Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure? - Page 64

maybell · 05-30-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

NO...she still needs to TAKE IT...but about four hours BEFORE the blood testing. I think it looks as if she took it within an hour of having that blood test. The hair fallout is usually from either over-working out, OR too low cals/carbs. But, if she is feeling: weak in the thigh muscles, fatigued, shaky hands held out in front of her, emotional, etc. in the afternoon about eight hours after taking that Cytomel...she may not need the Cytomel. But that's up to her doctor to take it away.

If she is feeling well ...even though the hair is falling out...keep doing what she's doing as far as thyroid meds...but hair does fall out if we go too low in calories/carbs/ too much working out especially if we have hypothyroidism. Better yet..she might discuss taking natural thyroid instead of those synthetics (Armour, or Westhroid).

Pam

Hi Pam,
Thanks for clearing that up!
She can't remember if she took it or not before her test so I bet she did. She isn't having any of the symptoms you mentioned so I bet the hair is from too low of cals and carbs and working out. She went from eating whatever she wanted and being completely sedentary to dieting and working out hard 5 times a week so what you are saying really makes sense.

This has really helped me understand the thyroid better. I will tell her to keep doing what she is doing and to look into Armour or Westhroid instead of the synthetics.

I am so grateful for your knowledge and that you are willing to share it with us all!
Maybell

nonstickpam107 · 05-30-2008, 11:02 AM

I wonder why it is that NOT ONE female taking ONLY synthetic T3 is feeling well?? Not ONE (I just looked at my notes and I've heard from over 167 doing this regimen) feels well. I didn't. And I COULD afford time released..it made me feel antsy one minute, just down the next. Armour at 3 grains in summer and 3.5 grains in winter is what did the trick. You might want to try going back to Armour. I know that doesn't work well with doctors who are 'too quick' to want to push the patient to synthetics...they don't 'get it' that we need to get beyond the 2 grain mark (slowly..very slowly) in order to optimize..they give up when they see the 90mg. mark and then push to synthetics.

Armour has: 37mcg. T4 and about 9mg. T3. It should be dosed in 'splits'...I split mine in half, some split it three times and sleep better with the lowest split before bedtime.

I just feel horrible on ONLY Cytomel, feel even worse on ONLY synthetic T4 and feel just right on Armour (it mimics the natural human thyroid well).

Pam

stellastarr* · 05-30-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

I would need the copy of the test...and there is no such thing as 'one test for thyroid'. I think you are talking about the TSH test...and that's NO indication you do or do not have hypothyroidism.

You need the following: TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and if the FT's come back low, you need TPO antibodies to rule out Hashimoto's (which is most likely because of family involvement). NO one should have to be treated by a doctor who ONLY goes by TSH.

Please go back and read this thread..it answered your questions. TSH means absolutely NOTHING. My TSH was LOWER than yours and I was very ill...TSH is a test of your pituitary. Many doctors think it is the 'gold standard' for thyroid tests...it is NOT and never will be.

If you want to save money/can't find a doctor to do the tests, you can order Thyroid Profile II at Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests they send you to a lab near YOU, and report back to you. Use checkout code: 12345 for a discount. It costs under 90 dollars.

ETA: if that's your TSH and the doc is saying it should be between a 4 and a 5..RUN!!! That's ridiculous. And also, endo's do great diabetes, not always great thyroid. If you'd like to say what state you are in, I can possibly give you names of doctors who REALLY know how to treat better. Also, just ask her for TSH, FREE T4 and FREE T3 (NOT a "T3 Uptake" if that doc says a T3 uptake is a measurement of T3...um, you need another doctor for SURE).

Pam

Pam, thanks so much for your reply! I've been combing through forums, doing online research and trying to get more info out of my Dr., but it's all left me feeling so overwhelmed. If you have any names of anyone in WA state that I could see, I would definitely appreciate it. I'm in the Seattle area, but wouldn't be opposed to travel a bit to see the right person. I'm really concerned and would like to be able to see a Dr. that takes me seriously and at the very least completes a full set of tests (not just a single number) with results that can be explained (not just the terms low and normal)!

Anyway, thanks for your help and also confirming that I'm not as crazy as I feel when my Dr. tells me not to worry about it.... "everything's normal"

...ha!

nonstickpam107 · 05-30-2008, 02:03 PM

Here ya go:

Dr. Geoffrey S. Ames, Holistic/complementary/alternative MD, 750 Swift Blvd. #1, Richland, Washington, 99352, Ph/Fax: (509) 943-3934
(In Richland, not Seattle, but so MANY love this doctor, I added it in..most of us have to travel a couple hours ONE way driving to see a good thyroid doctor yanno...there are only two REALLY great ones in MY state).

