Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[nonstickpam107]

Please do have the TPO re-done, you'll need that to rule in/out Hashimoto's. And those test results would be considered 'subclinical' (you already know that, having already met a TSH worshipping doctor, sigh). Here's the list from above for another Arizonian:

Gilberto Leon, Naturopathic Physician, 600 S Dobson Rd #D - 33, Chandler, Arizona 85224, 480-857-3484.
One of the best...believes in Armour Thyroid!

Judith Hunt, MD, General practice/internist/primary care, 708 Couer D'Alene, Payson, AZ, 85541, 928 474 1714.
Hypothyroid herself, treat with both Armour and Cytomel

Ralph J. Luciani, DO, MS, Integrative Medicine, 1530 W. Glendale Ave, Phoenix, AZ 85021 Phone: 602-242-4024 Southwest Aesthetic and Integrative Medicine, health@drluciani.com.
Works with Armour Thyroid and well versed in bio identical hormones!!

Please do also use the docfinder on the website at ArmourThyroid and make sure to call ahead and make SURE the doc goes by FT's and actually does use Armour for a good number of patients. Good luck!

Pam

[meli57]

I had seen those names posted, but I was wondering if there was anyone in the Tucson area--I don't mind driving the distance to the Phoenix area doctors, but the traffic is deadly. Yes, I'll have the antibodies test redone--I know I need all the ammunition I can find to be treated.

Thanks again.

[nonstickpam107]

meli, I have to travel over two hours one way, and most of us in 'difficult states' have to do that to find a good doctor. I went through five doctors, one of which left me so very sick (my TSH was quite low, .20 yet he never checked my FT's..which were so far under range, the FT3 didn't register) that I almost died. My state has two famously good thyroid doctors (one of them is my thyroid doctor) and a COUPLE who can be 'coaxed' into giving the patient Armour...and your state isn't much better. I know three patients from Arizona who are flying into other states to be treated for both thyroid and bioidentical HRT (they are lucky they can afford that!).

Pam

[mrshelenmarie]

Hi Pam,
I had the blood work done at the lab you recommended. Could you please tell me what you think???? I have an appt in June with Dr RM Harrell, of Ft Lauderdale. Although he's on my insurance plan, I'm not sure he's the one. I broke down on the phone when they told me his first available appointment was October; seems the receptionist had some empathy and SQUEEZED me in. The reason I want to stick within my plan is the goiter issue. I feel so tight in the neck, makes me think it's grown. I've been so dizzy and utterly confused; my focus is so off, it's almost as if I can feel the disconnect in my head. Let me know what you think of the tests. Thanks so much!!!!! Helen

Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <10 0-34 IU/mL

Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 0-40 IU/mL
Siemens (DPC) ICMA Methodology

TSH 1.643 0.350-5.500 uIU/mL
Adult TSH concentrations below 5.5 uIU/mL do not
rule out the presence of subclinical hypothyroidism.

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 2.8 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T4,Free(Direct) 1.11 0.61-1.76 ng/dL

[nonstickpam107]

Well, you don't have Hashimoto's at this point, no antibodies are showing. Your conversion from FT4 to FT3 is..um..not even there. That could be from something you're eating/taking...from low iron to perimeno/meno...to birth control, to eating too few carbs/calories, to eating soy and suppressing.

You really need to have an ultrasound/and then follow up testing if there are nodules/cysts on the thyroid. There's a patient recommend on that doctor, but .. um..that he'll add T3 to T4 (meaning synthetic, but that's ok..) and that he ultrasounds, and is very attentive. So, that's a good place to start, I'm glad they could fit you in. Oh, and that doctor is also supportive of lowcarb eating, so that's a plus. Let me know how it all turns out..anytime a goiter is growing, you need to find out why.

