Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure? - Page 57

n.texasgirl · 02-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Pam,

Thanks for the advice. I will cut down what I am taking and see if that helps. I swing back and forth from high to low all the time. Last year at this time I was really low which is how I ended up taking 180mg. I've asked to have my thyroid out several times just because I hate going back and forth.

I asked the dr about the high T3/T4 , and she said yes they were, for this week but that they would be down shortly.

I have never checked on my progesterone levels. I will see about getting that checked at HealthCheckUSA. My thyroid dr is several hours from me and my local town doctors are awful.

I want to tell you my story because that little baby on my avatar would not be here if it weren't for you.

I have always been in pain. Since as far back as I can remember, I have never slept well, always had migraines, back pain, leg pain, hand pain ect. By the time I was 8, I was diagnosed with scoliosis, migrains, tmj, hip problems, flat feet. The trips to specialists just kept mounting as the years went by. At 18, the doctor found a lump in my throat, did a thyroid scan and was told I had a nodule. It was biopsied, found to be benign. I was sent for repeated tests but never tested for Hashi's.

I also started having terrible pain and muscle cramping all over when I was pregnant. As soon as I gave birth it went away. I never got a good diagnosis despite my repeated attempts at multiple doctors.

Fast forward 7 years, and I moved to Texas with my dh and 4 children. After we had been here a year I started having terrible pain all over. I barely walked. I would crawl, dragging my body by my arms on the floor to the bathroom then be unable to get back up again. Normally, I only had this kind of pain when I was pregnant. But I wasn't pregnant. In fact, I was unable to maintain a pregnancy past 8 weeks. I could get pregnant easily enough. I did several times and always 3-4 weeks later I would miscarry.

November 2006, I went to the dr again asking for another set of thyroid tests. He rolled his eyes but ran them. My TSH was .03 and he told me I was hyper. I weighed 203 lbs. I had always been thin, never overweight unless pg then lost it all quickly afterward. Now he was telling me that gaining 60lbs in one year was all my fault because I was eating too much. He discounted everything I said even the multpiple miscarriages.

December 2006- a lady from a homeschool blog pasted a link to this exact thread. I read every word several times. I was amazed how similar so many stories were to my own. I started working my way down the list of thyroid drs that were located within 4 hours of me. At this point, I was unable to walk without assistance and had just found out I was pregnant yet again. I had even gone wheelchair shopping.

I spent hours on the phone begging for any doctor to take me. No one could see me without a referral. After two days of searching, I did find a cash-only doctor who could see me the very next day. I started on Armour that evening. After 2 months, my dosage was doubled because my T3 was going down, my TSH was going up while on 90mg. After it was doubled, my pain disappeared almost entirely.

After 8 months of being on Armour and years of being unable to maintain a pregnancy, I gave birth to a beautiful little girl.

Thank you.

-Andrea

dooy · 02-09-2008, 05:11 PM

This brought tears of gratitude! I'm so happy for you!!!

Pam, we love you soooo much around here!!!

Zer · 02-09-2008, 06:04 PM

While I keep looking for an MD to help me work out health issues, I'll check out this natural supplement. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Zer, you can get a supplement (natural) to help adrenals...Isocort. Ileen (inatic here at LCF) used it before she was adequately medicated by a doctor for thyroid, etc. But, I do feel badly for those of you who have HMO's...but still pretty glad to know about labs like healthcheckusa...you can't beat their prices!

I'm really hoping you 'luck out' and find a good doc (and it doesn't HAVE to be an endocrinologist...I've found DO's that are very good, and naturopathics that really know their stuff too) while learning about thyroid. If I can be of any help to you, please don't hesitate to PM me or post.

Pam

I'm resigned to paying cash for an MD outside my HMO. Once I get a dx, I may be able to make use of HMO - but it's hopeless to look to this HMO for dx. I've come to believe they just do not "do" diagnoses at all. Too many philosophical discussions about "why bother with a dx if there's no cure or treatment" as I seek to get an MD to look into Dercum's as a possible dx for some pain that persists beyond reason. Sigh. But first, let's get this adrenal or thyroid thing working. It would be good to feel less tired, if I can.

nonstickpam107 · 02-10-2008, 06:11 AM

Andrea, your post made me cry (good tears), thank you so very much for your kind words.

That baby is precious!

Let's go back in your timeline though:

1. Your progesterone is highest when you are pregnant. That's when you felt close to 'normal' (well at least for a few weeks).
2. I think the aches/pains are from unbalanced progesterone/estradiol to the thyroid...one gets high (like your FT3...and is that a Free...or a Total as first quoted?) and one will be 'overpowered' (usually our progesterone, sigh).

The other thing I wanted to add is this: (I'm a Grandmother, eight times over, so you young women will have to answer this)

WHY have so MANY reproductive endocrinologists 'sprung up' in recent years and WHY do they NOT know how to do thyroid...when thyroid disease is one of the top reasons why a women can't conceive OR can't hold a pregnancy to term?

I know seven women now (..um, I'm not a 'miracle worker' who can help you get pregnant, but I can 'spot' the symptoms of thyroid disease pretty well) who have conceived and carried to term after obtaining thyroid hormone. Yet they were paying a huge sum of money to a repro endo.