Kenneth Gross, MD, Endocrinology Virginia Mason, 1100 Ninth Ave., Seattle, WA 98101 (206) 223-6621, http://www.virginiamason.org/dbPhysi...sician2570.asp
(Said to Rx. Armour Thyroid, and treats the symptoms, also likes well informed patients).

Dr. Robert Murray, Polyclinic on Broadway. http://www.polyclinic.com/op_name.htm
(Uses synthetics, but does FT's and will use synthetic T3 as well as T4, you MUST have a referral from another doctor to see him).

Dr Rebecca Wynsome ND, Water's Edge Natural Health Services, 150 Nickerson Street, Suite 211, Seattle WA 98109 Phone: 206-283-1383.
(She's a Broda Barnes trained doctor, and Rx's Armour)

AND..I was SO normal...TSH of .25 or so and three weeks later was in ICU in myxedema coma. I made sure to make an appointment with three of the five doctors I'd seen previously and show them what they did to me...they don't like me...awww...(all five of them don't have very many thyroid patients anymore either..wonder how THAT happened??!! So confusing!!).

Best of luck to you,

Pam

stellastarr* · 06-01-2008, 12:12 AM

Pam, I can't thank you enough for these names... I think I have a long journey ahead, but with more knowledge and a good physician on my side it will definitely help!

Thanks Again,

Stellastarr*

nonstickpam107 · 06-01-2008, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stellastarr*

Pam, I can't thank you enough for these names... I think I have a long journey ahead, but with more knowledge and a good physician on my side it will definitely help!

Thanks Again,

Stellastarr*

You are very welcome. Let us know how you're journey is going from time to time.

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-01-2008, 06:36 PM

Hi Pam! Here are my test results after taking 100mcg of levothyroxine for about 7 weeks. I asked my doctor to test free T3 & T4.

T4 free- 1.4 range .8-1.8
T3 free- 303 range 230-420

TSH 2.59 range .4-4.50

At the same visit I asked to try armour and since she RX's that for other patients she switched me to 1.5gr of it. I feel much better already.

The levothyroxine didn't make me feel better at all. So a big thank you for all your information! I really felt like I knew what I was talking about at this visit thanks to you and all that you've posted. I go back in three weeks for another blood test and will be curious to see what the difference is now that I am on the armour. Thanks for all your time and energy!

Penny

SSin-Deb · 06-01-2008, 09:31 PM

I'm just reading this whole forum for the first time, skipped to the last page and noticed Dr. Ames mentioned in post #1894 - he's my doctor! Small world... I'm also on Armour as I'm now hypo after 2 ablations with RAI. Wish I'd gone to Dr. Ames prior to the ablations..

Okay - now back to the beginning to read, this is going to take a while - what a thread!! *Ü*

pennylovesdarren · 06-02-2008, 12:09 AM

Hi SSin Deb~ I know you from the SS site! Gorgeous picture!

nonstickpam107 · 06-02-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennylovesdarren

Hi Pam! Here are my test results after taking 100mcg of levothyroxine for about 7 weeks. I asked my doctor to test free T3 & T4.

T4 free- 1.4 range .8-1.8
T3 free- 303 range 230-420

TSH 2.59 range .4-4.50

At the same visit I asked to try armour and since she RX's that for other patients she switched me to 1.5gr of it. I feel much better already.

The levothyroxine didn't make me feel better at all. So a big thank you for all your information! I really felt like I knew what I was talking about at this visit thanks to you and all that you've posted. I go back in three weeks for another blood test and will be curious to see what the difference is now that I am on the armour. Thanks for all your time and energy!

Penny

Wow, that's wonderful! So happy your doc switched you to Armour...you'll notice, over time, that you feel better and better. So, you went from 100mcg. of T4 only (and see how low your FT3 was!) to about 56mcg. of T4 and 12mg. of T3 (so, you see, you may still increase on that Armour..don't let the doc go nuts over that TSH dropping to the bottom of the barrel...Armour does that, so although 1.5 grains will drop the TSH down to nuttin' (maybe) and bring the FT3 up some, and drop the FT4, they shouldn't go back DOWN in dosage, as that 1.5 may not 'cut it' over the next couple years.).

