Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure? - Page 56

nonstickpam107 · 01-14-2008, 10:06 AM

Two out of every ten women have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroidism. One out of every 150 doctors know how to treat it optimally.

Out of all the women who HAVE Hashimoto's...almost all 'trigger' it after having a baby, or peri meno or menopause. I think it would be 'cheaper' for you to have the iron and ferritin test done by the doc (ask how much) and I think it would cost 100's less for you to have the tests for thyroid done through that website.

Hashimoto's is nothing to 'fool' with...and I JUST had email from a women who'd been seeing a 'TOP repro/endo' for five YEARS (costing THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS) thanking me...why?? Because I mentioned I thought that doc was not doing all the proper tests and that it might very well be her thyroid keeping her from conception. That was, indeed, the case. Her TSH was lower than yours, yet when she did the panel, her FT's were at the bottom of the range, and she does have Hashimoto's (the repro endo said she did NOT, yet did NO TPO antibody tests to rule it out).

I have two children. I had FOUR miscarriages and two stillborn infants, all the time seeing several doctors and being told my 'TSH WAS NORMAL'. It's up to you. If I had the symptoms you are having I would want to know if I had an autoimmune disease.

My 'story' is getting quite well known. I had Hashimoto's...no doc would dx or treat me for years, and by the time I got help (in my 40's), I had been infertile since I was 22 yrs. old and also acquired three MORE autoimmune diseases. My Mother died...was in and out of mental facilities, dx'd with 'schizoid'..but would have been 'tagged' bi polar had it been nowadays...the autopsy (she was 49) showed Hashimoto's Encephalopathy....a little thyroid hormone would have set her straight. Granted, that was years ago (1975) but the archaic treatment women are still getting is what has allowed the statistics to climb to 'two out of every ten women have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroidism'.

Pam

sissypoo · 01-16-2008, 04:21 PM

Hi Pam,

I just wanted to tell you that I spoke with my dr the other day about my thyroid tests. I told him I wanted to have an antibodies test for Hashimoto's. He said there was no reason to do that because my tests were within the normal range and he wouldn't treat me differently even if the antibody test came back positive. He also said that treating with thyroid hormone when test results were within normal range was too risky. He mentioned osteoporosis. So, even though I've been on Armor in the past and felt much better, he refuses to even have me try it again.

Of course, this is the dr that told me I didn't need to have my hormones checked since I was menopausal. I asked him about progesterone cream and he chuckled and said I didn't need it. This guy stresses me out!

tinatina · 01-16-2008, 05:05 PM

Ok, my computer won't let me get onto the website listed on the first page, I'll try that tomorrow at work.

I'm currently taking 100 mcg of synthroid a day. I was re-tested on 12/31/07. I think only the TSH was tested and came back 32.29. Had an appointment with my dr today and she is sending me for the following tests:
antithyroid antibodies
free T3
free T4
TSH

Any thoughts, guidance, comments? I'm trying to educate myself more and I know that 03 - 3 is supposed to be normal, but how ABnormal is 32.29? or does it depend on the results of the other tests?

I know this is probably covered in the other 58 pages of this thread, but I dont have that much time!

nonstickpam107 · 01-17-2008, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sissypoo

Hi Pam,

I just wanted to tell you that I spoke with my dr the other day about my thyroid tests. I told him I wanted to have an antibodies test for Hashimoto's. He said there was no reason to do that because my tests were within the normal range and he wouldn't treat me differently even if the antibody test came back positive. He also said that treating with thyroid hormone when test results were within normal range was too risky. He mentioned osteoporosis. So, even though I've been on Armor in the past and felt much better, he refuses to even have me try it again.

Of course, this is the dr that told me I didn't need to have my hormones checked since I was menopausal. I asked him about progesterone cream and he chuckled and said I didn't need it. This guy stresses me out!

You're in Indiana. Best doc within three, four states for all of this is in Ft. Wayne. If you want info, PM me.

Pam

nonstickpam107 · 01-17-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinatina

Ok, my computer won't let me get onto the website listed on the first page, I'll try that tomorrow at work.

I'm currently taking 100 mcg of synthroid a day. I was re-tested on 12/31/07. I think only the TSH was tested and came back 32.29. Had an appointment with my dr today and she is sending me for the following tests:
antithyroid antibodies
free T3
free T4
TSH

Any thoughts, guidance, comments? I'm trying to educate myself more and I know that 03 - 3 is supposed to be normal, but how ABnormal is 32.29? or does it depend on the results of the other tests?

I know this is probably covered in the other 58 pages of this thread, but I dont have that much time!

That's funny, I have all the time in the world (just kidding...I don't!!!). TSH means that the pituitary is sending wrong signals to the thyroid. I've seen higher than 150...but the bottom line is that TSH means..um...nuttin'...it's the test the doc is sending you for that will tell what's up.