Pam

Zer · 02-10-2008, 11:01 AM

Pam, someone on the Calif. Thyroid support list gave me a name of a local GP and I'll call his office first thing Monday - if I can wait 'til Monday! Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer

While I keep looking for an MD to help me....
... I'm resigned to paying cash for an MD outside my HMO. Once I get a dx, I may be able to make use of HMO - but it's hopeless to look to this HMO for dx. I've come to believe they just do not "do" diagnoses at all. Too many philosophical discussions about "why bother with a dx if there's no cure or treatment" as I seek to get an MD to look into Dercum's as a possible dx for some pain that persists beyond reason. Sigh. But first, let's get this adrenal or thyroid thing working. It would be good to feel less tired, if I can.

n.texasgirl · 02-10-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

The other thing I wanted to add is this: (I'm a Grandmother, eight times over, so you young women will have to answer this)

WHY have so MANY reproductive endocrinologists 'sprung up' in recent years and WHY do they NOT know how to do thyroid...when thyroid disease is one of the top reasons why a women can't conceive OR can't hold a pregnancy to term?

I know seven women now (..um, I'm not a 'miracle worker' who can help you get pregnant, but I can 'spot' the symptoms of thyroid disease pretty well) who have conceived and carried to term after obtaining thyroid hormone. Yet they were paying a huge sum of money to a repro endo.

Pam

My sister has been unable to have any children for 6 1/2 years. No one, aside from me, has once mentioned for her to have her hormone levels checked. She, like me, can get pregnant but can't carry to term. She will be having them checked through healthcheck next month. I will be going as well to check on my prog/estra.

BTW- I took your advice and cut my dose in half yesterday and today. I feel so much better. Should it work that quickly? I woke up this morning and all my pain was gone. My jaw is still pretty bad, but it always is. My husband thinks I am crazy. I have been running around the house cleaning, baking and chasing my kids around the yard. Yesterday I was laid out on the couch and had been for days.

"Let's go back in your timeline though:

1. Your progesterone is highest when you are pregnant. That's when you felt close to 'normal' (well at least for a few weeks).
2. I think the aches/pains are from unbalanced progesterone/estradiol to the thyroid...one gets high (like your FT3...and is that a Free...or a Total as first quoted?) and one will be 'overpowered' (usually our progesterone, sigh)."

Yes, those were my FT3s and FT4s I mentioned previously. How do I keep them balanced? My thyroid isn't non-functioning, it's intermittent; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I have been to dozens of doctors over the years and until I came here and read everything you had ever written on the subject, then actively sought out a doctor that did "thyroid"- I never had one doctor even mention to me that my thyroid might be the cause of all my problems. My OB is still suspicious of my thyroid doctor. I miscarried every 4 months until last December and never once, did any one say that it might be my thyroid. My family doctor didn't even want to run tests. Which didn't matter in the long run, since he ran the wrong tests.

I know you don't see yourself as a "miracle worker" but for those of us that couldn't conceive to finally be able to hold a little crying, breathing baby after months and years of heartache- well, you feel like a miracle worker.

Zer- I have an HMO. Mine is an open plan but still, I have to have referral to see a specialist. I pay cash for my doctor. It's not as much as you might think since their prices tend to be much lower than the insurance-taking doctors.

laurawd · 02-10-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Well, first off I wouldn't have taken the thyroid hormone before making sure my ferritin and iron came up. Low iron mimics thyroid disease and lowers thyroid hormones. Secondly, I'd make SURE my adrenals were good (4x salivary for adrenals testing) and what about your progesterone levels? Again, many of us slide into low thyroid when our progesterone starts to go down (perimeno...first thing that lowers is progesterone, not estradiol).

Are you eating soy? That also drops the FT's quite low (it being a phytoestrogen). Other than that...I'd really rather not take thyroid hormone until everything else is investigated with numbers like yours (you see, I see numbers UNDER range all the time with FT's and way over with TSH).

OR..the hormone you are taking is of low quality and is reflected in your testing. OR the testing is 'skewed' or isn't Free T's, but Total T's (just to cap off the entire list of reasons why

Pam

Thank you, Pam! I am not eating. I am going to take this advice and am going off thyroid meds for the moment (with doc's consultation), while working harder to get iron stores and levels up.

Best wishes!

nonstickpam107 · 02-11-2008, 05:58 AM

[quote=n.texasgirl;9924569]My sister has been unable to have any children for 6 1/2 years. No one, aside from me, has once mentioned for her to have her hormone levels checked. She, like me, can get pregnant but can't carry to term. She will be having them checked through healthcheck next month. I will be going as well to check on my prog/estra.

BTW- I took your advice and cut my dose in half yesterday and today. I feel so much better. Should it work that quickly? I woke up this morning and all my pain was gone. My jaw is still pretty bad, but it always is. My husband thinks I am crazy. I have been running around the house cleaning, baking and chasing my kids around the yard. Yesterday I was laid out on the couch and had been for days.

Yes, it works 'that fast', but the other way around...T4 has a half life of about two weeks, and lab tests don't show up till 6 weeks, so if you 'amp up' dosage, it lags, then hits all at once (a good reason to never self medicate!).