3 weeks isn't enough time to see a switch...cuz the T4 you WERE taking has a half life of 6 weeks and will make the next tests look 'over medicated' for T4. Try and get the doc to switch it out for 6 weeks tests (and that scares me...I see docs 'laughing' about switching patient to Armour, testing really quick and then telling patient "Oh, see, that's not working, too low TSH, blah blah blah"..just a heads up). Ok, now ya'll know I'm 'thyroid doctor paranoid', heh heh.

Let me know how you are doing over the next six weeks or so! (and you can split that Armour dosage! In half. TAke half in the am, half in early afternoon and see how great ya feel too!).

Pam

nonstickpam107 · 06-02-2008, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSin-Deb

I'm just reading this whole forum for the first time, skipped to the last page and noticed Dr. Ames mentioned in post #1894 - he's my doctor! Small world... I'm also on Armour as I'm now hypo after 2 ablations with RAI. Wish I'd gone to Dr. Ames prior to the ablations..

Okay - now back to the beginning to read, this is going to take a while - what a thread!! *Ü*

Thank you so much for telling us! Always happy to see a patient of a doctor I've had recommended by another patient!! Yeah, long thread, and several have asked me to condense it into a book...but then you'd have to pay to read it, and then no discussion..so that's not a good thing. I'm an advocate after all, not an author. (Starving artist advocate, hee hee).

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-02-2008, 10:39 AM

Thanks Pam! I will schedule appointment in five weeks so the "old T4" will be out of my system. I love ya girl for all your help! I feel so much happier now. Tomorrow I will split the dose into am/early pm. I am so jazzed to feel fabulous again. It has totally changed my state of mind.

P.S. I told my doctor all about my online thyroid patient advocate! 'Course in a very polite respectful manner because I

my doctor. (even more so now!)

SSin-Deb · 06-02-2008, 10:48 AM

Wow! Yes - I remember you too pennyloves darren! Are you still Somersizing? Or doing Atkins? I love this site!! Thanks on the compliment on my picture - I need to update that, it's a couple years old now... nice to 'see' you again! I love your picture too!

Pam ~ I was just surprised when I saw Dr. Ames name in the post - ha. In fact, I have my appt. tomorrow (thyroid and other hormones). I hope to start reading this thread from the beginning soon. Yes, I do believe it could be a book! *Ü*

nonstickpam107 · 06-02-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennylovesdarren

Thanks Pam! I will schedule appointment in five weeks so the "old T4" will be out of my system. I love ya girl for all your help! I feel so much happier now. Tomorrow I will split the dose into am/early pm. I am so jazzed to feel fabulous again. It has totally changed my state of mind.

P.S. I told my doctor all about my online thyroid patient advocate! 'Course in a very polite respectful manner because I

my doctor. (even more so now!)

There are quite a few doctors who 'know me' from online. Some of them know me from years back as 'pyroteknicpam' or 'pyropam' too (I'm an expyrotechnician...fireworks tech...great hobby, but the chemical perchlorate almost ended my life).

Yeah, I remember the rush I got after FINALLY being treated and optimized on Armour...it was like a black cloud was lifted!

Pam

nonstickpam107 · 06-02-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSin-Deb

Wow! Yes - I remember you too pennyloves darren! Are you still Somersizing? Or doing Atkins? I love this site!! Thanks on the compliment on my picture - I need to update that, it's a couple years old now... nice to 'see' you again! I love your picture too!

Pam ~ I was just surprised when I saw Dr. Ames name in the post - ha. In fact, I have my appt. tomorrow (thyroid and other hormones). I hope to start reading this thread from the beginning soon. Yes, I do believe it could be a book! *Ü*

You tell that Dr. Ames that a thyroid patient advocate thinks he RAWKS!! (And kind of nicely ask him if he wants more patients..I have to recommend cuz I did it a couple months ago and the poor doc had over 30 people calling for appointments, heh heh).

Pam

MsSeattleSlim · 06-02-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Here ya go:

Dr. Geoffrey S. Ames, Holistic/complementary/alternative MD, 750 Swift Blvd. #1, Richland, Washington, 99352, Ph/Fax: (509) 943-3934
(In Richland, not Seattle, but so MANY love this doctor, I added it in..most of us have to travel a couple hours ONE way driving to see a good thyroid doctor yanno...there are only two REALLY great ones in MY state).