Go to this site and read (to find out WHY just giving a patient T4 ONLY usually doesn't work too well..our own thyroids make four thyroid hormones, T1, T2, T3 and T4. Part of the T4 must convert to T3...and most of us do NOT convert it...so we never actually feel like 'us' or 'normal' on just T4) Read here...:

Stop The Thyroid Madness Index Page

Also, it takes MONTHS to adjust and fine tune thyroid dosage and you really need to be patient (although if the doc is 'stuck' on giving ONLY synthetics or ONLY T4..don't be so 'stuck' that once you feel better you don't go in search of a doctor who does natural thyroid or adds synthetic T3). Good luck

Pam

tinatina · 01-17-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

That's funny, I have all the time in the world (just kidding...I don't!!!). TSH means that the pituitary is sending wrong signals to the thyroid. I've seen higher than 150...but the bottom line is that TSH means..um...nuttin'...it's the test the doc is sending you for that will tell what's up.
Go to this site and read (to find out WHY just giving a patient T4 ONLY usually doesn't work too well..our own thyroids make four thyroid hormones, T1, T2, T3 and T4. Part of the T4 must convert to T3...and most of us do NOT convert it...so we never actually feel like 'us' or 'normal' on just T4) Read here...:
Stop The Thyroid Madness Index Page
Also, it takes MONTHS to adjust and fine tune thyroid dosage and you really need to be patient (although if the doc is 'stuck' on giving ONLY synthetics or ONLY T4..don't be so 'stuck' that once you feel better you don't go in search of a doctor who does natural thyroid or adds synthetic T3). Good luck
Pam

Pam - Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I will mention the Armour to my doc when I get my results, see what kind of response I get. I am going to get the above blookwork today.

I did go to the website you listed above, lots of good info.

Again, thank you. I'll probably be back when I get my results

DebM · 01-17-2008, 09:00 AM

Sissypoo and Pam,

Your doctor sounds exactly like mine....do you live in Ohio???

I went last Tuesday and he told me basically the same thing....that my bloodwork was "perfect" - tsh perfect. I used all the info that Pam gave me and he tried to tell me if I wasn't feeling good then it must be something else, anemia, cancer, blah, blah, blah. He did say "o yeah I think you probably do have hashi but same thing, you don't treat that". I tried to tell him that that's why you run a free T3 and T4 ..... I could tell he didn't like me telling him what he wasn't doing..... I left there very ticked off but did schedule a thyroid ultrasound to check for nodules, etc. for next week. Will be interesting to see what it might or might not show but I figured I'd proceed with it because when I switch doctors, I'll have already taken care of that. I've checked with 2 other endocronologists in my medical plan and they do treat for hashis - surprisingly enough, they are both women doctors!!! Now do they treat with armour or the other drugs not sure but I'll deal with that

I kept basically saying, let's rule out the hashis and run the antiobodies tests and the free 3 and 4 and it was tsh -- blah, blah, blah. I wasn't brave enough to say he was just stupid that that didn't tell the picture for the thyroid....and he needed to reeducate himself.....

But, Pam you sure are correct in how they react when you don't just take their word for everything and question them.....

nonstickpam107 · 01-18-2008, 06:11 AM

I'll be more than happy to see your results Tina (with the lab ranges used by that particular lab please...always ask for the lab COPY, not over the phone).

DEBM....there is a new practice opening in OH...who does Armour and BHRT...give me a couple of days to get the info please....but my good friend in OH just let me know!!! (See?? I'm excited!!).

Pam

tinatina · 01-18-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

I'll be more than happy to see your results Tina (with the lab ranges used by that particular lab please...always ask for the lab COPY, not over the phone).
DEBM....there is a new practice opening in OH...who does Armour and BHRT...give me a couple of days to get the info please....but my good friend in OH just let me know!!! (See?? I'm excited!!).
Pam

Pam - Thanks for the advice. I did fill out some paperwork so they will send me a copy of the labwork. I didn't know about the ranges so that is something I will look into. I truly appreciate your help and advice.

watcher513 · 01-21-2008, 05:16 PM

Thought I'd throw some numbers out there since I've been reading this board for a year or so. A little background: 58 y.o., another bday coming in May, post-meno (at 41 y.o. and it took me 5 yrs. to find out what was going on w/that! Mom was 36 when she went through it.) Known about hypo for the last 5 yrs. or so. More under control in the last 3 but trying to get it better. Dad's hypo also and he'll be 88 in June.

Had extensive bloodwork done in 2006 (thought I was a pin cushion for a few months, May-July). Not only hypo that I knew about but also hemolytic anemia w/spherocytosis thrown in. I'm behind a month or so for bloodwork and will be going in in the next week or so.

2005 was on 25 mcg. levothroid, 2006 switched to 50 mcg., 5/07 switched to 100 mcg.
So, here goes: I know there's one missing between 6/06 and 5/07 but don't have it front of me for some reason.

.....12/9/05..1/23/06..2/13/06..6/1/06..5/7/07..6/14/07...Range

TSH...6.2.........4.5.......3.5.......4.3......6.3 .....0.3..<0.2-5.5>
FT4...........................1.1................. ..........1.7...<0.8-1.7>
FT3............................................... ...........285....<230-420>

Finally got both FT4 and FT3 done together but it took some doing.

