watching you closely for weeks (not in a creepy kind of way, mind you ) I wonder about my thyroid as well, must go have that checked soon.

As for publishing and resizing photos (someone asked, can't remember sorry) you can open a Photobucket account for free and do all that stuff. Really easy.

Whirly, you're friend does look amazing. And you've lost 14 lbs already--awesome and congrats!

Zer, come on in the water is fine!

Today is DD for me. The very BEST part of having a DD is that the UD is right behind it! Absolutely no fear of extreme dieting at my house. I live for UD!

Have a great weekend fellow JUDDD-ites!

maizenbluebabe · 01-23-2009, 12:43 PM

you know, Leo 41 has a very interesting and valid point here and I really respect where she is coming from. and think we need to pay close attention to what she is saying. Actually, she has made this same point before several times--as have others--in a very tactful way, but sadly, we just havent been listening to her

In view of the fact that some of us have strayed from the classic JUDDD program, I wonder if this would be a good time to start another thread completely and stop cluttering up this thread with our goofy little tweaks and leave the JUDDD thread to those who really want to concentrate on Dr Johnson's message in a very serious way. I hate the thought that the "tweakers" are making this an uncomfortable thread for members like Leo41 and others like her.

She's right--it doesnt seem fair for us to be constantly bringing in other ways of approaching intermittent eating . Also, I realize that these new or different ideas break up the continuity of this really good plan, but it also seems a bit restrictive to not feel free to bring up other possibilities for consideration if someone is stalled or looking for other creative ways to cut or adjust calories and/or carbs

If anyone is interested in moving to another thread of our own, I will start one, probably entitled something like Alternate Day Tweakers & Fasters. If anyone thinks this is a good idea, let me know and we can move to a broader look at the question of calorie restriction which can makes room for varied fasts and also Dr Herring's 5 hour window concept as well as keeping some of the excellent Johnson ideas.

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo41

I'm a little conflicted because I sense a movement in this thread to "modifications" of JUDDD to extreme dieting, and I don't think that's healthy.

Perhaps this is just sour grapes because I know that I can't do anything extreme at my age and with my medical conditions, but as I read, the water fast is becoming the gold standard, and I know that will push many people into binging if they try to follow it.

It's the same with the one meal a day, both UD and DD. In his book Dr. J always recommends spreading calories throughout the day. He even talks about sipping shakes a couple of ounces at a time rather than drinking an entire one as a meal replacement.

I know that IF and fasting works for many people, but it is not the basis of this WOE, and I think that a thread labeled JUDDD should try to focus on the principles outlined by Dr. J rather than individual modifications.

As Kisha has pointed out, newbies can be confused, but I think that even experienced JUDDDers might feel pressured into water fasting, etc.

We all know that the tendency to want to lose weight FAST is to be resisted rather than indulged because fast weight loss is not especially healthy, but I'm reading a trend toward focusing on that. (Again, this is from someone who CAN'T lose weight fast, so I am biased in this area.)

From the "newbie": Have you read the book?
On page 244 in the questions and answers, Dr. Johnson states this:
"To maximize the response that lowers oxidative stress and inflammation, eating nothing every other day would probably be most effective."

I don't remember reading anything about the detriments of water fasting in the book.
As far as eating all your calories in a set time frame on the UD's, that's what most people do anyway. What's most American's largest meal of the day? Dinner. Why do you want to misconstrued what I'm conveying?

I'm not here to preach the "alternative" way of doing the Alternate Day Diet. I'm just here to shed some hope to those who might not be losing as quickly and to say, it can be done, don't give up.

I'm sorry that several people here have thyroid issues that are holding them back in some way with losing their weight as quickly as possible. I'm sure there's a thread or two on that subject alone. But for those of us who don't suffer with that issue, I think they will gain something from this.

Sincerely,
The Newbie

WHIRLYBIRD · 01-23-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maizenbluebabe

you know, Leo 41 has a very interesting and valid point here and I really respect where she is coming from. and think we need to pay close attention to what she is saying.

In view of the fact that some of us have strayed from the classic JUDDD program, I wonder if this would be a good time to start another thread completely and stop cluttering up this thread with our goofy little tweaks and leave the JUDDD thread to those who really want to concentrate on Dr Johnson's message in a very serious way. I hate the thought that the "tweakers" are amking this an uncomfortable thread for members like Leo41 and others like her.