Kenneth Gross, MD, Endocrinology Virginia Mason, 1100 Ninth Ave., Seattle, WA 98101 (206) 223-6621, http://www.virginiamason.org/dbPhysi...sician2570.asp (Said to Rx. Armour Thyroid, and treats the symptoms, also likes well informed patients).

Dr. Robert Murray, Polyclinic on Broadway. http://www.polyclinic.com/op_name.htm
(Uses synthetics, but does FT's and will use synthetic T3 as well as T4, you MUST have a referral from another doctor to see him).

Dr Rebecca Wynsome ND, Water's Edge Natural Health Services, 150 Nickerson Street, Suite 211, Seattle WA 98109 Phone: 206-283-1383.
(She's a Broda Barnes trained doctor, and Rx's Armour)

Hi from the other thread!

And thanks for the info - I've copied it for reference. I'm satisfied with Dr. Murray at the moment, but it's always good to have options.

Richland (where Dr. Ames is) is about 3.5 hours from Seattle, and 4 hours from Ft. Lewis - I hope Seldomcontent came over here and found the other possibilities.

nonstickpam107 · 06-02-2008, 03:22 PM

There's a lot of us that are travelling quite some ways to see a doctor that we like, ya know? I travel about 1.75 hours one way. But then again, once we get 'stabilized' on our hormones...we only have to go once/twice a year, so I guess it's worth it for most of us.

One more thing. I've said it before...I'll say it again. IF you have a doctor that will do combo synthetic...synthetic T4 and Cytomel...if you can get him/her to up dosage till YOU feel good, that's great. But please (for these people who's docs do combo) don't think you are going to be 'making' that doc give you natural Armour or Westhroid. And you wouldn't want them too, trust me. Most docs who do combo synthetic, tend to underreplace with Armour. Armour (and Westhroid) dumps the TSH to below range (and that's enough to send docs screaming, ripping your meds out your hand!)...and the doc MUST go by FT's to titrate. Thus the patient who makes her/his doc do natural when the doc is NOT well versed, end up woefully underreplaced and miserable.

For those who are searching for an affordable doc...you might want to look up and google 'Anti aging docs in _____ (put city/state here)' and also 'Doctors of Osteopathy in _______'. DO's tend to have much training in thyroid disease and treating with Armour and natural thyroid. And anti aging docs go by symptoms and aren't afraid to test and adjust adrenals.

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-03-2008, 02:14 PM

Hi Pam~ Last week I had a ultrasound on my thyroid because of a small bump on my throat. My doctor just called and said there is a small, 6mm, nodule on my thyroid. She is referring me to an endo because she doesn't know what to do. Do you have any thoughts about this? Thanks! Penny

P.S. I have the hashimoto's if that makes any difference. I guess nodules are more common.

nonstickpam107 · 06-03-2008, 02:22 PM

Most of us with Hashimoto's have nodules. I had a multinodular thyroid...meaning tons of them. But, depending on what the nodule looks like to the endo..the endo may FNB it (fine needle biopsy to rule out cancer....they just aspirate the nodule IF it looks suspicious...it's not a surgery, doesn't take long, little pressure and then..that's it, may have some swelling at the needle site later...and a little redness, but not a big deal).

ETA: Most patients see nodules 'disappear' if they are OPTIMIZED with thyroid hormone, particularly with T3 hormone. Your doctor is doing the right thing though...although don't expect the endo to 'know more' or 'treat better' than the doc you've got.

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-03-2008, 02:28 PM

Thanks Pam for the super speedy reply! Doesn't sound like a big deal. I split my armour dosage today. Yay! I expect to have more energy now throughout the afternoon. Those pills are surprisingly easy to break in half!

nonstickpam107 · 06-03-2008, 03:51 PM

I use an inexpensive pill cutter (from W-mart) and that's really easy too. Now...you know you just started on Armour...and you'll 'know' when you need more...cuz you'll get what we term 'the crash', lol. You just all of a sudden start feeling the symptoms you felt before you started the Armour. Most docs who go by FT's (FT4, FT3) will know that you need to move up in dosage (some don't...if you're only getting a TSH..watch out) and that's when you'll need to move up SLOWLY...like 1/4 to 1/2 grain for a couple months, then re test. Hope that nodule is 'nuttin'!