"Discussing" (note sarcasm) with doc about continuing w/FT4 and FT3 tests. Evidently the Endo says they're not necessary *sigh*. I'm still pushing that and also trying to get Anti TPO done because of Hashi's. I think it's my right to know what's going on. He's the one that said "don't stop reading", when I told him I've been researching on the net. So I'm going to remind him about that and the fact that he was really happy I was being proactive about my health.

Thoughts on the FT4 and FT3 numbers? There are still days I fall asleep on the couch anywhere from 5-5:30 pm. Between the hypo and anemia it's been interesting to say the least.

Forgot to add: Quit smoking 5/1/03, Yeah! Was really good with walking for the last year until around November because my foot hurt for some reason then crummy weather (weird). So have gained some weight back that I'd lost in the year before (lost 20 lbs. or so, since the holidays about 10 back, ugh). I've been bad. Gotta get back to it.

Terry

watcher513 · 01-21-2008, 05:44 PM

One/two more "forgots" to add in:

Included in the extensive bloodwork was Iron and Ferritin and all related. Was referred to a hemotologist in May 06 for the many tests for the anemia. Iron's fine. I'm in every 4 weeks for a B12 shot.

I think my biggest complaints are always being cold (forever), especially in the wintertime (dress in layers) and dry skin.

nonstickpam107 · 01-22-2008, 06:54 AM

Well of COURSE you don't feel well. Looks like you have pernicious anemia (hence the B12 shots...and why NOT look at the iron??? "normal' is isn't 'anywhere in it's range' normal for iron is around 75 or HIGHER in a female.

You are ONLY taking T4. You are not converting any of it to T3 (see your FT3??? should be middle of that range or higher). Are you taking BHRT?? Any progesterone, estradiol?? You really need T3 added to that T4 (ask the doc for Cytomel...maybe 10mg...taken half in am, half in pm??? Jeez...). Yeah, you 'don't need' FT's as long as you stay with that doc...cuz he's never gonna look at them and determine how low your FT3 really is. I'd be 'halfway' treated with that dose too.

Of course you ARE in CA...where it's excessively difficult to get any T3, sigh and most the docs worship at the altar of TSH only. It's disgusting. I'd try and get T3 (synthetic is called Cytomel) It would mean all the difference in the world. If you get the T3, you will have to lower your T4 synthetic (Your FT4 is as high as what a man usually likes, women generally like to be about midway of range with FT4 and over midway with FT3). IMHO, I'd want to go down to 75mcg. T4 and add 10mg. Cytomel split.

Pam

Pam

watcher513 · 01-22-2008, 03:08 PM

I know the T4 is at the top of the range, or was last year. Definitely going to bug him about the T3 med being added. I'm on the same dosage as my dad re your comment about men's level. Forgot to add that the hematologist has me on 1000 mcg. folic acid (because hemolytic anemia and spherocytosis). No one's said anything about pernicious anemia.

Found some more test results for iron and ferritin from 2/06 (old, I know) that was part of the process of trying to figure out things. At that time we were experimenting different things (that's why they call it a Practice I'm sure). I was on iron pills for 2 months, then B12 pills for a different 2 months. Then the B12 shots started in 5/06.

Total Iron binding capacity...........323...<228-428 ug/dL>
Iron...........................................92. ..<35-160 ug/dL>
Total Iron binding capacity,unsat...231...<92-365 ug/dL>
Transferrin..................................28... <15-55%>
Ferretin....................................165... .<22-291 ng/mL>

As I recall these results were after being on the iron pills for about 2 months.

Not on anything else except hydrochlorothiazide.

nonstickpam107 · 01-23-2008, 06:32 AM

Your iron is great in that test and your ferritin is a bit too high...indicating pernicious anemia. This type of anemia is very suspect in someone with hypothyroidism (particularly those with Hashimoto's). Yep, the ol' cookie cutter thyroid treatment. Just give ONLY T4 and about the same dose to everyone. We're just all alike to some physicians.

Try the docfinder at Armour Thyroid Official Site but I'm suspecting because of the area in which you live, it may be difficult to find an Armour doc (or costly...most go out of pocket not insurance).

Pam

tinatina · 01-23-2008, 11:04 AM

as promised I'm back with my results. I haven't heard from the drs office yet.

T3, free 2.6 [2.3-4.2] PG/ML
T4, free 1.37 NG/DL
. . . . .reference ranges
. . . . . . .hypothyroid <0.89
. . . . . . .euthyroid 0.89 - 1.80
. . . . . . .hyperthryroid >1.80
TSH, 3rd generation 2.950 [0.35-5.50] MIU/ML
Thyroid Auto AB
Thyroid Peroxidase AB 484.0 Normal: less than 35 Unit: IU/ML

Thyroglobulin AB >3000.0
Normal: <20.0 Unit: IU/ML

What do you think?

nonstickpam107 · 01-24-2008, 06:56 AM

Tina it looks like you have Hashimoto's. And the ranges given for the FT4 are 'amazing' (not correct in most cases, but 'amazing' that the lab tries to 'second guess' the test). You FT3 is so very low, just barely in the range...I like mine kept (with replacement T3) about midway or 3/4 of it's range to feel 'normal.