Hmm, you went down by half...you could probably try 2 grains, one in am, one about midway through day and see how ya feel...you'll need a pill splitter (we do creative pill cutting 101 here, heh heh).

Pam

Zer · 02-11-2008, 11:21 AM

When pill cutting, a doctor told me to take both halves in sequence, just in case the dosage is not quite balanced. A pharmacist told me that a pill that is marked is a better assurance that each half truly contains a half dosage. Another pharmacist looked confused when I ran that by him, as I was told to cut an uncreased tablet and was not at all sure that guaranteed me a true half dose in each half tablet. So sequential ingestion seems best. My T3 was a cytomel tablet with no center groove. So I cut one day, then took the 2d half the next day. Otherwise I might have chopped all the tabs at once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

...you'll need a pill splitter (we do creative pill cutting 101 here, heh heh).

Oh, I tried calling the thyroid MD at 10am, got the answering service. Will try again to reach the office and make an apptment when I get offline. My dial-up blocks incoming calls, diverts them to a msg tape. I hope I can get to see this MD. I feel so hopeful. Thanks!!!

PrettyPaula · 02-11-2008, 12:54 PM

Hey ladies, been reading some of this thread

i went to the doctors today with the following symptoms...

Hair loss and thinning
teenage skin (acne and dryness)
weight gain and unable to lose
poor sleep patterns
fatigue
depression
poor concentration
headaches and migraines

ive been eating right, and exercising, ive also quit smoking and i feel worse!

so i am there tomorrow morning for blood tests.

hoping something gets found! i feel like im going insane.

nonstickpam107 · 02-12-2008, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer

When pill cutting, a doctor told me to take both halves in sequence, just in case the dosage is not quite balanced. A pharmacist told me that a pill that is marked is a better assurance that each half truly contains a half dosage. Another pharmacist looked confused when I ran that by him, as I was told to cut an uncreased tablet and was not at all sure that guaranteed me a true half dose in each half tablet. So sequential ingestion seems best. My T3 was a cytomel tablet with no center groove. So I cut one day, then took the 2d half the next day. Otherwise I might have chopped all the tabs at once. Oh, I tried calling the thyroid MD at 10am, got the answering service. Will try again to reach the office and make an apptment when I get offline. My dial-up blocks incoming calls, diverts them to a msg tape. I hope I can get to see this MD. I feel so hopeful. Thanks!!!

Most of the over 130,000 thyroid patients taking Armour Thyroid have been 'creative pill cutting' for years and years. If we all did what YOUR doctor has told you, none of us would be well (and quite a few of us would probably be where YOU are too...stopping a hormone that is essential to life because the doc couldn't 'get it right' for us).

Cytomel is something I can't 'tolerate'..I MUST have natural meds for thyroid. Something more to keep in mind: It takes MONTHS and sometimes a year or so to stabilize a patient on hormones (this includes thyroid hormone). It is a disease that is 'treated'...meaning your levels will go up and down and so will the med, etc. Many think it is like giving an antibiotic...you go off and get well in a hurry. Not so. Than some doctors think it's like cookie cutters...we are all alike and they just give us whatever dosage of SYNTHETICS they throw at other patients 'just like us'.

It's a long road. It's worth the trek though. I'm hoping this doc really gets you started down the path of wellness.

Pam

Zer · 02-12-2008, 07:47 AM

I am definitely open to trying Armour. Just chicken to do it without an MD, as I read on some lists people are buying and trying out various dosages. Scary. It is somehow not so scary for me to stop drugs like levothroid and cytomel for a period, since I do not feel better or worse - with or without the drugs. What I ~DO~ notice is that trusting my body to function is easier for me than taking a pill that I seriously doubt will help.

I've been handed pills of all sorts for years. Most of them I've declined to take, saying the listed side effects were a LOT worse than the discomfort of getting along without the drugs. I've got hip pain now, but none of the side effects that so-called pain relievers gave me while not quite touching the pain itself. So I am hoping my thyroid and adrenals are working to meet my body's needs. If Armour can help, I'll be grateful. So very grateful.

I'm hopeful that I shall feel better. Not overnight. I understand that. Thanks for all the info and insights, as we all ask questions and report how we feel!

nonstickpam107 · 02-13-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer

I am definitely open to trying Armour. Just chicken to do it without an MD, as I read on some lists people are buying and trying out various dosages. !

No one is suggesting you take a licensed, prescribed hormone without an MD. Certainly not me, heh heh. And some of those people who 'think' they are getting Armour...they aren't, or they are getting a very 'washed' hormone (the T3 advertised in supp catalogs, and OTC as well as trying to get 'real' Armour isn't what it's cracked up to be. It's not anywhere NEAR as potent).

Most people who say that their thyroid hormone 'didn't do anything' for them aren't on a substantial dosage. And most are on T4 ONLY. And then their docs ONLY do TSH. Bah! That doesn't work, it's no wonder they didn't 'feel it'.

Also, beware of people who say they 'lose weight' on Armour/thyroid hormone...you might lose a bit of weight when first treated, but it's NOT a 'diet pill'. It just evens the playing field...when in correct dosage, we lose weight just like NON hypothyroid folks on an eating program.

Pam

PrettyPaula · 02-13-2008, 01:24 PM

Hey Pam

i went to the doctors monday with the following symptoms...