She's right--it doesnt seem fair for us to be constantly bringing in other ways of approaching intermittent eating . Also, I realize that these new or different ideas break up the continuity of this really good plan, but it also seems a bit restrictive to not feel free to bring up other possibilities for consideration if someone is stalled or looking for other creative ways to cut or adjust calories and/or carbs

If anyone is interested in moving to another thread of our own, I will start one, probably entitled something like Alternate Day Tweakers & Fasters. If anyone thinks this is a good idea, let me know and we can move to a broader look at the question of calorie restriction which can makes room for varied fasts and also Dr Herring's 5 hour window concept as well as keeping some of the excellent Johnson ideas.

Sign Me Up!

jgw · 01-23-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo41

I'm a little conflicted because I sense a movement in this thread to "modifications" of JUDDD to extreme dieting, and I don't think that's healthy.

Perhaps this is just sour grapes because I know that I can't do anything extreme at my age and with my medical conditions, but as I read, the water fast is becoming the gold standard, and I know that will push many people into binging if they try to follow it.

It's the same with the one meal a day, both UD and DD. In his book Dr. J always recommends spreading calories throughout the day. He even talks about sipping shakes a couple of ounces at a time rather than drinking an entire one as a meal replacement.

I know that IF and fasting works for many people, but it is not the basis of this WOE, and I think that a thread labeled JUDDD should try to focus on the principles outlined by Dr. J rather than individual modifications.

As Kisha has pointed out, newbies can be confused, but I think that even experienced JUDDDers might feel pressured into water fasting, etc.

We all know that the tendency to want to lose weight FAST is to be resisted rather than indulged because fast weight loss is not especially healthy, but I'm reading a trend toward focusing on that. (Again, this is from someone who CAN'T lose weight fast, so I am biased in this area.)

Leo I'm not water fasting yet or if I will ever start. In the past I have lost weight very fast only to gain it back fast. This time I want to take it slow.
If others want to take the fast approach I wish them much luck.
I started this WOE using the original plan and so far it's been successful.

jgw · 01-23-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maizenbluebabe

you know, Leo 41 has a very interesting and valid point here and I really respect where she is coming from. and think we need to pay close attention to what she is saying. Actually, she has made this same point before several times--as have others--in a very tactful way, but sadly, we just havent been listening to her

In view of the fact that some of us have strayed from the classic JUDDD program, I wonder if this would be a good time to start another thread completely and stop cluttering up this thread with our goofy little tweaks and leave the JUDDD thread to those who really want to concentrate on Dr Johnson's message in a very serious way. I hate the thought that the "tweakers" are making this an uncomfortable thread for members like Leo41 and others like her.

She's right--it doesnt seem fair for us to be constantly bringing in other ways of approaching intermittent eating . Also, I realize that these new or different ideas break up the continuity of this really good plan, but it also seems a bit restrictive to not feel free to bring up other possibilities for consideration if someone is stalled or looking for other creative ways to cut or adjust calories and/or carbs

If anyone is interested in moving to another thread of our own, I will start one, probably entitled something like Alternate Day Tweakers & Fasters. If anyone thinks this is a good idea, let me know and we can move to a broader look at the question of calorie restriction which can makes room for varied fasts and also Dr Herring's 5 hour window concept as well as keeping some of the excellent Johnson ideas.

That would be a great idea and won't be so confusing for the newbies.

maizenbluebabe · 01-23-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanDreaming

WTG Kisha! Woo hoo!! One-derland here you come! I hope to be right behind you!

Today was a weigh day for me...211! Yippee! I've been hovering around 214-218 for MONTHS and finally I'm moving downward. And honestly, I haven't been all that good on my up days at all. Imagine if I would be? That's a total of 7 pounds in 3 weeks, which for me is amazing. Kisha, my stats are almost identical to yours and have been watching you closely for weeks (not in a creepy kind of way, mind you ) I wonder about my thyroid as well, must go have that checked soon.

Whirly, you're friend does look amazing. And you've lost 14 lbs already--awesome and congrats!

Zer, come on in the water is fine!