Also, the TSH 'range' is very outdated...it's usually nowadays given as: .30-3.0 with anything near the 3.0 considered subclinical hypothyroid...but a doc shouldn't go by the pituitary test (TSH) anyway, they should go by the FT's, and TPO.

Pam

sjl330 · 01-24-2008, 11:23 AM

Hi Pam,
I hope you remember me. You helped me a long time ago and here I am again to get your opinion. I so appreciate all your help to me and to everybody here. You're a real blessing.

My test results:
TSH <0.004 L ...............0.350-5.500
Thyroxine (T4) 6.9 ug/dL...............4.5-12
T3 Uptake 35 %.................24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.4..................1.2-4.9
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (Direct) 1.36 ng/dL.......0.61-1.76

How does everything look to you?

I hope I gave you the right numbers.

Thanks again,

nonstickpam107 · 01-25-2008, 07:26 AM

[quote=sjl330;9843570]Hi Pam,
I hope you remember me. You helped me a long time ago and here I am again to get your opinion. I so appreciate all your help to me and to everybody here. You're a real blessing.

My test results:
TSH <0.004 L ...............0.350-5.500
Thyroxine (T4) 6.9 ug/dL...............4.5-12
T3 Uptake 35 %.................24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 2.4..................1.2-4.9
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (Direct) 1.36 ng/dL.......0.61-1.76

How does everything look to you?

I hope I gave you the right numbers.

They didn't do a T3 OR Free T3. A T3 Uptake doesn't measure T3 hormone, it measues binding T4 (most docs don't 'know' this...and I wish they'd figure it out). So, we're going to have to go by how you feel. If you feel pretty good most the time, aren't having aches, pains, heart palpitations, or just plain fatigued, blah, down emotionally, etc. then your T3 may be decent.

I, on the other hand would HAVE to see my FT3...and go by my symptoms. I, myself, would be a little too 'high' in T4...so I'd want to see if perhaps I am just a little overmedicated..unless my T3 was balanced high to it (I just don't feel as well when my T4 is higher than my T3...I feel good if my TSH is pretty low, but not under .25, my FT4 is only about halfway of range, and my FT3 is 3/4's of the range

I wouldn't mess with what you are doing with/without thyroid if you feel great.

Pam

sjl330 · 01-25-2008, 09:32 AM

Thanks Pam,
I was so careful to be sure to ask for free T4 too! I thought that was the one they always left off. I should've done my homework better before I went and taken notes with me too.
I have been a little more tired than usual lately but I think it's b/c my testosterone is low. At least I found out that much, lol. I'm supposed to talk to the Dr. about that Tues. so we'll see what they'll do about that. Maybe up it in my bio cocktail I take every day. And hopefully I'll be back to normal after that. If not, I'll go back and be sure to ask for the "free T3" this time.

Why oh why do we have to be our own doctors!! Lol.

Thanks again,

nonstickpam107 · 01-26-2008, 05:07 AM

Well, if your T3 is low and your T4 too high, it 'races' the adrenals and brings the testosterone down (make sure they did a FREE testosterone TOO, cuz just total isn't helpful in assessing a female testosterone level).

Pam

sjl330 · 01-26-2008, 07:20 AM

Yes, they did. It's the free that's real low. So I don't know what they'll do but I'll see what they say.

nonstickpam107 · 01-27-2008, 05:43 AM

But free test. IS really low in females anyway, IF they used the 'standard, male' range. I've seen that done a lot, that's why I'm interested in the test result AND the range...my doc uses a 'specific, FEMALE ONLY range'...I'm really 'wondering' lately about all the testosterone being Rx'd for women...while the same docs rx'ing aren't testing well and treating for adrenals/thyroid. The only thing having testosterone added to my progesterone and estradiol/estriol mix did for me was make me: kind of 'angry' at times, grow chin hair, and at first I think muscle added a bit easier while lifting weights, etc., but as a whole, it didn't do a whole lot for me.

It's all so individual, but you look 'overreplaced' for T4, and you really need that FT3...so, wait till ya get that and go from there (cuz if the FT3 is excessively low in light of your very high FT4 and very low TSH, I'd want to lower the T4 incoming and add T3 in small increments until it was 'balanced'...the imbalance can really throw your other hormone testing off.

Pam

n.texasgirl · 02-08-2008, 08:17 AM

Pam, can you look at my labs and tell me what you think? I take 180mg of Armour. I am negative for anti's. I have been on Armour for since Jan 2007.

FT4- 1.5 (0.8-1.8)
FT3 5.13 (2.3-4.2)

They didn't bother with the TSH. My ferritin accidently got left off. I should have those results later today. My fibro is raging out of control and I can barely function at this point. I am taking HUGE amounts of ibuprofen just to walk and talk (my muscles cramp badly, to the point I cannot move my jaw). My dr is calling me in an rx for Lyrica. I don't want to take it, I just had a baby and am breastfeeding. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Andrea

laurawd · 02-08-2008, 05:49 PM

I've had my thyroid tested several times in the past 1.5 yrs, both on and off meds, and need some advice.