Hair loss and thinning
teenage skin (acne and dryness)
weight gain and unable to lose
poor sleep patterns
fatigue
depression
poor concentration and lack of motivation
headaches and migraines
low sex drive

these symptoms seem to come and go in waves, which is why i am now considering hashimotos as a maybe too?

when i get my results on monday i will get a copy and post here, i dont think they have done a freeT3, or freeT4...?? its very hard here as we dont pay our docs, we dont get to see a specialist unless referred.

i know she has requested a blood count, iron level, vit b12 level (family genetic dificiency just found), tsh, t3, t4 (assume uptake?) and progesterone, oestrogen?

I was a tall slim and athletic child, up until around the age of 10-11 when i caught whooping cough whilst in Florida and then developed asthma, i was put on steroids for a year or so when i was off them i had lost my mega quick metabolism and skinny body, to be replaced by a fat one i cannot shift 70% of the time, then all of a sudden i feel great and lose weight, but it always piles back on. i am not a binge eater or over eater, i am active even when not doing extra exercise which i am right now!

i was diagnosed with depression 2 years ago and began citalopram then, i also had some therapy only to find no possible mental cause, must be physical and dr left it at that. never questioned it really until now.

im petrified that everything will come back normal (as it did 2 yrs ago) and i will be stuck! this time i intend to go armed with as much info on new "normal" ranges and freeT3 and freeT4 numbers as i can find and to hopefully fully understand what they all mean.

Also if i can find out if you know of any links between steroids and hypothyroid or genetic autoimmune traits being linked?

HelenM · 02-13-2008, 05:51 PM

Hi Pam,

I'm 53 and been menopausal for 5 yrs with lots of symptoms I kept hoping would end, but never did. The hot flashes, brain fog and night sweats were unbearable. I tried over the counter stuff, but it didn't work.

My new GYN recently put me on Vivelle Dot (started at .025 in Nov 07, and since Feb 08 I'm on .1 daily) as well as Prometrium 100mg. 1x a day for 14 days a month. I love the patch,

and had been using a compounded RX Progesterone cream 1g/60g from my family doctor, but the GYN said that the pill was more predictable as to dosage and switched me. The hot flashes/night sweats are now much less frequent, and the brain fog feels a little better.

Some history:
I have had problems with my thyroid in the past and even had radioactive iodine swallow (1985) since I had an infection in the gland (or they thought it may have been cancer - but it was just swollen). I regularly got checkups, thinking that my metabolism was off, but the only tests they ever ran was the TSH - which they said was fine.

I had an extensive thyroid panel run about a year ago by a different doctor. He would not agree to the Armour trial, but instead put me on Cytomel since he said the T3 was low. Cytomel made me nervous and jumpy, with heart palps, and I didn't stay on it long, maybe a few weeks.

Anyway, my new family doctor wanted to run tests again this month since I was now using HRT, and here's the results (I was using the .1 Vivelle Dot at the time of the tests with the Prometrium.):

FSH.... 59.80 mIU.ml
LH..... 39.30 mIU/ml
Estradiol... 73.10 pg/ml

TSH.... 1.34 uIU/ML (.4-4.0)
T4 Free Direct..... 1.48 ng/dL (.80-1.90)
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free, Serum...... 2.57 pg/mL (1.80-4.2)

I had these tests done in 2007, and didn't rerun them:
Thyroid Antibodies:
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab... <10 IU/mL (0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab... <20 IU/mL (0-40)
Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglob...112% (<130)

All my other 2008 blood work was fine (CBC w/ Diff & platelets and Comp. Metabolic Panel)

The only exception was my Calcium was too low, which he attributed to me not taking enough calcium supplements.
Calcium 8.3 mg/dl (8.5-10.1)

My family doctor looked over the test results, and said the thyroid looked ok. I pointed out the T3, and also told him that I had a lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism, and asked since my T3 was on the low side whether I could do a trial of Armour Thyroid to see if my symptoms improve. To my shock, he agreed! I am now taking 30 mg of Armour once a day. It seems to be going ok after only a few days.

When should I get my thyroid retested, and should I try to get a stronger prescription in time? He said to contact his office anytime. He is really a wonderful doctor! He said he wants to run the iron, ferritin and some other tests, too. He is very easy to work with. I am so thankful to have found him.

My question is, where do I go from here? I have an appointment in March with my GYN to see about the estrogen patch. She said if the patch wasn't enough I could do oral estradiol.

Thanks, Pam!

nonstickpam107 · 02-14-2008, 06:23 AM

Paula, I've PM'd you back with a list of patient recommended docs in the UK. Hope it helps you.

Pam

nonstickpam107 · 02-14-2008, 06:29 AM

HelenM,

Looks like 'just' menopause to me. I preferred the transdermal COMPOUNDED progesterone to oral prometrium (time and again). You might want to speak to the doc about that (usual dosing is 100mg/ML) if you would like to switch especially if the oral prom. is giving you weight problems, or water weight, etc. Anything you can do transdermal is a good thing. I had to take oral estradiol for the first year of BHRT...then switched to transdermal (all compounded especially for ME by a compounding pharmacist).