Today is DD for me. The very BEST part of having a DD is that the UD is right behind it! Absolutely no fear of extreme dieting at my house. I live for UD!

Have a great weekend fellow JUDDD-ites!

Angie, CONGRATULATIONS. What an inspiration you are !

Doing the happy dance for you bigtime!

Ilpirata · 01-23-2009, 01:36 PM

I agree with Leo. And probably for the same reason lol

Quote:

(Again, this is from someone who CAN'T lose weight fast, so I am biased in this area.)

There are DD when I don't eat until late in the day and there are DD where I'm hungry before that and must eat something. I just think its important for us to keep the JUDDDD thread focused on the Dr Johnson recommended form of eating. Just as the Atkins 72 thread is all about Atkins 72 by the book. People curious about this WOE will come to this thread to find out how to do it as described by the DR. I think a separate tweaked/altered thread is a good idea but I'd also like everyone that follows JUDD tweaked or not to keep contributing here as well.

I was also concerned when some who have not even tried this plan yet were excited to try it - including not eating at all on DD.

We call this a JUDDDD thread and I think its important to stay true to his plan.

wallaby · 01-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Well now i'm conflicted. I love the steady assurance of the long-termers here and the inspiration they offer. Despite a slower loss, they certainly haven't lost site of the goal.

I'm also inspired frankly by the people who are ramping this diet up a bit and including fasting as part of their WOE. (which by my reading of the diet, is not out-of-bounds). But I'm still so very new, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone or make anyone feel bad. That's so far off from what a board like this is all about.

So maizenblue, count me in on a new thread. But I'd sure like to feel like I can come back here as well.

Ilpirata · 01-23-2009, 02:17 PM

well and this should absolutely not be a "if you don't follow it by the book don't post here" o heck no! I just think its important when we're talking about other things to just say... I also do IF or I also do whatever else... or I tweak it this way... I dunno. I don't want this thread falling apart!

maizenbluebabe · 01-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilpirata

well and this should absolutely not be a "if you don't follow it by the book don't post here" o heck no! I just think its important when we're talking about other things to just say... I also do IF or I also do whatever else... or I tweak it this way... I dunno. I don't want this thread falling apart!

I agree completely, Kisha. And think the whole "Other Plans Forum" has room for both kinds of threads and that participating in another thread based loosely on JUDDD does NOT mean we are moving out entirely. It's just that a second thread will offer more freedom to the free-spirits who want to feel comfortable when they mention other kinds of intermittent eating in addition to JUDDD.

We always need to remember that everyone can post on as many--or as few--threads as they want here at LC Friends and my feeling is, THE MORE THE MERRIER!

OceanDreaming · 01-23-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maizenbluebabe

Angie, CONGRATULATIONS. What an inspiration you are !

Doing the happy dance for you bigtime!

Thank you!

Zer · 01-23-2009, 05:14 PM

I'm still lurking, reading, nodding and considering all that is posted at this thread. I'll probably do the same at a Tweaker thread, as I explore if what works for this or that person MIGHT also work for me. And I am keen to read what Dr.Johnson wrote, so thanks for this comment that pertains to how fasting positively impacts inflammation. I think this explains my own good days - when joints are less achy - days that I can often trace back to a day when I'm too busy to eat or when food just is not what I want to spend time fixing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHIRLYBIRD

On page 244 in the questions and answers, Dr. Johnson states this:

Quote:

To maximize the response that lowers oxidative stress and inflammation, eating nothing every other day would probably be most effective.

I don't remember reading anything about the detriments of water fasting in the book.

Water works. It hydrates and flushes and keeps my skin from puckering up. At 65, that's worth doing!

EmandM · 01-23-2009, 05:59 PM

Hi ladies,

I don't know if I am a tweaker or not. I guess I am since I don't do low carb! lol I will post on the other one so I don't have to worry. I don't want to upset anyone. I do want to say that I read Johnson's book and he does say that fasting every other day is ideal, but since most people can't do it, he came up with the 20% thing (and on this website of course you can do 25% and higher on DD's for weight loss). So I am not sure that fasting on a DD is considered tweaking, but I guess people should err on the side of caution and go to the tweaker thread! Ok, that sounds funny! The tweaker thread! Can you tell it's been a long day?