Pam

[mrshelenmarie]

Pam..............please excuse my ignorance. What exactly did you mean about my FT4 to FT3 conversion? I have been using USP Progesterone cream for years, must be peri-meno, only a few periods a year, no BC, 48yrs old. I was rejected when I tried to donate blood last month, they told me my iron was too low. I do eat some soy beans/edamame's occasionally. I wish I could tell you I'm not eating carbs or very low calories, not even close!!! My will power to diet has disappeared along with the person that I used to be. H

[nonstickpam107]

The thyroid makes T4. In order to get energy/feel good/active, etc., it must convert some of the T4 into T3 (the 'active' thyroid hormone). Your FT4 lab is good...but as you can see (the FT3 labs should be at LEAST as high as FT4, usually higher), your FT3 lab is quite low. Usually this is an indication that you are taking some type of hormone (is that progesterone over the counter or Rx'd compounded..the over the counter stuff is no more than just wild yam, which can bind thyroid hormones in the bloodstream much worse than what's compounded especially for YOU).

Soy binds thyroid hormone in the bloodstream and if it's a large part of your diet, that can hurt too..a little goes a long way. And low iron...well, that's a real problem...low enough, and it inhibits thyroid hormones.

But what I would be MOST concerned about is the fact that you have a diagnosed goiter (a goiter is the thyroid itself, swelling up) that is getting even larger. And that's why you need to see the doctor right away, to rule out any type of cancer in the thyroid. (Thyroid cancer is the most treatable form of cancer you can have....if you HAD to have cancer, that's the type you'd want..not that anyone wants cancer).

Pam

[laurawd]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

So far, Maine is full of doctors who 'listened to me'!!! As we all know, we need more than just listened to, sigh. I'll keep checking.

ETA: I'm back...and Boston (as most of us know) is full of doctors who 'take out thyroids', do 'hyper care on just a TSH' and "Goes by TSH only" (PLEASE..someone come in here and prove me wrong!...looking for a doc that does FT's, goes by those and Rx's enough Armour to make the difference!)

Here's my picks in Massuchusett's:
Dr. Beverly Wedda, Holistic Family Practice, 340 Maple Street, Suite 300, Marlborough, MA 01752 774-463-0001, http://www.choiceswellness.org/bev_wedda.html.

Barry Elson, MD 2 Maple Ave Suite 52 Northampton, MA 01060 413-584-7787

Dr. Darren Lynch, clinical nutrition, mind/body medicine, homeopathy, and Ayurveda, 395 Pleasant Street Northampton, MA 01060, 413-584-7787, http://www.northamptonwellness.com/s...x.shtml#darren

Pam

THANK YOU!

[Gracie514]

Hi Pam
I read something interesting yesterday about acetaminophen. It said that taking acetaminophen can affect your conversion of T4 to T3, have you ever heard that before? It eluded to something about acetamiphen going through the liver and that's where the conversion also takes place. I found it very interesting seeing that I do take acetaminophen often and my FT4 was high but my FT3 was low. For PMS I take Pamprin and for allergy sypmtoms I take Tylenol Allergy, both of which have acetaminophen. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks! You rock

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by Gracie514

Hi Pam
I read something interesting yesterday about acetaminophen. It said that taking acetaminophen can affect your conversion of T4 to T3, have you ever heard that before? It eluded to something about acetamiphen going through the liver and that's where the conversion also takes place. I found it very interesting seeing that I do take acetaminophen often and my FT4 was high but my FT3 was low. For PMS I take Pamprin and for allergy sypmtoms I take Tylenol Allergy, both of which have acetaminophen. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks! You rock

That's an old 'unproven' one, ah ha! Doctor's use that to 'explain' why they don't GIVE T3 to patients too (or used to...when dinosaurs roamed the earth!). You see, if conversion really DID all take place in the liver...than none of us would NEED any T3...now would we? Conversion from T4 to T3 only occurring in the liver was what they used to peddle synthetic T4 ONLY (when Armour was doing the job right)...when the patient says "But I'm not converting, see how low my FT3 is" the doc answers "You don't need to worry...I'll just give you synthetic T4 ONLY and your liver will convert it".