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-04-2008, 01:49 PM

I am saving all this info. Pam to a designated thyroid file so when I go in again I will remember it all! Last time I printed it all off so I could discuss it with my doctor. I just keep cutting and pasting with the dates of new info. I saw your one post that said most women need between 18 - 30 mg of T3 and since I'm only at 12 mg I will definitely be paying attention to how I feel. I will keep asking to have the FT's tested since the first two times they weren't. The first time I was told my thyroid was fine. haha Second time, a year or so later, same test, but told it wasn't AND then when I said my mom had thyroid problems, they went back and tested for hashi's. Guess what? That's what I had so now I am much more educated and will have the FT's done. No disrespect to my doctor though. Sounds like doctors make this mistake frequently. She is fantastic and very willing to do what is best for me.

nonstickpam107 · 06-04-2008, 02:16 PM

Well, it's one thing to GET FT's, it's quite another to have the doctor be able to interpret them. T3 is something that is 'individual' and should be 'split' as it's only a 4 hour half life. Armour has: 37mcg. T4 and 9mg. of T3...and it's dosed 'differently'...but should always be titrated using FT's NOT the TSH. TSH means nuttin' with Armour. Armour dumps it in the toilet and keeps it there, even though you aren't 'optimized' yet. So docs who aren't looking at the actual hormones (T4, T3) won't understand that just cuz the TSH is a blip on the radar you aren't still aren't 'up to par' yet.

Pam

pennylovesdarren · 06-04-2008, 06:54 PM

Okay so when they are optimized T3 will be on the upper 3/4 of the range and T4 should be in the middle of the range or slightly over? And I should feel great? Right? And TSH will be in the toilet? lol Just trying to understand so I get it right. Of course factoring in a little of "it's on a individual basis" but for the most part?

nonstickpam107 · 06-05-2008, 10:43 AM

For the most part, if FT4 is about midway of it's range, and FT3 is also at midway, you should feel 'human' again, lol. (With me, personally, my FT3 is almost at top of range, but there are a lot of docs who won't let ya do that...and I'm taking a large amount of steroids, and other meds for my other autoimmune diseases, so I tend to need 'more'.

Let's see.maybe this will help: Most women who take Armour are taking between 2 and 3.5 grains as a stabilized dosage. I don't see many above 3.5 grains (but I know a few who are taking 6 grains plus...just a few, and I know a couple of women only taking 1 grain for life, but 'most' are within those parameters). Some lucky individuals actually convert there T4 very well and feel like crap on any additional T3 too...so it's really individual. Oh, and it takes quite some time to go up in dosage once you hit the 1.5 grains mark,,,if you move 'too fast' you'll go hyper and have to start ALL OVER AGAIN, so don't push for more than you are adapted t

05-30-2008, 11:02 AM	#1892
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	I wonder why it is that NOT ONE female taking ONLY synthetic T3 is feeling well?? Not ONE (I just looked at my notes and I've heard from over 167 doing this regimen) feels well. I didn't. And I COULD afford time released..it made me feel antsy one minute, just down the next. Armour at 3 grains in summer and 3.5 grains in winter is what did the trick. You might want to try going back to Armour. I know that doesn't work well with doctors who are 'too quick' to want to push the patient to synthetics...they don't 'get it' that we need to get beyond the 2 grain mark (slowly..very slowly) in order to optimize..they give up when they see the 90mg. mark and then push to synthetics. Armour has: 37mcg. T4 and about 9mg. T3. It should be dosed in 'splits'...I split mine in half, some split it three times and sleep better with the lowest split before bedtime. I just feel horrible on ONLY Cytomel, feel even worse on ONLY synthetic T4 and feel just right on Armour (it mimics the natural human thyroid well). Pam __________________ So many fireworks. So little time. "The thyroid is nothing to mess with" ... Sunset

06-01-2008, 06:36 PM	#1897
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	Hi Pam! Here are my test results after taking 100mcg of levothyroxine for about 7 weeks. I asked my doctor to test free T3 & T4. T4 free- 1.4 range .8-1.8 T3 free- 303 range 230-420 TSH 2.59 range .4-4.50 At the same visit I asked to try armour and since she RX's that for other patients she switched me to 1.5gr of it. I feel much better already. The levothyroxine didn't make me feel better at all. So a big thank you for all your information! I really felt like I knew what I was talking about at this visit thanks to you and all that you've posted. I go back in three weeks for another blood test and will be curious to see what the difference is now that I am on the armour. Thanks for all your time and energy! Penny __________________ I my husband!