Good luck everyone!

shunsweets · 01-23-2009, 06:07 PM

I guess I, too, am a tweaker as I'm also interested in different styles of IF and I'm in maintenance so if that is where we are heading I'll see you on the tweaker thread!

Zer · 01-24-2009, 01:09 AM

Now here's a LC tactic that I'd like to add to my array of tools for managing carby cravings!

Quote:

The following is from Dr. Michael Eades' Blog. It's a VERY good read.

Quote:

Back in the early 1980s a psychiatrist, William Glasser, M.D., wrote a book titled Take Effective Control of Your Life that I read at the time and thought to be one of the more insightful books I had ever read. The paperback version of that same book appeared a couple of years later under the title Control Theory. Both editions are now out of print but pre-owned copies can be had for pennies.... This is a book well worth reading. And not just for dietary help.

Dr. Glasser explains that all behavior has four components. He doesn’t explain these in dietary terms, but I will.
1. the physiological component
2. the feeling component
3. the thinking component
4. the doing component

We don’t have any control over the first two and only partial control over the third. But we have total control over the fourth, the doing component.

Let’s look at how this all works with food.

Imagine you’re sitting in your office minding your own business when a co-worker comes in with a box of fresh, hot donuts, sticks the box in your face and says, ‘Have one.’ What happens?

First, your physiology kicks in. Your pancreas says, uh oh, here comes some sugar. Better get a little insulin cranked out to get ready for it. You get a spurt of insulin and your blood sugar starts to fall.

Then, as your blood sugar falls, you start to feel hungry. And your stomach starts to churn as it gets ready. This is the feeling component. And you have no control over this. It all happens and it is totally beyond your control.

Then you think about how good a donut would taste. And you imagine it. And you say to yourself, hey, it’s only one. What could it hurt? This is the thinking component, and you do have some control over it. But with the physiology and feeling components hard at work, it’s difficult not to think about the donuts. Difficult, but not impossible.

And all the above happens in just a few seconds.

Then you grab a donut and eat it.

The doing component. You have complete control over this component.

You choose to eat the donut. All the other components are ragging on you and you cave. And you say you had no control, but you really did. If someone had told you they were going to shoot you if you ate one of the donuts, you wouldn’t have eaten it. All the other three components (at least the first two) would have been acting the same, but you wouldn’t touch the donuts. You can control the doing component if you want to. Problem is the other three components gang up on you, trying to disable your will.

But, this can all the dealt with.

Dr. Glasser realized that the physiology to feeling to thinking to doing progression could be reversed. Since you have complete control over only the doing component, you’ve got to do something. And once you do, you can foil the progression. Because if you take different action, you can drive the progression the other way.

If you get up from your desk and say, No thanks, then leave your office and go involve yourself with something else all the components start to fall in line. Once you start doing something different, you start thinking about it, then your feelings of hunger go away and soon even your physiology falls into line. Your liver produces glucose to make up for that the little spurt of insulin knocked down, and soon you’re back to normal. And it doesn’t take all that long.

So, basically, we can be driven by a progression over which we have no control to abdicate the one thing we do have control over, our actual active doing. Or we can use our ability to do something to reverse control all the components that we don’t have direct control over.

Realizing that I had this ability to control the seemingly uncontrollable made a huge difference in my life years ago and continues to do so today. Knowing that I can control virtually any behavior, but especially my dietary behavior, by simply focusing my attention and effort onto a task or other activity has kept me on the straight and narrow multiple times when strong temptation fell in my path.

If the high-carb demon is goading you to go face down, telling you that you have uncontrollable cravings, just force yourself to go do something else. Soon the cravings will be gone.

It takes a little practice, but it helps to repeat the mantra:
I have 100 percent control
of what goes in my mouth.

Take the advice of Dr. Glasser.

Start worrying less over those things you can’t control and accept that you have no control over them. And take back control of the things you can. If you do so, you will be a much happier person. And a much thinner person.

Anyone else think that this might work for you too as a way of gaining control of the urge to splurge when carbage is within reach? I sure do! Take action to distract focus from carbage - and the action itself will work to derail the kneejerk response to temptation! TAKE ACTION! It's worth a try!

Leo41 · 01-24-2009, 06:34 AM

Zer-

Thanks so much for this! I love Dr. Eades' blogs, and I try to get over to his site regularly to check them out, but I missed this one.