The reason your FT3 is a 'little' low is cuz the incoming BHRT is binding it in the bloodstream (especially with ORAL progesterone), not because you are hypothyroid. 30mg. of Armour would do, um...not much...and you need to see your FT's AGAIN as soon as you've taken it for over six to eight weeks, than go from there. So far, so good though. May I ask where you live (state/area)? (You can PM me info...would like to recommend an 'Armour giving' doc anytime).

Pam

HelenM · 02-14-2008, 08:20 AM

Hi Pam,

Thanks for the reply. I always appreciate reading your comments here.

If you check out this message I posted on this thread last year -->Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure? you can see that my T3 was low before I ever started HRT. It was 2.7, and the HRT lowered it to 2.57.

(BTW- Also, last year my total cholesterol was 254, since Atkins and HRT, it is now 164!!

)

I don't like using the Prometrium, in fact, I only used it for a 2 weeks last month, and felt water weight and breast tenderness from it. I think I will go back to my cream this month.

What is the equivalent amount of cream to 100 mg of prometrium? My doctor has it compounded to 1 gram progesterone to 60 grams cream. I guess I can call the pharmicist for the dosage.

I would be happy to send you my doctor's name and location. Do I have enough comments to use the PM system?

Thanks, Pam!

MountainGirl · 02-14-2008, 07:59 PM

Hey Pam,

I understand you are the "Go-To" person concerning thyroid questions.

My question is in relation to a supplement called Acetyl-L Carnitine.

In our family, we have a genetic carnitine deficiency and one of my 5 children died from it. Our geneticist had us on prescription carnitine for years, but now she has changed us to Acetyl-L Carnitine for the symptoms as this type is better assimilated.

All that's fine for my family, but I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism and was put on Synthroid 100. (My dr is NOT open to Armour, I asked).

My question is, I need to take BOTH these medications (Carnitine and thyroid), how can IO do that and not have the carnitine lower the thyroid function (which is a side effect)? Do you know about the ALCAR and thyroid?

Also, I don't want to give the ALCAR to my 19 y/o whom I suspect as being sub-clinical hypothyroid. But she needs the ALCAR!

Can you help? Thank you!!!

nonstickpam107 · 02-15-2008, 06:46 AM

L carnitine does have a lowering of T3 effect. Have you checked the ArmourThyroid docfinder? Joined YOUR State group? Looked a list of patient recommended doctors? I'm thinking you can find one.

The deal with carnitine and other 'binders' of incoming thyroid hormone is that you need a doctor to replace your T4 AND T3 as it is 'bound'. I take several meds to sustain my breathing and my autoimmune conditions and my thyroid doctor tests my FT's and then adjusts accordingly.

Have you asked the doc that's giving you the $inthroid (most expensive, made from CORN) if he will add Cytomel to it? That's synthetic T3 and some do quite well on a 'combo'. The doctor is working for YOU. Or supposed to anyway. I think if you bring him/her a print out from the ArmourThyroid website or more info on Cytomel added to T4 that might help. And ANY health practitioner who gets angry or uneasy when a patient brings literature or wants to try a new way with meds doesn't need to work for you.

Pam

MountainGirl · 02-15-2008, 07:44 AM

Hey Pam,

Thanks for the info. I'm really looking for help with the Acetyl-L Carnitine and thyroid issue.

Would you suggest I take the ALCAR 5 hours after taking the Synthroid, or more time than that? I really need both meds and don't know how to reconcile them both if the ALCAR affects the thyroid.

02-10-2008, 06:11 AM	#1684
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,645 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Andrea, your post made me cry (good tears), thank you so very much for your kind words. That baby is precious! Let's go back in your timeline though: 1. Your progesterone is highest when you are pregnant. That's when you felt close to 'normal' (well at least for a few weeks). 2. I think the aches/pains are from unbalanced progesterone/estradiol to the thyroid...one gets high (like your FT3...and is that a Free...or a Total as first quoted?) and one will be 'overpowered' (usually our progesterone, sigh). The other thing I wanted to add is this: (I'm a Grandmother, eight times over, so you young women will have to answer this) WHY have so MANY reproductive endocrinologists 'sprung up' in recent years and WHY do they NOT know how to do thyroid...when thyroid disease is one of the top reasons why a women can't conceive OR can't hold a pregnancy to term? I know seven women now (..um, I'm not a 'miracle worker' who can help you get pregnant, but I can 'spot' the symptoms of thyroid disease pretty well) who have conceived and carried to term after obtaining thyroid hormone. Yet they were paying a huge sum of money to a repro endo. Pam __________________ So many fireworks. So little time. "The thyroid is nothing to mess with" ... Sunset