06-03-2008, 02:14 PM	#1908
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	nodule on thyroid Hi Pam~ Last week I had a ultrasound on my thyroid because of a small bump on my throat. My doctor just called and said there is a small, 6mm, nodule on my thyroid. She is referring me to an endo because she doesn't know what to do. Do you have any thoughts about this? Thanks! Penny P.S. I have the hashimoto's if that makes any difference. I guess nodules are more common. Last edited by pennylovesdarren : 06-03-2008 at 02:22 PM. Reason: to add the p.s.

06-03-2008, 02:22 PM	#1909
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Most of us with Hashimoto's have nodules. I had a multinodular thyroid...meaning tons of them. But, depending on what the nodule looks like to the endo..the endo may FNB it (fine needle biopsy to rule out cancer....they just aspirate the nodule IF it looks suspicious...it's not a surgery, doesn't take long, little pressure and then..that's it, may have some swelling at the needle site later...and a little redness, but not a big deal). ETA: Most patients see nodules 'disappear' if they are OPTIMIZED with thyroid hormone, particularly with T3 hormone. Your doctor is doing the right thing though...although don't expect the endo to 'know more' or 'treat better' than the doc you've got. Pam Last edited by nonstickpam107 : 06-03-2008 at 02:24 PM.

05-30-2008, 02:03 PM	#1894
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Here ya go: Dr. Geoffrey S. Ames, Holistic/complementary/alternative MD, 750 Swift Blvd. #1, Richland, Washington, 99352, Ph/Fax: (509) 943-3934 (In Richland, not Seattle, but so MANY love this doctor, I added it in..most of us have to travel a couple hours ONE way driving to see a good thyroid doctor yanno...there are only two REALLY great ones in MY state). Kenneth Gross, MD, Endocrinology Virginia Mason, 1100 Ninth Ave., Seattle, WA 98101 (206) 223-6621, http://www.virginiamason.org/dbPhysi...sician2570.asp (Said to Rx. Armour Thyroid, and treats the symptoms, also likes well informed patients). Dr. Robert Murray, Polyclinic on Broadway. http://www.polyclinic.com/op_name.htm (Uses synthetics, but does FT's and will use synthetic T3 as well as T4, you MUST have a referral from another doctor to see him). Dr Rebecca Wynsome ND, Water's Edge Natural Health Services, 150 Nickerson Street, Suite 211, Seattle WA 98109 Phone: 206-283-1383. (She's a Broda Barnes trained doctor, and Rx's Armour) AND..I was SO normal...TSH of .25 or so and three weeks later was in ICU in myxedema coma. I made sure to make an appointment with three of the five doctors I'd seen previously and show them what they did to me...they don't like me...awww...(all five of them don't have very many thyroid patients anymore either..wonder how THAT happened??!! So confusing!!). Best of luck to you, Pam

06-01-2008, 12:12 AM	#1895
stellastarr* Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3 Gallery: stellastarr*	Pam, I can't thank you enough for these names... I think I have a long journey ahead, but with more knowledge and a good physician on my side it will definitely help! Thanks Again, Stellastarr*

06-01-2008, 09:31 PM	#1898
SSin-Deb Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 544 Gallery: SSin-Deb Stats: starting weight 270 WOE: Somersizing Start Date: February, 2001	I'm just reading this whole forum for the first time, skipped to the last page and noticed Dr. Ames mentioned in post #1894 - he's my doctor! Small world... I'm also on Armour as I'm now hypo after 2 ablations with RAI. Wish I'd gone to Dr. Ames prior to the ablations.. Okay - now back to the beginning to read, this is going to take a while - what a thread!! Ü

06-02-2008, 12:09 AM	#1899
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	Hi SSin Deb~ I know you from the SS site! Gorgeous picture!

06-02-2008, 10:39 AM	#1902
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	Thanks Pam! I will schedule appointment in five weeks so the "old T4" will be out of my system. I love ya girl for all your help! I feel so much happier now. Tomorrow I will split the dose into am/early pm. I am so jazzed to feel fabulous again. It has totally changed my state of mind. P.S. I told my doctor all about my online thyroid patient advocate! 'Course in a very polite respectful manner because I my doctor. (even more so now!)