Since you're considering JUDDD, I wanted you to know that this is EXACTLY what this woe did for me. After my first DD, I felt in control of my eating for perhaps the first time in my life. When I tried to restrict calories at other times, I was always thinking about what I could add and not go over my limit--and invariably that caused me to go over my limit. But on the DD, I was focused on staying within my limit--and the sense of accomplishment that gave me was invaluable. Because I need to restrict calories seriously, I actually do the same thing on my UD, except that the calorie limit is much higher. But JUDDD has reversed my thinking, and I believe done exactly what Dr. E was writing about. I don't feel "tempted" because I'm focused on what I put in my mouth rather than just thinking about food--i.e., I have an eating plan, and I just follow it and ignore everything else.

Leo41 · 01-24-2009, 06:44 AM

Just wanted to say that I'm having a DD today after 3 days of eating "freely"--i.e., not worrying about carbs or calories but not especially overeating.

As you know, I've been worried about the fact that since my thyroid seems to be out of whack, JUDDD may not be a good eating plan for me, so I planned to stop DDs until I talked to my endo. But it turns out that he's out of the country until next week. On Friday, I went in for my bloodwork so that he could review it when he returns, and I left him a long note about the symptoms I've been having, along with an explanation of JUDDD.

But eating freely made me feel tired and bloated, and I longed for the clean feeling I get from my DDs. I don't think of JUDDD as deprivation--it's made me feel the best of any eating I've ever done. So I decided to keep up with this for as long as I can.

Most likely it's not the source of my problem. Since I have Hashimoto's, it could simply be the disease flaring up. In addition, if I am faithful to JUDDD and DON'T lose any weight, that's important for my endo to know in evaluting my condition.

Often it's frustrating because doctors just assume you've been eating too much when you don't lose weight, but as I explained to my endo, on my DD's I principally rely on shakes for food for which I have an exact calorie count. On my UD's, I similarly rely on the calorie count listed for all foods I consume, so I know I'm fairly accurate. When I GAINED 4 lbs while averaging 800-900 cal per day (after losing a pound a week on the same number of calories), and I confirmed that it was NOT water weight, I knew there was a problem.
If I continue to gain or not lose on the same plan, that will be important for my endo to know when we finally talk about all this.

So whether I lose or not, I'm committed to JUDDD for now.

maizenbluebabe · 01-24-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer

I'm still lurking, reading, nodding and considering all that is posted at this thread. I'll probably do the same at a Tweaker thread, as I explore if what works for this or that person MIGHT also work for me. And I am keen to read what Dr.Johnson wrote, so thanks for this comment that pertains to how fasting positively impacts inflammation. I think this explains my own good days - when joints are less achy - days that I can often trace back to a day when I'm too busy to eat or when food just is not what I want to spend time fixing. Water works. It hydrates and flushes and keeps my skin from puckering up. At 65, that's worth doing!

Funny you say this about "inflammation," Zer--it has also been my experience that some form of Fast like Johnson or Fast 5 helps much for me to avoid achey joints and muscles and so does eating LC. And of course, you'll be more than welcome to be a lurker or a poster over at the Tweaker thread.

maizenbluebabe · 01-24-2009, 07:14 AM

Hey there everyone, the alternate or "extended JUDDD site is up and if you havent seen it, is entitled "JUDDD TWEAKERS, FAST 5-ers, & WATER FASTERS. And all are welcome, of course.

My DownDay yesterday turned into a totally unintended Water Fast and I lost 2.1 pounds. Water weight I am sure, but it surprised me that I was not at all hungry or weak. A reference I found says that this kind of thing one day per week is beneficial to one's health. Who knew? Anyhow, I may combine that with some aspect of JUDDD in the future but wont discuss it here so as not to lose focus on a strict JUDDD regimen.

Have a super day everyone.

Leo41 · 01-24-2009, 09:43 AM

Let me explain my concern. I KNOW that in his book, Dr. J mentions that "probably"--and note that word because he admits the science is vague on this--total fasting on DD would be ideal but that most people cannot sustain that.