My thoughts are that it is PROVEN that birth control, soy and HRT and BHRT bind WAY more conversion in the BLOODSTREAM and BRAIN (where the most important conversion of T4 to T3 actually takes place).

So, bottom line: I take Tylenol. I take seven other meds too. Two of the meds are steroids. My doctor looks at my FT's, and then RAISES my medication if it is being bound. And the only way to really TELL if it IS being bound...is to do FREE T's, not total, and not using TSH as a reference as to conversion.

But thanks for bringing this up...I haven't heard the ol' 'don't take that it'll stop conversion' in a long time. OH, and calcium and iron bind all conversion...and the incoming T4 if you take it within four to six hours of taking your med...all others goitrogens bind in the bloodstream..so it's not going to matter when you take Tylenol or anything else. Only thing that matters is getting a good doctor to test correctly and then add more if you need it.

Pam

[Gracie514]

Thanks Pam, I should've figured it was a bunch of bullcrap!

[nonstickpam107]

Well, it's not 'bullcrap' so much as it is..um..just a portion of the 'story'. Many meds bind thyroid hormones in the bloodstream...but those same meds are crucial to a person's health. Those whose TSH's are about a 1 (or under), have a midway of lab range FT4 and a very LOW FT3 should be looking at what causes that:

low iron
low ferritin
low progesterone/perimenopause
low carbs along WITH low calories
eating soy, or taking other estrogens/HRT

Pam

[jodar01]

Hey Pam,

Can I please have the names of the doctors in Canada that you mentioned in the other post? Mine doesn't seem to think any other tests are needed. TIA

Jodi

[nonstickpam107]

Jodi, I will give you the patient recommended list (because it's become very nice for your country!!...as far as getting the correct tests, adrenal support AND dessicated natural thyroid.

Dr. Rod Santos, Naturopathic Physician, 4071 Kingsway, V6B 5Z4, 604 439-1230, drsantos@telus.net. Vancouver Chelation clinic, Burnaby Chelation Clinic Vancouver Chelation therapy Burnaby Chelation Therapy Surrey Chelation Coquitlam Chelation therapy New Westminister Chelation Richmond Chelation North Vancouver Chelation BC Chelation Canada Chelat
(Said to use dessicated natural thyroid).

Dr. Samuel Weisz Internal Medicine Meadowlark Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
(patient reports this doctor also will use dessicated natural thyroid, as well as add Cytomel (synthetic T3 to synthetic T4).

Dr. T. Trethart, Nutrional medicine, 10303-65 Ave, Edmonton, Alberta T6H 1V1, 1-780-433-7401
(Said to also use dessicated).

Dr. Barry Breger, MD, 1141, boulevard Saint-Joseph Est, Montreal, QC H2J 1L3, Tel. : 514-277-1141
(Rx's Cytomel or natural).

Dr. Edward Ragan, GP, complimentary medicine, 150 Billings Avenue, Ottawa. (613) 737-3939
(Does FT's, Rx's bioidentical HRT, said to be 'all that and a bag of chips'...although costly..you get what you pay for).

Dr. Jennifer Tanski, Family Medicine, A-3010 Arlington Avenue, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, 306-374-2777
(Will give dessicated thyroid).

NavI Badesha, Naturopathic Doctor, #150 13737 72 Ave, Surrey, BC, V3W2P2, Ph/Fax: 604 592-4448, newtonnaturopathic.com, drbadesha@yahoo.ca
Dr. Leonard Direnfeld, M.D., Unit 3, 3600 Ellesmere Road, Toronto ON M1C 4Y8, 416 282-5773
(This doctor is brilliant!).

The name of the doctor I was talking about is not on this list...but is behind in scheduling for about a YEAR now..very expensive, and I reserve his particulars for those already having seen many doctors, needing adrenal care/BHRT, etc. If none of the above help, OR if you have an unusual adrenal/thyroid case, than you might still need his info.