In May 06, not on meds, the readings were

TSH 1.06
FT4 .78 (.71-1.41)
FT3 2.47 (1.71-3.71)

In August 06, no on meds, the readings were

TSH 2.2 (.35-2.3)
FT4 .76 (.71-1.41)
FT3 2.2 (1.71-3.71)

I started taking thyroxine in September because of low FT4, and after 6-7 weeks on 50 mcg thyroxine, the labs read

TSH 1.27
FT4 .92 (.71-1.41)
FT3 2.66 (1.71-3.71)

The doc asked me to increase thyroxine dose to get the FT4 up, so I went to 100 mcg thyroxine and added 50 mcg Cytomel. After 7 weeks on that dose, my labs read:

TSH .07 (.35-2.23)
FT4 .76 (new range: .83-1.38)
FT3 1.98 (new range: 2.23-3.83)

Note, the Hong Kong lab (I live in Hong Kong) changed the ranges after re-testing the population in HKG. The new lab ranges reflect thyroid levels for people without antibodies.

I do not have antibodies and hypopituitary issues do not seem present. (other hormone levels, such as Prolactin and sex hormones are OK, although testosterone is kind of low.)

I think it strange that my Ft4 is sooo low pretty much all the time. I am not sure whether I should even be on thyroid meds. I do not feel much different on them, although I was not quite as irritable on 50 mcg thyroxine.

If anyone has advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.

By the way, my ferritin is 36 . I'm working on raising it.

01-14-2008, 10:06 AM	#1651
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Two out of every ten women have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroidism. One out of every 150 doctors know how to treat it optimally. Out of all the women who HAVE Hashimoto's...almost all 'trigger' it after having a baby, or peri meno or menopause. I think it would be 'cheaper' for you to have the iron and ferritin test done by the doc (ask how much) and I think it would cost 100's less for you to have the tests for thyroid done through that website. Hashimoto's is nothing to 'fool' with...and I JUST had email from a women who'd been seeing a 'TOP repro/endo' for five YEARS (costing THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS) thanking me...why?? Because I mentioned I thought that doc was not doing all the proper tests and that it might very well be her thyroid keeping her from conception. That was, indeed, the case. Her TSH was lower than yours, yet when she did the panel, her FT's were at the bottom of the range, and she does have Hashimoto's (the repro endo said she did NOT, yet did NO TPO antibody tests to rule it out). I have two children. I had FOUR miscarriages and two stillborn infants, all the time seeing several doctors and being told my 'TSH WAS NORMAL'. It's up to you. If I had the symptoms you are having I would want to know if I had an autoimmune disease. My 'story' is getting quite well known. I had Hashimoto's...no doc would dx or treat me for years, and by the time I got help (in my 40's), I had been infertile since I was 22 yrs. old and also acquired three MORE autoimmune diseases. My Mother died...was in and out of mental facilities, dx'd with 'schizoid'..but would have been 'tagged' bi polar had it been nowadays...the autopsy (she was 49) showed Hashimoto's Encephalopathy....a little thyroid hormone would have set her straight. Granted, that was years ago (1975) but the archaic treatment women are still getting is what has allowed the statistics to climb to 'two out of every ten women have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroidism'. Pam __________________ So many fireworks. So little time. "The thyroid is nothing to mess with" ... Sunset

01-16-2008, 04:21 PM	#1652
sissypoo Senior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 110 Gallery: sissypoo Stats: 240/199/170 WOE: Atkins	Hi Pam, I just wanted to tell you that I spoke with my dr the other day about my thyroid tests. I told him I wanted to have an antibodies test for Hashimoto's. He said there was no reason to do that because my tests were within the normal range and he wouldn't treat me differently even if the antibody test came back positive. He also said that treating with thyroid hormone when test results were within normal range was too risky. He mentioned osteoporosis. So, even though I've been on Armor in the past and felt much better, he refuses to even have me try it again. Of course, this is the dr that told me I didn't need to have my hormones checked since I was menopausal. I asked him about progesterone cream and he chuckled and said I didn't need it. This guy stresses me out! __________________

01-16-2008, 05:05 PM	#1653
tinatina Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WV Posts: 3,563 Gallery: tinatina Stats: 205/202/130 5'3.5" WOE: South Beach Start Date: June 4, 07	Ok, my computer won't let me get onto the website listed on the first page, I'll try that tomorrow at work. I'm currently taking 100 mcg of synthroid a day. I was re-tested on 12/31/07. I think only the TSH was tested and came back 32.29. Had an appointment with my dr today and she is sending me for the following tests: antithyroid antibodies free T3 free T4 TSH Any thoughts, guidance, comments? I'm trying to educate myself more and I know that 03 - 3 is supposed to be normal, but how ABnormal is 32.29? or does it depend on the results of the other tests? I know this is probably covered in the other 58 pages of this thread, but I dont have that much time! __________________ Tina