02-13-2008, 01:24 PM	#1694
PrettyPaula Senior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 743 Blog Entries: 2 Gallery: PrettyPaula Stats: 5ft 11, looking for inch loss! WOE: Intuitive eating/Callanetics Start Date: 4th jan 08 - changed 29th feb	Hey Pam i went to the doctors monday with the following symptoms... Hair loss and thinning teenage skin (acne and dryness) weight gain and unable to lose poor sleep patterns fatigue depression poor concentration and lack of motivation headaches and migraines low sex drive these symptoms seem to come and go in waves, which is why i am now considering hashimotos as a maybe too? when i get my results on monday i will get a copy and post here, i dont think they have done a freeT3, or freeT4...?? its very hard here as we dont pay our docs, we dont get to see a specialist unless referred. i know she has requested a blood count, iron level, vit b12 level (family genetic dificiency just found), tsh, t3, t4 (assume uptake?) and progesterone, oestrogen? I was a tall slim and athletic child, up until around the age of 10-11 when i caught whooping cough whilst in Florida and then developed asthma, i was put on steroids for a year or so when i was off them i had lost my mega quick metabolism and skinny body, to be replaced by a fat one i cannot shift 70% of the time, then all of a sudden i feel great and lose weight, but it always piles back on. i am not a binge eater or over eater, i am active even when not doing extra exercise which i am right now! i was diagnosed with depression 2 years ago and began citalopram then, i also had some therapy only to find no possible mental cause, must be physical and dr left it at that. never questioned it really until now. im petrified that everything will come back normal (as it did 2 yrs ago) and i will be stuck! this time i intend to go armed with as much info on new "normal" ranges and freeT3 and freeT4 numbers as i can find and to hopefully fully understand what they all mean. Also if i can find out if you know of any links between steroids and hypothyroid or genetic autoimmune traits being linked? __________________ Paula Smoke-Free for 1 MONTH(!) 3 weeks 195 Exercise mins in March! 3 hours of callanetics completed

02-13-2008, 05:51 PM	#1695
HelenM Junior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34 Gallery: HelenM Stats: 198/185/135 WOE: DANDR/Low Carb Start Date: Nov 2005	New Test Results Hi Pam, I'm 53 and been menopausal for 5 yrs with lots of symptoms I kept hoping would end, but never did. The hot flashes, brain fog and night sweats were unbearable. I tried over the counter stuff, but it didn't work. My new GYN recently put me on Vivelle Dot (started at .025 in Nov 07, and since Feb 08 I'm on .1 daily) as well as Prometrium 100mg. 1x a day for 14 days a month. I love the patch, and had been using a compounded RX Progesterone cream 1g/60g from my family doctor, but the GYN said that the pill was more predictable as to dosage and switched me. The hot flashes/night sweats are now much less frequent, and the brain fog feels a little better. Some history: I have had problems with my thyroid in the past and even had radioactive iodine swallow (1985) since I had an infection in the gland (or they thought it may have been cancer - but it was just swollen). I regularly got checkups, thinking that my metabolism was off, but the only tests they ever ran was the TSH - which they said was fine. I had an extensive thyroid panel run about a year ago by a different doctor. He would not agree to the Armour trial, but instead put me on Cytomel since he said the T3 was low. Cytomel made me nervous and jumpy, with heart palps, and I didn't stay on it long, maybe a few weeks. Anyway, my new family doctor wanted to run tests again this month since I was now using HRT, and here's the results (I was using the .1 Vivelle Dot at the time of the tests with the Prometrium.): FSH.... 59.80 mIU.ml LH..... 39.30 mIU/ml Estradiol... 73.10 pg/ml TSH.... 1.34 uIU/ML (.4-4.0) T4 Free Direct..... 1.48 ng/dL (.80-1.90) Triiodothyronine (T3), Free, Serum...... 2.57 pg/mL (1.80-4.2) I had these tests done in 2007, and didn't rerun them: Thyroid Antibodies: Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab... <10 IU/mL (0-34) Antithyroglobulin Ab... <20 IU/mL (0-40) Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglob...112% (<130) All my other 2008 blood work was fine (CBC w/ Diff & platelets and Comp. Metabolic Panel) The only exception was my Calcium was too low, which he attributed to me not taking enough calcium supplements. Calcium 8.3 mg/dl (8.5-10.1) My family doctor looked over the test results, and said the thyroid looked ok. I pointed out the T3, and also told him that I had a lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism, and asked since my T3 was on the low side whether I could do a trial of Armour Thyroid to see if my symptoms improve. To my shock, he agreed! I am now taking 30 mg of Armour once a day. It seems to be going ok after only a few days. When should I get my thyroid retested, and should I try to get a stronger prescription in time? He said to contact his office anytime. He is really a wonderful doctor! He said he wants to run the iron, ferritin and some other tests, too. He is very easy to work with. I am so thankful to have found him. My question is, where do I go from here? I have an appointment in March with my GYN to see about the estrogen patch. She said if the patch wasn't enough I could do oral estradiol. Thanks, Pam! __________________ 198 197 196 195 194 193 192 191 190 189 188 187 186 185 184 183 182 181 180179 178 177 176 175 174 173 172 171 170 169 168 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 154 153 152 151 150 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 135

02-14-2008, 07:59 PM	#1699
MountainGirl MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,305 Gallery: MountainGirl Stats: 218.2/in-between/125 WOE: LC / Working towards renewed health Start Date: July 11 2007	Hey Pam, I understand you are the "Go-To" person concerning thyroid questions. My question is in relation to a supplement called Acetyl-L Carnitine. In our family, we have a genetic carnitine deficiency and one of my 5 children died from it. Our geneticist had us on prescription carnitine for years, but now she has changed us to Acetyl-L Carnitine for the symptoms as this type is better assimilated. All that's fine for my family, but I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism and was put on Synthroid 100. (My dr is NOT open to Armour, I asked). My question is, I need to take BOTH these medications (Carnitine and thyroid), how can IO do that and not have the carnitine lower the thyroid function (which is a side effect)? Do you know about the ALCAR and thyroid? Also, I don't want to give the ALCAR to my 19 y/o whom I suspect as being sub-clinical hypothyroid. But she needs the ALCAR! Can you help? Thank you!!! __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~ 51 years young! Finished chemotherapy for Acute Promyelocytic Leukemia! Now in REMISSION!! Praise G-d! Diabetic, hypothyroid and fully in chemo-induced menopause - working on losing weight and keeping blood sugars stable using LC whole foods NO FRANKENFOODS!