I hope this helps you!

Pam

[maybell]

Dear Pam,
My friends hair has been falling out (exactly 3 months after she changed her diet, started exercising and losing weight) so she had her thyroid rechecked.
I told her I may be able to get some feedback from this board as to whether or not she should ask to have her meds adjusted.
Any advice at all would be much appreciated.
This has happened to her once before and she went off her thyroid medication (with horrible consequences) but now she realizes that last time her hair fell out she had lost a bunch of weight after increasing her exercise.
She doesn't want to decrease her meds again if she doesn't have to.

TSH 0.04
FT3 3.9
FT4 1.1
She is 46 years old if that helps and is currently being treated with both synthroid and T3.

Thank you for all of your help always

[maybell]

Sorry!
I meant to start a new thread. I didn't mean to interrupt any dialog still going on here.
Anyhow pam if you read this and can make sense of her test results that would be lovely

[dooy]

Originally Posted by maybell

Sorry!
I meant to start a new thread. I didn't mean to interrupt any dialog still going on here.
Anyhow pam if you read this and can make sense of her test results that would be lovely

Maybell, usually Pam need sto see the lab ranges for each of these numbers for her to really help. It would be a good idea to post the lab ranges as soon as possible so she can give you a complete answer.

Oh, and you're NOT interrupting the thread! This is exactly why it's here!

[nonstickpam107]

Maybell, yes, I need the exact lab ranges used by THAT lab to interpret. I also need to know if the woman is on any type of HRT (including soy and birth control pills) and what dosage of T4 and T3 she is taking, and WHEN during the day. I also need to know WHAT time she took the T3 (and how much) in relation to what time she had the testing done. Thanks.

Pam

[maybell]

I really appreciate all the help.

here goes:
TSH 0.04 lab range: 0.34-5.60
T4 free, serum 1.11 lab range: 0.58-1.64
T3 free, serum 3.9 lab range: 2.0-3.8

She is on 5 mcg. of cytomel and 112 mcg. of levothyroxine
She takes them everyday between 9 and 10 a.m. in the morning.
She didn't take anything before the blood test that morning since it was at 8:30 a.m

she said she has been eating a small amount of soy lately

Thank you so much!!!!

[jodar01]

Thanks Pam. I am a 2 hour drive from Ottawa so I'm going to give Dr Ragan's office a call. Thanks again!

Jodi

[nonstickpam107]

Maybell, if she doesn't 'feel too well' it may be because her FT3 is above range...and if she took NO Cytomel before those blood tests, than that's really strange (perhaps she forgot that she DID take the Cytomel..cuz if she didn't...that's too high). Those tests are indicative of someone taking their Cytomel right before the testing (about two hours before). If she took no Cytomel since the morning BEFORE the tests..than I, personally would want the testing re done without any Cytomel for a couple of weeks because CLEARLY she already converts T4 in to T3.

Pam

[stellastarr*]

Wow, so much thyroid expertise here... I was wondering if I might be able to get some opinions on my situation.

I'm a 31-yr-old female with a family history of hypothyroid issues (from both my mom and dad's families) and I'm currently on the birth control Yasmin.

When I was in for my annual physical in December, my GP performed a basic blood test. I received a letter stating that my thyroid levels came back low and to have another blood test in 4-6 months. I just received results from my second test and the Dr. says the level is back to normal with no explanation for what could cause the variation. One thing that comes to mind for me (and something my Dr. is also aware of) is that in December I was temporarily off of my BCPs. Could that have an effect?

My Dr. kept using the terms low and normal, but upon further probing I found out that the December test showed .24 and this month's tests came back at .45. They say a normal range would be .40 - .50. My Dr. doesn't have any concerns with the difference in the two tests or see any need for retests in another 4-6 months. She keeps telling me that because it's showing normal I shouldn't be concerned, but with hypothyroidism so underdiagnosed I'm not sure if I should accept that or maybe seek a second opinion with an endocrinologist.