01-21-2008, 05:16 PM	#1660
watcher513 Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 28 Gallery: watcher513	Thought I'd throw some numbers out there since I've been reading this board for a year or so. A little background: 58 y.o., another bday coming in May, post-meno (at 41 y.o. and it took me 5 yrs. to find out what was going on w/that! Mom was 36 when she went through it.) Known about hypo for the last 5 yrs. or so. More under control in the last 3 but trying to get it better. Dad's hypo also and he'll be 88 in June. Had extensive bloodwork done in 2006 (thought I was a pin cushion for a few months, May-July). Not only hypo that I knew about but also hemolytic anemia w/spherocytosis thrown in. I'm behind a month or so for bloodwork and will be going in in the next week or so. 2005 was on 25 mcg. levothroid, 2006 switched to 50 mcg., 5/07 switched to 100 mcg. So, here goes: I know there's one missing between 6/06 and 5/07 but don't have it front of me for some reason. .....12/9/05..1/23/06..2/13/06..6/1/06..5/7/07..6/14/07...Range TSH...6.2.........4.5.......3.5.......4.3......6.3 .....0.3..<0.2-5.5> FT4...........................1.1................. ..........1.7...<0.8-1.7> FT3............................................... ...........285....<230-420> Finally got both FT4 and FT3 done together but it took some doing. "Discussing" (note sarcasm) with doc about continuing w/FT4 and FT3 tests. Evidently the Endo says they're not necessary sigh. I'm still pushing that and also trying to get Anti TPO done because of Hashi's. I think it's my right to know what's going on. He's the one that said "don't stop reading", when I told him I've been researching on the net. So I'm going to remind him about that and the fact that he was really happy I was being proactive about my health. Thoughts on the FT4 and FT3 numbers? There are still days I fall asleep on the couch anywhere from 5-5:30 pm. Between the hypo and anemia it's been interesting to say the least. Forgot to add: Quit smoking 5/1/03, Yeah! Was really good with walking for the last year until around November because my foot hurt for some reason then crummy weather (weird). So have gained some weight back that I'd lost in the year before (lost 20 lbs. or so, since the holidays about 10 back, ugh). I've been bad. Gotta get back to it. Terry Last edited by watcher513 : 01-21-2008 at 05:36 PM.

01-21-2008, 05:44 PM	#1661
watcher513 Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 28 Gallery: watcher513	One/two more "forgots" to add in: Included in the extensive bloodwork was Iron and Ferritin and all related. Was referred to a hemotologist in May 06 for the many tests for the anemia. Iron's fine. I'm in every 4 weeks for a B12 shot. I think my biggest complaints are always being cold (forever), especially in the wintertime (dress in layers) and dry skin. Last edited by watcher513 : 01-21-2008 at 05:52 PM.

01-17-2008, 09:00 AM	#1657
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 93 Gallery: DebM	Sissypoo and Pam, Your doctor sounds exactly like mine....do you live in Ohio??? I went last Tuesday and he told me basically the same thing....that my bloodwork was "perfect" - tsh perfect. I used all the info that Pam gave me and he tried to tell me if I wasn't feeling good then it must be something else, anemia, cancer, blah, blah, blah. He did say "o yeah I think you probably do have hashi but same thing, you don't treat that". I tried to tell him that that's why you run a free T3 and T4 ..... I could tell he didn't like me telling him what he wasn't doing..... I left there very ticked off but did schedule a thyroid ultrasound to check for nodules, etc. for next week. Will be interesting to see what it might or might not show but I figured I'd proceed with it because when I switch doctors, I'll have already taken care of that. I've checked with 2 other endocronologists in my medical plan and they do treat for hashis - surprisingly enough, they are both women doctors!!! Now do they treat with armour or the other drugs not sure but I'll deal with that I kept basically saying, let's rule out the hashis and run the antiobodies tests and the free 3 and 4 and it was tsh -- blah, blah, blah. I wasn't brave enough to say he was just stupid that that didn't tell the picture for the thyroid....and he needed to reeducate himself..... But, Pam you sure are correct in how they react when you don't just take their word for everything and question them.....

01-18-2008, 06:11 AM	#1658
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	I'll be more than happy to see your results Tina (with the lab ranges used by that particular lab please...always ask for the lab COPY, not over the phone). DEBM....there is a new practice opening in OH...who does Armour and BHRT...give me a couple of days to get the info please....but my good friend in OH just let me know!!! (See?? I'm excited!!). Pam

01-22-2008, 06:54 AM	#1662
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Well of COURSE you don't feel well. Looks like you have pernicious anemia (hence the B12 shots...and why NOT look at the iron??? "normal' is isn't 'anywhere in it's range' normal for iron is around 75 or HIGHER in a female. You are ONLY taking T4. You are not converting any of it to T3 (see your FT3??? should be middle of that range or higher). Are you taking BHRT?? Any progesterone, estradiol?? You really need T3 added to that T4 (ask the doc for Cytomel...maybe 10mg...taken half in am, half in pm??? Jeez...). Yeah, you 'don't need' FT's as long as you stay with that doc...cuz he's never gonna look at them and determine how low your FT3 really is. I'd be 'halfway' treated with that dose too. Of course you ARE in CA...where it's excessively difficult to get any T3, sigh and most the docs worship at the altar of TSH only. It's disgusting. I'd try and get T3 (synthetic is called Cytomel) It would mean all the difference in the world. If you get the T3, you will have to lower your T4 synthetic (Your FT4 is as high as what a man usually likes, women generally like to be about midway of range with FT4 and over midway with FT3). IMHO, I'd want to go down to 75mcg. T4 and add 10mg. Cytomel split. Pam Pam