02-09-2008, 01:40 PM	#1681
n.texasgirl Junior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: north, Texas Posts: 5 Gallery: n.texasgirl Stats: 204/172/145 WOE: bffm Start Date: February 2008	Pam, Thanks for the advice. I will cut down what I am taking and see if that helps. I swing back and forth from high to low all the time. Last year at this time I was really low which is how I ended up taking 180mg. I've asked to have my thyroid out several times just because I hate going back and forth. I asked the dr about the high T3/T4 , and she said yes they were, for this week but that they would be down shortly. I have never checked on my progesterone levels. I will see about getting that checked at HealthCheckUSA. My thyroid dr is several hours from me and my local town doctors are awful. I want to tell you my story because that little baby on my avatar would not be here if it weren't for you. I have always been in pain. Since as far back as I can remember, I have never slept well, always had migraines, back pain, leg pain, hand pain ect. By the time I was 8, I was diagnosed with scoliosis, migrains, tmj, hip problems, flat feet. The trips to specialists just kept mounting as the years went by. At 18, the doctor found a lump in my throat, did a thyroid scan and was told I had a nodule. It was biopsied, found to be benign. I was sent for repeated tests but never tested for Hashi's. I also started having terrible pain and muscle cramping all over when I was pregnant. As soon as I gave birth it went away. I never got a good diagnosis despite my repeated attempts at multiple doctors. Fast forward 7 years, and I moved to Texas with my dh and 4 children. After we had been here a year I started having terrible pain all over. I barely walked. I would crawl, dragging my body by my arms on the floor to the bathroom then be unable to get back up again. Normally, I only had this kind of pain when I was pregnant. But I wasn't pregnant. In fact, I was unable to maintain a pregnancy past 8 weeks. I could get pregnant easily enough. I did several times and always 3-4 weeks later I would miscarry. November 2006, I went to the dr again asking for another set of thyroid tests. He rolled his eyes but ran them. My TSH was .03 and he told me I was hyper. I weighed 203 lbs. I had always been thin, never overweight unless pg then lost it all quickly afterward. Now he was telling me that gaining 60lbs in one year was all my fault because I was eating too much. He discounted everything I said even the multpiple miscarriages. December 2006- a lady from a homeschool blog pasted a link to this exact thread. I read every word several times. I was amazed how similar so many stories were to my own. I started working my way down the list of thyroid drs that were located within 4 hours of me. At this point, I was unable to walk without assistance and had just found out I was pregnant yet again. I had even gone wheelchair shopping. I spent hours on the phone begging for any doctor to take me. No one could see me without a referral. After two days of searching, I did find a cash-only doctor who could see me the very next day. I started on Armour that evening. After 2 months, my dosage was doubled because my T3 was going down, my TSH was going up while on 90mg. After it was doubled, my pain disappeared almost entirely. After 8 months of being on Armour and years of being unable to maintain a pregnancy, I gave birth to a beautiful little girl. Thank you. -Andrea

02-09-2008, 05:11 PM	#1682
dooy Yankee Tawkin' & Workin' WIT Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,505 Gallery: dooy Stats: 2003:162/126 2008: 153/ /120 WOE: Who would know?	This brought tears of gratitude! I'm so happy for you!!! Pam, we love you soooo much around here!!!

02-11-2008, 05:58 AM	#1688
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,645 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	[quote=n.texasgirl;9924569]My sister has been unable to have any children for 6 1/2 years. No one, aside from me, has once mentioned for her to have her hormone levels checked. She, like me, can get pregnant but can't carry to term. She will be having them checked through healthcheck next month. I will be going as well to check on my prog/estra. BTW- I took your advice and cut my dose in half yesterday and today. I feel so much better. Should it work that quickly? I woke up this morning and all my pain was gone. My jaw is still pretty bad, but it always is. My husband thinks I am crazy. I have been running around the house cleaning, baking and chasing my kids around the yard. Yesterday I was laid out on the couch and had been for days. Yes, it works 'that fast', but the other way around...T4 has a half life of about two weeks, and lab tests don't show up till 6 weeks, so if you 'amp up' dosage, it lags, then hits all at once (a good reason to never self medicate!). Hmm, you went down by half...you could probably try 2 grains, one in am, one about midway through day and see how ya feel...you'll need a pill splitter (we do creative pill cutting 101 here, heh heh). Pam

02-11-2008, 12:54 PM	#1690
PrettyPaula Senior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 743 Blog Entries: 2 Gallery: PrettyPaula Stats: 5ft 11, looking for inch loss! WOE: Intuitive eating/Callanetics Start Date: 4th jan 08 - changed 29th feb	Hey ladies, been reading some of this thread i went to the doctors today with the following symptoms... Hair loss and thinning teenage skin (acne and dryness) weight gain and unable to lose poor sleep patterns fatigue depression poor concentration headaches and migraines ive been eating right, and exercising, ive also quit smoking and i feel worse! so i am there tomorrow morning for blood tests. hoping something gets found! i feel like im going insane.