My feeling in reading recent posts was that the emphasis on water fasts might turn off people who "cannot sustain that"--in other words, they might think that it is necessary to JUDDD. For example, if I had first learned of JUDDD as involving water fasts on alternate days, I would never had even tried it. As it was, limiting myself to 400 cal was a completely new experience for me--and a revelation that I could actually do it.

In addition, for those like me who have a great deal of weight to lose and are thus in this for the long haul, the practice of water fasting is just too intimidating. I might get there at some point, but it's not even on the horizon right now.

Those of you who CAN do this, I think it's great, but the emphasis on fasting and rapid weight loss can lead to ED for those who already have food issues, and that's a danger that's best avoided. My concern was NOT individual posts, but the tone that seemed to suddenly be pervading the board.

01-23-2009, 12:34 PM	#610
OceanDreaming Senior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 720 Gallery: OceanDreaming Stats: 250/174/155	WTG Kisha! Woo hoo!! One-derland here you come! I hope to be right behind you! Today was a weigh day for me...211! Yippee! I've been hovering around 214-218 for MONTHS and finally I'm moving downward. And honestly, I haven't been all that good on my up days at all. Imagine if I would be? That's a total of 7 pounds in 3 weeks, which for me is amazing. Kisha, my stats are almost identical to yours and have been watching you closely for weeks (not in a creepy kind of way, mind you ) I wonder about my thyroid as well, must go have that checked soon. As for publishing and resizing photos (someone asked, can't remember sorry) you can open a Photobucket account for free and do all that stuff. Really easy. Whirly, you're friend does look amazing. And you've lost 14 lbs already--awesome and congrats! Zer, come on in the water is fine! Today is DD for me. The very BEST part of having a DD is that the UD is right behind it! Absolutely no fear of extreme dieting at my house. I live for UD! Have a great weekend fellow JUDDD-ites! Last edited by OceanDreaming; 01-23-2009 at 12:36 PM..

01-23-2009, 12:43 PM	#611
maizenbluebabe Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Georgia Mountains Posts: 1,366 Gallery: maizenbluebabe Stats: 182.0/168.4/150 WOE: LowCarb, JUDDD Start Date: June 08	MYabe it is time to split this subject? you know, Leo 41 has a very interesting and valid point here and I really respect where she is coming from. and think we need to pay close attention to what she is saying. Actually, she has made this same point before several times--as have others--in a very tactful way, but sadly, we just havent been listening to her In view of the fact that some of us have strayed from the classic JUDDD program, I wonder if this would be a good time to start another thread completely and stop cluttering up this thread with our goofy little tweaks and leave the JUDDD thread to those who really want to concentrate on Dr Johnson's message in a very serious way. I hate the thought that the "tweakers" are making this an uncomfortable thread for members like Leo41 and others like her. She's right--it doesnt seem fair for us to be constantly bringing in other ways of approaching intermittent eating . Also, I realize that these new or different ideas break up the continuity of this really good plan, but it also seems a bit restrictive to not feel free to bring up other possibilities for consideration if someone is stalled or looking for other creative ways to cut or adjust calories and/or carbs If anyone is interested in moving to another thread of our own, I will start one, probably entitled something like Alternate Day Tweakers & Fasters. If anyone thinks this is a good idea, let me know and we can move to a broader look at the question of calorie restriction which can makes room for varied fasts and also Dr Herring's 5 hour window concept as well as keeping some of the excellent Johnson ideas. Last edited by maizenbluebabe; 01-23-2009 at 12:55 PM..

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01-23-2009, 12:09 PM	#603
wallaby Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 267 Gallery: wallaby Stats: 153/136/120 WOE: alternate day Start Date: 01/09	Kisha, your slow and steady progress is really something. You're doing great. My day started out badly, in a wicked PMS mood, which - I convinced myself - only chocolate could cure. So I went to the fancy chocolate place in town, carefully picked out 4 lovely dark chocolates, bought them, and walked out of the shop. But before stuffing them into my gullet, I decided to stop in a nearby clothing boutique . (I hate shopping btw, but I like nice clothes - especially when they are on clearance and in my price range) Good thing I stopped! I tried on a few things and VOILA. Turns out I have dropped 2 sizes in the last month! So I sure as heck wasn't going to let a little chocolate craving derail me after figuring that out. In the end I let myself eat one small piece (a dark chocolate salt caramel, yum) and gave the rest to my DH. He thinks I'm sweet. Little does he know.... I think I can still swing a MD or even a DD today! YAY. (In addition to the shrinkage, think just getting out and talking to people - people I don't work with or live with - helped my mood tremendously.)