01-22-2008, 03:08 PM	#1663
watcher513 Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 28 Gallery: watcher513	I know the T4 is at the top of the range, or was last year. Definitely going to bug him about the T3 med being added. I'm on the same dosage as my dad re your comment about men's level. Forgot to add that the hematologist has me on 1000 mcg. folic acid (because hemolytic anemia and spherocytosis). No one's said anything about pernicious anemia. Found some more test results for iron and ferritin from 2/06 (old, I know) that was part of the process of trying to figure out things. At that time we were experimenting different things (that's why they call it a Practice I'm sure). I was on iron pills for 2 months, then B12 pills for a different 2 months. Then the B12 shots started in 5/06. Total Iron binding capacity...........323...<228-428 ug/dL> Iron...........................................92. ..<35-160 ug/dL> Total Iron binding capacity,unsat...231...<92-365 ug/dL> Transferrin..................................28... <15-55%> Ferretin....................................165... .<22-291 ng/mL> As I recall these results were after being on the iron pills for about 2 months. Not on anything else except hydrochlorothiazide.

01-23-2008, 06:32 AM	#1664
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Your iron is great in that test and your ferritin is a bit too high...indicating pernicious anemia. This type of anemia is very suspect in someone with hypothyroidism (particularly those with Hashimoto's). Yep, the ol' cookie cutter thyroid treatment. Just give ONLY T4 and about the same dose to everyone. We're just all alike to some physicians. Try the docfinder at Armour Thyroid Official Site but I'm suspecting because of the area in which you live, it may be difficult to find an Armour doc (or costly...most go out of pocket not insurance). Pam

01-23-2008, 11:04 AM	#1665
tinatina Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WV Posts: 3,563 Gallery: tinatina Stats: 205/202/130 5'3.5" WOE: South Beach Start Date: June 4, 07	as promised I'm back with my results. I haven't heard from the drs office yet. T3, free 2.6 [2.3-4.2] PG/ML T4, free 1.37 NG/DL . . . . .reference ranges . . . . . . .hypothyroid <0.89 . . . . . . .euthyroid 0.89 - 1.80 . . . . . . .hyperthryroid >1.80 TSH, 3rd generation 2.950 [0.35-5.50] MIU/ML Thyroid Auto AB Thyroid Peroxidase AB 484.0 Normal: less than 35 Unit: IU/ML Thyroglobulin AB >3000.0 Normal: <20.0 Unit: IU/ML What do you think?

01-24-2008, 06:56 AM	#1666
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Tina it looks like you have Hashimoto's. And the ranges given for the FT4 are 'amazing' (not correct in most cases, but 'amazing' that the lab tries to 'second guess' the test). You FT3 is so very low, just barely in the range...I like mine kept (with replacement T3) about midway or 3/4 of it's range to feel 'normal. Also, the TSH 'range' is very outdated...it's usually nowadays given as: .30-3.0 with anything near the 3.0 considered subclinical hypothyroid...but a doc shouldn't go by the pituitary test (TSH) anyway, they should go by the FT's, and TPO. Pam

01-24-2008, 11:23 AM	#1667
sjl330 Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Middle America Posts: 5,935 Gallery: sjl330 Stats: 184/145/140 5'7" WOE: Watching it, whatever "it" is, lol. Start Date: January 2003	Hi Pam, I hope you remember me. You helped me a long time ago and here I am again to get your opinion. I so appreciate all your help to me and to everybody here. You're a real blessing. My test results: TSH <0.004 L ...............0.350-5.500 Thyroxine (T4) 6.9 ug/dL...............4.5-12 T3 Uptake 35 %.................24-39 Free Thyroxine Index 2.4..................1.2-4.9 Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (Direct) 1.36 ng/dL.......0.61-1.76 How does everything look to you? I hope I gave you the right numbers. Thanks again, __________________ *Sandy* "I'd rather be on the beach!! Aug. 1st weight: 147 August 8th weight: 146

01-25-2008, 07:26 AM	#1668
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	[quote=sjl330;9843570]Hi Pam, I hope you remember me. You helped me a long time ago and here I am again to get your opinion. I so appreciate all your help to me and to everybody here. You're a real blessing. My test results: TSH <0.004 L ...............0.350-5.500 Thyroxine (T4) 6.9 ug/dL...............4.5-12 T3 Uptake 35 %.................24-39 Free Thyroxine Index 2.4..................1.2-4.9 Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (Direct) 1.36 ng/dL.......0.61-1.76 How does everything look to you? I hope I gave you the right numbers. They didn't do a T3 OR Free T3. A T3 Uptake doesn't measure T3 hormone, it measues binding T4 (most docs don't 'know' this...and I wish they'd figure it out). So, we're going to have to go by how you feel. If you feel pretty good most the time, aren't having aches, pains, heart palpitations, or just plain fatigued, blah, down emotionally, etc. then your T3 may be decent. I, on the other hand would HAVE to see my FT3...and go by my symptoms. I, myself, would be a little too 'high' in T4...so I'd want to see if perhaps I am just a little overmedicated..unless my T3 was balanced high to it (I just don't feel as well when my T4 is higher than my T3...I feel good if my TSH is pretty low, but not under .25, my FT4 is only about halfway of range, and my FT3 is 3/4's of the range I wouldn't mess with what you are doing with/without thyroid if you feel great. Pam