02-12-2008, 07:47 AM	#1692
Zer Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SoCal (Orange County) Posts: 5,529 Blog Entries: 41 Gallery: Zer Stats: 5'10"; 64; 508.7/397.0/199 WOE: Atkins: <5%Carb; BMR:2423cals; 182gProt; 128ozH2O Start Date: 432.4(2/8) 413.2(4/8) 402.2(6/8) 8/8/08:388.8+5.6	I am definitely open to trying Armour. Just chicken to do it without an MD, as I read on some lists people are buying and trying out various dosages. Scary. It is somehow not so scary for me to stop drugs like levothroid and cytomel for a period, since I do not feel better or worse - with or without the drugs. What I ~DO~ notice is that trusting my body to function is easier for me than taking a pill that I seriously doubt will help. I've been handed pills of all sorts for years. Most of them I've declined to take, saying the listed side effects were a LOT worse than the discomfort of getting along without the drugs. I've got hip pain now, but none of the side effects that so-called pain relievers gave me while not quite touching the pain itself. So I am hoping my thyroid and adrenals are working to meet my body's needs. If Armour can help, I'll be grateful. So very grateful. I'm hopeful that I shall feel better. Not overnight. I understand that. Thanks for all the info and insights, as we all ask questions and report how we feel!

02-14-2008, 06:23 AM	#1696
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,645 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Paula, I've PM'd you back with a list of patient recommended docs in the UK. Hope it helps you. Pam

02-14-2008, 06:29 AM	#1697
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,645 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	HelenM, Looks like 'just' menopause to me. I preferred the transdermal COMPOUNDED progesterone to oral prometrium (time and again). You might want to speak to the doc about that (usual dosing is 100mg/ML) if you would like to switch especially if the oral prom. is giving you weight problems, or water weight, etc. Anything you can do transdermal is a good thing. I had to take oral estradiol for the first year of BHRT...then switched to transdermal (all compounded especially for ME by a compounding pharmacist). The reason your FT3 is a 'little' low is cuz the incoming BHRT is binding it in the bloodstream (especially with ORAL progesterone), not because you are hypothyroid. 30mg. of Armour would do, um...not much...and you need to see your FT's AGAIN as soon as you've taken it for over six to eight weeks, than go from there. So far, so good though. May I ask where you live (state/area)? (You can PM me info...would like to recommend an 'Armour giving' doc anytime). Pam

02-14-2008, 08:20 AM	#1698
HelenM Junior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 34 Gallery: HelenM Stats: 198/185/135 WOE: DANDR/Low Carb Start Date: Nov 2005	Hi Pam, Thanks for the reply. I always appreciate reading your comments here. If you check out this message I posted on this thread last year -->Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure? you can see that my T3 was low before I ever started HRT. It was 2.7, and the HRT lowered it to 2.57. (BTW- Also, last year my total cholesterol was 254, since Atkins and HRT, it is now 164!! ) I don't like using the Prometrium, in fact, I only used it for a 2 weeks last month, and felt water weight and breast tenderness from it. I think I will go back to my cream this month. What is the equivalent amount of cream to 100 mg of prometrium? My doctor has it compounded to 1 gram progesterone to 60 grams cream. I guess I can call the pharmicist for the dosage. I would be happy to send you my doctor's name and location. Do I have enough comments to use the PM system? Thanks, Pam!

02-15-2008, 06:46 AM	#1700
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,645 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	L carnitine does have a lowering of T3 effect. Have you checked the ArmourThyroid docfinder? Joined YOUR State group? Looked a list of patient recommended doctors? I'm thinking you can find one. The deal with carnitine and other 'binders' of incoming thyroid hormone is that you need a doctor to replace your T4 AND T3 as it is 'bound'. I take several meds to sustain my breathing and my autoimmune conditions and my thyroid doctor tests my FT's and then adjusts accordingly. Have you asked the doc that's giving you the $inthroid (most expensive, made from CORN) if he will add Cytomel to it? That's synthetic T3 and some do quite well on a 'combo'. The doctor is working for YOU. Or supposed to anyway. I think if you bring him/her a print out from the ArmourThyroid website or more info on Cytomel added to T4 that might help. And ANY health practitioner who gets angry or uneasy when a patient brings literature or wants to try a new way with meds doesn't need to work for you. Pam

02-15-2008, 07:44 AM	#1701
MountainGirl MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,305 Gallery: MountainGirl Stats: 218.2/in-between/125 WOE: LC / Working towards renewed health Start Date: July 11 2007	Hey Pam, Thanks for the info. I'm really looking for help with the Acetyl-L Carnitine and thyroid issue. Would you suggest I take the ALCAR 5 hours after taking the Synthroid, or more time than that? I really need both meds and don't know how to reconcile them both if the ALCAR affects the thyroid.