01-23-2009, 12:12 PM	#604
wallaby Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 267 Gallery: wallaby Stats: 153/136/120 WOE: alternate day Start Date: 01/09	WOW Whirlybird, your friend looks amazing! Really just 3 mos on this plan (water fast and 1 meal) ? I'm doubly inspired and will keep on keeping on!

01-23-2009, 12:33 PM	#608
Leo41 Senior LCF member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,426 Gallery: Leo41 Stats: 340 then/145 now WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling	I'm a little conflicted because I sense a movement in this thread to "modifications" of JUDDD to extreme dieting, and I don't think that's healthy. Perhaps this is just sour grapes because I know that I can't do anything extreme at my age and with my medical conditions, but as I read, the water fast is becoming the gold standard, and I know that will push many people into binging if they try to follow it. It's the same with the one meal a day, both UD and DD. In his book Dr. J always recommends spreading calories throughout the day. He even talks about sipping shakes a couple of ounces at a time rather than drinking an entire one as a meal replacement. I know that IF and fasting works for many people, but it is not the basis of this WOE, and I think that a thread labeled JUDDD should try to focus on the principles outlined by Dr. J rather than individual modifications. As Kisha has pointed out, newbies can be confused, but I think that even experienced JUDDDers might feel pressured into water fasting, etc. We all know that the tendency to want to lose weight FAST is to be resisted rather than indulged because fast weight loss is not especially healthy, but I'm reading a trend toward focusing on that. (Again, this is from someone who CAN'T lose weight fast, so I am biased in this area.)

01-23-2009, 02:16 PM	#618
wallaby Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 267 Gallery: wallaby Stats: 153/136/120 WOE: alternate day Start Date: 01/09	Well now i'm conflicted. I love the steady assurance of the long-termers here and the inspiration they offer. Despite a slower loss, they certainly haven't lost site of the goal. I'm also inspired frankly by the people who are ramping this diet up a bit and including fasting as part of their WOE. (which by my reading of the diet, is not out-of-bounds). But I'm still so very new, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone or make anyone feel bad. That's so far off from what a board like this is all about. So maizenblue, count me in on a new thread. But I'd sure like to feel like I can come back here as well.

01-23-2009, 02:17 PM	#619
Ilpirata Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,061 Gallery: Ilpirata	well and this should absolutely not be a "if you don't follow it by the book don't post here" o heck no! I just think its important when we're talking about other things to just say... I also do IF or I also do whatever else... or I tweak it this way... I dunno. I don't want this thread falling apart!

01-23-2009, 05:59 PM	#623
EmandM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 754 Gallery: EmandM Stats: Maintaining at 114 (5'5" 35 yrs) WOE: JUDDD/Whole foods Start Date: JUDDD start date: Nov. '08	Hi ladies, I don't know if I am a tweaker or not. I guess I am since I don't do low carb! lol I will post on the other one so I don't have to worry. I don't want to upset anyone. I do want to say that I read Johnson's book and he does say that fasting every other day is ideal, but since most people can't do it, he came up with the 20% thing (and on this website of course you can do 25% and higher on DD's for weight loss). So I am not sure that fasting on a DD is considered tweaking, but I guess people should err on the side of caution and go to the tweaker thread! Ok, that sounds funny! The tweaker thread! Can you tell it's been a long day? Good luck everyone!

01-23-2009, 06:07 PM	#624
shunsweets Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,014 Gallery: shunsweets Stats: maintenance WOE: Bernstein, NK Start Date: May 2003	I guess I, too, am a tweaker as I'm also interested in different styles of IF and I'm in maintenance so if that is where we are heading I'll see you on the tweaker thread!