06-02-2008, 10:48 AM	#1903
SSin-Deb Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 544 Gallery: SSin-Deb Stats: starting weight 270 WOE: Somersizing Start Date: February, 2001	Wow! Yes - I remember you too pennyloves darren! Are you still Somersizing? Or doing Atkins? I love this site!! Thanks on the compliment on my picture - I need to update that, it's a couple years old now... nice to 'see' you again! I love your picture too! Pam ~ I was just surprised when I saw Dr. Ames name in the post - ha. In fact, I have my appt. tomorrow (thyroid and other hormones). I hope to start reading this thread from the beginning soon. Yes, I do believe it could be a book! Ü

06-02-2008, 03:22 PM	#1907
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	There's a lot of us that are travelling quite some ways to see a doctor that we like, ya know? I travel about 1.75 hours one way. But then again, once we get 'stabilized' on our hormones...we only have to go once/twice a year, so I guess it's worth it for most of us. One more thing. I've said it before...I'll say it again. IF you have a doctor that will do combo synthetic...synthetic T4 and Cytomel...if you can get him/her to up dosage till YOU feel good, that's great. But please (for these people who's docs do combo) don't think you are going to be 'making' that doc give you natural Armour or Westhroid. And you wouldn't want them too, trust me. Most docs who do combo synthetic, tend to underreplace with Armour. Armour (and Westhroid) dumps the TSH to below range (and that's enough to send docs screaming, ripping your meds out your hand!)...and the doc MUST go by FT's to titrate. Thus the patient who makes her/his doc do natural when the doc is NOT well versed, end up woefully underreplaced and miserable. For those who are searching for an affordable doc...you might want to look up and google 'Anti aging docs in _____ (put city/state here)' and also 'Doctors of Osteopathy in _______'. DO's tend to have much training in thyroid disease and treating with Armour and natural thyroid. And anti aging docs go by symptoms and aren't afraid to test and adjust adrenals. Pam

06-03-2008, 02:28 PM	#1910
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	Thanks Pam for the super speedy reply! Doesn't sound like a big deal. I split my armour dosage today. Yay! I expect to have more energy now throughout the afternoon. Those pills are surprisingly easy to break in half!

06-03-2008, 03:51 PM	#1911
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	I use an inexpensive pill cutter (from W-mart) and that's really easy too. Now...you know you just started on Armour...and you'll 'know' when you need more...cuz you'll get what we term 'the crash', lol. You just all of a sudden start feeling the symptoms you felt before you started the Armour. Most docs who go by FT's (FT4, FT3) will know that you need to move up in dosage (some don't...if you're only getting a TSH..watch out) and that's when you'll need to move up SLOWLY...like 1/4 to 1/2 grain for a couple months, then re test. Hope that nodule is 'nuttin'! Pam

06-04-2008, 01:49 PM	#1912
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	I am saving all this info. Pam to a designated thyroid file so when I go in again I will remember it all! Last time I printed it all off so I could discuss it with my doctor. I just keep cutting and pasting with the dates of new info. I saw your one post that said most women need between 18 - 30 mg of T3 and since I'm only at 12 mg I will definitely be paying attention to how I feel. I will keep asking to have the FT's tested since the first two times they weren't. The first time I was told my thyroid was fine. haha Second time, a year or so later, same test, but told it wasn't AND then when I said my mom had thyroid problems, they went back and tested for hashi's. Guess what? That's what I had so now I am much more educated and will have the FT's done. No disrespect to my doctor though. Sounds like doctors make this mistake frequently. She is fantastic and very willing to do what is best for me.

06-04-2008, 02:16 PM	#1913
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,983 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Well, it's one thing to GET FT's, it's quite another to have the doctor be able to interpret them. T3 is something that is 'individual' and should be 'split' as it's only a 4 hour half life. Armour has: 37mcg. T4 and 9mg. of T3...and it's dosed 'differently'...but should always be titrated using FT's NOT the TSH. TSH means nuttin' with Armour. Armour dumps it in the toilet and keeps it there, even though you aren't 'optimized' yet. So docs who aren't looking at the actual hormones (T4, T3) won't understand that just cuz the TSH is a blip on the radar you aren't still aren't 'up to par' yet. Pam

06-04-2008, 06:54 PM	#1914
pennylovesdarren MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,151 Gallery: pennylovesdarren	Okay so when they are optimized T3 will be on the upper 3/4 of the range and T4 should be in the middle of the range or slightly over? And I should feel great? Right? And TSH will be in the toilet? lol Just trying to understand so I get it right. Of course factoring in a little of "it's on a individual basis" but for the most part?