01-25-2008, 09:32 AM	#1669
sjl330 Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Middle America Posts: 5,935 Gallery: sjl330 Stats: 184/145/140 5'7" WOE: Watching it, whatever "it" is, lol. Start Date: January 2003	Thanks Pam, I was so careful to be sure to ask for free T4 too! I thought that was the one they always left off. I should've done my homework better before I went and taken notes with me too. I have been a little more tired than usual lately but I think it's b/c my testosterone is low. At least I found out that much, lol. I'm supposed to talk to the Dr. about that Tues. so we'll see what they'll do about that. Maybe up it in my bio cocktail I take every day. And hopefully I'll be back to normal after that. If not, I'll go back and be sure to ask for the "free T3" this time. Why oh why do we have to be our own doctors!! Lol. Thanks again,

02-08-2008, 11:27 PM	#1675

01-26-2008, 05:07 AM	#1670
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Well, if your T3 is low and your T4 too high, it 'races' the adrenals and brings the testosterone down (make sure they did a FREE testosterone TOO, cuz just total isn't helpful in assessing a female testosterone level). Pam

01-26-2008, 07:20 AM	#1671
sjl330 Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Middle America Posts: 5,935 Gallery: sjl330 Stats: 184/145/140 5'7" WOE: Watching it, whatever "it" is, lol. Start Date: January 2003	Yes, they did. It's the free that's real low. So I don't know what they'll do but I'll see what they say.

01-27-2008, 05:43 AM	#1672
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 11,665 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	But free test. IS really low in females anyway, IF they used the 'standard, male' range. I've seen that done a lot, that's why I'm interested in the test result AND the range...my doc uses a 'specific, FEMALE ONLY range'...I'm really 'wondering' lately about all the testosterone being Rx'd for women...while the same docs rx'ing aren't testing well and treating for adrenals/thyroid. The only thing having testosterone added to my progesterone and estradiol/estriol mix did for me was make me: kind of 'angry' at times, grow chin hair, and at first I think muscle added a bit easier while lifting weights, etc., but as a whole, it didn't do a whole lot for me. It's all so individual, but you look 'overreplaced' for T4, and you really need that FT3...so, wait till ya get that and go from there (cuz if the FT3 is excessively low in light of your very high FT4 and very low TSH, I'd want to lower the T4 incoming and add T3 in small increments until it was 'balanced'...the imbalance can really throw your other hormone testing off. Pam

02-08-2008, 08:17 AM	#1673
n.texasgirl Junior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: north, Texas Posts: 5 Gallery: n.texasgirl Stats: 204/172/145 WOE: bffm Start Date: February 2008	Pam, can you look at my labs and tell me what you think? I take 180mg of Armour. I am negative for anti's. I have been on Armour for since Jan 2007. FT4- 1.5 (0.8-1.8) FT3 5.13 (2.3-4.2) They didn't bother with the TSH. My ferritin accidently got left off. I should have those results later today. My fibro is raging out of control and I can barely function at this point. I am taking HUGE amounts of ibuprofen just to walk and talk (my muscles cramp badly, to the point I cannot move my jaw). My dr is calling me in an rx for Lyrica. I don't want to take it, I just had a baby and am breastfeeding. Any suggestions? Thanks, Andrea

02-08-2008, 05:49 PM	#1674
laurawd Junior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10 Gallery: laurawd	help with low FT4 I've had my thyroid tested several times in the past 1.5 yrs, both on and off meds, and need some advice. In May 06, not on meds, the readings were TSH 1.06 FT4 .78 (.71-1.41) FT3 2.47 (1.71-3.71) In August 06, no on meds, the readings were TSH 2.2 (.35-2.3) FT4 .76 (.71-1.41) FT3 2.2 (1.71-3.71) I started taking thyroxine in September because of low FT4, and after 6-7 weeks on 50 mcg thyroxine, the labs read TSH 1.27 FT4 .92 (.71-1.41) FT3 2.66 (1.71-3.71) The doc asked me to increase thyroxine dose to get the FT4 up, so I went to 100 mcg thyroxine and added 50 mcg Cytomel. After 7 weeks on that dose, my labs read: TSH .07 (.35-2.23) FT4 .76 (new range: .83-1.38) FT3 1.98 (new range: 2.23-3.83) Note, the Hong Kong lab (I live in Hong Kong) changed the ranges after re-testing the population in HKG. The new lab ranges reflect thyroid levels for people without antibodies. I do not have antibodies and hypopituitary issues do not seem present. (other hormone levels, such as Prolactin and sex hormones are OK, although testosterone is kind of low.) I think it strange that my Ft4 is sooo low pretty much all the time. I am not sure whether I should even be on thyroid meds. I do not feel much different on them, although I was not quite as irritable on 50 mcg thyroxine. If anyone has advice, I'd greatly appreciate it. By the way, my ferritin is 36 . I'm working on raising it.