Can anyone share an interpretation of what my numbers might mean? Are they indeed normal (I know opinion on this varies)? Has anyone else had strong variations in test results over time? All comments appreciated.

Thanks,

Stellastarr*

[maybell]

Dear pam,
Thanks so much I will pass this on. She feels great it's just that her hair is falling out so hence the suspicion.
She could very well have forgotten that she took her Cytomel because she is quite forgetful.
Thanks again
maybell

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by stellastarr*

Wow, so much thyroid expertise here... I was wondering if I might be able to get some opinions on my situation.

I'm a 31-yr-old female with a family history of hypothyroid issues (from both my mom and dad's families) and I'm currently on the birth control Yasmin.

When I was in for my annual physical in December, my GP performed a basic blood test. I received a letter stating that my thyroid levels came back low and to have another blood test in 4-6 months. I just received results from my second test and the Dr. says the level is back to normal with no explanation for what could cause the variation. One thing that comes to mind for me (and something my Dr. is also aware of) is that in December I was temporarily off of my BCPs. Could that have an effect?

My Dr. kept using the terms low and normal, but upon further probing I found out that the December test showed .24 and this month's tests came back at .45. They say a normal range would be .40 - .50. My Dr. doesn't have any concerns with the difference in the two tests or see any need for retests in another 4-6 months. She keeps telling me that because it's showing normal I shouldn't be concerned, but with hypothyroidism so underdiagnosed I'm not sure if I should accept that or maybe seek a second opinion with an endocrinologist.

Can anyone share an interpretation of what my numbers might mean? Are they indeed normal (I know opinion on this varies)? Has anyone else had strong variations in test results over time? All comments appreciated.

Thanks,

Stellastarr*

I would need the copy of the test...and there is no such thing as 'one test for thyroid'. I think you are talking about the TSH test...and that's NO indication you do or do not have hypothyroidism.

You need the following: TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and if the FT's come back low, you need TPO antibodies to rule out Hashimoto's (which is most likely because of family involvement). NO one should have to be treated by a doctor who ONLY goes by TSH.

Please go back and read this thread..it answered your questions. TSH means absolutely NOTHING. My TSH was LOWER than yours and I was very ill...TSH is a test of your pituitary. Many doctors think it is the 'gold standard' for thyroid tests...it is NOT and never will be.

If you want to save money/can't find a doctor to do the tests, you can order Thyroid Profile II at Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests they send you to a lab near YOU, and report back to you. Use checkout code: 12345 for a discount. It costs under 90 dollars.

ETA: if that's your TSH and the doc is saying it should be between a 4 and a 5..RUN!!! That's ridiculous. And also, endo's do great diabetes, not always great thyroid. If you'd like to say what state you are in, I can possibly give you names of doctors who REALLY know how to treat better. Also, just ask her for TSH, FREE T4 and FREE T3 (NOT a "T3 Uptake" if that doc says a T3 uptake is a measurement of T3...um, you need another doctor for SURE).

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by maybell

Dear pam,
Thanks so much I will pass this on. She feels great it's just that her hair is falling out so hence the suspicion.
She could very well have forgotten that she took her Cytomel because she is quite forgetful.
Thanks again
maybell

Hair can fall out if the person isn't getting adequate nutrition, is over doing...OR is over medicated. She needs to see her doctor.

Pam

[maybell]

She saw her doctor that took the blood for these tests and he told her that all of her results were normal.
I told her I would ask on here just to double check because I know what it is like to be mis-diagnosed.
She has had her hair fall out before years ago after she started losing weight. The same thing is happening now after a few months of dieting and really working out harder then she has in years.

I was just curious if her test results seemed alarming at all.
I called and asked her if she took Cytomel before her test and am waiting to hear back. If she didn't I will tell her your recommendation of re-testing after a few weeks of not taking it.