01-24-2009, 06:34 AM	#626
Leo41 Senior LCF member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,426 Gallery: Leo41 Stats: 340 then/145 now WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling	Zer- Thanks so much for this! I love Dr. Eades' blogs, and I try to get over to his site regularly to check them out, but I missed this one. Since you're considering JUDDD, I wanted you to know that this is EXACTLY what this woe did for me. After my first DD, I felt in control of my eating for perhaps the first time in my life. When I tried to restrict calories at other times, I was always thinking about what I could add and not go over my limit--and invariably that caused me to go over my limit. But on the DD, I was focused on staying within my limit--and the sense of accomplishment that gave me was invaluable. Because I need to restrict calories seriously, I actually do the same thing on my UD, except that the calorie limit is much higher. But JUDDD has reversed my thinking, and I believe done exactly what Dr. E was writing about. I don't feel "tempted" because I'm focused on what I put in my mouth rather than just thinking about food--i.e., I have an eating plan, and I just follow it and ignore everything else.

01-24-2009, 06:44 AM	#627
Leo41 Senior LCF member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,426 Gallery: Leo41 Stats: 340 then/145 now WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling	Just wanted to say that I'm having a DD today after 3 days of eating "freely"--i.e., not worrying about carbs or calories but not especially overeating. As you know, I've been worried about the fact that since my thyroid seems to be out of whack, JUDDD may not be a good eating plan for me, so I planned to stop DDs until I talked to my endo. But it turns out that he's out of the country until next week. On Friday, I went in for my bloodwork so that he could review it when he returns, and I left him a long note about the symptoms I've been having, along with an explanation of JUDDD. But eating freely made me feel tired and bloated, and I longed for the clean feeling I get from my DDs. I don't think of JUDDD as deprivation--it's made me feel the best of any eating I've ever done. So I decided to keep up with this for as long as I can. Most likely it's not the source of my problem. Since I have Hashimoto's, it could simply be the disease flaring up. In addition, if I am faithful to JUDDD and DON'T lose any weight, that's important for my endo to know in evaluting my condition. Often it's frustrating because doctors just assume you've been eating too much when you don't lose weight, but as I explained to my endo, on my DD's I principally rely on shakes for food for which I have an exact calorie count. On my UD's, I similarly rely on the calorie count listed for all foods I consume, so I know I'm fairly accurate. When I GAINED 4 lbs while averaging 800-900 cal per day (after losing a pound a week on the same number of calories), and I confirmed that it was NOT water weight, I knew there was a problem. If I continue to gain or not lose on the same plan, that will be important for my endo to know when we finally talk about all this. So whether I lose or not, I'm committed to JUDDD for now.

01-24-2009, 07:14 AM	#629
maizenbluebabe Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Georgia Mountains Posts: 1,366 Gallery: maizenbluebabe Stats: 182.0/168.4/150 WOE: LowCarb, JUDDD Start Date: June 08	Hey there everyone, the alternate or "extended JUDDD site is up and if you havent seen it, is entitled "JUDDD TWEAKERS, FAST 5-ers, & WATER FASTERS. And all are welcome, of course. My DownDay yesterday turned into a totally unintended Water Fast and I lost 2.1 pounds. Water weight I am sure, but it surprised me that I was not at all hungry or weak. A reference I found says that this kind of thing one day per week is beneficial to one's health. Who knew? Anyhow, I may combine that with some aspect of JUDDD in the future but wont discuss it here so as not to lose focus on a strict JUDDD regimen. Have a super day everyone.

01-24-2009, 09:43 AM	#630
Leo41 Senior LCF member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,426 Gallery: Leo41 Stats: 340 then/145 now WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling	Let me explain my concern. I KNOW that in his book, Dr. J mentions that "probably"--and note that word because he admits the science is vague on this--total fasting on DD would be ideal but that most people cannot sustain that. My feeling in reading recent posts was that the emphasis on water fasts might turn off people who "cannot sustain that"--in other words, they might think that it is necessary to JUDDD. For example, if I had first learned of JUDDD as involving water fasts on alternate days, I would never had even tried it. As it was, limiting myself to 400 cal was a completely new experience for me--and a revelation that I could actually do it. In addition, for those like me who have a great deal of weight to lose and are thus in this for the long haul, the practice of water fasting is just too intimidating. I might get there at some point, but it's not even on the horizon right now. Those of you who CAN do this, I think it's great, but the emphasis on fasting and rapid weight loss can lead to ED for those who already have food issues, and that's a danger that's best avoided. My concern was NOT individual posts, but the tone that seemed to suddenly be pervading the board.